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Author Topic: BM29: Bud Idea Mafia (MAFIA WIN!)  (Read 103377 times)

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cayvie

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Re: BM29: Bud Idea Mafia (Day 2)
« Reply #675 on: February 18, 2020, 06:06:23 pm »

Mass redirectors sounds really bad, because they all have to claim for anything to make sense, which means you can add a lot of chaos by one fakeclaim. Sure, it's better than VT, but...

see, the night is mafia time, and i think adding as much chaos to the night as possible hurts mafia and helps town.

like, if there was a role that said "if you activate your role, all targets for night actions will be target random players tonight" wouldn't you want to use that role every time?

the absolute best thing that can happen at night is that mafia shoots mafia. imo the benefits of a chance of that happening far far outweighs the risk of town night actions getting confusing results.
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cayvie

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Re: BM29: Bud Idea Mafia (Day 2)
« Reply #676 on: February 18, 2020, 06:11:13 pm »

Yeah, Glooble's scum.

Does anyone want a case? It kinda spells itself out. Read his day 2, you'll understand.

i reread his day2, i wouldn't mind seeing your case. most of my scumfeels toward Glooble are from day 1.
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MiX

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Re: BM29: Bud Idea Mafia (Day 2)
« Reply #677 on: February 18, 2020, 06:11:31 pm »

Mass redirectors sounds really bad, because they all have to claim for anything to make sense, which means you can add a lot of chaos by one fakeclaim. Sure, it's better than VT, but...

see, the night is mafia time, and i think adding as much chaos to the night as possible hurts mafia and helps town.

like, if there was a role that said "if you activate your role, all targets for night actions will be target random players tonight" wouldn't you want to use that role every time?

the absolute best thing that can happen at night is that mafia shoots mafia. imo the benefits of a chance of that happening far far outweighs the risk of town night actions getting confusing results.

If you don't make mafia shoot mafia, then it's not helping. And scum must have some way of avoiding this, or even turn it to their advance. For example, we learned that you can multiply targets with redirects, which means scum can NK everyone if enough redirectors want them to.

It's better than VT, but the value of each redirector decreases with quantity, not increases.

Yeah, Glooble's scum.

Does anyone want a case? It kinda spells itself out. Read his day 2, you'll understand.

i reread his day2, i wouldn't mind seeing your case. most of my scumfeels toward Glooble are from day 1.

Okay I was probably gonna do it anyway.
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shraeye

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Re: BM29: Bud Idea Mafia (Day 2)
« Reply #678 on: February 18, 2020, 06:24:48 pm »

That said, if we decide that lynching town is fun, I’m a good one. We won’t miss another redirector.

am i the only one in this game who sees redirectors as increasing in value the more we have?
I hear what you're saying, but disagree wholeheartedly with the conclusion
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shraeye

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Re: BM29: Bud Idea Mafia (Day 2)
« Reply #679 on: February 18, 2020, 06:33:34 pm »

See, redirecting scum onto scum requires a) that we know scum and b) that scum don't have a redirector that can break the "loop" or something that works around redirects.

And if we know a) then just lynch the baddies and win...don't try to build a crazy possibly-non-functional and at worst scum-manipulable machine.
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raerae

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Re: BM29: Bud Idea Mafia (Day 2)
« Reply #680 on: February 18, 2020, 06:33:50 pm »

Why is everybody saying shraeye's town? He's done a whole lot of not very much.
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cayvie

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Re: BM29: Bud Idea Mafia (Day 2)
« Reply #681 on: February 18, 2020, 06:45:49 pm »

See, redirecting scum onto scum requires a) that we know scum and b) that scum don't have a redirector that can break the "loop" or something that works around redirects.

And if we know a) then just lynch the baddies and win...don't try to build a crazy possibly-non-functional and at worst scum-manipulable machine.

naw it just requires guessing well.
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cayvie

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Re: BM29: Bud Idea Mafia (Day 2)
« Reply #682 on: February 18, 2020, 06:49:19 pm »

See, redirecting scum onto scum requires a) that we know scum and b) that scum don't have a redirector that can break the "loop" or something that works around redirects.

And if we know a) then just lynch the baddies and win...don't try to build a crazy possibly-non-functional and at worst scum-manipulable machine.

naw it just requires guessing well.

i just think the more chaos we add to night actions, that hurts mafia more than it does town.
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MiX

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Re: BM29: Bud Idea Mafia (Day 2)
« Reply #683 on: February 18, 2020, 06:51:19 pm »

See, redirecting scum onto scum requires a) that we know scum and b) that scum don't have a redirector that can break the "loop" or something that works around redirects.

