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[Glooble]

Has anyone else considered any potential value for skum in claiming zombie (whether true or not)?

Like I don't have anything per say, but if Zombie is not in fact indicative of Skum alignment, then by changing from zombie to human, one would still be skum yes?

Yes, but going Romero is way worse for scum than it is for town, since scum have more to lose from a random death. So ideally we'd like to not turn the scum zombies human (and if we can turn the scum humans zombie, that's be good too.)

[jotheonah]

Oh what the heck. Last night, someone gave me a vial of zombie cure. As a night action, I can turn a zombie human. I know this doesn't prove my alignment, but since I am town, I would like to use it before you lynch me. That does mean either someone is going to have to claim zombie or trust me to have strong zombie reads.

So not to be the negative nancy here... but I fail to see how you receiving an item makes you town.

It doesn’t? But offering to use it for town benefit might? And also, whether you believe I’m town or not I’d hope it at least keeps me safe for one night so I can use it.

[SpaceAnemone]

Has anyone watched the show to know if joth's ability is plausible?  In a lot of zombie universes the idea of curing a zombie is considered silly.

There's definitely the concept of a cure in the show. I mentioned it in-thread during D1:

There are zombie cures in the show, and people definitely can go back to being human after being zombies... there's just usually some plot reason why the main character can't do it!

You can google "izombie cure" for a wiki page about it.

I feel like it's likely that the setup allows for people going in both directions, but I would expect a net drift from human to zombie.

Is your inference about Joth's alignment in any way conditioned on whether it's likely that his cure really exists?

[SpaceAnemone]

Hmmm. Interesting.

vote: EFHW I guess.


I am a zombie, btw. If you don't want to trust your reads.

Did you get brains to eat last night?

Glooble don't answer this.

There might be a way from scum to roleblock your cure but they also might have other stuff they want to do with the roleblock.  It's better if they don't know to what extent roleblocking the cure harms you

@Pops, your focus on the role-blocking issue, and complete omission of how Glooble's response migth reflect on your own zombiness, feels weird to me.

@Glooble, if you tried to eat MiX's brains and didn't get any, then the most likely conclusion is that either scum pipped you to the post (in which case Pops is likely non-zombie), or that zombie!Pops got them (as any alignment). If you tried to eat LL's brains, then that tells us that maybe there's something that can role-block the eating process. If you targetted MiX and ate the brain, then if you're town it probably tells us there are some hungry scum zombies out there (or no scum zombies, or scum zombies who had more pressing night actions to do than eating, assuming you didn't also take an additional action last night), or possibly it tells us you're marginally more likely to be scum, and also that Pops is likely not to be a zombie at the moment. Sure, there are lots of options, but don't forget that you have all this extra info that Pops is ordering you not to share with the rest of us :-P

[faust]

Vote Count 2.2

EFHW (2): popsofctown, Glooble
shraeye (2): Galzria, WestCoastDidds
jotheonah (1): Awaclus
Galzria (1): shraeye

Not Voting (5): SpaceAnemone, DatSwan, jotheonah, EFHW, Archetype

With 11 alive, it takes 6 to lynch. Day 2 ends on January 08, 2020, 07:00:00 am.

That is in 21 hours.

[WestCoastDidds]

21 hours people!

[Galzria]

21 hours people!

Who do you like better than Shraeye? I would strongly prefer not to change, but will if nobody else feels lynching the double-voter-trying-to-pretend-they’re-not is the right play here.

Joth is higher up on my scum reads, and would be my preferred second. There’s no proof he received the item ability he’s claimed to have, no proof Glooble is actually a Zombie, no proof he would (or would be allowed to (ie. Roleblock’s)) use it on Glooble, and no proof Glooble would actually be cured.

I’m also suspicious of Glooble, after the fits he threw D1 about how horrendous his lynch would be, he doesn’t seem overly concerned about his position at this time or being a Zombie in general... which, to be fair, as being a Zombie itself is probably NAI, I’m not entirely certain that my gut reads on this are strictly on point.

[EFHW]

21 hours people!

Who do you like better than Shraeye? I would strongly prefer not to change, but will if nobody else feels lynching the double-voter-trying-to-pretend-they’re-not is the right play here.

You were trying to get mod clarification on whether it was mod error or something else. Did you ever hear anything back?

[WestCoastDidds]

21 hours people!

