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Author Topic: BM27: Bad Idea Mafia- Game Over, Everyone Loses!  (Read 170062 times)

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raerae

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Re: BM27: Bad Idea Mafia (Day Five)
« Reply #1400 on: December 07, 2019, 11:09:03 am »

Galz, come back to the land of the living and give us some deets please.
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Galzria

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Re: BM27: Bad Idea Mafia (Day Five)
« Reply #1401 on: December 07, 2019, 01:56:09 pm »

Galz, come back to the land of the living and give us some deets please.

Sorry - busy days! I'm walking out to work right now, so I'll try to just get this out there so that you can all discuss at leisure:

- Night 1 I obviously targeted faust, received a Guilty result.

- Night 2 I targeted Bright - He had claimed credit for a kill from Night 1, and I figured it would be a good idea to check and see if he was lying about his role/alignment. Received No Result. I assumed I was RB'd, given my claim from Day 2, but certainly there were other reasons I could've received No Result. Still, those seemed slim.

- Night 3 I targeted Joseph, as I was searching for Space's partner (apparently along with everybody else!), and again received No Result. This, given Joseph's flip, confirmed the existence of a RB (nothing else could've given me a No Result when targeting him).

- Night 4 I targeted Bright again. I have more or less town read him the entire game, but SO MANY of you have been hounding him that I figured it was worth another check, and I figured he would be a "safer" player to target - that is, less likely to be shot by Shraeye/LaLight if either of them were telling the truth (in light of Eevee's flip, my highest suspicions for who to shoot to find Mafia were: Datswan, Raerae, Eddie, Mail-Mi, in about that order). Bright came back as Not Guilty.

This has two implications: First, it means Bright is town. More importantly, it means that I was NOT blocked last night. My guess is that Mail-Mi was, and that LaLight is still, in fact, a SK. But I do not know this to be true.

So what I think right now is that we have:

Galzria: Town
Bright: Town
LaLight: SK (or town)
Eddie: Survivor (or Mafia/WW)
Raerae: Mafia/WW (or town)

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Quote from: Voltgloss
Derphammering is when quickhammers go derp.

Faust has also been incredibly stubborn this game. In other news, it's hot in the summer, and water falls from the sky when it rains.


Mafia Record:
TOWN Wins: M3, M5, M6, M11, M17, M28, M32, M105, M108, M114, M118, M120, M122, DM1, DoM1, OZ2, RM45, RM47, RM48, RM49, RM55
TOWN Losses: M4, M7, M8, M9, M13, M14, M18, M31, M110, M111, M113, M117, M125, RM3, RM4, RM54
SCUM Wins: M2, M19, M23, M100, DM3, RM1, RM2, RM48, RM50
SCUM Losses: M15 (SK), M102 (Tr), OZ1, RM55

Total Wins: 30
Total Losses: 20

Galzria

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Re: BM27: Bad Idea Mafia (Day Five)
« Reply #1402 on: December 07, 2019, 01:56:41 pm »

Got to go!

I'll check in after work - about 5-6 hours from now.
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Quote from: Voltgloss
Derphammering is when quickhammers go derp.

Faust has also been incredibly stubborn this game. In other news, it's hot in the summer, and water falls from the sky when it rains.


Mafia Record:
TOWN Wins: M3, M5, M6, M11, M17, M28, M32, M105, M108, M114, M118, M120, M122, DM1, DoM1, OZ2, RM45, RM47, RM48, RM49, RM55
TOWN Losses: M4, M7, M8, M9, M13, M14, M18, M31, M110, M111, M113, M117, M125, RM3, RM4, RM54
SCUM Wins: M2, M19, M23, M100, DM3, RM1, RM2, RM48, RM50
SCUM Losses: M15 (SK), M102 (Tr), OZ1, RM55

Total Wins: 30
Total Losses: 20

raerae

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Re: BM27: Bad Idea Mafia (Day Five)
« Reply #1403 on: December 07, 2019, 03:16:12 pm »

Well, hell.

Unvote
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LaLight

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Re: BM27: Bad Idea Mafia (Day Five)
« Reply #1404 on: December 07, 2019, 03:54:23 pm »

Raerae it is then.
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raerae

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Re: BM27: Bad Idea Mafia (Day Five)
« Reply #1405 on: December 07, 2019, 04:57:10 pm »

This isn't going to be well-organized but I've got to get some thoughts down.

LL doesn't benefit from lying IF he's SK.  If he wasn't cured, he just says so, we assume a roleblocker or that mail-mi went rogue and we kill somebody else.  He does benefit if he's NOT the SK, so LL and Eddie(?) are baddies, one roleblocks, the other kills?

