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Author Topic: I suspect this is broken...  (Read 470 times)

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somekindoftony

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I suspect this is broken...
« on: December 21, 2019, 06:55:32 am »
+1

This is part of a Victorian era themed set I am working on. You can see the cards here. https://imgur.com/a/mJNyx3c
None have been playtested as I dont sleeve cards so I will have to look into stickers and whether they will work.
But here's the card I am particularly worried might break games.


It is a card whose only benefit is when you buy it but my worry is that you can empty the whole of this pile and a pile of 1 cost cards (like Poorhouse) with no money. You wont win just by doing this but if you were ahead it could end the game. Is this a problem balanced by the fun possibilities of the card?
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segura

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Re: I suspect this is broken...
« Reply #1 on: December 21, 2019, 09:04:00 am »
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This is part of a Victorian era themed set I am working on. You can see the cards here. https://imgur.com/a/mJNyx3c
None have been playtested as I dont sleeve cards so I will have to look into stickers and whether they will work.
But here's the card I am particularly worried might break games.


It is a card whose only benefit is when you buy it but my worry is that you can empty the whole of this pile and a pile of 1 cost cards (like Poorhouse) with no money. You wont win just by doing this but if you were ahead it could end the game. Is this a problem balanced by the fun possibilities of the card?
Cost reduction is a larger issue than Poor House. With 2 Highways in play, you can empty the entire Ragamuffin pile, net gain 10 Buys and 10 Coins and then empty the Estate pile.
Even without cost reduction, every player can (most likely in his last turn) empty the pile and buy one Province and an Estate.

Perhaps this leads to interesting endgame play but to me it feels like a very "switchy" thing: doing so is normally bad (you might arguably buy one to spike) but once the last turn approaches this suddenly changes from crappy to brilliant, without much of an intermediate space.


About the other cards, Banker looks very interesting. I like this Remodel variant a lot, the Debt thing is a smooth mechanism to implement "pay to Remodel".
While Hoodlums reduces your handsize as well, the non-terminal Attacks is nonetheless too nasty. The Attack in and of itself is arguably harsher than that of Torturer.
Nurse looks fine.
Not sure about Enforcer. Attacks with implemented Moats are very centralizing.
Workhouse looks very strong. Hard to imagine when you would not open with it.
Coppers as cantrip Attack is as dubious as Hoodlums.
Tannery looks like a fine and balanced implentation of the rare +2 Cards +2 Coins idea.
Trinket absolutely needs to cost more than $0.
Hammer Time is weakish. +3 Cards +1 Buy is already roughly a $5 (Margrave, Tragic Hero) so there is no need to nerf it.
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Marcory

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Re: I suspect this is broken...
« Reply #2 on: December 21, 2019, 09:53:03 am »
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Besides what Segura said, this is pretty much strictly superior to Borrow.
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spineflu

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Re: I suspect this is broken...
« Reply #3 on: December 21, 2019, 10:08:53 am »
+2

on top of what segura said about Coppers, you might want to pick a different name to avoid confusion with "Copper", especially in the presence of cards like Counting House, Fountain, Silos, Cache, or Apothecary.

You could probably make Ragamuffin less of an "immediately 3-pile the board" card if you have the pile face-down except for the top (like Knights) and only turn up the next card at the end of your turn. Or have it be "if this is the first time you gained a Ragamuffin this turn, [rest of card text]".
« Last Edit: December 21, 2019, 10:11:57 am by spineflu »
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segura

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Re: I suspect this is broken...
« Reply #4 on: December 22, 2019, 04:03:34 am »
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One could combine Marcory's point that this is similar to Borrow (relative to extra Buy at the cost of a dead card in your deck) with spineflu's "once per turn" restriction and make an Event out of it (to save physical cards).
For example: "Once per turn: +2 Buys, +1 Coin, gain a Ruins."

But it is arguable whether this is dissimilar enough from Borrow to be worthwhile it.
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somekindoftony

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Re: I suspect this is broken...
« Reply #5 on: December 22, 2019, 07:36:00 am »
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Or have it be "if this is the first time you gained a Ragamuffin this turn, [rest of card text]".

I like this solution.

I agree with what segura said about Hoodlums and Coppers (whatever it gets called). There is a real risk with having them non-terminal. More so with Hoodlums perhaps. Would it be any kind of fix if you gained the ruins to your hand as happens with Torturer?
However...
Hammer Time is weakish. +3 Cards +1 Buy is already roughly a $5 (Margrave, Tragic Hero) so there is no need to nerf it.
I am not sure if you thought Hammertime (more of a joke card anyway) gave Gold to each other player. Its intended to give it to all players including the one playing the card. In that way Hammertime I thought strengthens itself. In a deck of golds is there a better card than one which draws cards and gives you an extra buy? But I do wonder if its strong enough. After all its only +1 Buy better in effect than a smithy unless you see the gaining gold for everyone as a net benefit.

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spineflu

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Re: I suspect this is broken...
« Reply #6 on: December 22, 2019, 12:05:00 pm »
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re: nonterminal attacks -
you could introduce a journey token esque mechanic - say, an Aggression token (for each player).
Have its rules be "Each player gets an Aggression token, which starts face-down. If this is face up, when you play an Attack card, other players are unaffected by it. Flip this face-down at the start of your turn."
and then have the non-terminal powerful attacks flip your Aggression token face-up.
Borrows the wording from Moat for how it interacts with other players and lets you keep the attacks as cantrips or villages or whatever.
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