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Author Topic: Dominion: Menagerie  (Read 22896 times)

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Donald X.

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Dominion: Menagerie
« on: January 07, 2020, 05:16:13 am »
+35

The new expansion, Dominion: Menagerie, has been officially announced. Hey isn't that the name of a card?

Official page: http://riograndegames.com/Game/1350-Dominion-Menagerie

Functionality blurb: "This is the 13th expansion to Dominion. It has 400 cards, with 30 new Kingdom cards. There are Horses that save a draw for later, Exile mats that cards can be sent to and rescued from, and Ways that give Actions another option. Events return."

Edit: Also we currently expect it March 18.
« Last Edit: January 07, 2020, 05:40:55 am by Donald X. »
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Re: Dominion: Menagerie
« Reply #1 on: January 07, 2020, 05:27:27 am »
+3

So we have +$ as a token, +Action as a token, and now, +Card as a token (I assume that's how Horses will work). Now we just need +Buy as a token to complete the vanilla set.

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Re: Dominion: Menagerie
« Reply #2 on: January 07, 2020, 05:41:47 am »
+4

So we have +$ as a token, +Action as a token, and now, +Card as a token (I assume that's how Horses will work). Now we just need +Buy as a token to complete the vanilla set.


And +VP as a token

oh... wait...
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Re: Dominion: Menagerie
« Reply #3 on: January 07, 2020, 05:58:15 am »
+1


Is there gonna be a squirrel card?
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Donald X.

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Re: Dominion: Menagerie
« Reply #4 on: January 07, 2020, 06:22:19 am »
+2

That image has the wrong color for the box. I reported that to Jay already.
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Re: Dominion: Menagerie
« Reply #5 on: January 07, 2020, 09:55:14 am »
+3

At my old school a bunch of Dominion noobs wanted to make a set called "Dominion: Zoo." Little did they know that 4 years later...
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Re: Dominion: Menagerie
« Reply #6 on: January 07, 2020, 10:05:24 am »
+1

So we have +$ as a token, +Action as a token, and now, +Card as a token (I assume that's how Horses will work). Now we just need +Buy as a token to complete the vanilla set.

unless Horse is a kingdom card that goes to the tavern mat and can be called at the beginning of a turn for +draw

edit: i guess it could also be a non-supply card. that'd make sense, with other stuff awarding horses.
« Last Edit: January 07, 2020, 10:14:59 am by spineflu »
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Eran of Arcadia

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Re: Dominion: Menagerie
« Reply #7 on: January 07, 2020, 10:58:28 am »
+3

We already have the dog, goat and two rats mentioned by the flavor text, now I really just want a turtle.
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Re: Dominion: Menagerie
« Reply #8 on: January 07, 2020, 11:37:55 am »
+1

The Exile mat sounds interesting.  I'm guessing it's kinda like the Tavern mat from Adventures, except apparently not restricted to a certain type of card.  Presumably there's an Action card that says something like "Choose one: Send a card from your hand to the Exile mat or put a card from the Exile mat into your hand"?  So, sort of like Island except not permanent?  And I *really* want to know what this "Ways" thing is.  Can't wait to see the previews for the set!
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Re: Dominion: Menagerie
« Reply #9 on: January 07, 2020, 11:43:21 am »
+2

Exile mat sounds exciting. My guess is it's a way to get Saboteur-like cards to work. You can "trash" your opponents cards by sending them to the Exile, but the player always has the ability to get them back by doing certain things. Could be very fun. Also maybe make one-shot type cards more interesting? Since you can get them back after "trashing" a.k.a exiling them.
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Re: Dominion: Menagerie
« Reply #10 on: January 07, 2020, 12:12:32 pm »
0

Exile mat sounds exciting. My guess is it's a way to get Saboteur-like cards to work. You can "trash" your opponents cards by sending them to the Exile, but the player always has the ability to get them back by doing certain things. Could be very fun. Also maybe make one-shot type cards more interesting? Since you can get them back after "trashing" a.k.a exiling them.

Seems like it would be kind of a weak attack if that's how it works, since it would only temporarily take a card out of your deck
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Re: Dominion: Menagerie
« Reply #11 on: January 07, 2020, 12:15:13 pm »
+19

Updated box-art scans leaking on BGG:
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Re: Dominion: Menagerie
« Reply #12 on: January 07, 2020, 12:27:23 pm »
+1

"you’re like an elephant: you remember everything. And you’re afraid of mice" I wonder if this is means there's some kind of interaction between two cards called Elephant and Mouse (or Mice)?  Maybe they're a split pile?
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Re: Dominion: Menagerie
« Reply #13 on: January 07, 2020, 01:13:38 pm »
+3

This sounds fantastic. I cannot wait. Early March will now be reserved for not just March Madness, but also for Dominion: Menagerie previews. Thank you so much, Donald and Jay, for continuing to feed our hunger for more Dominion.
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Re: Dominion: Menagerie
« Reply #14 on: January 07, 2020, 01:14:49 pm »
+23

+Card as a token (I assume that's how Horses will work).

Don't you think you're putting the card before the horse?




 :D
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Re: Dominion: Menagerie
« Reply #15 on: January 07, 2020, 01:21:10 pm »
+3

I hope there is a platypus card.

In all seriousness though, I'm so pumped for more Dominion content.  There are already more expansions than I originally anticipated, so each new one is just gravy.  I love it.
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Re: Dominion: Menagerie
« Reply #16 on: January 07, 2020, 01:55:52 pm »
+1

The Exile mat sounds like it is used for a softer version of a trashing Attack.
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Re: Dominion: Menagerie
« Reply #17 on: January 07, 2020, 02:00:53 pm »
+2

When can we expect previews? Sometime in February?
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Donald X.

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Re: Dominion: Menagerie
« Reply #18 on: January 07, 2020, 03:09:18 pm »
+9

When can we expect previews? Sometime in February?
Probably the last week of February or first week of March.
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Re: Dominion: Menagerie
« Reply #19 on: January 07, 2020, 03:14:12 pm »
+2

"you’re like an elephant: you remember everything. And you’re afraid of mice" I wonder if this is means there's some kind of interaction between two cards called Elephant and Mouse (or Mice)?  Maybe they're a split pile?
Elephants being afraid of mice is a standard cliche. This is probably just a funny.

I believe the blacksmith who turns into a werewolf is the only time we've ever gotten an actual hint of card mechanics from the flavor text. Someone will correct me if I'm wrong.
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Re: Dominion: Menagerie
« Reply #20 on: January 07, 2020, 03:16:14 pm »
+1

"you’re like an elephant: you remember everything. And you’re afraid of mice" I wonder if this is means there's some kind of interaction between two cards called Elephant and Mouse (or Mice)?  Maybe they're a split pile?
Elephants being afraid of mice is a standard cliche. This is probably just a funny.

I believe the blacksmith who turns into a werewolf is the only time we've ever gotten an actual hint of card mechanics from the flavor text. Someone will correct me if I'm wrong.

clearly you've never had Rats irl.
They ate all my treasures, and all my estates.

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Re: Dominion: Menagerie
« Reply #21 on: January 07, 2020, 03:36:43 pm »
+1

The Dark Ages *flavor text* doesn't even mention rats. It talks a lot about begging, in a way that says nothing about the gameplay of Beggar.
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Re: Dominion: Menagerie
« Reply #22 on: January 07, 2020, 03:50:15 pm »
0

ah, expansion flavor text. gotcha. misread your comment.

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Re: Dominion: Menagerie
« Reply #23 on: January 07, 2020, 04:31:59 pm »
0

Will there be a pre-order option on the website closer to the release date?
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Donald X.

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Re: Dominion: Menagerie
« Reply #24 on: January 07, 2020, 04:42:59 pm »
+1

Will there be a pre-order option on the website closer to the release date?
Has there ever been? RGG sells to distributors, not players.
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Re: Dominion: Menagerie
« Reply #25 on: January 07, 2020, 04:56:24 pm »
0

Will there be a pre-order option on the website closer to the release date?
Has there ever been? RGG sells to distributors, not players.
Oh, I didn't realize that.  The expansions I have I bought either on Amazon or in store, but I'd just assumed that you could also buy directly from RGG.  Never mind then
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Re: Dominion: Menagerie
« Reply #26 on: January 07, 2020, 05:28:26 pm »
+5

Maybe Ways are another landscape kingdom thing like events, landmarks, and projects? And I can foresee the exile mat confusing converted Magic players.

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Re: Dominion: Menagerie
« Reply #27 on: January 07, 2020, 06:46:20 pm »
+10

Maybe Ways are another landscape kingdom thing like events, landmarks, and projects?
Maybe! Perhaps they are things you can spend an Action to do, in the way that Events are things you can spend a Buy to do.
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mxdata

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Re: Dominion: Menagerie
« Reply #28 on: January 07, 2020, 07:10:40 pm »
+3

Maybe Ways are another landscape kingdom thing like events, landmarks, and projects?
Maybe! Perhaps they are things you can spend an Action to do, in the way that Events are things you can spend a Buy to do.

Oh!  That would make sense, since the description says "Ways that give Actions another option".  I was thinking that meant it did something to Action cards, but that actually makes a lot more sense.  Perhaps it's something like "Use 1 action + $X to ______" or "Use 1 action and discard X cards to ______".  It seems like there'd have to be something more than just an action, since if it's just an Action, then that would be equivalent to an Action card that's automatically in every single hand.  It would have to be either very weak (like "use 1 Action to get $1") or would end up warping the game if it's strong, and neither option sounds especially fun
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Minotaur

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Re: Dominion: Menagerie
« Reply #29 on: January 07, 2020, 07:33:24 pm »
+4

ok but it's not inception until there's a card called Alchemy
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Re: Dominion: Menagerie
« Reply #30 on: January 07, 2020, 07:34:43 pm »
+1

Gngh! One month too late!

New sets seem to take weeks to reach the UK, and I'm going to be in the USA in February. So close to being able to pick up a set while out there. *sniff*
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Minotaur

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Re: Dominion: Menagerie
« Reply #31 on: January 07, 2020, 07:47:42 pm »
+10

You should plan a small expansion called Chancellor and then cancel it.  And then release a larger one called Messenger.

You know what, forget it.  Never listen to a minotaur.
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Re: Dominion: Menagerie
« Reply #32 on: January 08, 2020, 12:57:34 am »
+11

I argued for the set to be called Bestiary, but apparently that was too close to Bestiality for some peoples' tastes
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Re: Dominion: Menagerie
« Reply #33 on: January 08, 2020, 09:59:38 am »
+3

I argued for the set to be called Bestiary, but apparently that was too close to Bestiality for some peoples' tastes

I personally think they made the right call on that one.
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Re: Dominion: Menagerie
« Reply #34 on: January 08, 2020, 01:04:38 pm »
0

With 400 cards and only 30 kingdom cards, I wonder how the other 70 cards are accounted for.  70 events seems implausible, so maybe Horses are cards, or maybe Ways are implemented in a way that requires a lot of cards.
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Re: Dominion: Menagerie
« Reply #35 on: January 08, 2020, 01:09:05 pm »
+5

With 400 cards and only 30 kingdom cards, I wonder how the other 70 cards are accounted for.  70 events seems implausible, so maybe Horses are cards, or maybe Ways are implemented in a way that requires a lot of cards.