Who do you like better than Shraeye? I would strongly prefer not to change, but will if nobody else feels lynching the double-voter-trying-to-pretend-they’re-not is the right play here.

Joth is higher up on my scum reads, and would be my preferred second. There’s no proof he received the item ability he’s claimed to have, no proof Glooble is actually a Zombie, no proof he would (or would be allowed to (ie. Roleblock’s)) use it on Glooble, and no proof Glooble would actually be cured.

I’m also suspicious of Glooble, after the fits he threw D1 about how horrendous his lynch would be, he doesn’t seem overly concerned about his position at this time or being a Zombie in general... which, to be fair, as being a Zombie itself is probably NAI, I’m not entirely certain that my gut reads on this are strictly on point.

I can't say that I have a ton of insight. I started this game distracted (like most of us), so I I feel back on my heels.  Shraeye just ignoring the double voter question makes me itchy. He feels like the diet-shraeye that raerae says is Scum!Shraeye...around just enough but mostly under the radar.

Space is doing some of that same thing. Lots of posts with lost of words, but very little that is moving the game forward. (I am guilty of this as well, but Space is far more analytical than I am so I'd expect more analysis.) EFHW is asking lots of questions, but also not really moving us forward (again, I am guilty of this as well but I am turning over a new leaf!).

I am willing to wait to see if Joth can cure Glooble. I feel like Glooble has been towny, and I have zero ability to read Joth but I'm not sure scum!Joth volunteers the information that he has a cure, but I am more sure that scum!Glooble doesn't say "cure me!". It could totally be a twins-scum gambit, but I think waiting to see makes sense.

I don't get pops at all, but I am starting to follow how he thinks.  I don't have an opinion about his scumminess. I have zero experience with Archetype, and I am not sure he is in the game. Awaclus is in this game?

I'd like you and Swan to start showing up more.  Not only because I dig you, but because I often think like ya'll do.  This is especially true of Swan whose stream of consciousness often matches mine. I am not 100% sold on you, but no one has made any good arguments as to why you'd be a good lynch so let's keep talking.

So, I guess my scummy list is Shraeye, Space, and EFHW right now.

[EFHW]

Catching up.

Want to get this out there: I’m a Death Miller/miller and share the same alignment as shraeye in investigation and in my death. Faust also said my flip will include my Miller role.

Does this mean that if you are investigated, Shraeye's alignment will be revealed instead? Or the same alignment as would be reported for Shraeye (which may or may not be accurate)? Why is your flip important?

The latter of the two. And that’s just so you know what to expect if I were to die.

Are you going to flip looking like mafia or looking like Shraeye? Why him? Did you choose or were you simply informed?

Archetype - did you answer this?

[popsofctown]

Hmmm. Interesting.

vote: EFHW I guess.


I am a zombie, btw. If you don't want to trust your reads.

Did you get brains to eat last night?

Glooble don't answer this.

There might be a way from scum to roleblock your cure but they also might have other stuff they want to do with the roleblock.  It's better if they don't know to what extent roleblocking the cure harms you

@Pops, your focus on the role-blocking issue, and complete omission of how Glooble's response migth reflect on your own zombiness, feels weird to me.

@Glooble, if you tried to eat MiX's brains and didn't get any, then the most likely conclusion is that either scum pipped you to the post (in which case Pops is likely non-zombie), or that zombie!Pops got them (as any alignment). If you tried to eat LL's brains, then that tells us that maybe there's something that can role-block the eating process. If you targetted MiX and ate the brain, then if you're town it probably tells us there are some hungry scum zombies out there (or no scum zombies, or scum zombies who had more pressing night actions to do than eating, assuming you didn't also take an additional action last night), or possibly it tells us you're marginally more likely to be scum, and also that Pops is likely not to be a zombie at the moment. Sure, there are lots of options, but don't forget that you have all this extra info that Pops is ordering you not to share with the rest of us :-P

If you were in a setup where a random half of the players had the Macho modifier and there was an Informed player who starts the game knowing who all of those players are, would you start of the game telling him to tell everyone who all the machos are?  That's how I view this.

I mean maybe you will say yes maybe you're just actually super bad at mafia theory I can't really tell yet.

I don't really like the way joth was excited about claiming his item at a drastically sooner point than he is excited about claiming his role. It's scum indicative, it might mean he is something like Framer that tends to be a scum role, but he got the item from a townie and is excited to tell us about it. 

