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[faust]

Welcome to RMM55: iZombie Mafia!

Mod: faust

This is a closed game for 14 players. Some more information will be provided in the next post.

Players:
1. SpaceAnemone
2. Glooble
3. WestCoastDidds
4. DatSwan
5. MiX
6. LaLight
7. jotheonah
8. EFHW
9. A Drowned Kernel
10. raerae
11. Archetype
12. popsofctown
13. shraeye
14. Galzria

Spectators tagged: ashersky

Day starts:

General rules

Changes to the usual rule sets are marked in olive.

The Golden Rule:

Please remember that this is a game and your main objective is to have fun!  Be considerate of each other, don’t get personal, and enjoy the game. Please read The Civility Pledge before signing up for any mafia game on this site.  If you have not /pledged there, you cannot play. Excessive personal attacks or uncivil behavior may be dealt with by modifiers or modkills.

1. General Gameplay and Etiquette:

1. You may not quote information (either real or fabricated) from any game-related source other than the thread you are posting in. This means no quotes from PMs and no quotes from QTs in the main thread or in another QT. Paraphrasing is acceptable. If you are unsure whether a post is legal, please ask the moderator before posting.
2. There is to be NO personal communication outside of the forum postings and the QTs specifically designed for this purpose.
3. As a general rule you should aim for one post every 12 hours, minimum, to keep the game moving.

2. Voting, Deadlines, and Player Death:

1. Day phases will last 7 days, Night lasts at least 48 hours. Night action deadline is 36 hours after night start.
2. A simple majority (rounded up) of all living members must agree on one person for a lynch to occur prior to deadline.
3. Once you have reached a simple majority no further unvoting will change someone’s fate. Further votes will also be ignored.
4. Once a player is lynched, the game enters twilight until the mod locks the thread; all players including the one who was lynched may continue to post during twilight.
5. If the deadline is hit without a player reaching the majority of votes, there will be no lynch.
6. Please submit votes as: Vote: PlayerName.  Votes in another format may or may not be counted. This is up to the mod's discretion. Obvious abbreviations or nicknames will be counted so long as they are unambiguous.
7. Please submit vote revocations Unvote. Unvotes are not necessary before changing votes.
8. You may Vote: No Lynch - a simple majority of these vote types are required to send the game to Night phase without a lynch.
10. Any time you are dead (either via lynch or night kill) you may no longer post in the game or in shared Quicktopics. This means that you do not even get a “Bah” post. The dead in this game are silent.
11. If the thread is locked, you may not post.  Threads can be locked for various reasons, but no matter what the reason, you may not post.  The mod may forget to lock the thread, but if they say it is locked, it is still locked.

3. Miscellaneous/Mechanics:

1. Bold, olive text is reserved for the mod.  No invisible/small text is allowed, nor is cryptography.
2. If you have an issue/problem with the game, please discuss this in your role QT.  Do not post issues/complaints in the game thread.
3. The Mods may make mistakes - please point out any mistakes gently.  Mistakes will be corrected where possible, but sometimes mistakes are made that cannot be reversed.  These will stand as final to be commiserated over after the game.
4. Please bold all requests to the Mods so that they don’t get missed.
5. Prods of missing players may be issued after 24 hours of no activity.  A prodded player has 24 hours to respond or risks replacement.  A player who has been prodded 2 times is subject to replacement under rule 3.9 without further notice. Players with announced VLA are exempt from this rule the first time it happens.
6. If you anticipate being unavailable for more than a 48-hour period please post a notice to that effect in the thread.  Treat this game as a commitment.  Be considerate – don’t leave us hanging. Players who fail to post for 48 hours without an announcement risk being subject to replacement and/or being modkilled without further notice.
7. Please do not discuss ongoing games, it can unintentionally affect the other game. Do not discuss this game in any thread that is not directly related to it.
8. Rule violations will be dealt with according to their severity, which may include modkill(s) if needed.
9. Players who discover they are too busy to play in a game or want to leave the game for civility issues are not allowed to officially /out in the thread.  A request to /out must only be done via a post in the role QT. Please do not use this as a manipulation technique.  (Note players may continue to threaten to /out or imply that they might as long as it does not include an official request). Requests to /out are final once submitted. There will be no /outing and then /inning back into the game so make sure that when you /out you have thought it through and really want to do it. Players that can't be replaced will simply be mod-killed. Whether your request to /out will lead to replacement or a modkill is up to the mod's discretion.

[faust]

1. General Information

This is a game for 14 players, featuring players with at least 2 different win conditions. Win conditions are fixed, though the requirements for winning may be dependent on the game state.
Every player in the game will have a power role. Roles are highly customized in this game.
Every player has a role name that tries to capture their role in standard terms (whenever possible). This role name will be revealed upon death.

2. Mechanics

Players in this game are either humans or zombies. Their status may change throughout the game, and is revealed upon death. All zombies have access to an additional Night action:

Eating brains. You may target a dead (or living) player at night. If they are dead by the end of the night, and died a human, you eat their brain. Only one zombie can eat someone's brain. If there are multiple targeters, the player to eat the brain is whoever gets the highest score in the following scheme:

-1 per other night action taken
+1 if you did not end the last Day they were alive voting for the victim
+1 per time you targeted the victim
+1 if you killed the victim
+1 if target is of the same faction
+0.5 if you are not town-aligned

Other modifiers may apply depending on your role. This action will fail if your score is lower than 0. It is revealed at the end of each Night which player's brains have been eaten. If someone targets you the night you ate a brain, and the same person previously targeted the owner of the brain, you will learn that player's name.

If a zombie goes 2 Nights without eating a brain, then at the end of the second Night, they will "go Romero", which for the purposes of the game means they die. Flavor will indicate whether players turned Romero or died another way (or both).

There are special role modifiers in the game: "Human" and "Zombie", which mean that the power modified with these can only be used if the player is a human rsp. a zombie.

3. Action resolution

In case of conflicting Night actions, I am trying to follow a standard action resolution scheme. I will answer question about interactions of your role with other standard roles.
Eating brains is last in the action resolution chain, i.e. a player who was successfully killed will not be a valid candidate for getting a brain.

4. Flavor

This game is strongly themed, based upon the show iZombie. Players who are not town-aligned will receive fakeclaims. For players unfamiliar with the show, I will post short summaries for each fakeclaim character. Players may ask reasonable flavor questions in their QTs.
Whether a character is in the game or a fakeclaim was randomized at the start of the design process.

5. Win conditions

The win condition for town is this:

You win when, at the start of a Day, all threats to the town have been eliminated, and there is at least one town-aligned player left alive, or nothing can stop that from happening.

The win condition for mafia is this:

You win when, at the start of a Day, a majority of living players is aligned with your faction, or nothing can stop that from happening.

[SpaceAnemone]

/in :-)

I feel a rewatch coming on!

[Glooble]

/in Though I’ve only seen the first few episodes.

[Galzria]

/tag

[WestCoastDidds]

How October appropriate!