Well, it's animal themed, so there could be some sort of "super-rat" pile that has 80 copies.
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Re: Dominion: Menagerie
« Reply #36 on: January 08, 2020, 01:35:36 pm »
+6

scolapasta

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Re: Dominion: Menagerie
« Reply #37 on: January 08, 2020, 01:44:05 pm »
+1

With 400 cards and only 30 kingdom cards, I wonder how the other 70 cards are accounted for.  70 events seems implausible, so maybe Horses are cards, or maybe Ways are implemented in a way that requires a lot of cards.

Well, it's animal themed, so there could be some sort of "super-rat" pile that has 80 copies.

I'm assuming that Ways are Landscape cards (like discussed above, the equivalent of Events for Actions).

When Events, Landmarks, and Projects first came up out there were 20, 21, 20 of those, so 20 seems a safe assumption. Add 10 events (Empires added 13, so <20 seems to make sense), that's 30 of the 70.

The remaining for 40 would then be, like GendoIkari, said, some super sized piles, or also other non supply piles related to the 30 Kingdom cards. (or if one extra pile is only 8, 12 cards for a Victory card pile).

As you can see, I'm assuming that Horses are just the name for card tokens, like Villagers for action tokens, and Coffers for coin tokens.

The question I'm interested in is, assuming that's true, when can you use the Horses? Villagers are only during Action phase, and Coffers only during Buy phase. Will Horses be limited to just one phase? or anytime?

Limiting to Action phase doesn't stop you from using them right *before* your Buy phase to draw extra Treasure. I guess they could be only during cleanup (drawing for your next hand), but that seems way too limiting.
« Last Edit: January 08, 2020, 03:23:15 pm by scolapasta »
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Re: Dominion: Menagerie
« Reply #38 on: January 08, 2020, 05:19:25 pm »
+12

Oh man, I really hope Horses are implemented in a way that cards say +1 Horse.

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Re: Dominion: Menagerie
« Reply #39 on: January 08, 2020, 05:28:54 pm »
+3

I've long thought that the Menagerie card ought to have been called Zoo, just to cover another letter of the alphabet when it comes to card names.

Maybe it could be renamed now this expansion exists. (-8
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Re: Dominion: Menagerie
« Reply #40 on: January 08, 2020, 05:29:17 pm »
+29

If you're building a megaturn deck, you should hold your horses.
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Re: Dominion: Menagerie
« Reply #41 on: January 08, 2020, 05:39:16 pm »
+2

Given that the description says "Horses that save a draw for later", I wonder if the way they'll work is that you actually draw one less card when you receive the Horse.  So, when you initially receive the Horse token it's like the -card token in Adventures, but then later when you use them, you get +1 card per token used (maybe you use them anytime you'd draw to get +1 card?  So, you couldn't simply use it before your buy phase to get another treasure, but you could use it before playing, say, a village to instead get +2 cards +2 actions, or at clean-up to get 6 cards in your next hand).  So you're saving the draw you would've gotten for later
« Last Edit: January 08, 2020, 05:41:28 pm by mxdata »
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Re: Dominion: Menagerie
« Reply #42 on: January 08, 2020, 05:43:01 pm »
0

Oh man, I really hope Horses are implemented in a way that cards say +1 Horse.

I was hoping for +1 Lab Rat, but I'll take it.
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Re: Dominion: Menagerie
« Reply #43 on: January 08, 2020, 06:14:08 pm »
+10

"super-rat"

Capybaras?
R.O.U.S.es

I argued for the set to be called Bestiary, but apparently that was too close to Bestiality for some peoples' tastes

I personally think they made the right call on that one.

Really?  If you see the word "Bestiary" and think of "Bestiality", you've got a pretty sick mind.

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Re: Dominion: Menagerie
« Reply #44 on: January 08, 2020, 06:20:24 pm »
+2

Here's hoping that every animal card has the Rats/Magpie mechanic, I want a kingdom of ten cards that gain copies of themselves...
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Re: Dominion: Menagerie
« Reply #45 on: January 08, 2020, 06:31:42 pm »
+12

Here's hoping that every animal card has the Rats/Magpie mechanic, I want a kingdom of ten cards that gain copies of themselves...
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Re: Dominion: Menagerie
« Reply #46 on: January 08, 2020, 09:15:19 pm »
0

Given that the description says "Horses that save a draw for later", I wonder if the way they'll work is that you actually draw one less card when you receive the Horse.  So, when you initially receive the Horse token it's like the -card token in Adventures, but then later when you use them, you get +1 card per token used (maybe you use them anytime you'd draw to get +1 card?  So, you couldn't simply use it before your buy phase to get another treasure, but you could use it before playing, say, a village to instead get +2 cards +2 actions, or at clean-up to get 6 cards in your next hand).  So you're saving the draw you would've gotten for later

This is what I thought based on "save a draw," too. However, I wouldn't think you'd have to use a Horse token only when you are drawing cards but rather just any time in your action phase (like how you spend a villager).
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Kevin K

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Re: Dominion: Menagerie
« Reply #47 on: January 08, 2020, 09:45:08 pm »
+15

Can't wait to play the powerful - Duck, Duck, Goose combo.
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Re: Dominion: Menagerie
« Reply #48 on: January 08, 2020, 09:48:49 pm »
+2

Given that the description says "Horses that save a draw for later", I wonder if the way they'll work is that you actually draw one less card when you receive the Horse.  So, when you initially receive the Horse token it's like the -card token in Adventures, but then later when you use them, you get +1 card per token used (maybe you use them anytime you'd draw to get +1 card?  So, you couldn't simply use it before your buy phase to get another treasure, but you could use it before playing, say, a village to instead get +2 cards +2 actions, or at clean-up to get 6 cards in your next hand).  So you're saving the draw you would've gotten for later

This is what I thought based on "save a draw," too. However, I wouldn't think you'd have to use a Horse token only when you are drawing cards but rather just any time in your action phase (like how you spend a villager).

Based on this being more complicated, I think Horses are just going to be +1 Card (possibly costing an action to use), and cards that give Horses will not give +Cards. This is how all the Coffers cards have worked in the past - they didn't give you +$1 but they gave you the option to use +$1.

I'm guessing Horses may have an added cost because non-terminal card draw has proven to be really good, and deferring your card draw until you have spare actions sounds strong and hard to balance.

The part I find funny is that back in 2012, I made a My Little Pony fan expansion whose central mechanic was "cards that let each opponent draw an extra card", and 7.5 years later Dominion canonically has Horses that let you draw cards.
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Re: Dominion: Menagerie
« Reply #49 on: January 08, 2020, 11:14:04 pm »
0

Maybe Ways are another landscape kingdom thing like events, landmarks, and projects? And I can foresee the exile mat confusing converted Magic players.

I predict Ways will be like Teacher.  Teach actions to do additional things.  But instead of having to earn the Teacher, you buy the right to immediately add the Way to a Kingdom card that you choose.  Kind of like a Landmark and Project combined.

It would be a sideways card

For example, you spend $7 to add your "+1 Traveler" token to the Smithy pile.

Maybe you spend $9 to add a +1Horse to a pile.

Maybe you spend $6 to add a +1 Coffee to a pile.

And you have all the other Teacher tokens from Adventures, too.
« Last Edit: January 09, 2020, 01:23:05 pm by Saul Goodman »
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Re: Dominion: Menagerie
« Reply #50 on: January 08, 2020, 11:16:32 pm »
+1

Here's hoping that every animal card has the Rats/Magpie mechanic, I want a kingdom of ten cards that gain copies of themselves...
Rabbit: "When you play this card, if it is the second Rabbit played this turn, gain the rest of the Rabbit pile"

I cackled.
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Re: Dominion: Menagerie
« Reply #51 on: January 09, 2020, 01:09:04 am »
0

Given that the description says "Horses that save a draw for later", I wonder if the way they'll work is that you actually draw one less card when you receive the Horse.  So, when you initially receive the Horse token it's like the -card token in Adventures, but then later when you use them, you get +1 card per token used (maybe you use them anytime you'd draw to get +1 card?  So, you couldn't simply use it before your buy phase to get another treasure, but you could use it before playing, say, a village to instead get +2 cards +2 actions, or at clean-up to get 6 cards in your next hand).  So you're saving the draw you would've gotten for later

This is what I thought based on "save a draw," too. However, I wouldn't think you'd have to use a Horse token only when you are drawing cards but rather just any time in your action phase (like how you spend a villager).
Based on this being more complicated, I think Horses are just going to be +1 Card (possibly costing an action to use)
I am extremely sure that this is not going to be the case. That would make a Horse similar to a one-shot Moat.

Quote
I'm guessing Horses may have an added cost because non-terminal card draw has proven to be really good, and deferring your card draw until you have spare actions sounds strong and hard to balance.
Why non-terminal? If a card says +2 Horses, it is terminal. Sure, you can use the bonus at any time but that doesn't magically make it non-terminal. Just because Haunted Woods is a triple Lab next turn doesn't mean that it is non-terminal, it is dead when you play it.
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Re: Dominion: Menagerie
« Reply #52 on: January 09, 2020, 02:12:09 am »
0

It's card draw where you choose how much of it you want to use. Stockpiling extra draw you don't need, only drawing up to the end of your shuffle, etc. all sounds really strong. Non-terminal isn't the most precise word for it, but I would guess that in practice you usually use Horses when you have a free action available, or you're confident you won't draw an action dead.

Horses probably don't have an additional cost, but I do expect that cards with Horses will look overcosted until you play with them.
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Minotaur

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Re: Dominion: Menagerie
« Reply #53 on: January 09, 2020, 02:17:47 am »
+3

Chief Subordinate Horse Officer, 1st Class
Action-Duration
Cost: <12>

At the start of each turn for the rest of the game: +1 Horse.
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Re: Dominion: Menagerie
« Reply #54 on: January 09, 2020, 02:18:31 am »
+2

...or Mr. Ed for short
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Re: Dominion: Menagerie
« Reply #55 on: January 09, 2020, 08:53:19 pm »
+5

The game comes to a stand still when you play Possum.
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Re: Dominion: Menagerie
« Reply #56 on: January 10, 2020, 12:47:31 am »
0

Stockpiling extra draw you don't need, only drawing up to the end of your shuffle, etc. all sounds really strong.
I agree and like to add that this it also facilitates megaturns.
On the other hand, relative to Villagers, the hypothetical +1 Buy token and Coffers, Horses are likely fairly weak. Normally you want to draw as much as possible, e.g. while you are still building to cycle.
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Re: Dominion: Menagerie
« Reply #57 on: January 10, 2020, 11:13:38 am »
+1

The game comes to a stand still when you play Possum.