And if we know a) then just lynch the baddies and win...don't try to build a crazy possibly-non-functional and at worst scum-manipulable machine.

naw it just requires guessing well.

i just think the more chaos we add to night actions, that hurts mafia more than it does town.

2 town redirectors is better than 1, that doesn't mean they scale upwards.
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pubby

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Re: BM29: Bud Idea Mafia (Day 2)
« Reply #684 on: February 18, 2020, 07:14:36 pm »

Can't re-directors also multiply the number of night-kills?
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cayvie

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Re: BM29: Bud Idea Mafia (Day 2)
« Reply #685 on: February 18, 2020, 07:19:17 pm »

Can't re-directors also multiply the number of night-kills?

redirectors can add 1. i don't believe the number of nightkills can be greater than (NK + R - 1) where NK = number of nightkill actions and R = number of redirectors.
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WestCoastDidds

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Re: BM29: Bud Idea Mafia (Day 2)
« Reply #686 on: February 18, 2020, 07:25:38 pm »

I did nothing of note last night, unfortunately. I’ll let y’all know if any future events make whatever I did last night relevant.
I think we might be at that point, man.  you are no longer "not involved"
Ari has also done very little this game, which seems lurky scum. Which is probably why 2 people redirected targets onto ari last night (assuming of course that WCD actually did and they aren't lying scum)

I redirected pubby to raerae. That is what I said earlier, too.

You redirected me.
Cayvie redirected raerae to Ari.
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MiX

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Re: BM29: Bud Idea Mafia (Day 2)
« Reply #687 on: February 18, 2020, 07:28:25 pm »

I did nothing of note last night, unfortunately. I’ll let y’all know if any future events make whatever I did last night relevant.
I think we might be at that point, man.  you are no longer "not involved"
Ari has also done very little this game, which seems lurky scum. Which is probably why 2 people redirected targets onto ari last night (assuming of course that WCD actually did and they aren't lying scum)

I redirected pubby to raerae. That is what I said earlier, too.

You redirected me.
Cayvie redirected raerae to Ari.

And Joseph redirected you to ari. Why did you bring this up again?
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arishipshape

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Re: BM29: Bud Idea Mafia (Day 2)
« Reply #688 on: February 18, 2020, 07:28:46 pm »

And I REALLY want to know what Ari thinks about his possibly being redirected to Galz, possibly to raerae, possibly to both, or neither.

If I was redirected, it’s most likely irrelevant. I’ll gladly claim and say what I did if the town demands it, but for now I’m not seeing a benefit.
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WestCoastDidds

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Re: BM29: Bud Idea Mafia (Day 2)
« Reply #689 on: February 18, 2020, 07:33:13 pm »

I redirected pubby to raerae. That is what I said earlier, too.

You redirected me.
Cayvie redirected raerae to Ari.

And Joseph redirected you to ari. Why did you bring this up again?

Joseph said “ Which is probably why 2 people redirected targets onto ari last night (assuming of course that WCD actually did and they aren't lying scum)” so I was clarifying what I did. I didn’t redirect Ari.
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WestCoastDidds

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Re: BM29: Bud Idea Mafia (Day 2)
« Reply #690 on: February 18, 2020, 07:35:06 pm »

And I REALLY want to know what Ari thinks about his possibly being redirected to Galz, possibly to raerae, possibly to both, or neither.

If I was redirected, it’s most likely irrelevant. I’ll gladly claim and say what I did if the town demands it, but for now I’m not seeing a benefit.

I don’t have an opinion on you claiming, necessarily, but you were not redirected according to current claims
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MiX

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Re: BM29: Bud Idea Mafia (Day 2)
« Reply #691 on: February 18, 2020, 07:36:49 pm »

And I REALLY want to know what Ari thinks about his possibly being redirected to Galz, possibly to raerae, possibly to both, or neither.

If I was redirected, it’s most likely irrelevant. I’ll gladly claim and say what I did if the town demands it, but for now I’m not seeing a benefit.