/in

[Swowl]

/in sauce

[MiX]

/in

[popsofctown]

/in
but also
does this forum send me an email if I get a pm

[faust]

/in
but also
does this forum send me an email if I get a pm

Depends on your settings, under Profile/Personal Messaging.

[popsofctown]

I have not made the civility pledge.

I am not sure about all that
Am I allowed to call players Scouts if they don't vote the way I want them to?
That is important to me.

[silverspawn]

^ yes.

[popsofctown]

I only skimmed the mechanics because it's a closed game anyway

I will just sheep somebody who seems to know what they're doing and claim VT no matter what I roll

[jotheonah]

/in

[shraeye]

Tag for now

[EFHW]

/in

[popsofctown]

/out

[LaLight]

/in

[MiX]

Bump.

[A Drowned Kernel]

/in

[raerae]

/in

[ashersky]

Tag

[Swowl]

hey - does the eating brains pr point system carry on throughout the game days? or is it like each night has its own fresh independent point system?

[faust]

hey - does the eating brains pr point system carry on throughout the game days? or is it like each night has its own fresh independent point system?

It's calculated independently each Night. Of course "times you targeted the victim" may accumulate over the course of the game.

[Swowl]

sweet thanks!

how is this not filled yet? seems to be a good time.

[Archetype]

/in

[A Drowned Kernel]

Will flips include whether the player was a human or zombie?

[faust]

Will flips include whether the player was a human or zombie?

Yes.

[Swowl]

rae/shraeye?

cmon... you get in and ill talk galz into it and we good to go!

[Swowl]

or just shraeye I didn't realize Rae in already

[popsofctown]

/in

[shraeye]

Can do,

\in

[raerae]

rae/shraeye?

cmon... you get in and ill talk galz into it and we good to go!

The peer pressure on this site is weirdly effective.

[Swowl]

And then a Wild Galz appears!!

[Galzria]

Ok, f/ine.

[Swowl]

I clearly am a genie

[faust]

Well, we are full. But I am not sure if it's reasonable to start before the holidays. Do people have opinions on that?

[jotheonah]

I'd kinda rather wait til the new year, but I can. I'll probably get lynched day 1 anyway.

[A Drowned Kernel]

I would prefer to start sooner rather than later

[Archetype]

I would prefer to start sooner rather than later

Same

[WestCoastDidds]

I clearly am a genie

Masterful!

[WestCoastDidds]

I’m VLA 23-27....as I expect many will be. But I’m cool with starting whenever.

[Swowl]

Vla means chilling and eating for holidays so I’m good with firing whenever

[faust]

I think there's more support for starting early. We will extend D1 by 48 hours to account for the holidays, and I'll issue no prods from December 24-26. PMs going out shortly.

[faust]

Night 0 starts now and lasts 48 hours. Day 1 will start on December 20, 2019, 02:30:00 am.

THREAD LOCKED except for tags.

[faust]

For some months now, violent crime has been on decline in Seattle. What seems like a happy occasion is causing trouble in the police department's morgue. Without homicides comig in Liv has resorted to older bodies of victims for her brain supplies. And now, even most of these are already brainless. The prospect of having to find new ways to satisfy her hunger is looming as part of Liv hopes for some killings.

Day 1 begins!

Vote Count 1.0

Not Voting (14): SpaceAnemone, Glooble, WestCoastDidds, DatSwan, MiX, LaLight, jotheonah, EFHW, A Drowned Kernel, raerae, Archetype, popsofctown, shraeye, Galzria

With 14 alive, it takes 8 to lynch. Day 1 ends on December 29, 2019, 02:30:00 am.

[Galzria]

So... this is a setup that exists.

[SpaceAnemone]

I'm excited for this! Though also kinda busy.. the next ~36 hours are all either work or choir commitments, then I spend Sunday travelling, and then I start my xmas shopping on Monday :-P So apologies if it takes a few days for my availability to go up.

Vote: Galz for being awake and on the hunt for brains already :-P

[MiX]

This does indeed exist.

Vote: Archetype because I never got to know you last game.

[WestCoastDidds]

Hi friends!

I’m going to have the opposite availability of Space. Around until Monday afternoon and then off the grid intermittently until 28th. It’s a family holiday cruise in the Carribean, so I’m guessing off the grid in this case will be no Internetten access are all as opposed to just being busy. We’ll see.

So, here’s some fun new insight...we have heated blankets on the beds because our little house is super drafty and somewhat cold. If I turn one on during the day Scott and Brad (the orange cats!) will lay on it and fall asleep stretched out like cat pelts. The magical blanket transforms them from lazy cats to cats made of butter melting with the heat. I think it’s awesome.

[Glooble]

vote: MiX

Always a strong opener.

[jotheonah]

Hi all! I’ll be around the next 5 hours or so, then more or less out for the whole weekend.

[A Drowned Kernel]

vote: galz just for his scum performance in bad idea

[WestCoastDidds]

Hi all! I’ll be around the next 5 hours or so, then more or less out for the whole weekend.

Are you doing some fun and exciting, or work??

[EFHW]

vote: Glooble. MiX is clearly town here. And I want to work at a jigsaw puzzle company!

[LaLight]

Hi everyone again!

vote: Galz for the Bad Idea as well

[jotheonah]

Hi all! I’ll be around the next 5 hours or so, then more or less out for the whole weekend.

Are you doing some fun and exciting, or work??

My wife is turning 30 and wanted to do something big, so we are renting a house in Rhode Island for the weekend with some of her friends.

[MiX]

vote: galz just for his scum performance in bad idea

That's actually reason enough to never lynch him in my book. He deserves a scum win after that.

vote: Glooble. MiX is clearly town here. And I want to work at a jigsaw puzzle company!

Vote: EFHW, stop trying to emulate your scum meta.

Hi everyone again!

vote: Galz for the Bad Idea as well

Scum!LL does this more than town!LL but isn't exactly someone I want to lynch this early.


RVS talk aside, do we really lose anything from claiming who's human and who's zombie? There's probably some abilities that turn humans into zombies, or vice-versa, and hiding when those changes happen might be good, but I can't tell how bad it is if we all just claimed our initial status. What does everyone else think?

[Glooble]

RVS talk aside, do we really lose anything from claiming who's human and who's zombie? There's probably some abilities that turn humans into zombies, or vice-versa, and hiding when those changes happen might be good, but I can't tell how bad it is if we all just claimed our initial status. What does everyone else think?

Scum wants to stop town zombies from successfully eating brains. That nets them extra kills. We should be careful not to give them any information that might help them accoplish that goal. For now, claiming zombie status feels too risky.

[MiX]

RVS talk aside, do we really lose anything from claiming who's human and who's zombie? There's probably some abilities that turn humans into zombies, or vice-versa, and hiding when those changes happen might be good, but I can't tell how bad it is if we all just claimed our initial status. What does everyone else think?

Scum wants to stop town zombies from successfully eating brains. That nets them extra kills. We should be careful not to give them any information that might help them accoplish that goal. For now, claiming zombie status feels too risky.

There's most likely town PRs that want to know who's who too...