Possum
Action/Reaction/Duration
Cost 3 Coin

+2 Cards
Gain a Possum
This card stays in play until your next turn .  While in play, you are unaffected by attacks.
____________
When another player plays an attack card, you may reveal this and send it to your exile mat.  If you do, you may send that players' attack card to their exile mat and that player gains The Skewer. 

When this is Trashed by another player, +1 coffer.

Set-up: This card may only be used in Kingdoms with three or more Attack Cards.

The Skewer (Artifact)

Once at the beginning of your turn while you have this, you may trash another player's Possum from play or from their Exile Mat.  If you do, +1 Action and return an attack card from your Exile Mat to your hand.
« Last Edit: January 10, 2020, 11:24:34 am by Saul Goodman »
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Re: Dominion: Menagerie
« Reply #58 on: January 10, 2020, 07:17:39 pm »
+1

I argued for the set to be called Bestiary, but apparently that was too close to Bestiality for some peoples' tastes

I personally think they made the right call on that one.

Really?  If you see the word "Bestiary" and think of "Bestiality", you've got a pretty sick mind.

If your player base might complain about Witch being too occult why take chances. It's more about misreading it from far. Of course, I wouldn't expect any kids to make such a connection.
« Last Edit: January 10, 2020, 07:19:05 pm by markusin »
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Re: Dominion: Menagerie
« Reply #59 on: January 10, 2020, 07:23:53 pm »
+2

On the other hand, relative to Villagers, the hypothetical +1 Buy token and Coffers, Horses are likely fairly weak. Normally you want to draw as much as possible, e.g. while you are still building to cycle.
It feels to me that a draw you can save for later is likely to be better than a coin you can save for later. If it isn't, the average card in your deck is less good than a Copper, and you're Doing It Wrong. (-8

And I bet people would be delighted to pay $4 for a Horsey Village that was +1 Horse, +2 Actions. For all I know that might even turn out to be underpriced.
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Re: Dominion: Menagerie
« Reply #60 on: January 10, 2020, 07:55:39 pm »
+1

On the other hand, relative to Villagers, the hypothetical +1 Buy token and Coffers, Horses are likely fairly weak. Normally you want to draw as much as possible, e.g. while you are still building to cycle.
It feels to me that a draw you can save for later is likely to be better than a coin you can save for later. If it isn't, the average card in your deck is less good than a Copper, and you're Doing It Wrong. (-8

And I bet people would be delighted to pay $4 for a Horsey Village that was +1 Horse, +2 Actions. For all I know that might even turn out to be underpriced.

Yeah, if I already have $8 in hand, I would be delighted to have the chance to save the draws for another hand where I might only have $7.  So a horse village or horse lab would be really handy

Maybe a Horse Race that's similar to Chariot Race from Empire, except instead of gaining a victory token you gain a Horse token?
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Re: Dominion: Menagerie
« Reply #61 on: January 10, 2020, 09:32:12 pm »
+1

The interesting thing is that with coffers, you have vanilla cards.  You have baker, candlestick maker, and to a lesser extent plaza and villain.  But there aren’t really vanilla villager cards.  No cantrip that gives you villagers, just patron and maybe acting troupe.  I think vanilla villager cards just don’t work as well as cards like lackeys that put a limit on how many you can gain. 

The question is if horses are more like coffers or more like villagers.  I suspect they’re more like coffers, and vanilla horse cards would work just fine.  Consider an action that just says +1 action, +1 Horse.  Seems like a solid card idea to me.
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Re: Dominion: Menagerie
« Reply #62 on: January 10, 2020, 10:05:22 pm »
+1

The interesting thing is that with coffers, you have vanilla cards.  You have baker, candlestick maker, and to a lesser extent plaza and villain.  But there aren’t really vanilla villager cards.  No cantrip that gives you villagers, just patron and maybe acting troupe.  I think vanilla villager cards just don’t work as well as cards like lackeys that put a limit on how many you can gain. 

The question is if horses are more like coffers or more like villagers.  I suspect they’re more like coffers, and vanilla horse cards would work just fine.  Consider an action that just says +1 action, +1 Horse.  Seems like a solid card idea to me.

It's more of a battle between simple things, and exciting things. The lack of vanilla villagers is mostly because of how unexciting and low-hanging fruit they are compared to e.g. Recruiter.

Quote from: Renaissance outtakes
There was a village that was, cantrip, +1 Villager; man it's fine, you can argue about, does it need to cost $5, but it's nice. The village that's always there when you need it. But really, the experience it gives is the villager experience, and other cards are giving us that experience. Another village just came with +2 Villagers; we already have that experience too.
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Re: Dominion: Menagerie
« Reply #63 on: January 11, 2020, 02:05:11 am »
0

If Horses are indeed tokens, I wonder if there'll be any cards with a "When you gain this, +1 Horse" on it, or maybe even a "when you trash this"

Maybe something like a Horse version of Plaza, "You may discard a card for +1 Horse"?

A kind of "delayed Apprentice"?  "Trash a card from your hand, +1 Horse per coin it costs"?
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Re: Dominion: Menagerie
« Reply #64 on: January 11, 2020, 03:54:12 am »
+7

It's more of a battle between simple things, and exciting things. The lack of vanilla villagers is mostly because of how unexciting and low-hanging fruit they are compared to e.g. Recruiter.

Quote from: Renaissance outtakes
There was a village that was, cantrip, +1 Villager; man it's fine, you can argue about, does it need to cost $5, but it's nice. The village that's always there when you need it. But really, the experience it gives is the villager experience, and other cards are giving us that experience. Another village just came with +2 Villagers; we already have that experience too.
I'm not against low-hanging fruit, and love to do vanilla stuff when I can. Acting Troupe and Lackeys are both exceptionally simple +villagers cards; sure they're not pure +'s but man, that's not the only way to be super simple.

Cantrip villager was the first villager card in the file. Soon there were a bunch though. It didn't provide an experience we weren't getting other ways, and eventually it was crowded out. It was fine, but every card is trying to add something, and what it added was just "villagers." That isn't always how it goes. Inventor is just a Bridge-Workshop, but the experience seemed different enough and there it is in the set.

Another thing is, if you have a sleek pretty vanilla card, wait this could be a good place to slap that when-gain or whatever you wanted to fit in the set somehow. Patron could have just been the top, but I had this ability to do and that was a good place to do it. So this also cuts into vanilla cards. And hey Baker has one of those, it's not vanilla at all, certainly not more vanilla than Lackeys and Acting Troupe.
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Re: Dominion: Menagerie
« Reply #65 on: January 11, 2020, 07:04:51 am »
+2

On the other hand, relative to Villagers, the hypothetical +1 Buy token and Coffers, Horses are likely fairly weak. Normally you want to draw as much as possible, e.g. while you are still building to cycle.
It feels to me that a draw you can save for later is likely to be better than a coin you can save for later. If it isn't, the average card in your deck is less good than a Copper, and you're Doing It Wrong. (-8

And I bet people would be delighted to pay $4 for a Horsey Village that was +1 Horse, +2 Actions. For all I know that might even turn out to be underpriced.
Sure, Lab is better than Peddler, a cantrip that yields a Horse is better than Baker. That's elementary.

My point was that the relative benefit of Horses to Cards is smaller than that of Coffers to Coins which is again smaller than that of Villagers to Actions (which is again likely similar to the relative benefit of Buy tokens to Buys).
Cards are simply the 'least necessary to save' vanilla thingy.
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Re: Dominion: Menagerie
« Reply #66 on: January 11, 2020, 03:46:40 pm »
+2

Knowing the next card of your deck could make horses worth more.  Or rather, make the ones you actually use effectively be worth more.  This is pretty hard to do on command on most boards, though...

Mounted Scouts
Project
Cost: <8>

Any time you could play an Action, you may look at the top X cards of your deck, where X is how many horses you have.
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Re: Dominion: Menagerie
« Reply #67 on: January 13, 2020, 03:23:57 pm »
+2

"Your menagerie got off to a poor start, with just a goat, two rats, and the advisor who suggested starting a menagerie."

I took this to be just a reference to earlier sets, not a clue about this one. After all, there can't be a Rats or Goat card in this one.

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Re: Dominion: Menagerie
« Reply #68 on: January 13, 2020, 03:33:58 pm »
+3

"Your menagerie got off to a poor start, with just a goat, two rats, and the advisor who suggested starting a menagerie."

I took this to be just a reference to earlier sets, not a clue about this one. After all, there can't be a Rats or Goat card in this one.

Or Advisor, for that matter.
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Re: Dominion: Menagerie
« Reply #69 on: January 13, 2020, 03:52:16 pm »
+2

Or Menagerie, for that matter.

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Re: Dominion: Menagerie
« Reply #70 on: January 13, 2020, 04:31:32 pm »
+2

"Your menagerie got off to a poor start, with just a goat, two rats, and the advisor who suggested starting a menagerie."

I took this to be just a reference to earlier sets, not a clue about this one. After all, there can't be a Rats or Goat card in this one.

I mean, if your hand starts with 2 Rats in it, your Menagerie isn't going to activate. Meanwhile your Advisor is going to increase the odds you have duplicate cards, if your opponent is keeping track of what cards they gave you from previous Advisors. Sounds like a poor start to me.
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Re: Dominion: Menagerie
« Reply #71 on: January 14, 2020, 10:18:26 am »
+9

"Your menagerie got off to a poor start, with just a goat, two rats, and the advisor who suggested starting a menagerie."

I took this to be just a reference to earlier sets, not a clue about this one. After all, there can't be a Rats or Goat card in this one.

I mean, if your hand starts with 2 Rats in it, your Menagerie isn't going to activate. Meanwhile your Advisor is going to increase the odds you have duplicate cards, if your opponent is keeping track of what cards they gave you from previous Advisors. Sounds like a poor start to me.
Have one of the rats eat the Advisor. That might help.
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Re: Dominion: Menagerie
« Reply #72 on: January 14, 2020, 11:04:51 am »
+10

Dominion menagerie oh yeah! Awesome! I love animals! I volunteer at a zoo. When I made my own fan based expansions I did it with adding more animals to dominion. Now I can put that on hold while wait for my new favorite expansion. I can’t wait to see how the mechanics work in this expansion almost as much as which animals will be in this expansion. Thanks so much Donald for making a animal expansion for dominion. You are awesome!
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Re: Dominion: Menagerie
« Reply #73 on: January 15, 2020, 11:09:28 am »
0

Do we think it is likely that all the Kingdoms are animals or just 6-10?
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Re: Dominion: Menagerie
« Reply #74 on: January 15, 2020, 11:48:47 am »
+2

Do we think it is likely that all the Kingdoms are animals or just 6-10?

