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Author Topic: BM27: Bad Idea Mafia- Game Over, Everyone Loses!  (Read 170070 times)

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Awaclus

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Re: BM27: Bad Idea Mafia
« Reply #100 on: November 12, 2019, 07:20:28 pm »

you guys play mafia here?

/in :)

Oh my God, hi!

I never knew Archetype was your God.
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A Drowned Kernel

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Re: BM27: Bad Idea Mafia
« Reply #101 on: November 12, 2019, 09:38:41 pm »

THREAD LOCKED, PMS GOING OUT NOW

(if you're lower on the list, give it a bit ;)
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A Drowned Kernel

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Re: BM27: Bad Idea Mafia
« Reply #102 on: November 14, 2019, 01:00:32 am »

All choices confirmed! The setup is acceptable, so Night Zero will begin now, and will end in 24 hours (1 am forum time on Friday if I'm not mistaken, 6:00 UTC)
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A Drowned Kernel

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Re: BM27: Bad Idea Mafia
« Reply #103 on: November 15, 2019, 01:01:01 am »

Day One Start

Awaclus discarded Vengeful Townie

faust discarded Werewolf Miller

pubby discarded Conspiracy Theorist

e discarded Retired Werewolf Hunter

MiX discarded Lynchbait

Joseph2302 discarded Vanilla Towni

SpaceAnemone discarded Innocent Child

WestCoastDidds discarded Underdog

Glooble discarded Mason Lover

pingpongsam discarded One-Shot Unlynchable Townie

DatSwan discarded Nurse

sudgy discarded Werewolf

Brightgalrs discarded Wrong Place at the Wrong Time Townie

mail-mi discarded Hirsute Townie

jotheonah discarded Mason

Uncleeurope discarded Mafia Goon

Galzria discarded Bodyguard

shraeye discarded Compulsive Childkiller

EFHW discarded Alien One-Shot Unlynchable

LaLight discarded Lyncher (target player below)

Eevee discarded Vanilla Townie

Raerae discarded Vanilla Townie

Archetype discarded Mafia Reflexive Doctor


Not Voting (23): Awaclus, faust, pubby, e, MiX, Joseph2302, SpaceAnemone, WestCoastDidds, Glooble, pingpongsam, DatSwan, sudgy, Brightgalrs, mail-mi, jotheonah, Uncleeurope, Galzria, shraeye, EFHW, LaLight, Eevee, raerae, Archetype

With 23 alive, it takes 12 to lynch. Day One ends at 6:00 UTC, 11/22/19.
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jotheonah

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Re: BM27: Bad Idea Mafia
« Reply #104 on: November 15, 2019, 01:14:33 am »

Vote: Space

You could have been an IC, so you brought this upon yourself.
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Brightgalrs

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Re: BM27: Bad Idea Mafia
« Reply #105 on: November 15, 2019, 01:40:35 am »

Oh that's interesting, I didn't think you'd tell us who discarded the role.

Perhaps we should beginning by talking about a hierarchy of roles? Just about everyone would always pick a doctor over a vanilla townie, right? This would be useful to nail down beforehand so when we start scrutinizing people's role dilemmas, we can made sense of them.

This also leads into talking about why we discarded the role that we did, but keep in mind that that can give away quite a bit.

I'd say the hierarchy approximately goes:
  • Power (town)
  • Power (scum)
  • Low tier goon (scum)
  • Situational utility (town)
  • Vanilla townie
  • Practically suicidal (any)
  • Negative utility (town)

Mafia is a social game, so I think there would be some bias in selecting a role that allows you to talk and coordinate with other people (mason and scum roles). However there also might be a negative bias to selecting those roles (at least scum) because it's likely you'd end up by yourself in one of the 3 major scum factions (werewolves, mafia, alien).

Why did I put town power roles at the top? Because faced with the decision of  wacky alien roles #5 and town doctor, it'd be hard to justify why you discarded the doctor role.

I think the single worst role on the full list is the Black Goo, literally anything is better than that. The good news is that the worst role discarded is probably shraeye's Compulsive Childkiller. So it's safe to say that any role that is worse than that one wasn't picked by anyone, and that includes Black Goo and probably Compulsive Bodyguard Survivor, both are basically suicidal.

Anyway, there's a lot of discussion to be had just on this one topic, the hierarchy can be fleshed out.
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Re: BM27: Bad Idea Mafia
« Reply #106 on: November 15, 2019, 01:59:32 am »

Oh that's interesting, I didn't think you'd tell us who discarded the role.