Also, does anyone know the flavor? For those who do, how many initial zombies would you expect for town? What about for scum?

[A Drowned Kernel]

From what I can tell, the biggest benefit from zombies claiming would be allowing them to coordinate brain eating to minimize the chance of starving. Whether or not that outweighs the drawbacks of revealing themselves to scum seems kind of unknowable

[LaLight]

Scum!LL does this more than town!LL but isn't exactly someone I want to lynch this early.

Do what exactly? Write posts?

[MiX]

Scum!LL does this more than town!LL but isn't exactly someone I want to lynch this early.

Do what exactly? Write posts?

Join a wagon this soon. I'm probably wrong...

[jotheonah]

RVS talk aside, do we really lose anything from claiming who's human and who's zombie? There's probably some abilities that turn humans into zombies, or vice-versa, and hiding when those changes happen might be good, but I can't tell how bad it is if we all just claimed our initial status. What does everyone else think?

I was thinking this too. Doesn't the main character of the show solve crimes by eating brains? So she might need to know who zombies and humans are to be an effective cop.

But also, it's a faust setup. He's usually pretty good at thinking through and making mass claims punishing for town.

[jotheonah]

We could also talk generally about brain-eating strategy. I mean, at the end of the day there will be one lynch. Should all zombies try to eat that brain? Should zombies flip a coin and go 50/50 between eating that brain and trying to predict the scum kill and targeting that brain for eating? If we all go for the town lynch brain, than any potential scum zombies would get to eat the nightkill victim's brain unopposed. And that means even fewer brains for town subsequent nights.

Honestly there can't be too many zombies at least to start, because the math is not great. Every zombie has to eat a brain every other night, each zombie can only eat one brain, and there's only going to be 2 new brains generated every day/night cycle (most likely). So mathematically, there's a maximum number of zombies the game can support without some number being guaranteed to Romero.

How can we work this out? If every zombie has to eat every other night, than each zombie needs 1/2 brain per day/night cycle. The game is making 2 brains per day/night cycle. Therefore, a sustainable number of zombies would be 4. That means that <=4 zombies is uninteresting -- they can all get along. Although, zombies can also eat brains they don't need to deprive other zombies of brains, so 4 or less isn't a guarantee of everyone eating well.

Also, zombies can only eat human brains! So the expected number of brains per night also needs to be modified by the chance that the kill was not a zombie. And we don't know that unless we know the thing we're trying to figure out, the number of zombies. The more zombies there are, the fewer brains there are to go around.

Considering all of this, and assuming there aren't mechanics that turn humans into zombies, I'm betting we have 4 or 5 zombies. Any more would make the competition for brains too fierce; less would make it too easy.

[Glooble]

Considering all of this, and assuming there aren't mechanics that turn humans into zombies, I'm betting we have 4 or 5 zombies. Any more would make the competition for brains too fierce; less would make it too easy.

Why would you assume that though?

[Glooble]

Isn't turning humans into zombies kinda the MO of zombies in most zombie fiction? I'd be very surprised if this came contained no way of turning a human into a zombie.

[MiX]

Considering all of this, and assuming there aren't mechanics that turn humans into zombies, I'm betting we have 4 or 5 zombies. Any more would make the competition for brains too fierce; less would make it too easy.

Why would you assume that though?

Surely there's a flavor reason for this? Without knowing the flavor I expect a lot of changes, but maybe that doesn't happen in the show?

Isn't turning humans into zombies kinda the MO of zombies in most zombie fiction? I'd be very surprised if this came contained no way of turning a human into a zombie.

And I think the setup would be improved by the reverse transformation, probably less common but still. Mostly because, as joth said, too many zombies means everyone goes Romero.

[LaLight]

Also why would you think there will be only one nightkill?

[jotheonah]

If someone mathier than me wants to express this as formulae, that would be cool but not necessarily helpful per se.

Something like, let z = number of zombies and b = available brains per night

b = 2(1-z/14) would represent that expected brains per night is 2 times the chance that any given brain is human

z = 2b + 1  would represent the assumption that the number of zombies is the number that the available brain supply would support plus 1

So then we can substitute one equation into the other:

z = 2(2(1-z/14)) + 1
z = 4(1-z/14) + 1
z = 4 - 4z/14 + 1
z =  5 - 2z/7
z +  2z/7 = 5
7z + 2z = 35
9z = 35
z = 35/9 or just under 4.

Also I checked it with a calculator. So math plus a bunch of ad hoc assumptions says 4 zombies.

[jotheonah]

Someone who watches the show could weigh in. I assumed no cult mechanic because I figured faust would have mentioned such a thing in the "how zombies  work"  post and he didn't.

[jotheonah]

are shraeye and raerae in this game? I recently promised them I'd never do math again after it lost me a blitz game on Jim's site.

[LaLight]

The win condition for mafia is this:

You win when, at the start of a Day, a majority of living players is aligned with your factions, or nothing can stop that from happening.

Also this caught my eye. "Factions"

[MiX]

The win condition for mafia is this:

You win when, at the start of a Day, a majority of living players is aligned with your factions, or nothing can stop that from happening.

Also this caught my eye. "Factions"

joth, how does the flavor explain this?

[jotheonah]

The win condition for mafia is this:

You win when, at the start of a Day, a majority of living players is aligned with your factions, or nothing can stop that from happening.

Also this caught my eye. "Factions"

joth, how does the flavor explain this?

I don't know anything about flavor! Never seen the show.

[Glooble]

Someone who watches the show could weigh in. I assumed no cult mechanic because I figured faust would have mentioned such a thing in the "how zombies  work"  post and he didn't.

Is it really a cult mechanic if it doesn't affect alignment?

[MiX]

The win condition for mafia is this:

You win when, at the start of a Day, a majority of living players is aligned with your factions, or nothing can stop that from happening.

Also this caught my eye. "Factions"

joth, how does the flavor explain this?

I don't know anything about flavor! Never seen the show.

RVS talk aside, do we really lose anything from claiming who's human and who's zombie? There's probably some abilities that turn humans into zombies, or vice-versa, and hiding when those changes happen might be good, but I can't tell how bad it is if we all just claimed our initial status. What does everyone else think?

I was thinking this too. Doesn't the main character of the show solve crimes by eating brains? So she might need to know who zombies and humans are to be an effective cop.

But also, it's a faust setup. He's usually pretty good at thinking through and making mass claims punishing for town.

Scumslip.

Vote: joth

[LaLight]

vote: MiX

Even I read a Wiki article with couple of sentences of premise

[EFHW]

RVS talk aside, do we really lose anything from claiming who's human and who's zombie? There's probably some abilities that turn humans into zombies, or vice-versa, and hiding when those changes happen might be good, but I can't tell how bad it is if we all just claimed our initial status. What does everyone else think?

Scum zombies are a liability for them because "going Romero" hurts them more than a town!zombie death hurts us. If we had a claim, town!zombies should all claim human, hoping scum tries to eat them, and humans should claim zombie to avoid being eaten. Meaning a zombie/human claim would be very hard to trust.