I don’t have an opinion on you claiming, necessarily, but you were not redirected according to current claims

Since Joseph redirected you to ari, it means you redirected ari to raerae. I think that's what Joseph was talking about, although he probably had forgotten who redirected INTO ari.
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WestCoastDidds

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Re: BM29: Bud Idea Mafia (Day 2)
« Reply #692 on: February 18, 2020, 07:38:10 pm »

i just think the more chaos we add to night actions, that hurts mafia more than it does town.

Agreed. I think chaos f’s with mafia more than us. I definitely chose to redirect lwith chaos in mind.
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WestCoastDidds

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Re: BM29: Bud Idea Mafia (Day 2)
« Reply #693 on: February 18, 2020, 07:39:02 pm »

And I REALLY want to know what Ari thinks about his possibly being redirected to Galz, possibly to raerae, possibly to both, or neither.

If I was redirected, it’s most likely irrelevant. I’ll gladly claim and say what I did if the town demands it, but for now I’m not seeing a benefit.

I don’t have an opinion on you claiming, necessarily, but you were not redirected according to current claims

Since Joseph redirected you to ari, it means you redirected ari to raerae. I think that's what Joseph was talking about, although he probably had forgotten who redirected INTO ari.

Ah, got it. I thought I was at the start of the chain, but that was from my hazy weekend days
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MiX

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Re: BM29: Bud Idea Mafia (Day 2)
« Reply #694 on: February 18, 2020, 08:03:33 pm »

Let's see if I can make a case...

I think redirectors should stop claiming as we’re making it really easy for scum to find our remaining non-redirector roles by POE.

Throwaway line, "hey everyone stop claiming because I don't want to claim". Null, but it's weird that he said nothing else until a day had passed.

This is extremely confusing.

My usual go-to is to believe investigative role claims and then lynch them the next day I’d they’re lying. BUT what’s scummy about raerae’s claim of a result on caucus is she left herself an out - “unless someone redirected cayvie” but claims that’s the *only* out, which, given that we know the game is full of redirectors, seems like a tough pill to swallow.

That being said, it seems to me that all of the normal investigative roles would be basically useless in this setup, so it would make sense for mail-mi to give us some kind of cop or watcher that cuts through all the redirection.

All that being said, I think scum raerae would claim here. I know it’s widow, but I think the best bet for now is:

Vote: cayvie

Confused, sure, aren't we all. Then distrusts raerae's claim because it leads her an out (not really?). Immediately after gives her a possible claim, out of the blue with nothing saying this, votes cayvie for thinking scum raerae would claim...which sounds naive. I think raerae plays the stubborn game for fun, and she would do it regardless of alignment. Seems jumpy to come to conclusions and to justify their vote.

Raerae could be a modified watcher who sees the final target rather than the initial target. That would make some sense in a game full of redirectors. I guess if that’s true then it’s still possible cayvie is town and her redirect was redirected to Galzria.

Straight up gives her a claim. Why? Raerae could be a lot of different things, and theorizing about what she is is scum's objective, town just wants the full claim or nothing, not this.

Any information I could add at this point would help scum much more than it would help town.

Easiest post ever, but it's not wrong. Null.

Okay, cayvie. I'm convinced. Your scenario seems more likely.

vote: raerae

"I'm convinced", that easy, instantly moves votes. No explanation of anything. I went through the same, but I was trying to explore it from every scenario, Glooble just takes cayvie's explanation and runs with it onto another wagon.

What tale am I weaving? cayvie has made ALL the speculation, I just said she killed Galz. Why is that unbelievable? And we've already talked about how we should stop making claims and giving scum targets so is so crazy that I took that advice? What am I actually being lynched for right now? Can anybody answer that?


It's hard to come up with a role that would allow you to know that with any certyainty given the nature of the game as it has been revealed to us so far. You've refused to claim your role, which would allow us to understand how you are able to know what you claim to know. You left yourself a very specific out for if cayvie flips town (oops, guess the scum redirector targeted her), which is a scummy thing to do when claiming an investigative role.

"It's hard to come up with a role that would let you claim what you did except I just did a while back". This makes sense from anyone else except Glooble who has given a specific example that works. Still talking about an out, even thought everyone has that out ("I was redirected!") if they say nothing. A specific out is definitely less scummy than a general out.

So here's the thing. Our doctor is dead, yes. But with 4+ redirectors running around, there's absolutely no guarantee scum will kill who they want to kill. So it's not like raerae dies 100% if she claims.

He's right, but also a way to make raerae not be targetted by redirectors. Could be partners, although given his last vote was on raerae I doubt it right now.