I'd assume basically no chance of them being all animals. At most, half of them.
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Re: Dominion: Menagerie
« Reply #75 on: January 15, 2020, 12:48:25 pm »
+11

I hope there's at least enough animal cards that we can make an animal kingdom.
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Re: Dominion: Menagerie
« Reply #76 on: January 15, 2020, 04:20:34 pm »
+1

My guess, based on past sets, is that at least half the cards will be on-theme. Look at the other sets with strong themes: Seaside, Alchemy, Dark Ages, Guilds, Nocturne and the proportions of those that related to the theme.

(Good luck figuring out which cards match the theme of "hinterlands". (-8 )

As for making an animal kingdom, that's already just-about possible: Familiar, Trusty Steed, Rats, Magpie, Wolf Den, Faithful Hound, Goat, Bat, Locusts. You might need to stretch a point and include animal-related things like Wolf Den, Werewolf, Menagerie, Stables, Hunting Party, Hunting Grounds, Wild Hunt, Horse Traders, etc.
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Re: Dominion: Menagerie
« Reply #77 on: January 15, 2020, 04:58:05 pm »
+3

As for making an animal kingdom, that's already just-about possible: Familiar, Trusty Steed, Rats, Magpie, Wolf Den, Faithful Hound, Goat, Bat, Locusts. You might need to stretch a point and include animal-related things like Wolf Den, Werewolf, Menagerie, Stables, Hunting Party, Hunting Grounds, Wild Hunt, Horse Traders, etc.

I don't know if I would call that familiar an animal any more than I would call the Imp one.

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Re: Dominion: Menagerie
« Reply #78 on: January 15, 2020, 05:40:54 pm »
0

My guess, based on past sets, is that at least half the cards will be on-theme. Look at the other sets with strong themes: Seaside, Alchemy, Dark Ages, Guilds, Nocturne and the proportions of those that related to the theme.

(Good luck figuring out which cards match the theme of "hinterlands". (-8 )

As for making an animal kingdom, that's already just-about possible: Familiar, Trusty Steed, Rats, Magpie, Wolf Den, Faithful Hound, Goat, Bat, Locusts. You might need to stretch a point and include animal-related things like Wolf Den, Werewolf, Menagerie, Stables, Hunting Party, Hunting Grounds, Wild Hunt, Horse Traders, etc.

Werewolf isn't any less animal related than Bat.

Edit: Also, my list had Pooka.
« Last Edit: January 15, 2020, 05:55:18 pm by markusin »
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Re: Dominion: Menagerie
« Reply #79 on: January 15, 2020, 08:21:29 pm »
0

My guess, based on past sets, is that at least half the cards will be on-theme. Look at the other sets with strong themes: Seaside, Alchemy, Dark Ages, Guilds, Nocturne and the proportions of those that related to the theme.

Yeah but "on theme" here doesn't mean "is a card named after an animal".
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Re: Dominion: Menagerie
« Reply #80 on: January 15, 2020, 09:44:53 pm »
+1

My guess, based on past sets, is that at least half the cards will be on-theme. Look at the other sets with strong themes: Seaside, Alchemy, Dark Ages, Guilds, Nocturne and the proportions of those that related to the theme.

(Good luck figuring out which cards match the theme of "hinterlands". (-8 )

As for making an animal kingdom, that's already just-about possible: Familiar, Trusty Steed, Rats, Magpie, Wolf Den, Faithful Hound, Goat, Bat, Locusts. You might need to stretch a point and include animal-related things like Wolf Den, Werewolf, Menagerie, Stables, Hunting Party, Hunting Grounds, Wild Hunt, Horse Traders, etc.

Werewolf isn't any less animal related than Bat.


wait do you think a werewolf isn't a person?

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Re: Dominion: Menagerie
« Reply #81 on: January 16, 2020, 09:07:56 am »
+2

As for making an animal kingdom, that's already just-about possible: Familiar, Trusty Steed, Rats, Magpie, Wolf Den, Faithful Hound, Goat, Bat, Locusts. You might need to stretch a point and include animal-related things like Wolf Den, Werewolf, Menagerie, Stables, Hunting Party, Hunting Grounds, Wild Hunt, Horse Traders, etc.

Trusty Steed, Wolf Den, Goat, Bat, and Locusts aren't kingdom cards, so they don't belong in an animal kingdom. Familiar and Menagerie aren't specific animals. Stables and Horse Traders are humans or human-made things. Hunting Party, Hunting Grounds, and Wild Hunt are killing animals, so I wouldn't count them in an animal kingdom. A werewolf is a person for 98.3% of their life, only become an animal for the 1.7% of their life which is a full moon.

So by my count, our current animal kingdom is Rats, Magpie, Faithful Hound. 7 to go.
If I were slightly less strict, I might include Familiar and/or Menagerie, bringing the needed amount down to 5.
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Re: Dominion: Menagerie
« Reply #82 on: January 16, 2020, 09:36:42 am »
0

Yes, if it's purely a kingdom of animals, it's 3. But I would include Menagerie, Stables and Horse Traders if it's an animal-themed kingdom, so that's 6.

I don't see why people keep saying Familiar, I guess they think it's a cat? Take a look at the card, it's just some fantasy creature.

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Re: Dominion: Menagerie
« Reply #83 on: January 16, 2020, 10:34:48 am »
0

I don't see why people keep saying Familiar, I guess they think it's a cat? Take a look at the card, it's just some fantasy creature.

A fantasy creature is an animal basically by definition. Sure it's not an animal that exists in the real world, which sets it apart from something like Goat, but it's definitely an animal. (I guess the other difference is that it's not the name of an animal, but rather the name of a roll that an animal plays? So it's more like "livestock" or "pet").
« Last Edit: January 16, 2020, 10:35:57 am by GendoIkari »
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Re: Dominion: Menagerie
« Reply #84 on: January 16, 2020, 10:52:17 am »
0

I don't see why people keep saying Familiar, I guess they think it's a cat? Take a look at the card, it's just some fantasy creature.

A fantasy creature is an animal basically by definition. Sure it's not an animal that exists in the real world, which sets it apart from something like Goat, but it's definitely an animal. (I guess the other difference is that it's not the name of an animal, but rather the name of a roll that an animal plays? So it's more like "livestock" or "pet").

But then Golem, Imp and Will-o'-Wisp are also animals? (I know the latter two are not kingdom cards.)

Edit: Again, take a look at the card. The familiar on the card is depicted as a demon-like creature, not as a real animal that plays a role as a familiar. Familiars are familiar spirits that can appear "as animals, but also at times as humans or humanoid figures." (WP) In this case it's not an animal, it's a little demon-like fantastical creature.
« Last Edit: January 16, 2020, 10:59:14 am by Jeebus »
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Re: Dominion: Menagerie
« Reply #85 on: January 16, 2020, 11:12:19 am »
+5

Familiars are familiar spirits that can appear "as animals, but also at times as humans or humanoid figures."

I didn't know this. I must not be as..... familiar with the subject as you!
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Re: Dominion: Menagerie
« Reply #86 on: January 16, 2020, 11:38:56 am »
+2

My guess, based on past sets, is that at least half the cards will be on-theme. Look at the other sets with strong themes: Seaside, Alchemy, Dark Ages, Guilds, Nocturne and the proportions of those that related to the theme.

(Good luck figuring out which cards match the theme of "hinterlands". (-8 )

As for making an animal kingdom, that's already just-about possible: Familiar, Trusty Steed, Rats, Magpie, Wolf Den, Faithful Hound, Goat, Bat, Locusts. You might need to stretch a point and include animal-related things like Wolf Den, Werewolf, Menagerie, Stables, Hunting Party, Hunting Grounds, Wild Hunt, Horse Traders, etc.

Werewolf isn't any less animal related than Bat.


wait do you think a werewolf isn't a person?

The bat is actually the Vampire that transforms into the bat (you can't remove the Bat from the Vampire because Bat is not a kingdom card). Similarly, the Werewolf is a man that takes on a wolf form at night, perhaps depending on the moon. The wolf form is not shown on the card, so it might be an actual wolf or a "wolf-man".

So I say Werewolf isn't any less animal related than bat because both are humanoids transforming into animals.
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Re: Dominion: Menagerie
« Reply #87 on: January 16, 2020, 11:52:32 am »
+2

My guess, based on past sets, is that at least half the cards will be on-theme. Look at the other sets with strong themes: Seaside, Alchemy, Dark Ages, Guilds, Nocturne and the proportions of those that related to the theme.

(Good luck figuring out which cards match the theme of "hinterlands". (-8 )

As for making an animal kingdom, that's already just-about possible: Familiar, Trusty Steed, Rats, Magpie, Wolf Den, Faithful Hound, Goat, Bat, Locusts. You might need to stretch a point and include animal-related things like Wolf Den, Werewolf, Menagerie, Stables, Hunting Party, Hunting Grounds, Wild Hunt, Horse Traders, etc.

Werewolf isn't any less animal related than Bat.


wait do you think a werewolf isn't a person?

The bat is actually the Vampire that transforms into the bat (you can't remove the Bat from the Vampire because Bat is not a kingdom card). Similarly, the Werewolf is a man that takes on a wolf form at night, perhaps depending on the moon. The wolf form is not shown on the card, so it might be an actual wolf or a "wolf-man".

So I say Werewolf isn't any less animal related than bat because both are humanoids transforming into animals.

Yeah, in this case it's the difference between "Bat as a card name with no context" and "Bat as the name of a card that exists in Dominion, and isn't actually a real bat, but a form taken by a mythical creature".
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Re: Dominion: Menagerie
« Reply #88 on: January 17, 2020, 10:39:20 pm »
+1

Do we think it is likely that all the Kingdoms are animals or just 6-10?

I'd assume basically no chance of them being all animals. At most, half of them.

Do humans count in your classification?  Because you're expecting ships and buildings and inanimate objects for the other 50%.
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Re: Dominion: Menagerie
« Reply #89 on: January 18, 2020, 08:19:21 am »
+9

As a Monty Python fan, I'm going to be sad if there isn't some form of rabbit with a surprisingly strong attack, incidentally.
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Re: Dominion: Menagerie
« Reply #90 on: January 18, 2020, 08:19:38 pm »
+3

And don’t forget enchantress also had a pig in it.
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Re: Dominion: Menagerie
« Reply #91 on: January 19, 2020, 09:11:44 am »
0

If we're going down the route of cards with animal in the art, even Village counts. Actually, at a quick glance, Harbinger, Merchant, Village, Gardens, Poacher, Market from the base set feature animals in the art. (-8
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Re: Dominion: Menagerie
« Reply #92 on: January 19, 2020, 02:00:57 pm »
0

If we're going down the route of cards with animal in the art, even Village counts. Actually, at a quick glance, Harbinger, Merchant, Village, Gardens, Poacher, Market from the base set feature animals in the art. (-8

Poacher now counts as an attack and other players discard down to 5/4/3 cards in hand.
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Re: Dominion: Menagerie
« Reply #93 on: January 22, 2020, 01:33:54 am »
0

Enchantress didn’t just simply have a pig on it, whenever I played online my first action always had a picture of the pig on it when enchantress was in play hence my first action became the pig. So it was almost like pig was a separate Kingdom card.