PPE: lots

[MiX]

vote: MiX

Even I read a Wiki article with couple of sentences of premise

I don't know anything about flavor!

Doesn't the main character of the show solve crimes by eating brains?

I don't know, sounds contradictory to me. If joth had done that he would've said so earlier.

[EFHW]

The win condition for mafia is this:

You win when, at the start of a Day, a majority of living players is aligned with your factions, or nothing can stop that from happening.

Also this caught my eye. "Factions"

That looks like a typo to me.

[MiX]

The win condition for mafia is this:

You win when, at the start of a Day, a majority of living players is aligned with your factions, or nothing can stop that from happening.

Also this caught my eye. "Factions"

That looks like a typo to me.

Can any scum confirm they got this or the corrected version? It would help us in the long run I think.

[LaLight]

The win condition for mafia is this:

You win when, at the start of a Day, a majority of living players is aligned with your factions, or nothing can stop that from happening.

Also this caught my eye. "Factions"

That looks like a typo to me.

faust, can you please confirm if this is the typo?

[A Drowned Kernel]

Also, zombies can only eat human brains! So the expected number of brains per night also needs to be modified by the chance that the kill was not a zombie. And we don't know that unless we know the thing we're trying to figure out, the number of zombies. The more zombies there are, the fewer brains there are to go around.

I don't know if there factors in to your planning at all but it was established pregame that people will flip with their zombie/human status

[A Drowned Kernel]

The setup also mentions powers that only work while a player is a human or zombie so I assume there's a way to turn from one to the other

[EFHW]

The win condition for mafia is this:

You win when, at the start of a Day, a majority of living players is aligned with your factions, or nothing can stop that from happening.

Also this caught my eye. "Factions"

That looks like a typo to me.

Can any scum confirm they got this or the corrected version? It would help us in the long run I think.

laughed out loud at this one.

[MiX]

The win condition for mafia is this:

You win when, at the start of a Day, a majority of living players is aligned with your factions, or nothing can stop that from happening.

Also this caught my eye. "Factions"

That looks like a typo to me.

Can any scum confirm they got this or the corrected version? It would help us in the long run I think.

laughed out loud at this one.

Well I can stop playing now, clearly I won.

[shraeye]

Hold up, zombies aren't the bad guys??

[MiX]

Hold up, zombies aren't the bad guys??

+0.5 if you are not town-aligned

Not necessarily. Actually, who are the bad guys?

[WestCoastDidds]

MiX- that was a good joke +1

ADK- I think you are right. In lots of the zombie oeuvre people get turned into zombies after being attacked by a zombie. I assume there is some way that people become zombies.

Shraeye- If zombies are scum, they know who the other zombies are and can coordinate who to eat. The complicated system to see who gets eating preference suggests that the zombies are not known to each other. So I assume the zombies are not scum.

Joth- I hope you have a super fun birthday weekend with the wife and properly fete the new decade that she is beginning. Good times!

EFHW/Glooble- the puzzle job is the envy of everyone! I’d like to be a tester!

[Glooble]

EFHW/Glooble- the puzzle job is the envy of everyone! I’d like to be a tester!

I promise you its less exciting than it sounds.

Today is the annual warehouse sale though, and I just did my shift working register, so that was a nice change of pace.

[faust]

faust, can you please confirm if this is the typo?

Yes, sorry, this was a typo. I'll fix it.

[faust]

Vote Count 1.1

Galzria (2): SpaceAnemone, A Drowned Kernel
MiX (2): Glooble, LaLight
Glooble (1): EFHW
jotheonah (1): MiX

Not Voting (8): WestCoastDidds, DatSwan, jotheonah, raerae, Archetype, popsofctown, shraeye, Galzria

With 14 alive, it takes 8 to lynch. Day 1 ends on December 29, 2019, 02:30:00 am.

[A Drowned Kernel]

I've decided that zombies claiming is bad. Let's not do it

[jotheonah]

I watched a trailer once and remembered the basic premise. MiX is really grasping those straws.

[MiX]

I watched a trailer once and remembered the basic premise. MiX is really grasping those straws.

That's what I do best!

Vote: EFHW

[Archetype]

Vote: Galz for betraying my trust last game, how could I be so naive!

Faust mentions in the setup that a player’s status as human/zombie *may* change throughout the course of the game. Given that he took the time to mention that (and, like, how zombies work) I’d guess that humans can turn into zombies but not vice versa, unless anyone who knows the flavor of the show knows of a way that could happen.

[MiX]

Vote: Galz for betraying my trust last game, how could I be so naive!

Faust mentions in the setup that a player’s status as human/zombie *may* change throughout the course of the game. Given that he took the time to mention that (and, like, how zombies work) I’d guess that humans can turn into zombies but not vice versa, unless anyone who knows the flavor of the show knows of a way that could happen.

Can you elaborate on why you think it's not possible (or not likely) for zombies to be able to turn into humans?

[EFHW]

I watched a trailer once and remembered the basic premise. MiX is really grasping those straws.

That's what I do best!

Vote: EFHW

Great example!

[Archetype]

Vote: Galz for betraying my trust last game, how could I be so naive!

Faust mentions in the setup that a player’s status as human/zombie *may* change throughout the course of the game. Given that he took the time to mention that (and, like, how zombies work) I’d guess that humans can turn into zombies but not vice versa, unless anyone who knows the flavor of the show knows of a way that could happen.

Can you elaborate on why you think it's not possible (or not likely) for zombies to be able to turn into humans?

Only flavor reasons -  I can’t think of any media with zombies in it where they could turn back into humans, but maybe this show is different

[raerae]

I'm excited for this! Though also kinda busy.. the next ~36 hours are all either work or choir commitments, then I spend Sunday travelling, and then I start my xmas shopping on Monday :-P So apologies if it takes a few days for my availability to go up.

Vote: Galz for being awake and on the hunt for brains already :-P

START shopping?  Oh, I'm stressed for you now, got that covered, you can check it off your list. Holy buckets.

[SpaceAnemone]

There are zombie cures in the show, and people definitely can go back to being human after being zombies... there's just usually some plot reason why the main character can't do it!

You can google "izombie cure" for a wiki page about it.

I feel like it's likely that the setup allows for people going in both directions, but I would expect a net drift from human to zombie.

[raerae]

Hi friends!

I’m going to have the opposite availability of Space. Around until Monday afternoon and then off the grid intermittently until 28th. It’s a family holiday cruise in the Carribean, so I’m guessing off the grid in this case will be no Internetten access are all as opposed to just being busy. We’ll see.

So, here’s some fun new insight...we have heated blankets on the beds because our little house is super drafty and somewhat cold. If I turn one on during the day Scott and Brad (the orange cats!) will lay on it and fall asleep stretched out like cat pelts. The magical blanket transforms them from lazy cats to cats made of butter melting with the heat. I think it’s awesome.

Cats melt. It is known.

[raerae]

are shraeye and raerae in this game? I recently promised them I'd never do math again after it lost me a blitz game on Jim's site.

We're in. I'm judging you.

