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Author Topic: Dominion: Small Hands  (Read 2651 times)

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Frolouch

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Dominion: Small Hands
« on: October 27, 2019, 01:08:04 pm »
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I've made a group of cards with the theme Small Hands
Here are the cards:


         

         

         

         

         


Here's a split pile...
   

Card-shaped things
   

   
« Last Edit: December 12, 2019, 02:58:21 pm by Frolouch »
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spineflu

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Re: Dominion: Small Hands
« Reply #1 on: October 27, 2019, 01:15:03 pm »
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i hate to burst your bubble but those hands are all gigantic

(also there's already a real card named Groundskeeper from uh Empires i think)
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LibraryAdventurer

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Re: Dominion: Small Hands
« Reply #2 on: October 27, 2019, 02:32:33 pm »
+1

"If you can't too bad."
I like that wording. I should start using that on my cards... ;D

Frolouch

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Re: Dominion: Small Hands
« Reply #3 on: October 27, 2019, 03:41:54 pm »
+1

i hate to burst your bubble but those hands are all gigantic

(also there's already a real card named Groundskeeper from uh Empires i think)

Good call,
I changed it to "Landscaper"
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segura

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Re: Dominion: Small Hands
« Reply #4 on: October 29, 2019, 02:21:22 am »
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Cute Thing is strictly better than Province.
Feng Shui is a great card.
A House is not a Home does what DXV stopped doing long ago: trashing Attacks that can hit Provinces without any compensation like Saboteur. OK, there are exception like Swindler hitting Province and turning it into a Peddler or massive cost reduction (but whoever reduced the price of Provinces to $0 is likely to win in this very turn anyway).
Cook Out becomes utterly degenerate in a Kingdom with Baker or Recruiter.
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GendoIkari

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Re: Dominion: Small Hands
« Reply #5 on: October 29, 2019, 12:31:21 pm »
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Knife Fight has a few issues....

By itself, it's just a much worse Militia. If it is the only attack on the board; I don't think anyone would ever buy it. You might buy it

Nothing stops you from revealing it multiple times; so you would discard your opponent's entire hand when they play an attack. It should either only hit players with 5 or more cards in hand; or be discarded or set aside when used.

Even on a board with other attacks; there really only seems like 2 options... either the reaction is mean enough that you never buy other attacks because it is on the board (thus also having no reason to buy Knife Fight; it just takes both the other attack and itself out of consideration). Or it's not strong enough to stop opponents from buying the other attack; in which case you just won't buy Knife Fight at all. It's on-play is just too weak to justify buying it.

Loaded With Cash - what happens if you play it as your first Treasure in a turn? As worded it will count the value of the last treasure played at all; which will usually be the one last played by your opponent. But this can be hard to track; and it also slows the game down a lot because your opponent has to be careful to play basic treasures in the right order. If you meant it to only count the current turn; you can say that. I guess that in that case; it just counts as if it is the first one played. It's too cheap / too good though... it's cheaper than Silver, and will almost always be worth or more; as long as you don't buy it at the very start of the game. Finally, a formatting issue; the text should not be under a dividing line; things below the dividing line happen at a time other than when you play the card. Just look at cards like Bank to see how variable-worth treasures are worded/formatted.

Garbage Day also can be revealed any number of times; so you could draw/trash your entire deck.

A House is not a Home should not have the "attack" type. See Ill-Gotten Gains for a comparison... the problem with giving it the "attack" type is that all it does is cause confusion; people will wonder if they can reveal a Moat when you gain one (they can't; because Moat reacts to players playing an attack, not gaining one). It's also just way too harsh and swingy. Randomly trashing a Province from other players, while possibly helping a different opponent by trashing an Estate, without any replacement; is just too much.

Micro SD Card - you should remove "if you can't, too bad". It doesn't add anything to the functionality, and makes the card just sound silly.

The wording on Keep the Light on doesn't make sense. You say to discard a card "for every treasure you want to reuse", but then there's no instructions about actually getting to reuse treasures. I assume that "reuse" means basically play again... you should use existing terminology that has defined meaning in Dominion. Something like: "Return to your buy phase. Discard any number of cards from your hand. For each card discarded this way, play a treasure card that you have in play." That could be interpreted to allow you to re-play the same treasure repeatedly, which I don't think is was you want; so you'll have to tinker with the wording some.

The wording on Primer Paint  - check out Merchant for how wording should work on something like this. "If you play the color card" is unclear.
« Last Edit: October 29, 2019, 01:09:48 pm by GendoIkari »
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Frolouch

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Re: Dominion: Small Hands
« Reply #6 on: October 30, 2019, 06:23:15 pm »
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Thanks for all the feedback! Super helpful. Will address things that will help clear things up.

Knife Fight has a few issues....