I know, right? Bastard mod.

Anyway, PPS is town.
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Re: BM27: Bad Idea Mafia
« Reply #107 on: November 15, 2019, 02:00:15 am »

Vote: shraeye

How could you discard such a fun sounding role?
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Re: BM27: Bad Idea Mafia
« Reply #108 on: November 15, 2019, 02:04:52 am »

Actually read the child killer role.... Yeah, I would discard that too.

Vote: MiX

Good lynch bait
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Re: BM27: Bad Idea Mafia
« Reply #109 on: November 15, 2019, 02:08:09 am »

Reading some of these discarded roles is actually really interesting.

I still just think the idea of MiX being lynchbait is hilarious
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Joseph2302

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Re: BM27: Bad Idea Mafia
« Reply #110 on: November 15, 2019, 03:21:14 am »

Vote: EFHW because aliens are cool
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Town: 22 games, 8 wins
Scum: 5 games, 3 wins

Joseph2302

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Re: BM27: Bad Idea Mafia
« Reply #111 on: November 15, 2019, 03:21:38 am »

Interestingly, I'm the only person who discarded VT
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Joseph2302

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Re: BM27: Bad Idea Mafia
« Reply #112 on: November 15, 2019, 03:21:53 am »

Oh and as per usual, I'm the SK
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Joseph2302

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Re: BM27: Bad Idea Mafia
« Reply #113 on: November 15, 2019, 03:22:32 am »

Interestingly, I'm the only person who discarded VT
Forget that, I'm  not
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pubby

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Re: BM27: Bad Idea Mafia
« Reply #114 on: November 15, 2019, 03:31:12 am »

I'd say the hierarchy approximately goes:
  • Power (town)
  • Power (scum)
  • Low tier goon (scum)
  • Situational utility (town)
  • Vanilla townie
  • Practically suicidal (any)
  • Negative utility (town)

Why is town more likely to be picked than scum?

vote: jotheonah
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Re: BM27: Bad Idea Mafia
« Reply #115 on: November 15, 2019, 03:34:57 am »

Hey all.

Vote: Joseph

... because eventually he is gonna actually be the SK.
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Brightgalrs

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Re: BM27: Bad Idea Mafia
« Reply #116 on: November 15, 2019, 03:54:56 am »

Why is town more likely to be picked than scum?
I touched on this above:
Why did I put town power roles at the top? Because faced with the decision of wacky alien roles #5 and town doctor, it'd be hard to justify why you discarded the doctor role.
It's hard to justify giving up a role like doctor or bloodhound.
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Joseph2302

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Re: BM27: Bad Idea Mafia
« Reply #117 on: November 15, 2019, 04:08:17 am »

Hey all.

Vote: Joseph

... because eventually he is gonna actually be the SK.
If I had the choice, I definitely would have chosen it
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Joseph2302

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Re: BM27: Bad Idea Mafia
« Reply #118 on: November 15, 2019, 04:08:37 am »

Thoughts on a massclaim?
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Joseph2302

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Re: BM27: Bad Idea Mafia
« Reply #119 on: November 15, 2019, 04:08:58 am »

Also, I'm VLA for next 3 days FYI
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Joseph2302

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Re: BM27: Bad Idea Mafia
« Reply #120 on: November 15, 2019, 04:09:29 am »

Actually, Vote: Space for RL Mafia 1
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Brightgalrs

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Re: BM27: Bad Idea Mafia
« Reply #121 on: November 15, 2019, 04:10:56 am »

jotheonah is a good target for today.

For People who discarded pretty great roles, it's possible that they got an even better role out of that choice. But they are also very limited in what they can fakeclaim if they are scum.

People who discarded terrible roles (like, ahem, Wrong Place at the Wrong Time Townie) would choose literally anything over it. But they also have many more choices in what they can fakeclaim if they are scum.

jotheonah is in that middle ground where he's somewhat limited in what he can fakeclaim (his role has to be "better" than mason) yet he's not likely to have such an amazing role that him roleclaiming right now would screw us over in the long term.

And finally I'll say that I value the mason role over most of the town roles, it's a personal affront to me that it was discarded.

Vote: jotheonah
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MiX

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Re: BM27: Bad Idea Mafia
« Reply #122 on: November 15, 2019, 04:20:53 am »

Well, uh, I've been burned by this in the past, but Brightgalrs started by saying exactly what I would say, so I truly believe he thought exactly in that order he put forth. Sadly he discarded one of the worst roles, which means this doesn't say much about his townieness...