Village, harbinger ect. Didn’t do that.
« Last Edit: January 22, 2020, 01:35:06 am by ClouduHieh »
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Re: Dominion: Menagerie
« Reply #94 on: January 22, 2020, 11:07:10 am »
+2

Enchantress didn’t just simply have a pig on it, whenever I played online my first action always had a picture of the pig on it when enchantress was in play hence my first action became the pig. So it was almost like pig was a separate Kingdom card.

Village, harbinger ect. Didn’t do that.

Right, but that's not part of the game: There is no rule that says that an Enchanted card should be replaced with a Pig card (and there is no Pig card). That's just a graphic representation chosen by the developer of the online client.

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Re: Dominion: Menagerie
« Reply #95 on: January 22, 2020, 12:38:24 pm »
+11

Right, but that's not part of the game: There is no rule that says that an Enchanted card should be replaced with a Pig card (and there is no Pig card). That's just a graphic representation chosen by the developer of the online client.

And the reason was that we were getting lots of bug repoprts that said "card XYZ is not working, see my game number ...". Then it turned out there was an Enchantress played, that of course stopped the card XYZ doing what it normally does. This was due to several factors; the main one being the game doesn't show cards in play from the non-active player, so players could simply not see their opponent's Enchantress as they could in RL play.

So the choice was made to make it very clear that, if you are affected by an opponent's Enchantress, you can see that in advance in your personal status bar, and, most importantly, when you wanted to click on the first Action card that turn, you would see the Pig picture and be reminded that you get +1 Card, +1 Action.
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Re: Dominion: Menagerie
« Reply #96 on: January 22, 2020, 05:31:38 pm »
+3

All I’m saying is the pig had a more active roll than the horse in harbinger. Thanks of course to online version. At the end of day though any extra card or box that has a picture of an animal on it is cool, like for instance hinterlands box had a monkey on it cool. And getting a new expansion with some animals actually having a bigger role in the game. Awesome!
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Re: Dominion: Menagerie
« Reply #97 on: January 22, 2020, 06:14:49 pm »
+2

Right, but that's not part of the game: There is no rule that says that an Enchanted card should be replaced with a Pig card (and there is no Pig card). That's just a graphic representation chosen by the developer of the online client.

And the reason was that we were getting lots of bug repoprts that said "card XYZ is not working, see my game number ...". Then it turned out there was an Enchantress played, that of course stopped the card XYZ doing what it normally does. This was due to several factors; the main one being the game doesn't show cards in play from the non-active player, so players could simply not see their opponent's Enchantress as they could in RL play.

So the choice was made to make it very clear that, if you are affected by an opponent's Enchantress, you can see that in advance in your personal status bar, and, most importantly, when you wanted to click on the first Action card that turn, you would see the Pig picture and be reminded that you get +1 Card, +1 Action.

this is a fascinating piece of insight into why the piggy cards exist.

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Re: Dominion: Menagerie
« Reply #98 on: January 23, 2020, 01:25:15 am »
+1

Dominion getting an animal themed expansion. Does this mean its jumped the shark?

 ;D
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Re: Dominion: Menagerie
« Reply #99 on: January 23, 2020, 08:19:53 pm »
+1

Empires contained Catapult, and a Catapult is tantamount to jumping the shark .
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Re: Dominion: Menagerie
« Reply #100 on: January 23, 2020, 10:47:05 pm »
+3

I hope there's a card called Early Bird that allows you to gain a non-supply card called Worm
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Re: Dominion: Menagerie
« Reply #101 on: January 24, 2020, 03:32:23 am »
+3

All I’m saying is the pig had a more active roll than the horse in harbinger.

Empty draw pile should be represented by a dead horse card.
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Re: Dominion: Menagerie
« Reply #102 on: January 26, 2020, 12:59:23 pm »
+1

The game comes to a stand still when you play Possum.

Now that's funny, I don't care who you are!
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Re: Dominion: Menagerie
« Reply #103 on: January 29, 2020, 11:04:20 pm »
+9

Hoping for a Wolf card that eats your Goat if you leave the two together, and likewise a Cabbage card that your Goat eats.
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Re: Dominion: Menagerie
« Reply #104 on: January 29, 2020, 11:52:07 pm »
+3

Hoping for a Wolf card that eats your Goat if you leave the two together, and likewise a Cabbage card that your Goat eats.

There has to be some kind of Traveler and mat sequence for this.  And some kind of absurd payoff.
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Re: Dominion: Menagerie
« Reply #105 on: January 30, 2020, 01:42:54 am »
0

“just as useless for sewing as you’d been warned”  ;D

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Re: Dominion: Menagerie
« Reply #106 on: January 30, 2020, 02:12:34 am »
+3

Lions, split pile. You gotta buy 5x Lions before you reach the 5x Christians. Play a Lion when you already have a Christian in play, +3 cards, trash any number of cards, +1VP per $1 cost of the cards you trashed.

No one could object to a card like that, right?

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Re: Dominion: Menagerie
« Reply #107 on: January 31, 2020, 07:17:56 am »
+1

Lions, split pile. You gotta buy 5x Lions before you reach the 5x Christians. Play a Lion when you already have a Christian in play, +3 cards, trash any number of cards, +1VP per $1 cost of the cards you trashed.

No one could object to a card like that, right?

Is that a Daniel in the lion's den reference?
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Re: Dominion: Menagerie
« Reply #108 on: January 31, 2020, 10:36:06 am »
+3

Lions, split pile. You gotta buy 5x Lions before you reach the 5x Christians. Play a Lion when you already have a Christian in play, +3 cards, trash any number of cards, +1VP per $1 cost of the cards you trashed.

No one could object to a card like that, right?

Is that a Daniel in the lion's den reference?

I thought it was a reference to Nero, who would put Christians clothed in meat into a gladiator pit with a pack of wild animals who would then essentially eat that person alive.
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Re: Dominion: Menagerie
« Reply #109 on: February 11, 2020, 10:09:54 am »
+7

36 days until projected release date!

(I always like using square numbers as my markings for time -- as we get closer to the date, they come more frequently)
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Re: Dominion: Menagerie
« Reply #110 on: February 11, 2020, 11:06:17 am »
0

36 days until projected release date!

(I always like using square numbers as my markings for time -- as we get closer to the date, they come more frequently)
As is tradition, 36 days for me to figure out storage for this next set.
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Re: Dominion: Menagerie
« Reply #111 on: February 11, 2020, 11:28:23 am »
0

36 days until projected release date!

(I always like using square numbers as my markings for time -- as we get closer to the date, they come more frequently)
As is tradition, 36 days for me to figure out storage for this next set.

You figure it out in advance? That's probably smart. I just keep it in the original box until I can figure something out, which I inevitably don't get around to until months later. At least this time I managed to get around to Rennaissance storage a decent amount of time before the new one came out -- I think I didn't get around to Nocturne storage until about a week before Rennaissance.
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Re: Dominion: Menagerie
« Reply #112 on: February 11, 2020, 12:41:57 pm »
0

36 days until projected release date!

(I always like using square numbers as my markings for time -- as we get closer to the date, they come more frequently)
As is tradition, 36 days for me to figure out storage for this next set.

You figure it out in advance? That's probably smart. I just keep it in the original box until I can figure something out, which I inevitably don't get around to until months later. At least this time I managed to get around to Rennaissance storage a decent amount of time before the new one came out -- I think I didn't get around to Nocturne storage until about a week before Rennaissance.

Alas, I still have Renaissance in the original box.  :(
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Re: Dominion: Menagerie
« Reply #113 on: February 11, 2020, 04:57:36 pm »
+18

With printing started, we continue to expect the expansion within a day or two of March 18.

Previews will be the first week of March.
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Re: Dominion: Menagerie
« Reply #114 on: February 13, 2020, 10:28:10 am »
0

from a sleeving-planning perspective, the Events are included in that 400 cards? (or, Card-like things are included in the 400 cards?)
« Last Edit: February 13, 2020, 11:08:10 am by spineflu »
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Re: Dominion: Menagerie
« Reply #115 on: February 13, 2020, 03:40:58 pm »
+4

from a sleeving-planning perspective, the Events are included in that 400 cards? (or, Card-like things are included in the 400 cards?)
There are 400 cards, no more no less, and all of them are the usual size. There aren't any you would pass on sleeving.
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Re: Dominion: Menagerie
« Reply #116 on: February 13, 2020, 11:08:17 pm »
+1

36 days until projected release date!

(I always like using square numbers as my markings for time -- as we get closer to the date, they come more frequently)
As is tradition, 36 days for me to figure out storage for this next set.

You figure it out in advance? That's probably smart. I just keep it in the original box until I can figure something out, which I inevitably don't get around to until months later. At least this time I managed to get around to Rennaissance storage a decent amount of time before the new one came out -- I think I didn't get around to Nocturne storage until about a week before Rennaissance.

Alas, I still have Renaissance in the original box.  :(

You mean you guys don't just keep them all in the original box and pray that you have enough space on the dominion shelf for the next one?
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Re: Dominion: Menagerie
« Reply #117 on: February 14, 2020, 11:18:07 am »
+1

36 days until projected release date!

(I always like using square numbers as my markings for time -- as we get closer to the date, they come more frequently)
As is tradition, 36 days for me to figure out storage for this next set.

You figure it out in advance? That's probably smart. I just keep it in the original box until I can figure something out, which I inevitably don't get around to until months later. At least this time I managed to get around to Rennaissance storage a decent amount of time before the new one came out -- I think I didn't get around to Nocturne storage until about a week before Rennaissance.

Alas, I still have Renaissance in the original box.  :(

You mean you guys don't just keep them all in the original box and pray that you have enough space on the dominion shelf for the next one?

I guess it's partly for storage, but it's mostly for ease of setup. I'd rather have only two or three boxes out than bring out 12 different boxes because every card/event/landmark/project my randomizer picked is from a different expansion (realistically, that doesn't happen, but I just ran the randomizer program I use a few times and didn't get a single kingdom which used fewer than 6 separate expansions).
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flynd

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Re: Dominion: Menagerie
« Reply #118 on: February 16, 2020, 04:28:19 am »
+2

There are 400 cards, no more no less, and all of them are the usual size. There aren't any you would pass on sleeving.