[Archetype]

There are zombie cures in the show, and people definitely can go back to being human after being zombies... there's just usually some plot reason why the main character can't do it!

You can google "izombie cure" for a wiki page about it.

I feel like it's likely that the setup allows for people going in both directions, but I would expect a net drift from human to zombie.

Cool! I’ll have to do some digging, that sounds interesting

[raerae]

Vote: Galz for betraying my trust last game, how could I be so naive!

Faust mentions in the setup that a player’s status as human/zombie *may* change throughout the course of the game. Given that he took the time to mention that (and, like, how zombies work) I’d guess that humans can turn into zombies but not vice versa, unless anyone who knows the flavor of the show knows of a way that could happen.

Can you elaborate on why you think it's not possible (or not likely) for zombies to be able to turn into humans?

Only flavor reasons -  I can’t think of any media with zombies in it where they could turn back into humans, but maybe this show is different

Z Nation is solid programming and explores this. That's positivity irrelevant to the game but important life information nonetheless.

[SpaceAnemone]

I'm excited for this! Though also kinda busy.. the next ~36 hours are all either work or choir commitments, then I spend Sunday travelling, and then I start my xmas shopping on Monday :-P So apologies if it takes a few days for my availability to go up.

Vote: Galz for being awake and on the hunt for brains already :-P

START shopping?  Oh, I'm stressed for you now, got that covered, you can check it off your list. Holy buckets.

It's fine! I've actually bought three things now, because I went shopping over my lunch break, so we don't need to stress :-)

Mostly I've trained my family to expect Oxfam Unwrapped gifts (i.e. charitable donations) instead of physical stuff, but I still like trying to get them small personal things too, so that's the sort of things I have to find.

[raerae]

I'm excited for this! Though also kinda busy.. the next ~36 hours are all either work or choir commitments, then I spend Sunday travelling, and then I start my xmas shopping on Monday :-P So apologies if it takes a few days for my availability to go up.

Vote: Galz for being awake and on the hunt for brains already :-P

START shopping?  Oh, I'm stressed for you now, got that covered, you can check it off your list. Holy buckets.

It's fine! I've actually bought three things now, because I went shopping over my lunch break, so we don't need to stress :-)

Mostly I've trained my family to expect Oxfam Unwrapped gifts (i.e. charitable donations) instead of physical stuff, but I still like trying to get them small personal things too, so that's the sort of things I have to find.

Even more stressful!! You're putting thought and care into gifts this late in the game. You are infinitely more brave than I could ever hope to be.

[Galzria]

I'm excited for this! Though also kinda busy.. the next ~36 hours are all either work or choir commitments, then I spend Sunday travelling, and then I start my xmas shopping on Monday :-P So apologies if it takes a few days for my availability to go up.

Vote: Galz for being awake and on the hunt for brains already :-P

START shopping?  Oh, I'm stressed for you now, got that covered, you can check it off your list. Holy buckets.

It's fine! I've actually bought three things now, because I went shopping over my lunch break, so we don't need to stress :-)

Mostly I've trained my family to expect Oxfam Unwrapped gifts (i.e. charitable donations) instead of physical stuff, but I still like trying to get them small personal things too, so that's the sort of things I have to find.

Even more stressful!! You're putting thought and care into gifts this late in the game. You are infinitely more brave than I could ever hope to be.

I’m done with my shopping!

Super proud too, because I’m usually a 23rd guy...

Well, mostly. Now I need to food shop. I’ve been asked to make pierogies this year, which will take a moderate amount of work. Guess the 23rd will be spent cooking!

Also, vote: ADK for being scum.

[Glooble]

Vote: Galz for betraying my trust last game, how could I be so naive!

Faust mentions in the setup that a player’s status as human/zombie *may* change throughout the course of the game. Given that he took the time to mention that (and, like, how zombies work) I’d guess that humans can turn into zombies but not vice versa, unless anyone who knows the flavor of the show knows of a way that could happen.

Can you elaborate on why you think it's not possible (or not likely) for zombies to be able to turn into humans?

Only flavor reasons -  I can’t think of any media with zombies in it where they could turn back into humans, but maybe this show is different

Z Nation is solid programming and explores this. That's positivity irrelevant to the game but important life information nonetheless.

Joth and I went to high school with the woman who played George in the last season of that show. She and Joth were in marching band together.

[jotheonah]

This is a true fact.

[Galzria]

Didds!

Have you done all your shopping yet?

[jotheonah]

3 more true facts:

1. I’m drunk
2. I’m at a karaoke bar
3. Hall and Oates’ “You make my dreams come true” is about 3 steps out of my range.

[Galzria]

3 more true facts:

1. I’m drunk
2. I’m at a karaoke bar
3. Hall and Oates’ “You make my dreams come true” is about 3 steps out of my range.

1. Jealous
2. Jealous
3. Me too!

[Swowl]

Did not realize this had started! Yay!

1) i am not a watcher of this show, but wiki would suggest that people can be turned not zombies. Don’t really know what to do with that info other than say it, but people seem to be lacking on flavor info... so there you go.

2) Galz doing his shopping prior to 23rd is skummy - Vote: Galz

3) i am gonna go and read the thread now.

[popsofctown]

We could also talk generally about brain-eating strategy. I mean, at the end of the day there will be one lynch. Should all zombies try to eat that brain? Should zombies flip a coin and go 50/50 between eating that brain and trying to predict the scum kill and targeting that brain for eating? If we all go for the town lynch brain, than any potential scum zombies would get to eat the nightkill victim's brain unopposed. And that means even fewer brains for town subsequent nights.

Honestly there can't be too many zombies at least to start, because the math is not great. Every zombie has to eat a brain every other night, each zombie can only eat one brain, and there's only going to be 2 new brains generated every day/night cycle (most likely). So mathematically, there's a maximum number of zombies the game can support without some number being guaranteed to Romero.

How can we work this out? If every zombie has to eat every other night, than each zombie needs 1/2 brain per day/night cycle. The game is making 2 brains per day/night cycle. Therefore, a sustainable number of zombies would be 4. That means that <=4 zombies is uninteresting -- they can all get along. Although, zombies can also eat brains they don't need to deprive other zombies of brains, so 4 or less isn't a guarantee of everyone eating well.

Also, zombies can only eat human brains! So the expected number of brains per night also needs to be modified by the chance that the kill was not a zombie. And we don't know that unless we know the thing we're trying to figure out, the number of zombies. The more zombies there are, the fewer brains there are to go around.

Considering all of this, and assuming there aren't mechanics that turn humans into zombies, I'm betting we have 4 or 5 zombies. Any more would make the competition for brains too fierce; less would make it too easy.

I'm not sure whether eating a brain makes it unavailable to be eaten again.
The way the opening post is written in sounds like maybe the same brain can be eaten over and over again.  Like the zombie just eats 100 calories' worth of brain every time there is still plenty more for the next night.

[popsofctown]

vote: galz just for his scum performance in bad idea

That's actually reason enough to never lynch him in my book. He deserves a scum win after that.

vote: Glooble. MiX is clearly town here. And I want to work at a jigsaw puzzle company!