There's totally a reason to do that if you're scum. It got a bunch more redirectors to claim. It earns you town cred. It lets you obfuscate night action conversations.

There's a reason to do it as scum, but it doesn't really earn town cred. And it doesn't really change night action conversations much, remember that at this point scum didn't know there were more redirectors. A single redirector claim would look scummy and most likely forces them to claim their targets before anyone else claims. You can argue that scum might know there's a redirector based on the flip, but it doesn't look like the Galzria kill was redirected based on all of the claims so far. This is sorta null, but I don't think Glooble's right here.

I disagree. That would be a reason to tag on, but not to initiate. Initiating the discussion has led to a fruitful day of conversation, as opposed to the nothingburger days that scum enjoys.


It's lead to a ton of claims. That's a great outcome for scum.

The only extra claim was Joseph, raerae and cayvie would've done this anyway. You can count the non-redirector claims as claims too, but as I said before, scum might've not known that there were more redirectors.

Assuming scum wants to lynch someone more powerful than a redirector, they now have a much higher chance of guessing who that is. It's like a VT claim in a regular game.

And saying lynch here instead of NK is null: both town and scum are thinking about today's lynch, town because that's how they kill and scum because that's how they kill this day.


That's my case, some scummy things, some null things...nothing truly towny. I'm going to bed, I should look at day 1 again tomorrow.
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shraeye

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Re: BM29: Bud Idea Mafia (Day 2)
« Reply #695 on: February 18, 2020, 08:12:19 pm »

And I REALLY want to know what Ari thinks about his possibly being redirected to Galz, possibly to raerae, possibly to both, or neither.

If I was redirected, it’s most likely irrelevant. I’ll gladly claim and say what I did if the town demands it, but for now I’m not seeing a benefit.
But the redirections presumably went to raerae who is definitely a person of interest, or possibly to galz, who is also definitely a person of interest.  So, did you kill galz? Did you track/cop/neighborize raerae? Did you fruit-vend?  Did you learn anything, do anything, or have something that can help corroborate??

A lot of people are accusing a lot of people about lying, I'm struggling to see the list of things not worth mentioning in this scenario.  I mean, it's your role, but you seem to not be super interested in weighing in on an issue that you might very well be able to clarify.
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cayvie

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Re: BM29: Bud Idea Mafia (Day 2)
« Reply #696 on: February 18, 2020, 09:14:12 pm »

Why is everybody saying shraeye's town? He's done a whole lot of not very much.

do you have a scumread on him?
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raerae

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Re: BM29: Bud Idea Mafia (Day 2)
« Reply #697 on: February 18, 2020, 10:08:12 pm »

Why is everybody saying shraeye's town? He's done a whole lot of not very much.

do you have a scumread on him?

Nope, I haven't seen enough for me to label him anything which leads to my confusion.
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cayvie

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Re: BM29: Bud Idea Mafia (Day 2)
« Reply #698 on: February 19, 2020, 01:18:02 am »

You're scum that faked a result after raerae voted for you? Sorry, but I already said that before, maybe you missed it because it's so short.

No one's making that case because it's extremely weak. Like, sure, you can say it, but why would you trust raerae? And that's not an easy answer, as I've seen.

I mean it's certainly false, but if I were scum!raerae's bud, and i saw her fake an investigation, and then get that turned back around on her without me getting lynched, I feel like I'd come to her defense and at least be like "look, it's cayvie's word against raerae's, general policy when Results come up is to lynch the target of the investigation, and then look back at the investigator tomorrow if cayvie flips town"

and nobody did that, not really, even though raerae got to L-1 and L-2 (with bonus threatened self-hammer!) on separate occasions. which leads me to believe that raerae doesn't have scumbuddies.

which in turn leads me to vote: arishipshape.
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Joseph2302

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Re: BM29: Bud Idea Mafia (Day 2)
« Reply #699 on: February 19, 2020, 02:22:13 am »

I redirected pubby to raerae. That is what I said earlier, too.

You redirected me.
Cayvie redirected raerae to Ari.

And Joseph redirected you to ari. Why did you bring this up again?

Joseph said “ Which is probably why 2 people redirected targets onto ari last night (assuming of course that WCD actually did and they aren't lying scum)” so I was clarifying what I did. I didn’t redirect Ari.
Yep, got my people mixed up, sorry
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Mafia Stats: (correct as of 2017)
Town: 22 games, 8 wins
Scum: 5 games, 3 wins
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