As we already know that there are 30 kingdoms, it should be safe to assume that there are at least 30 cards that won't need sleeves for those of us that use a randomizer app (or any other method that won't include shuffling 366 cards).
As I never expect to have more than 4 players, I also leave out the cards that are extra for 5-6 players (i.e. 20 Curses, 4 of each Ruin, 2 Goats, etc.). Including the extra set of base cards from first edition Intrigue, that's almost 14% of the cards that I've left out and therefore haven't sleeved.
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Re: Dominion: Menagerie
« Reply #119 on: February 16, 2020, 12:36:56 pm »
+1

Unless this is a subtle hint that Menagerie includes a non-randomising use for the randomisers?
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Re: Dominion: Menagerie
« Reply #120 on: February 16, 2020, 01:17:14 pm »
+1

As I never expect to have more than 4 players, I also leave out the cards that are extra for 5-6 players (i.e. 20 Curses, 4 of each Ruin, 2 Goats, etc.).
Actually, if you want to play according to the official rules you need all 50 Ruins. You shuffle them all, then count out how many you need for the game.

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Re: Dominion: Menagerie
« Reply #121 on: February 16, 2020, 02:03:12 pm »
+1

As I never expect to have more than 4 players, I also leave out the cards that are extra for 5-6 players (i.e. 20 Curses, 4 of each Ruin, 2 Goats, etc.).
Actually, if you want to play according to the official rules you need all 50 Ruins. You shuffle them all, then count out how many you need for the game.

True, using just 30 Ruins instead of 50 will have to be classified as a house rule but I think it won't make any major difference, especially in 2 player games which is what I mostly play.
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Re: Dominion: Menagerie
« Reply #122 on: February 16, 2020, 11:28:50 pm »
0

Something randomly occurred to me. Out of no where I remembered a fan card that created a +card token concept (worked just like Coffers and/or Villagers but for cards). The critique that I had for that makes me wonder if Horses are going to be more than just a vanilla +card token...

The critique being that it's far too rare that you would actually want to save the token for later instead of using it right now. I feel like it would pretty much only come up when you are over-drawing your deck. If you still have cards in your deck, and you have a +card token lying around, aren't you going to just spend that token almost every time? At least in an engine deck, which seems to be most good Dominion decks these days. Sure you could be playing some sort of BM without +buy and already have your ; but that just doesn't seem common enough.

It's at least enough to make me wonder if Horses will be something other than simply a Coffers for +card.
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Re: Dominion: Menagerie
« Reply #123 on: February 17, 2020, 12:27:03 am »
+1

I'd be tempted to disagree (and hope I'll have fun playing in order to find out). Card draw at the start of your turn is way more powerful than draw later, when it comes to consistency. It might well be worth accepting one indifferent turn in order to establish a rhythm of using the horses you got on your previous turn, then saving a fresh set for the next one.
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Re: Dominion: Menagerie
« Reply #124 on: February 17, 2020, 02:32:35 am »
0

If you still have cards in your deck, and you have a +card token lying around, aren't you going to just spend that token almost every time?

That's like trivially not the case. You don't spend your coffers almost every time, you only spend them when they're easier to acquire than actual coins or during specific moments when you get particularly good value from them. You very rarely spend a coffer to hit $6 instead of $5, and similarly, you would very rarely spend a card token to dig for more money to hit $6 instead of $5. The card token has the extra benefit of cycling your deck so you do have an extra incentive to use them before the end of the shuffle compared to coffers, but on the other hand, the prospect of saving you from a potentially-game-losing dud turn is an extra incentive to save them compared to coffers.
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Re: Dominion: Menagerie
« Reply #125 on: February 17, 2020, 09:38:29 am »
0

The difference is that the Coffer can't do anything except increase your buying power; and you know exactly whether or not you need it at any given moment. Drawing an extra card now could easily be the difference between drawing your deck this turn and not. I'm thinking specifically engines.
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Re: Dominion: Menagerie
« Reply #126 on: February 17, 2020, 10:14:25 am »
+5

Uhm... Sinister Plot? Why are you guys talking like a +1 Card token is all theoretical?

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Re: Dominion: Menagerie
« Reply #127 on: February 17, 2020, 10:33:50 am »
0

Uhm... Sinister Plot? Why are you guys talking like a +1 Card token is all theoretical?

Well the big difference there is that it's not a choice between card now or card later... you get more cards per turn if you take more at once. Taking cards as soon as possible means only getting 1/2 cards per turn.
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Re: Dominion: Menagerie
« Reply #128 on: February 17, 2020, 10:40:52 am »
0

Uhm... Sinister Plot? Why are you guys talking like a +1 Card token is all theoretical?

Well the big difference there is that it's not a choice between card now or card later... you get more cards per turn if you take more at once. Taking cards as soon as possible means only getting 1/2 cards per turn.

Sure, there are differences. But if you would always want to use your +1 Card token and never save it, surely it would be the same for Sinister Plot? You would use it to draw 1 extra every other turn.

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Re: Dominion: Menagerie
« Reply #129 on: February 17, 2020, 11:16:47 am »
0

Uhm... Sinister Plot? Why are you guys talking like a +1 Card token is all theoretical?

Well the big difference there is that it's not a choice between card now or card later... you get more cards per turn if you take more at once. Taking cards as soon as possible means only getting 1/2 cards per turn.

Sure, there are differences. But if you would always want to use your +1 Card token and never save it, surely it would be the same for Sinister Plot? You would use it to draw 1 extra every other turn.

With Sinister Plot, choosing to use it now means getting fewer total cards from it. With a card/horse token, you get the same number of total cards whether you use it now or later.
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Re: Dominion: Menagerie
« Reply #130 on: February 17, 2020, 12:09:31 pm »
0

With Sinister Plot, choosing to use it now means getting fewer total cards from it. With a card/horse token, you get the same number of total cards whether you use it now or later.

Ok, that's true. With Sinister Plot, you use all your tokens at the expense of a token. I still feel like Sinister Plot tells us that sometimes it's better to wait for a big payout. The relative cost decreases the longer you wait. But you're right that it's not exactly comparable.
« Last Edit: February 17, 2020, 12:10:46 pm by Jeebus »
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Re: Dominion: Menagerie
« Reply #131 on: February 17, 2020, 01:09:04 pm »
0

The difference is that the Coffer can't do anything except increase your buying power; and you know exactly whether or not you need it at any given moment. Drawing an extra card now could easily be the difference between drawing your deck this turn and not. I'm thinking specifically engines.

The difference between drawing your deck this turn and not is not a very big difference if you've already drawn 90-93% of it anyway. It's a big difference if your starting 5 on a future turn gives you a dud turn.
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Re: Dominion: Menagerie
« Reply #132 on: February 17, 2020, 01:49:41 pm »
0

Maybe the actual difference is more in uncertainty instead of strength; and the uncertainty mislead me into thinking it was strength... to explain, you always know for sure if you want/need to use a Coffer now; and most of the time that you don't use it, it's because using it would literally add 0 benefit to your current turn (you already had enough money to buy the card you wanted). So the choice isn't as often between getting a benefit now vs later; it's about using the coffer when it actually does give a benefit.

With the card token; not using it now is sacrificing something now for something later. Even if you have enough money to buy what you want; using the card token is still going to give some sort of benefit (maybe as little as cycling; but maybe drawing another attack, or a gainer, or a +buy, etc). And you don't know for sure what you are sacrificing. It's more of a gamble.
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Re: Dominion: Menagerie
« Reply #133 on: February 17, 2020, 04:31:46 pm »
+1

Maybe the actual difference is more in uncertainty instead of strength; and the uncertainty mislead me into thinking it was strength... to explain, you always know for sure if you want/need to use a Coffer now; and most of the time that you don't use it, it's because using it would literally add 0 benefit to your current turn (you already had enough money to buy the card you wanted). So the choice isn't as often between getting a benefit now vs later; it's about using the coffer when it actually does give a benefit.

With the card token; not using it now is sacrificing something now for something later. Even if you have enough money to buy what you want; using the card token is still going to give some sort of benefit (maybe as little as cycling; but maybe drawing another attack, or a gainer, or a +buy, etc). And you don't know for sure what you are sacrificing. It's more of a gamble.

It's definitely uncertain when we're talking about it on paper but I suspect that in practice it won't be that hard to make the call. You know what's in your deck so you know what you're hoping to accomplish, and you have at least a rough idea how likely it is that you'll succeed. It's worth noting that now vs. later doesn't always accomplish anything because drawing a Chapel on turn 3 or drawing it on turn 4 is pretty much the same. But if it's t4 and you haven't drawn your Chapel yet, spending a token gives you a 50% chance to save the Chapel from missing the shuffle, which is probably one of the best uses of the token. If it's t4 and you haven't drawn your last two Estates yet, spending a token gives you a 100% chance to save an Estate from missing the shuffle, which is obviously terrible. This is effectively the same scenario that you have in the engine that doesn't overdraw, because in that situation, something misses the shuffle every turn unless you spend the tokens, and whether spending the tokens is good or not depends on what's about to miss the shuffle.
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Re: Dominion: Menagerie
« Reply #134 on: February 24, 2020, 09:50:48 am »
+1

So, with Sinister Plot you have to decide at the start of the turn. If +card tokens could be used at any time during your action phase, then before you spend the tokens you can see if the two villages you started with happen to draw smithies, which would make the need for spending the tokens unnecessary. With Sinister Plot you may not be able to take that chance and will have to spend the tokens despite them ultimately not having been necessary.
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Re: Dominion: Menagerie
« Reply #135 on: February 25, 2020, 11:30:10 am »
+3

New Dominion expansions are always exciting. 


Now I'll have another box to add to my Menagarie of Dominion-related cardboard, further confusing my family as to why on Earth I have like 13 (or 14?) boxes just related to Dominion but oh well :p

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Re: Dominion: Menagerie
« Reply #136 on: February 28, 2020, 03:27:09 am »
+26

There is no Menagerie subforum yet! Maybe there won't be one, dunno, but, this would go there if there was one.

Menagerie previews start Monday, and as usual I have a teaser. I like trying different things with the teasers, and well this time the teaser is little bits of text from 10 cards or card-shaped things. See what you can make of them.

"5 or fewer"
"$1 less per"
"a different thing"
"an unused Action"
"either now or"
"hand three times"
"instead, and vice-versa"
"instead of paying"
"province, a duchy"
"they discard their"
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Re: Dominion: Menagerie
« Reply #137 on: February 28, 2020, 04:36:32 am »
+4

Oh snap.

I still remember being all sad after being told there wouldn't be any more expansions after guilds.

Menagerie previews start Monday, and as usual I have a teaser. I like trying different things with the teasers, and well this time the teaser is little bits of text from 10 cards or card-shaped things. See what you can make of them.