Galz is lying.  Again, no benefit unless Bright is his partner and then it seems like a stretch of a benefit.  Nobody suspects him, he's lynching his buddy, maintains his town cred, survives another day, lynches me or Eddie or more likely LL and wins.  If Galz and Eddie are buddies I've already said I'd give them the win so they just had to vote with me and that's that so I'll take that pairing off the table.

There are just too many kills.  I know I didn't kill anybody, I don't think Galz killed anybody, if Galz is telling the truth then Bright didn't kill anybody so this is more or less how it has to be.
DatSwan has been killed! He was a Mafia Goon! - shraeye
mail-mi has been killed! He was a Town Psychiatrist! - LL
shraeye has been killed! He was a Town Vigilante! - Eddie

But why block mail-mi at all if LL isn't a SK?  Isn't Galz always the obvious block?  Better question, why is Galz still alive if he's such a threat?
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raerae

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Re: BM27: Bad Idea Mafia (Day Five)
« Reply #1406 on: December 07, 2019, 05:06:02 pm »

Bright, you've analyzed this game left, right, and center.  What other options could there be if roleblocker isn't real?
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raerae

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Re: BM27: Bad Idea Mafia (Day Five)
« Reply #1407 on: December 07, 2019, 05:08:23 pm »

Eddie, I'm afraid you're going to have to chime in, bud.
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Uncleeurope

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Re: BM27: Bad Idea Mafia (Day Five)
« Reply #1408 on: December 07, 2019, 06:16:42 pm »

And say what? I haven’t had to think about the game in the same wavelength as any of you people.

All I have is who I think is bad at this moment with little info or knowledge or schematics to back it up.

I could reveal that, but what is the point?

If I am right and we lynch them, then them losing has nothing to do with town figuring it out, which wouldn’t feel great.

I could lie about who I think it is, but it’s the same problem. I don’t want to kingmake here.

I would rather just make a statement that I will vote for the player with the most votes after X time has passed and be done with it. That way you guys can sort it out.
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raerae

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Re: BM27: Bad Idea Mafia (Day Five)
« Reply #1409 on: December 07, 2019, 07:12:52 pm »

And say what? I haven’t had to think about the game in the same wavelength as any of you people.

All I have is who I think is bad at this moment with little info or knowledge or schematics to back it up.

I could reveal that, but what is the point?

If I am right and we lynch them, then them losing has nothing to do with town figuring it out, which wouldn’t feel great.

I could lie about who I think it is, but it’s the same problem. I don’t want to kingmake here.

I would rather just make a statement that I will vote for the player with the most votes after X time has passed and be done with it. That way you guys can sort it out.

If you really are a survivor then you have a unique view on the game. You're essentially an unbiased third party who can give clean reads. Why would you not want to do that if it truly doesn't matter to you who wins?
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Uncleeurope

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Re: BM27: Bad Idea Mafia (Day Five)
« Reply #1410 on: December 07, 2019, 08:11:29 pm »

I don’t want to influence who wins if I don’t have to.
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raerae

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Re: BM27: Bad Idea Mafia (Day Five)
« Reply #1411 on: December 07, 2019, 08:40:33 pm »

LL, why am I scum? If you're cured then mail-mi wasn't blocked, we have seen a roleblocker flip, so what's the deal?
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Brightgalrs

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Re: BM27: Bad Idea Mafia (Day Five)
« Reply #1412 on: December 07, 2019, 10:50:19 pm »

- Night 4 I targeted Bright again. I have more or less town read him the entire game, but SO MANY of you have been hounding him that I figured it was worth another check, and I figured he would be a "safer" player to target - that is, less likely to be shot by Shraeye/LaLight if either of them were telling the truth (in light of Eevee's flip, my highest suspicions for who to shoot to find Mafia were: Datswan, Raerae, Eddie, Mail-Mi, in about that order). Bright came back as Not Guilty.
I believe it when you say you weren't roleblocked. From the roleblocker's perspective, one of the scum kills was certainly headed your way, so why waste the roleblock on you. Instead either shraeye or mail-mi would've been worthwhile targets.

On the result, good, good. But also I wish it was a guilty on raerae or LaLight (the Natural Action Resolution would've had investigation come last, checking if the curing went through).



There are a lot of possibilities, but I keep coming back to these scenarios:
  • LaLight is a WW roleblocker.
  • raerae is Mafia, LaLight is a WW roleblocker.
  • raerae is WW, LaLight is a Mafia roleblocker.
  • Uncleeurope is a WW roleblocker.
  • Uncleeurope is a WW roleblocker, LaLight is a SK.
  • raerae is Mafia, and Uncleeurope is the WW roleblocker.
  • raerae is Mafia, and Uncleeurope is the WW roleblocker, LaLight is a SK.
  • raerae is WW, and Uncleeurope is the Mafia roleblocker.
  • raerae is WW, and Uncleeurope is the Mafia roleblocker, LaLight is a SK.
Under 5,7,9, where LaLight really is a SK, mail-mi was roleblocked last night, and LaLight is still a SK. And of course they'd act like they were cured and are town, that's the only way they can still win the game.