Vote: EFHW, stop trying to emulate your scum meta.

Hi everyone again!

vote: Galz for the Bad Idea as well

Scum!LL does this more than town!LL but isn't exactly someone I want to lynch this early.


RVS talk aside, do we really lose anything from claiming who's human and who's zombie? There's probably some abilities that turn humans into zombies, or vice-versa, and hiding when those changes happen might be good, but I can't tell how bad it is if we all just claimed our initial status. What does everyone else think?

This is a scumpost btw

[popsofctown]

The win condition for mafia is this:

You win when, at the start of a Day, a majority of living players is aligned with your factions, or nothing can stop that from happening.

Also this caught my eye. "Factions"

That looks like a typo to me.

Can any scum confirm they got this or the corrected version? It would help us in the long run I think.

wait this is the same guy
is he good at faking scumslips
this is z axis thinking to come up with the joke even though the wifom is obvious

[popsofctown]

I planned to low effort this game before I signed up

But then I ended up signing up for way too many other games. 

So I'm definitely low efforting now. 

[popsofctown]

Vote: LaLight

not RVS

[popsofctown]

Also why would you think there will be only one nightkill?

this is pretty towny on a reread

[popsofctown]

Shoot: MiX

I thought a little bit about demanding a claim but I am afraid of a scum dayvig shooting me between the claim demand and me using my shot so it gets wasted

Also I'm not slowplaying this cause I have seen "two days less" dayvigs really mess up game momentums before I think it's important to have time

like five days of people reacting the right or wrong way to me dayvigging. 

Hopefully this is scum a lot of his posts seem off, I feel like he is a scum with an ability that can hide brains from our town zombies and he tried to trick us into exposing the weak zombies among us.  Or maybe he has a scum ability that turns us into zombies to get extra NKs from starvation and didn't want to waste shots on people who were already zombies

"I won the thread" is a scumslip I get tempted to post sometimes as scum too

don't hate me if this is a misvig guys

[popsofctown]

*"two days left"

[MiX]

Shoot: MiX

Real or can I read the rest of the thread?

You're scum, gg.

[MiX]

vote: galz just for his scum performance in bad idea

That's actually reason enough to never lynch him in my book. He deserves a scum win after that.

vote: Glooble. MiX is clearly town here. And I want to work at a jigsaw puzzle company!

Vote: EFHW, stop trying to emulate your scum meta.

Hi everyone again!

vote: Galz for the Bad Idea as well

Scum!LL does this more than town!LL but isn't exactly someone I want to lynch this early.


RVS talk aside, do we really lose anything from claiming who's human and who's zombie? There's probably some abilities that turn humans into zombies, or vice-versa, and hiding when those changes happen might be good, but I can't tell how bad it is if we all just claimed our initial status. What does everyone else think?

This is a scumpost btw

"This is scummy" zero explanation

The win condition for mafia is this:

You win when, at the start of a Day, a majority of living players is aligned with your factions, or nothing can stop that from happening.

Also this caught my eye. "Factions"

That looks like a typo to me.

Can any scum confirm they got this or the corrected version? It would help us in the long run I think.

wait this is the same guy
is he good at faking scumslips
this is z axis thinking to come up with the joke even though the wifom is obvious

"This is scummy because it's a scumslip" zero explanation


You do know I play differently than most, right? But no, you get to the thread and instantly dayvig me. Alright scum.

Is it real or is it just a test?

Vote: pops

[WestCoastDidds]

3 more true facts:

1. I’m drunk
2. I’m at a karaoke bar
3. Hall and Oates’ “You make my dreams come true” is about 3 steps out of my range.

They aren’t the brothers of blue eyed soul for nothing

[MiX]

Shoot: MiX

I thought a little bit about demanding a claim but I am afraid of a scum dayvig shooting me between the claim demand and me using my shot so it gets wasted

Also I'm not slowplaying this cause I have seen "two days less" dayvigs really mess up game momentums before I think it's important to have time

like five days of people reacting the right or wrong way to me dayvigging. 

Hopefully this is scum a lot of his posts seem off, I feel like he is a scum with an ability that can hide brains from our town zombies and he tried to trick us into exposing the weak zombies among us.  Or maybe he has a scum ability that turns us into zombies to get extra NKs from starvation and didn't want to waste shots on people who were already zombies

"I won the thread" is a scumslip I get tempted to post sometimes as scum too

don't hate me if this is a misvig guys

"Shoot: someone I haven't interacted with ever in a mafia game"

"I thought a little about wanting a claim but I decided random kills were better. Also I know there's a scum dayvig since I am one."

"I'm not slowplaying because I shot first thing on sight"

How do people react to shooting me? You do know that's like standard procedure for someone who doesn't know me, right? Anyway, "Now I get some heat, hopefully not being today's lynch, or if I am, whatever, I spent my dayvig"

"Hopefully I shot my traitor and he conveniently has a PR that wants zombies to claim (nevermind the rest of the scum team's PRs, those don't exist) and he tried to trick us into doing something that is pro-him, how dare he! Or maybe he has another very specific PR, I didn't get ideas from my scum PRs btw"

I don't even know how to answer this.

[MiX]

Shoot: MiX

Real or can I read the rest of the thread?

You're scum, gg.

Waiting for confirmation to claim...my flip has a bunch of random names if I don't claim what they were.

[WestCoastDidds]

Didds!

Have you done all your shopping yet?

Hi Galzy! How are you and how are things?! 

Shopping is done, but we won’t see the kids and open presents until next weekend. More fun...I’m going to see Star Wars this morning and tomorrow leaving for the beach. Where drinks with tiny umbrellas will be mine.

[WestCoastDidds]

Holy cow!

Sorry, MiX. That was unexpected.

[MiX]

3 more true facts:

1. I’m drunk
2. I’m at a karaoke bar
3. Hall and Oates’ “You make my dreams come true” is about 3 steps out of my range.

They aren’t the brothers of blue eyed soul for nothing

Didds!

Have you done all your shopping yet?

Hi Galzy! How are you and how are things?! 

Shopping is done, but we won’t see the kids and open presents until next weekend. More fun...I’m going to see Star Wars this morning and tomorrow leaving for the beach. Where drinks with tiny umbrellas will be mine.

I like how everyone's talking like it's BM but me and pops are in a duel for death. It speaks tons about us.

PPE: Thanks...

[Glooble]

This is not the way you dayvig.

[MiX]

This is not the way you dayvig.

Literally? Because that was an accepted syntax last game that had dayvigs.

[Glooble]

I just meant it’s way too early, especially if you haven’t played with someone before. Everyone thinks MiX is scum in their first game with him.

[MiX]

I just meant it’s way too early, especially if you haven’t played with someone before. Everyone thinks MiX is scum in their first game with him.

Yeah...obviously it's too early. Sucks that if you don't know me then you wouldn't know everyone scumreads me. Should I claim or should I wait for him to confirm his shot? What timezone is pops in?