"5 or fewer"
"$1 less per"
"a different thing"
"an unused Action"
"either now or"
"hand three times"
"instead, and vice-versa"
"instead of paying"
"province, a duchy"
"they discard their"

Ordered by confidence (low to lower):

[As part of effect]: "If you have an unused action, +1 Action"

[Below horizontal line]: "when you buy this card, instead of paying for it, you may do [bad thing]"

[Below horizontal line]: "During your buy phase, this costs 1$ less per [insert name of this card] you have in play"

[On an attack]: "Until your next turn, when another player didn't buy a Province, a duchy, or a [insert name of this card] at the end of their turn, they gain a Curse"

[Below horizontal line]: "While this is in play, when you would gain +1 Action, you may gain +1$ instead, and vice versa."
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hhelibebcnofnena

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Re: Dominion: Menagerie
« Reply #138 on: February 28, 2020, 11:31:21 am »
+3

"hand three times"
One card already in the game says this: King's Court. Maybe some sort of KC variant?
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Re: Dominion: Menagerie
« Reply #139 on: February 28, 2020, 11:54:03 am »
+1


I can think of something (along the lines of what silverspawn and hhelibebcnofnena posted) for most of these, but this one seems especially interesting:

"a different thing"

Speculation: These three:
"an unused Action"
"instead, and vice-versa"
"instead of paying"

come from Ways.
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Re: Dominion: Menagerie
« Reply #140 on: February 28, 2020, 12:02:41 pm »
+13

There is no Menagerie subforum yet! Maybe there won't be one, dunno, but, this would go there if there was one.

Menagerie previews start Monday, and as usual I have a teaser. I like trying different things with the teasers, and well this time the teaser is little bits of text from 10 cards or card-shaped things. See what you can make of them.

"5 or fewer"
"$1 less per"
"a different thing"
"an unused Action"
"either now or"
"hand three times"
"instead, and vice-versa"
"instead of paying"
"province, a duchy"
"they discard their"

I'm 98% sure that all of these are right. The last one was a tip from Jeff Kornberg.

Setup: In games with 5 or fewer players, add dummy players until there are 6 players in the game, and add Messenger to the kingdom.

Menagerie costs $1 less per copy of Dominion: Menagerie you own.

When you gain this, you may instead (for no additional cost) buy a different thing that is card-shaped of equal or lesser printed cost.

+1 Card, +1 Action. If you have an unused Action, discard your hand.

At the start of each of your turns for the rest of the game, +10 cards. Either now or at the start of your next turn, the player to your left gains all the victory cards in the supply.

Compute by hand three times seven. If the answer is prime, gain all the curses from the supply.

When you buy a copper, you may gain a curse instead, and vice-versa.

When you buy this, you may pay $4 for it instead of paying $5 for it.

Compared to province, a duchy is worth 3 fewer points. (This has no effect on gameplay; it is merely a statement taking up valuable space on a card-shaped thing)

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Re: Dominion: Menagerie
« Reply #141 on: February 28, 2020, 12:26:39 pm »
+2

"a different thing"

I can't imagine an instruction where the best way to phrase it is with the word "thing". Hopefully it's my imagination that's lacking!

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Re: Dominion: Menagerie
« Reply #142 on: February 28, 2020, 12:32:26 pm »
0

"a different thing"

I can't imagine an instruction where the best way to phrase it is with the word "thing". Hopefully it's my imagination that's lacking!
Maybe 'Thing' is a 'Gathering' or 'Castles'-style card type.

scolapasta

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Re: Dominion: Menagerie
« Reply #143 on: February 28, 2020, 12:44:42 pm »
+2


Speculation: These three:
"an unused Action"
"instead, and vice-versa"
"instead of paying"

come from Ways.

Actually, I am now thinking "instead, and vice-versa" could be a cool reaction (based on reading someone's favorite card from the new set was blue), something alone the lines of:
"When you discard a card, you may reveal this from your hand to trash it instead, and vice-versa. If you do, discard this."
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Re: Dominion: Menagerie
« Reply #144 on: February 28, 2020, 01:21:24 pm »
+1

"a different thing"

I can't imagine an instruction where the best way to phrase it is with the word "thing". Hopefully it's my imagination that's lacking!
Maybe 'Thing' is a 'Gathering' or 'Castles'-style card type.

I'm not sure if there would be a better way to word it, but I'm assuming "thing" would be used if it's multiple different types of objects that are being referenced, but where they're not all "objects" so "thing" is better. Maybe there's a long parentheses afterwards to explain what "thing" refers to, although I feel that would be too much text. You could use "thing" to refer to these things collectively that another word might not be as good at doing: coffers, villagers, ways, tavern mat, etc.

I don't think this would be a good card idea at all, but the card could be an action that reads something like "Each time you play this card on a turn, you may choose a different thing that your opponents cannot use on their turn" (almost like a reverse Contraband, but you can pick things like villagers, coffers, ways, etc.).
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Re: Dominion: Menagerie
« Reply #145 on: February 28, 2020, 01:25:57 pm »
0

I'm not sure if there would be a better way to word it, but I'm assuming "thing" would be used if it's multiple different types of objects that are being referenced, but where they're not all "objects" so "thing" is better. Maybe there's a long parentheses afterwards to explain what "thing" refers to, although I feel that would be too much text. You could use "thing" to refer to these things collectively that another word might not be as good at doing: coffers, villagers, ways, tavern mat, etc.

I don't think this would be a good card idea at all, but the card could be an action that reads something like "Each time you play this card on a turn, you may choose a different thing that your opponents cannot use on their turn" (almost like a reverse Contraband, but you can pick things like villagers, coffers, ways, etc.).

I'm also thinking that it probably has to do with some choice. But why not write "make a different choice for/about" or something?

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Re: Dominion: Menagerie
« Reply #146 on: February 28, 2020, 02:33:05 pm »
0

There is no Menagerie subforum yet! Maybe there won't be one, dunno, but, this would go there if there was one.

Menagerie previews start Monday, and as usual I have a teaser. I like trying different things with the teasers, and well this time the teaser is little bits of text from 10 cards or card-shaped things. See what you can make of them.

"5 or fewer"
"$1 less per"
"a different thing"
"an unused Action"
"either now or"
"hand three times"
"instead, and vice-versa"
"instead of paying"
"province, a duchy"
"they discard their"

The "an" in front of "unused Action" narrows down what it could be.  If the "an" weren't there, I'd assume it was something about "per unused Action", similar to Diadem.  Also, "unused" would be weirdly redundant for most things I can think of using Action cards (e.g., "discard an Action card" - "unused" would be redundant since obviously if it's in your hand to discard it can't have been used!)

Maybe Villagers are being brought back?  So, you might have an Event that has something like "If you have an used Action, +1 villager"

Oh!  Or maybe this would be something with Horses, so you can exchange an unused Action for a Horse that you can use in a later turn

"5 or fewer" has a few interesting possibilities.  My guess is something about "If you have 5 or fewer cards in your hand after playing this ...." (probably something with at least +2 cards, since otherwise having 5 or fewer cards left would be too easy)  But another interesting possibility is something like Council Room, but with a limit in its effect on other people.  "Each other player with 5 or fewer cards in their hand draws one card", so, unlike Council Room, its benefit to other people would be capped, and so there wouldn't ordinarily be any stacking of its effect (unless, of course, a discard attack had been played previously, in which case it would stack until they hit 6 cards)

"Province, a duchy" presumably would be something that would reference Victory cards, but only the base victory cards, so "a Province, a Duchy, or an Estate".  Lots of possible options there, considering how many cards there already are referencing Victory cards

"Hand three times" - My first thought was a joking "reveal your hand three times" which would obviously be pointless (well, unless you happened to have a Patron in your hand ... +3 coffers!)  Maybe something like "trash a card from your hand three times", probably some trash-for-benefit card where you'd get something from the cards you trash

"Instead of paying" maybe a Way that's something like "When you would buy a card, instead of paying its cost, you may trash a card costing at least as much from your hand"

"They discard their" this must be some kind of conditional hand-discarding attack.  Something like "Each other player reveals their hand, if they have X, they discard their hand and draw four cards" or "Each other player reveals their hand.  They discard their hand and draw four cards or [other option (gain a curse maybe?)], your choice"

"$1 less per" and "either now or" could be a lot of different things, so I'm not even going to try to guess
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mxdata

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Re: Dominion: Menagerie
« Reply #147 on: February 28, 2020, 02:37:13 pm »
0


Speculation: These three:
"an unused Action"
"instead, and vice-versa"
"instead of paying"

come from Ways.

Actually, I am now thinking "instead, and vice-versa" could be a cool reaction (based on reading someone's favorite card from the new set was blue), something alone the lines of:
"When you discard a card, you may reveal this from your hand to trash it instead, and vice-versa. If you do, discard this."

That would be a really interesting card.  It would make discard attacks a lot less useful, since you'd frequently end up helping your opponents, especially if you also have junking and/or cursing attacks in the game.  "Oh, you played Militia?  Thanks for letting me trash this Curse!"  Would especially interact weirdly with the Tomb landmark!
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scolapasta

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Re: Dominion: Menagerie
« Reply #148 on: February 28, 2020, 02:47:04 pm »
+1


Speculation: These three:
"an unused Action"
"instead, and vice-versa"
"instead of paying"

come from Ways.

Actually, I am now thinking "instead, and vice-versa" could be a cool reaction (based on reading someone's favorite card from the new set was blue), something alone the lines of:
"When you discard a card, you may reveal this from your hand to trash it instead, and vice-versa. If you do, discard this."

That would be a really interesting card.  It would make discard attacks a lot less useful, since you'd frequently end up helping your opponents, especially if you also have junking and/or cursing attacks in the game.  "Oh, you played Militia?  Thanks for letting me trash this Curse!"  Would especially interact weirdly with the Tomb landmark!

Right. I slight change to my thoughts, I'm thinking it'll have to be "when you would discard a card", meaning you wouldn't be able to, for example:
• discard for Plaza, trash a copper and get +1 Coffers
• trash a Gold with remodel, discard it, and also gain a province

(one of my variants had a similar when you would trash, you may discard clause, so I'd be excited if it were this)

"5 or fewer" likely refers to hands (since "5"), but could also refer to supply piles, e.g. "If there are 5 or fewer Provinces left in the supply".

This is a great idea for the teaser! :)
« Last Edit: February 28, 2020, 03:48:01 pm by scolapasta »
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market squire

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Re: Dominion: Menagerie
« Reply #149 on: February 28, 2020, 08:10:50 pm »
+2

"a different thing"

I can't imagine an instruction where the best way to phrase it is with the word "thing". Hopefully it's my imagination that's lacking!

To me, the only thing that would make sense for this thing under the current ruleset would be a formal term for those things that Donald calls "card-shaped thingys". I'd imagine an effect that refers to buying anything (a card or an event) and then does something to a different thing (card or event or project). Like "when you buy this, you may buy a different thing for less" or something, i don't know.
« Last Edit: February 28, 2020, 08:13:08 pm by market squire »
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Re: Dominion: Menagerie
« Reply #150 on: February 29, 2020, 04:47:27 am »
+1

We already have a precedent for "thing" in Patron.
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Re: Dominion: Menagerie
« Reply #151 on: February 29, 2020, 02:46:44 pm »
+1

Will someone be creating a Menagerie Previews section like we have done in the past for other expansions?
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Re: Dominion: Menagerie
« Reply #152 on: February 29, 2020, 02:58:19 pm »
0

Will someone be creating a Menagerie Previews section like we have done in the past for other expansions?
If not, I can just put them here in this forum.
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Re: Dominion: Menagerie
« Reply #153 on: February 29, 2020, 04:22:48 pm »
0

The big question is, if there is a Menagerie Previews section, will the Dark Ages and Guilds previews get further buried?