For scenarios 7,9, where LaLight is still a SK because of roleblocking, then I'm pretty sure the Town can't win. It'd just be me and Galz vs 3 scum. We'd lynch 1, and then we are both taken out in the night, game over, with a scum-scum tie. Or I suppose the scum could shoot each other, but it's a toss-up, and much more likely that one scum comes out on top than the town winning.

For scenarios 2,3, where Uncle is a survivor, it's a toss-up on who wins. Even if we lynch correctly, either raerae or LaLight, then either Galz or me will die in the night, leaving 1 survivor, 1 scum, 1 town. Uncleeurope would be the king-maker, deciding who wins.

I'm going to rule out these impossible/dicey scenarios.

The final list of scenarios where the Town is likely to win:
  • LaLight is a WW roleblocker.
  • Uncleeurope is a WW roleblocker.
  • Uncleeurope is a WW roleblocker, LaLight is a SK.
  • raerae is Mafia, and Uncleeurope is the WW roleblocker.
  • raerae is WW, and Uncleeurope is the Mafia roleblocker.

I'd leaning towards just lynching Uncle today. If that first scenario is the actual truth, where Uncle is actually a Survivor, we'll still have tomorrow to lynch LaLight instead.

On the other hand, going back to the scenarios I rejected, lynching Uncle would screw us in the toss-up-king-maker-survivor scenarios. There'd be no king-maker survivor, no 50/50 town win, the town would lose outright.



Mail-mi's death.

Why on Earth was mail-mi killed last night? mail-mi's cure was going to go through no matter if they died or not, this was established yesterday. And killing them over Galz or shraeye is pretty questionable.
There is the possibility is they were killed so they couldn't say if they were roleblocked or not. But we established yesterday that they don't get confirmations if their ability is successful or not. Does that carry over into knowing if their ability went through?

Mod question: Does a roleblocked Psychiatrist that uses their ability get told if they are roleblocked?

If so, this could point to the roleblocker both roleblocking and killing mail-mi last night. (And that LaLight is still a SK). But again see above, the only scenario where LaLight is a SK and the Town is likely to win, Uncleeurope is the roleblocker, and we should probably still lynch them first.



Aliens.

If LaLight was never a SK to begin with (scenarios 1,2,3), then the Aliens are likely still around, but they likely used their kill on Night 3. So basically they are Survivors that we need to eventually lynch, we'll cross that bridge if we ever encounter it.

It's also possible that.. well my head hurts from thinking about this. Assume there's no Alien! Or assume if there is, and they have their kill, the Town is screwed anyway.
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Brightgalrs

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Re: BM27: Bad Idea Mafia (Day Five)
« Reply #1413 on: December 07, 2019, 11:03:16 pm »

Quote
But again see above, the only scenario where LaLight is a SK and the Town is likely to win, Uncleeurope is the roleblocker, and we should probably still lynch them first.
When I say "LaLight is a SK" I'm talking about currently, like they are a SK and were never actually cured.

That also goes for the list of possibilities. If a scenario doesn't mention LaLight, then they are cured and Town.
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A Drowned Kernel

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Re: BM27: Bad Idea Mafia (Day Five)
« Reply #1414 on: December 07, 2019, 11:08:04 pm »

Mod question: Does a roleblocked Psychiatrist that uses their ability get told if they are roleblocked?

No
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Re: BM27: Bad Idea Mafia (Day Five)
« Reply #1415 on: December 07, 2019, 11:11:38 pm »

One last thing, @LaLight

LaLight, you didn't happen to think mail-mi's curing wouldn't go through, for whatever reason (didn't believe them, thought they would be roleblocked), so you killed last night using the SK part of your brain (killing mail-mi or shraeye), but then today you found out  you actually were cured, and finding yourself in a position where you have to explain why you killed mail-mi/shraeye, you simply said you killed DatSwan. You didn't do that did you? Because under that hypothetical scenario, you're Town and you're making the Town think there is one more scum then there really is.

Anyway, just checking...

Also what type of bulletproofing did you have, it's probably safe to say it now seeing as you're basically a Vanilla Townie.
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Brightgalrs

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Re: BM27: Bad Idea Mafia (Day Five)
« Reply #1416 on: December 07, 2019, 11:18:55 pm »

Mod question: Does a roleblocked Psychiatrist that uses their ability get told if they are roleblocked?

No
Alright well I'm utterly confused why mail-mi was killed last night then. Either whoever killed mail-mi thought they were actually scum, or they killed mail-mi simply to confuse us.