Vote: joth because mason is, not only one of the best town roles, but as Brightgalrs said, there's a social incentive to pick mason over non-mason so you have partners. Of course, if you're scum you also have partners, so...

I'll go over the discarded roles in a wall post in a bit.
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MiX

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Re: BM27: Bad Idea Mafia
« Reply #123 on: November 15, 2019, 04:53:48 am »

Awaclus discarded Vengeful Townie

Better than VT, Awaclus has at least something that he deems better than Vengeful. I would think town is his favourite team, so the discard's pretty interesting. It's somewhat scummy but at the same time I don't think Awaclus would pick scum given the chance.

faust discarded Werewolf Miller

Well this just tells us nothing. Just about any role is better than scum miller.

pubby discarded Conspiracy Theorist

This is a good discard if you're picking alien. I think pubby would prefer to be scum than town based on how he's played, so I definitely think he picks any scum over a semi-miller. No idea if the role's better than the other town PRs.

e discarded Retired Werewolf Hunter

Werewolf-bulletproof isn't very good, but better than nothing. Not much else to say here, really, there's a lot of roles that are better than this.

MiX discarded Lynchbait

Is lynchbait good utility, negative utility or neutral? Looks like a VT that kills third-party in a blue moon.

Joseph2302 discarded Vanilla Towni

"Vanilla Towni" is one of those roles that everyone discards given a non-miller or something awful so it won't tell us much.

SpaceAnemone discarded Innocent Child

This is actually incredibly scummy. Why would space ever choose anything other than IC? I think we should force a claim here, but I reeeeally don't think space would pick scum knowing they would flip discarding IC. But why do the same as town? It doesn't make any sense to me.

WestCoastDidds discarded Underdog

Didds wants to win! I think that role would go along being nice, but it's pretty much a townie that doesn't play D1 so I can see Didds choosing not to be it if the other role isn't too bad.

Glooble discarded Mason Lover

Mason is great! Lover is not. I can see Glooble throwing this away for something even better, but honestly how many people pick Lover for it to be relevent? I'll give him a less emphasized FoS similar to joth, but this IS weaker than mason.

pingpongsam discarded One-Shot Unlynchable Townie

You're scum right? Abilities that let you stay in the game for longer make sense for a fun setup with 23 players. I think pps would personally choose other PRs over this, so given it's pps I don't think it matters much.

DatSwan discarded Nurse

Eh, discarded a role better than VT, but not by much.

sudgy discarded Werewolf

Well this doesn't say much, other than he could've gotten 2 scum and had no choice. Just about anything could be preferable to being a goon-

Brightgalrs discarded Wrong Place at the Wrong Time Townie

Probably the worst role after Black Goo, everyone discards this over whatever else they have.

mail-mi discarded Hirsute Townie

Discarding miller is rational as anyone.

jotheonah discarded Mason

I talked about this: what PR's better than mason? Also see how joth and Glooble could've been masons! It's a very scummy flip, but unlike IC (like Space) I think you could talk your way out of it. Which makes it scummier, I suppose.

Uncleeurope discarded Mafia Goon

Goon's bad! Tells us that maybe he didn't have a choice?

Galzria discarded Bodyguard

Anti-fun role in a 23 player setup, I would've discarded this like it's a miller, so doesn't say much.

shraeye discarded Compulsive Childkiller

This role's better than it looks, but even then, mafia day-vig can fakeclaim this to justify killing an IC, which probably makes this sorta miller. So I understand the discard over almost anything.

EFHW discarded Alien One-Shot Unlynchable

Town or a very very fun role. EFHW is my IC. If you want to be scum, you always pick the unlynchable. The flip might just look super town if you were picking between scum I suppose.

LaLight discarded Lyncher (target player below)

Choosing to win sounds correct. Having to lynch Eevee is most likely harder than being town or scum.

Eevee discarded Vanilla Townie

Standard.

Raerae discarded Vanilla Townie

Run-of-the-mill.

Archetype discarded Mafia Reflexive Doctor

Bad scum role, is discarded by most.


Conclusions next post.
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MiX

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Re: BM27: Bad Idea Mafia
« Reply #124 on: November 15, 2019, 04:57:21 am »

Townie flips: EFHW

Somewhat townie flips: sudgy, Uncle, Awaclus

Scummy flips: pubby, Space, pps

Scum flips: joth, Glooble


Horray for setup! Awaclus' flip is interesting...
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