GendoIkari

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Re: Dominion: Menagerie
« Reply #154 on: March 05, 2020, 04:18:03 pm »
+3

Found the box art for Menagerie on BGG:

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Re: Dominion: Menagerie
« Reply #155 on: March 05, 2020, 04:31:03 pm »
0

Found the box art for Menagerie on BGG:



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Re: Dominion: Menagerie
« Reply #156 on: March 24, 2020, 11:15:42 am »
+1

When is the secret History for this set supposed to come out?
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Turn -
BBobb plays King's Court
… and plays a Ruined Village.
… … getting +1 Action
… and plays the Ruined Village again.
… … getting +1 Action
… and plays the Ruined village a third time.
… … getting +1 Action.
BBobb plays a Copper.
BBobb buys a Poor House.
(BBobb draws: 2 King's Courts and 3 Possessions)
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Donald X.

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Re: Dominion: Menagerie
« Reply #157 on: March 24, 2020, 01:11:17 pm »
+5

When is the secret History for this set supposed to come out?
Probably when someone could conceivably have the physical set.
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Re: Dominion: Menagerie
« Reply #158 on: March 24, 2020, 03:23:51 pm »
+7



I'm not an expert in agriculture, but this doesn't seem right.
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Re: Dominion: Menagerie
« Reply #159 on: March 24, 2020, 03:31:04 pm »
+1



I'm not an expert in agriculture, but this doesn't seem right.

and what's going on with her face?
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Re: Dominion: Menagerie
« Reply #160 on: March 24, 2020, 03:33:16 pm »
+2



I'm not an expert in agriculture, but this doesn't seem right.

Someone just gave her a gold coin.  She's too happy about the money to use her scythe right
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Re: Dominion: Menagerie
« Reply #161 on: March 24, 2020, 05:43:10 pm »
+10

She's the grin reaper.
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Re: Dominion: Menagerie
« Reply #162 on: March 24, 2020, 06:47:57 pm »
+10

No, wait!  She's toiling ironically!
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Re: Dominion: Menagerie
« Reply #163 on: March 26, 2020, 06:21:54 pm »
0

Any word on physical copies?
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Re: Dominion: Menagerie
« Reply #164 on: March 26, 2020, 06:58:09 pm »
+1

A release date update: delayed. The expansion is in Chicago, but there is a shortage of drivers, and it isn't expected to make it over to RGG's warehouse until Thursday.
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Donald X.

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Re: Dominion: Menagerie
« Reply #165 on: March 27, 2020, 02:52:11 am »
+2

Any word on physical copies?
They arrived in the warehouse on Thursday (today, to me). Now it's up to how long it takes them to get to distributors and then to online stores and then to players. My copies are coming directly from the warehouse so I'll have them in a few days. Some distributors will have them at the same time.
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Re: Dominion: Menagerie
« Reply #166 on: March 30, 2020, 09:23:05 am »
0

If you play an action, then return to your buy phase spending coin of the realm, then buy cavalry, are you supposed to be able to call coin from your mat? Or is that not "directly after you play an action"?
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Re: Dominion: Menagerie
« Reply #167 on: March 30, 2020, 10:17:35 am »
0

I can't see any sense in which gaining a card is playing an action?
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Re: Dominion: Menagerie
« Reply #168 on: March 30, 2020, 10:30:03 am »
0

If you play an action, then return to your buy phase spending coin of the realm, then buy cavalry, are you supposed to be able to call coin from your mat? Or is that not "directly after you play an action"?

What do you mean by "return to your buy phase"? Do you just mean move onto your buy phase? It is definitely too late to call CotR; you cannot do anything between playing the action and calling CotR other than something else that triggers on finishing playing an action, like calling another CotR. Even if you already had CotR on your Tavern Mat and didn't involve any buying Cavalry and returning to your action phase shenanigans, you can't play an action, then move to your buy phase, then call CotR. You can only call CotR in the same phase in which you played the action you are triggering off of.
« Last Edit: March 30, 2020, 11:19:19 am by GendoIkari »
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Re: Dominion: Menagerie
« Reply #169 on: March 30, 2020, 10:56:31 am »
0

If you play an action, then return to your buy phase spending coin of the realm, then buy cavalry, are you supposed to be able to call coin from your mat? Or is that not "directly after you play an action"?

What do you mean by "return to your buy phase"? Do you just mean move onto your buy phase? It is definitely too late to call CotR; you cannot do anything between playing the action and calling CotR other than something else that triggers on finishing playing an action, like calling another CotR. Even if you already had CotR on your Tavern Mat and didn't involve any buying Calvary and returning to your action phase shenanigans, you can't play an action, then move to your buy phase, then call CotR. You can only call CotR in the same phase in which you played the action you are triggering off of.

@underlined: yes

Okay, that makes sense. I think was mostly expecting it to work because I had thought of CotR as "whenever I'm in my action phase, I can call it to make actions" which was basically correct until villa and cavalry and it only matters for cavalry.
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GendoIkari

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Re: Dominion: Menagerie
« Reply #170 on: March 30, 2020, 11:20:42 am »
0

If you play an action, then return to your buy phase spending coin of the realm, then buy cavalry, are you supposed to be able to call coin from your mat? Or is that not "directly after you play an action"?

What do you mean by "return to your buy phase"? Do you just mean move onto your buy phase? It is definitely too late to call CotR; you cannot do anything between playing the action and calling CotR other than something else that triggers on finishing playing an action, like calling another CotR. Even if you already had CotR on your Tavern Mat and didn't involve any buying Calvary and returning to your action phase shenanigans, you can't play an action, then move to your buy phase, then call CotR. You can only call CotR in the same phase in which you played the action you are triggering off of.

@underlined: yes

Okay, that makes sense. I think was mostly expecting it to work because I had thought of CotR as "whenever I'm in my action phase, I can call it to make actions" which was basically correct until villa and cavalry and it only matters for cavalry.

Why would Cavalry be different than Villa there? The key is that CotR is a normal triggered ability just like Tunnel or Moat... you can only use the ability exactly when it says you can.
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Re: Dominion: Menagerie
« Reply #171 on: March 30, 2020, 12:55:16 pm »
+1

If you play an action, then return to your buy phase spending coin of the realm, then buy cavalry, are you supposed to be able to call coin from your mat? Or is that not "directly after you play an action"?

What do you mean by "return to your buy phase"? Do you just mean move onto your buy phase? It is definitely too late to call CotR; you cannot do anything between playing the action and calling CotR other than something else that triggers on finishing playing an action, like calling another CotR. Even if you already had CotR on your Tavern Mat and didn't involve any buying Calvary and returning to your action phase shenanigans, you can't play an action, then move to your buy phase, then call CotR. You can only call CotR in the same phase in which you played the action you are triggering off of.

@underlined: yes

Okay, that makes sense. I think was mostly expecting it to work because I had thought of CotR as "whenever I'm in my action phase, I can call it to make actions" which was basically correct until villa and cavalry and it only matters for cavalry.

Why would Cavalry be different than Villa there? The key is that CotR is a normal triggered ability just like Tunnel or Moat... you can only use the ability exactly when it says you can.

The question never came up with Villa, because Villa also gives you +1 Action when you gain it, but Cavalry can return you to your Action phase but without the ability to actually play any Action cards.
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Re: Dominion: Menagerie
« Reply #172 on: March 30, 2020, 01:28:32 pm »
0

If you play an action, then return to your buy phase spending coin of the realm, then buy cavalry, are you supposed to be able to call coin from your mat? Or is that not "directly after you play an action"?

What do you mean by "return to your buy phase"? Do you just mean move onto your buy phase? It is definitely too late to call CotR; you cannot do anything between playing the action and calling CotR other than something else that triggers on finishing playing an action, like calling another CotR. Even if you already had CotR on your Tavern Mat and didn't involve any buying Calvary and returning to your action phase shenanigans, you can't play an action, then move to your buy phase, then call CotR. You can only call CotR in the same phase in which you played the action you are triggering off of.

@underlined: yes

Okay, that makes sense. I think was mostly expecting it to work because I had thought of CotR as "whenever I'm in my action phase, I can call it to make actions" which was basically correct until villa and cavalry and it only matters for cavalry.

Why would Cavalry be different than Villa there? The key is that CotR is a normal triggered ability just like Tunnel or Moat... you can only use the ability exactly when it says you can.

The question never came up with Villa, because Villa also gives you +1 Action when you gain it, but Cavalry can return you to your Action phase but without the ability to actually play any Action cards.

Villa also directly went to your hand, Cavalry doesn't.

If you have an Action leftover, then when you go back from Buy phase to Action phase, you can call the CotR when you play your next Action. But you need to have 1 action leftover (I made the mistake of spending all my actions during Menagerie previews week, and got a nasty surprise when I wasn't able to play an Action to trigger Coin's reaction.)
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Re: Dominion: Menagerie
« Reply #173 on: March 30, 2020, 01:58:23 pm »
0

If you play an action, then return to your buy phase spending coin of the realm, then buy cavalry, are you supposed to be able to call coin from your mat? Or is that not "directly after you play an action"?

What do you mean by "return to your buy phase"? Do you just mean move onto your buy phase? It is definitely too late to call CotR; you cannot do anything between playing the action and calling CotR other than something else that triggers on finishing playing an action, like calling another CotR. Even if you already had CotR on your Tavern Mat and didn't involve any buying Calvary and returning to your action phase shenanigans, you can't play an action, then move to your buy phase, then call CotR. You can only call CotR in the same phase in which you played the action you are triggering off of.

@underlined: yes

Okay, that makes sense. I think was mostly expecting it to work because I had thought of CotR as "whenever I'm in my action phase, I can call it to make actions" which was basically correct until villa and cavalry and it only matters for cavalry.

Why would Cavalry be different than Villa there? The key is that CotR is a normal triggered ability just like Tunnel or Moat... you can only use the ability exactly when it says you can.

The question never came up with Villa, because Villa also gives you +1 Action when you gain it, but Cavalry can return you to your Action phase but without the ability to actually play any Action cards.

Villa also directly went to your hand, Cavalry doesn't.

If you have an Action leftover, then when you go back from Buy phase to Action phase, you can call the CotR when you play your next Action. But you need to have 1 action leftover (I made the mistake of spending all my actions during Menagerie previews week, and got a nasty surprise when I wasn't able to play an Action to trigger Coin's reaction.)

Yeah, I did realize that after the game. I could have done it, too; I didn't need to play the first action
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