[A Drowned Kernel]

vote: pops

I thought a little bit about demanding a claim but I am afraid of a scum dayvig shooting me between the claim demand and me using my shot so it gets wasted

This is a wild line of thought. Imagine this scenario:

You: "I'm thinking about dayvigging mix"
Other player: *dayvigs you*

Assuming you flip as a town dayvig, in what world do we not immediately lynch that player and mix?

[MiX]

vote: pops

I thought a little bit about demanding a claim but I am afraid of a scum dayvig shooting me between the claim demand and me using my shot so it gets wasted

This is a wild line of thought. Imagine this scenario:

You: "I'm thinking about dayvigging mix"
Other player: *dayvigs you*

Assuming you flip as a town dayvig, in what world do we not immediately lynch that player and mix?

In the world where he flips scum, obviously. You're completely right and I was about to mention that too.

[A Drowned Kernel]

Should I claim or should I wait for him to confirm his shot?

Can I convince you to wait? I do have a secondary theory about all of this.

[WestCoastDidds]

Ooohhh....theories! Go, go, ADK!

[EFHW]

I just meant it’s way too early, especially if you haven’t played with someone before. Everyone thinks MiX is scum in their first game with him.

I agree that this was reckless,  but you seem unusually confident that MiX is town.

[jotheonah]

Vote: pops

[MiX]

Vote: pops

Vote: joth

[faust]

MiX has been killed! They were Angus McDonough, the Town-aligned Human Targeted Backup Zombie Semi-Random Vigilante-Neighborizer, and they were human.

[faust]

Vote Count 1.2

Galzria (3): SpaceAnemone, Archetype, DatSwan
Glooble (1): EFHW
A Drowned Kernel (1): Galzria
LaLight (1): popsofctown
popsofctown (2): A Drowned Kernel, jotheonah

Not Voting (5): WestCoastDidds, raerae, shraeye, Glooble, LaLight

With 13 alive, it takes 7 to lynch. Day 1 ends on December 29, 2019, 02:30:00 am.

[A Drowned Kernel]

I was kind of hoping pops would turn out to be a desperado

[Glooble]

I just meant it’s way too early, especially if you haven’t played with someone before. Everyone thinks MiX is scum in their first game with him.

I agree that this was reckless,  but you seem unusually confident that MiX is town.

Not confident at all that MiX is town. I just said everyone thinks MiX is scum. Sometimes they're right.

Silver lining- extra brain to eat.

[popsofctown]

Most scum dayvigs I have seen are submitted by PM while the town ones are required to be in thread.  I was not worried about Mix being a town dayvig

Some people are hinting like it was rude because MiX didn't get to dig into the game but like if you dayvig someone when they are getting into their groove that can be even ruder I felt like this is nicer but also I think this has better win% if we have more time to discuss between the shot and lynch

[raerae]

So that was a lot to wake up to. Some people haven't even posted yet.

[Archetype]

Most scum dayvigs I have seen are submitted by PM while the town ones are required to be in thread.  I was not worried about Mix being a town dayvig

Some people are hinting like it was rude because MiX didn't get to dig into the game but like if you dayvig someone when they are getting into their groove that can be even ruder I felt like this is nicer but also I think this has better win% if we have more time to discuss between the shot and lynch

I know you play a lot on mafia scum so if you can, could you potentially point me to a game where there was a town dayvig that posted in-thread and a scum one who did so secretly? Because I’ve only ever seen them treated the same way and always in thread.

I think the niceness/rudeness is overshadowed by a reckless shot being anti town. On what basis do you think we’ll have a higher win % with more time to discuss between shot and lynch?

[Galzria]

vote: Glooble

[Glooble]

vote: Glooble

Really, really bad idea.

[A Drowned Kernel]

So I'm going to strongly advocate for lynching pops, and to that end I'm going to make a partial claim: I also have the ability to cause a second day death, and I'm skeptical that town would have more than one such ability (especially since mix was apparently also some sort of vig)

[EFHW]

I keep thinking it would be a crazy scum move. Getting lynched if you are wrong is very possible,  and losing a team member Day 1 is pretty terrible for scum. This is WIFOM, of course, but what would be the motive to take a risk like this? Town has the hope of fame and glory if they are right,  at least.

[shraeye]

We could also talk generally about brain-eating strategy. I mean, at the end of the day there will be one lynch. Should all zombies try to eat that brain? Should zombies flip a coin and go 50/50 between eating that brain and trying to predict the scum kill and targeting that brain for eating? If we all go for the town lynch brain, than any potential scum zombies would get to eat the nightkill victim's brain unopposed. And that means even fewer brains for town subsequent nights.

Honestly there can't be too many zombies at least to start, because the math is not great. Every zombie has to eat a brain every other night, each zombie can only eat one brain, and there's only going to be 2 new brains generated every day/night cycle (most likely). So mathematically, there's a maximum number of zombies the game can support without some number being guaranteed to Romero.

How can we work this out? If every zombie has to eat every other night, than each zombie needs 1/2 brain per day/night cycle. The game is making 2 brains per day/night cycle. Therefore, a sustainable number of zombies would be 4. That means that <=4 zombies is uninteresting -- they can all get along. Although, zombies can also eat brains they don't need to deprive other zombies of brains, so 4 or less isn't a guarantee of everyone eating well.

Also, zombies can only eat human brains! So the expected number of brains per night also needs to be modified by the chance that the kill was not a zombie. And we don't know that unless we know the thing we're trying to figure out, the number of zombies. The more zombies there are, the fewer brains there are to go around.

Considering all of this, and assuming there aren't mechanics that turn humans into zombies, I'm betting we have 4 or 5 zombies. Any more would make the competition for brains too fierce; less would make it too easy.

I'm not sure whether eating a brain makes it unavailable to be eaten again.
The way the opening post is written in sounds like maybe the same brain can be eaten over and over again.  Like the zombie just eats 100 calories' worth of brain every time there is still plenty more for the next night.

iZombie - Long Dark crossover

[EFHW]

I just checked the OP and only one zombie can eat a particular brain. Really not sure what Shraeye is getting at.

[shraeye]

wowee zowie.  I'm not sure what MiX's words all mean; but whatver.

I'm not sold that ADK's proposed ability prevents pops from being town.  Also, that seemed entirely like a joke-dayvig that I didn't believe until the flipo happened....Didds, why did you believe it?

[Glooble]

So I'm going to strongly advocate for lynching pops, and to that end I'm going to make a partial claim: I also have the ability to cause a second day death, and I'm skeptical that town would have more than one such ability (especially since mix was apparently also some sort of vig)

Maybe the proliferation of such abilities is to ensure adequate brains for munching?

[Archetype]

I keep thinking it would be a crazy scum move. Getting lynched if you are wrong is very possible,  and losing a team member Day 1 is pretty terrible for scum. This is WIFOM, of course, but what would be the motive to take a risk like this? Town has the hope of fame and glory if they are right,  at least.

Town!joth did a fairly similar thing in the last BM game and he got lynched for it...another layer of WIFOM if a town member would do it again.