By itself, it's just a much worse Militia. If it is the only attack on the board; I don't think anyone would ever buy it. You might buy it

Nothing stops you from revealing it multiple times; so you would discard your opponent's entire hand when they play an attack. It should either only hit players with 5 or more cards in hand; or be discarded or set aside when used.

Even on a board with other attacks; there really only seems like 2 options... either the reaction is mean enough that you never buy other attacks because it is on the board (thus also having no reason to buy Knife Fight; it just takes both the other attack and itself out of consideration). Or it's not strong enough to stop opponents from buying the other attack; in which case you just won't buy Knife Fight at all. It's on-play is just too weak to justify buying it.

I didn't consider the fact that the reaction could be played over and over, so I think I will add a clause that will discard after using the reaction ability. Other than that, it's a good point to consider adding some kind of benefit to the main player when using the card.. I'll look into that.


Loaded With Cash - what happens if you play it as your first Treasure in a turn? As worded it will count the value of the last treasure played at all; which will usually be the one last played by your opponent. But this can be hard to track; and it also slows the game down a lot because your opponent has to be careful to play basic treasures in the right order. If you meant it to only count the current turn; you can say that. I guess that in that case; it just counts as if it is the first one played. It's too cheap / too good though... it's cheaper than Silver, and will almost always be worth or more; as long as you don't buy it at the very start of the game. Finally, a formatting issue; the text should not be under a dividing line; things below the dividing line happen at a time other than when you play the card. Just look at cards like Bank to see how variable-worth treasures are worded/formatted.
If it's played as the first treasure, the player gains nothing from it. It requires an initial placement of a card like copper, silver or gold. I'll reword it. Is debt considered cheaper than coin?

Garbage Day also can be revealed any number of times; so you could draw/trash your entire deck.
Will make this a discard on use of reaction ability.

A House is not a Home should not have the "attack" type. See Ill-Gotten Gains for a comparison... the problem with giving it the "attack" type is that all it does is cause confusion; people will wonder if they can reveal a Moat when you gain one (they can't; because Moat reacts to players playing an attack, not gaining one). It's also just way too harsh and swingy. Randomly trashing a Province from other players, while possibly helping a different opponent by trashing an Estate, without any replacement; is just too much.
I'm into the swing. I want to think of ways to subvert the linear track of gaining provinces in the second half of the game. I feel like I play many games where you know you're behind in VP points and there's not much to do to put the ball back in your court.

The wording on Keep the Light on doesn't make sense. You say to discard a card "for every treasure you want to reuse", but then there's no instructions about actually getting to reuse treasures. I assume that "reuse" means basically play again... you should use existing terminology that has defined meaning in Dominion. Something like: "Return to your buy phase. Discard any number of cards from your hand. For each card discarded this way, play a treasure card that you have in play." That could be interpreted to allow you to re-play the same treasure repeatedly, which I don't think is was you want; so you'll have to tinker with the wording some.

The wording on Primer Paint  - check out Merchant for how wording should work on something like this. "If you play the color card" is unclear.

Thanks will adjust the wording.
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GendoIkari

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Re: Dominion: Small Hands
« Reply #7 on: October 31, 2019, 02:38:54 pm »
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Is debt considered cheaper than coin?

It isn't in terms of rules that care about something being more expensive than something else(Engineer cannot gain an Engineer because is not "Up to ")

 But it definitely should be considered cheaper in terms of card strength vs cost. Any time you could afford to buy a card, you could also afford a card. But not the other way around; you could afford a card even if you don't have to spend. So cards that costs should be weaker than a card that is balanced at .
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Frolouch

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Re: Dominion: Small Hands
« Reply #8 on: November 20, 2019, 05:45:04 am »
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I've added a couple more into the mix:

Great Outdoors



Reflection



Here's a split pile...
Spreeee and Cutting Service

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segura

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Re: Dominion: Small Hands
« Reply #9 on: November 20, 2019, 06:05:36 am »
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Great Outdoors does not need the first line and the card drawing should happen before you put the card on the Tavern. Mat. Well, I guess so, otherwise this is nearly strictly better than Village. by the way, I'd discard them start of Clean-up (not Buy phase due to Villa) in order to prevent loops. When you discard them during the Action phase, you can play them again and you can easily imagine a scenario with Diadem where this then creates unlimited Action and thus Coins.

Reflection features a wording which is unclear. I guess you mean "If this is the time you played Reflection this turn, play it again."

Spreeee features a nice pile blocking idea but is too weak to ever get bought.

Cutting Servce should force the other player to reveal his hand.
Try to use official wording like that of Apprentice, i.e. "+1 Card per the set aside card costs." and "Put the set aside card into the discard pile of the player to your left." Although it is clear what you mean, send is not a defined game term.
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