But I still think lynching Uncle is the safest bet. Uncle claimed survivor, and it might have been their strategy to nullify Galz's investigation (who only gets Town/Not-Town). If they are the scum roleblocker, then it might have actually helped them to un-roleblock Galz for last night, seeing as Galz would investigate literally anybody except them.
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Brightgalrs

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Re: BM27: Bad Idea Mafia (Day Five)
« Reply #1417 on: December 07, 2019, 11:29:50 pm »

Bright, you've analyzed this game left, right, and center.  What other options could there be if roleblocker isn't real?
If the roleblocker isn't real then Galz is lying and they are actually an Alien. It's the only possible way they could've known faust was an Alien on Day 2. faust didn't have an ability, so they couldn't have been tracked or anything like that, and there's no scum cop role that uncovers Aliens.

Also if they were an Alien, they would've either said they were roleblocked again, or said someone was guilty, ie. me.
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Uncleeurope

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Re: BM27: Bad Idea Mafia (Day Five)
« Reply #1418 on: December 07, 2019, 11:40:35 pm »

Yes, but I can help you win.

You lynch me tomorrow in all cases where you are even mildly suspicious of me.

That being said, why is Galz town in all scenarios for you? Galz is either a liar or the RBer is exactly raerae who blocked MiX night he died or LaLight with Raerae as SK.

Which makes either raerae or Galz the best lynches.

Also bad teams have watchers/trackers that could have caught Faust.

Also also, I’m a survivor, dude.
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Re: BM27: Bad Idea Mafia (Day Five)
« Reply #1419 on: December 08, 2019, 12:09:32 am »

That being said, why is Galz town in all scenarios for you? Galz is either a liar or the RBer is exactly raerae who blocked MiX night he died or LaLight with Raerae as SK.
Galz says he was roleblocked on the night MiX died, rules out raerae being the roleblocker and claiming to be vanilla-ized. raerae as a vanilla-ized SK is an interesting thought. Still no night kill coming from her, so lynching her isn't going to solve our problems.

Also bad teams have watchers/trackers that could have caught Faust.
But faust didn't have an action, there's nothing to watch or track (besides carrying out their single faction kill, I suppose).

I'm keeping things simple for once, if you're a WW roleblocker everything is explained. The roleblocking, that extra unaccounted-for kill last night. The game might even end today. Also picking Survivor over Mafia Goon still doesn't sit well with me.



Hm we could also just no lynch.

If it's just the roleblocker left, one of us will die, not such a big deal. They might even let Galz investigate again.

If there are three scum, well, we probably weren't going to win anyway, might as well hope they all shoot each other to death.

The problem is the middle ground, if there are two scum left. They're  unlikely to shoot each other. And acting now, lynching one of them, is basically our only real chance of winning.

Also keep in mind that for all of these, even scum wouldn't know how much scum is left.
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Re: BM27: Bad Idea Mafia (Day Five)
« Reply #1420 on: December 08, 2019, 01:51:43 am »

One last thing, @LaLight

LaLight, you didn't happen to think mail-mi's curing wouldn't go through, for whatever reason (didn't believe them, thought they would be roleblocked), so you killed last night using the SK part of your brain (killing mail-mi or shraeye), but then today you found out  you actually were cured, and finding yourself in a position where you have to explain why you killed mail-mi/shraeye, you simply said you killed DatSwan. You didn't do that did you? Because under that hypothetical scenario, you're Town and you're making the Town think there is one more scum then there really is.

Anyway, just checking...

Also what type of bulletproofing did you have, it's probably safe to say it now seeing as you're basically a Vanilla Townie.

I didn't. We had a deal that I will kill DS and will be cured, I did exactly that and never gave it any second thought.

I was 2-shot BP
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Re: BM27: Bad Idea Mafia (Day Five)
« Reply #1421 on: December 08, 2019, 01:54:19 am »

Alright, this actually doesn't make any sense, I am only realizing it now

Mail-mi wasn't roleblocked, Galz wasn't roleblocked, then who? I wasn't (or was and shraeye killed DS, mafia killed someone, WW killed someone), mafia and WW weren't roleblocked, who the hell was?
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Re: BM27: Bad Idea Mafia (Day Five)
« Reply #1422 on: December 08, 2019, 01:54:46 am »

Mhm my head hurts really

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Re: BM27: Bad Idea Mafia (Day Five)
« Reply #1423 on: December 08, 2019, 01:56:46 am »

Just ran through the roles again. Neither Mafia nor WW have any roles that could point at Faust being an alien
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Re: BM27: Bad Idea Mafia (Day Five)
« Reply #1424 on: December 08, 2019, 01:58:18 am »

The easiest option is that raerae is a WW RB who just rbed me or shraeye and this would be an awesome scenario, we lynch her, we win
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