I have been townreading shraeye all game, I'm definitely not voting there.

[jotheonah]

I'm down for vote: shraeye. Man this game really got away from us.

[EFHW]

I'm thinking joth, Shraeye or pops. Or Archetype. I'll be sure to vote in time, but I'm not ready to decide yet.

[EFHW]

I guess it would be reckless to vote joth today. Let's see what happens tomorrow for him.

[shraeye]

I'm thinking joth, Shraeye or pops. Or Archetype. I'll be sure to vote in time, but I'm not ready to decide yet.

I think that whole list is town.  Try something else

[Glooble]

I’m also suspicious of Glooble, after the fits he threw D1 about how horrendous his lynch would be, he doesn’t seem overly concerned about his position at this time or being a Zombie in general... which, to be fair, as being a Zombie itself is probably NAI, I’m not entirely certain that my gut reads on this are strictly on point.

What I said was it would be very bad if I were lynched Day 1. It would have been.

It's only normal amount of bad if I'm lynched day 2.

Sorry I haven't been very active this game. Work has been crazy since we got back after the holiday so I can't really get on during the day like I used to.

[shraeye]

I'm thinking joth, Shraeye or pops. Or Archetype. I'll be sure to vote in time, but I'm not ready to decide yet.

I think that whole list is town.  Try something else

I suggest Galz, his policy vote because he wanted to know my role even though it doesn't/shouldn't have any effect on his play whether I can or can't double vote....is in no way actual scumhunting.

Turning joth into a thing based on the "interesting" comment also smacks of feigned scumhunting.

The fact that the same player started both of those trends is definitely of note

[Awaclus]

Vote: shraeye

[EFHW]

I really would like Galz to answer my question.

[EFHW]

I wouldn't say that a possible double voter isn't relevant to town's interests.

[Galzria]

I really would like Galz to answer my question.

I did not inquire with Faust. It’s been a prominent point of discussion and my expectation for any MOD would be to correct a mistake if it’s impacting game play - thus my working theory that it’s not a mistake, and further Shraeye’s unwillingness to engage with what I consider to be a public piece of information combined subsequently with his attempt to gloss over it to pretend it doesn’t exist is the primary factor coloring my read on him.

His complete dismissal of the extremely valid read of Joth’s reaction just furthers that read tbh.

I agree with Pops: Yesterday Shraeye read very Town to me. Today has been the exact opposite. So... yeah. I prefer Shraeye. Joth would be second, maybe Glooble third. Archetype for his lack of relevance fourth, and everybody except Swan, Pops & Didds fall somewhere between.

[WestCoastDidds]

Deadline is at 6am for me, so there is maybe a 20% chance I’m up then. More likely not.

[Glooble]

vote: shraeye

Deadline is right as I'm leaving the house. If I wake up before my alarm I'll hop on for a bit.

[shraeye]

I like best that Galz-"did-not-check-with-mod"-ria, who is normally a VERY analytical player who does amazingly deep re-reads of the thread didn't notice that the Final Vote count was last corrected 30 minutes after DatSwan pointed out that I was on two people, didn't bother to check that things were updated 2 days before his policy vote, and didn't reread or examine anything before he dove into the deep end on "shraeye hasn't confirmed anything so is scum".

If Galz cared about scumhunting in this scenario, he would realize that
A) pointing out a double-voter isn't necessary
B) things had been clearly edited to show I wasn't
C) not responding to his question (or DatSwan's observation) was unconventional and thus easy to paint as scummy, but also something that scum would NEVER DO because of the attention it would bring

so, for emphasis,
vote: Galz

[Archetype]

Catching up.

Want to get this out there: I’m a Death Miller/miller and share the same alignment as shraeye in investigation and in my death. Faust also said my flip will include my Miller role.

Does this mean that if you are investigated, Shraeye's alignment will be revealed instead? Or the same alignment as would be reported for Shraeye (which may or may not be accurate)? Why is your flip important?

The latter of the two. And that’s just so you know what to expect if I were to die.

Are you going to flip looking like mafia or looking like Shraeye? Why him? Did you choose or were you simply informed?

Archetype - did you answer this?

My alignment will be whatever shraeye’s is. I also don’t think shraeye is scum.