[LaLight]

vote: pops

[Glooble]

vote: popsofctown

[popsofctown]

My last game to include a dayvig, it was a Desperado.  It was a town player several people were scumreading that had the Desperado power.  And it was a town player many people were scumreading that was shot.  Theoretically that's a good Desperado shot, but the shot occured when neither player was actually topic of the day, and I feel like the way it redirected the course of the game halfway through a day phase was bad for the game.
Maybe if I did tons of maths and figured out my best strongest read and shot there I would kill the dayflow and maybe come out a bit better than breaking even but I don't want to effort this one.

My most recent game with day actions was Magical Girls UPick light and shadow (not counting ones that only came into play after I died in Magius Record).  Players in that game reported in thread that they got PMs about having their day abilities blocked by day-roleblockers.  I don't remember how many of them flipped scum, I died pretty early in it too.  But that's what made me feel like I should expect private action that can disrupt what I'm doing, the reason I was 80/20 on that disruption being a kill is because of the setup spec others have pointed out about brains + some stuff in my role PM hinting at many dayvigs possibly.

I think any combination could be good or evil

[Swowl]

So... Just want to make sure I have the timeline correct here...

First...everyone banters, hellos, RVS votes ect.
After a while there is almost some semblance of a wagon... except not really because like literally every vote was just rando cast out still.
OK...
Then Pops comes and checks in, does what appears to be some catch up (basing that on the posts and quotes I read over).... votes for LL... small stall, and Vigs MiX.

So, lol, because someone could tell that to me as a story about a game they were playing that I wasn't in... and I would be like "no, dude, your're missing something... lemme read that". However, that is actually pretty much... what like... happened. Soooooo... prepare for super weird WIFOM-y Swan theory post that everyone will hate and find me skummy for!

[A Drowned Kernel]

I keep thinking it would be a crazy scum move. Getting lynched if you are wrong is very possible,  and losing a team member Day 1 is pretty terrible for scum. This is WIFOM, of course, but what would be the motive to take a risk like this? Town has the hope of fame and glory if they are right,  at least.

To me, pops comes off as an experienced enough player to do it for the WIFOM

[A Drowned Kernel]

Question for pops: you say you felt that using your power early in the day was better than later. Why not save the power for the start of a later day?

[Galzria]

vote: Glooble

Really, really bad idea.

Why is this a really, really bad idea?

[Galzria]

I keep thinking it would be a crazy scum move. Getting lynched if you are wrong is very possible,  and losing a team member Day 1 is pretty terrible for scum. This is WIFOM, of course, but what would be the motive to take a risk like this? Town has the hope of fame and glory if they are right,  at least.

To me, pops comes off as an experienced enough player to do it for the WIFOM

Pops is experienced enough to do this as scum, yes. He’s also experienced enough to do this as Town if he felt it was the right play, and he’s not the type to solicit opinion first.

Pops is not scummy for having done this. You want my vote there, you’ll need to convince me why he wouldn’t have done this as Town, not why he might have done it as scum.

[Galzria]

Fun fact for those that don’t know:

Pops more or less brought Mafia to f.ds, hosting the first ever game (I specced but didn’t play), Mafia I.

[A Drowned Kernel]

I keep thinking it would be a crazy scum move. Getting lynched if you are wrong is very possible,  and losing a team member Day 1 is pretty terrible for scum. This is WIFOM, of course, but what would be the motive to take a risk like this? Town has the hope of fame and glory if they are right,  at least.

To me, pops comes off as an experienced enough player to do it for the WIFOM

Pops is experienced enough to do this as scum, yes. He’s also experienced enough to do this as Town if he felt it was the right play, and he’s not the type to solicit opinion first.

Pops is not scummy for having done this. You want my vote there, you’ll need to convince me why he wouldn’t have done this as Town, not why he might have done it as scum.

I mean the obvious answer is that it seems unlikely that he would have a strong enough read on mix at that point to justify shooting from the hip like that

[Galzria]

I keep thinking it would be a crazy scum move. Getting lynched if you are wrong is very possible,  and losing a team member Day 1 is pretty terrible for scum. This is WIFOM, of course, but what would be the motive to take a risk like this? Town has the hope of fame and glory if they are right,  at least.

To me, pops comes off as an experienced enough player to do it for the WIFOM

Pops is experienced enough to do this as scum, yes. He’s also experienced enough to do this as Town if he felt it was the right play, and he’s not the type to solicit opinion first.

Pops is not scummy for having done this. You want my vote there, you’ll need to convince me why he wouldn’t have done this as Town, not why he might have done it as scum.

I mean the obvious answer is that it seems unlikely that he would have a strong enough read on mix at that point to justify shooting from the hip like that

Read aside, did he not create a flip (regardless of alignment) to make D1 more than just a bunch of randomness? The D1 lynch is generally accepted to be more or less a crap shoot anyway - we’re just getting ourselves to D2 where we’ll have real information to go on. We now have real information - both about Pops and about MiX - with which to proceed through D1.

[A Drowned Kernel]

So what's your read on pops based on this? What information have you gleaned based on mix's flip?

[jotheonah]

Idk guys. I got lynched for using my dayvig in a reckless unexpected way and hitting town. So I fee it’s only fair we have the same policy for pops.

On the other hand, I WAS town. So that sort of proves that pops could be town here.

Pops, did you read “bad idea”? We’re you aware of the immediate history here?

[WestCoastDidds]

wowee zowie.  I'm not sure what MiX's words all mean; but whatver.

I'm not sold that ADK's proposed ability prevents pops from being town.  Also, that seemed entirely like a joke-dayvig that I didn't believe until the flipo happened....Didds, why did you believe it?

Why did I believe MiX has been killed? Pops didn’t say it with any hint of a joke, and in my last few games, I got day-incinerated by MiX and then in some other game there was a dayvig. In my limited experience, only Joseph makes that joke. Plus I’m gullible so I start with believing.

And then Mix got mad at me for chattering, which is fair but come on...its me, and he seemed legit flummoxed. It didn’t even occur to me to think it was faux.

[Glooble]

I keep thinking it would be a crazy scum move. Getting lynched if you are wrong is very possible,  and losing a team member Day 1 is pretty terrible for scum. This is WIFOM, of course, but what would be the motive to take a risk like this? Town has the hope of fame and glory if they are right,  at least.

To me, pops comes off as an experienced enough player to do it for the WIFOM

Pops is experienced enough to do this as scum, yes. He’s also experienced enough to do this as Town if he felt it was the right play, and he’s not the type to solicit opinion first.

Pops is not scummy for having done this. You want my vote there, you’ll need to convince me why he wouldn’t have done this as Town, not why he might have done it as scum.

I mean the obvious answer is that it seems unlikely that he would have a strong enough read on mix at that point to justify shooting from the hip like that

Read aside, did he not create a flip (regardless of alignment) to make D1 more than just a bunch of randomness? The D1 lynch is generally accepted to be more or less a crap shoot anyway - we’re just getting ourselves to D2 where we’ll have real information to go on. We now have real information - both about Pops and about MiX - with which to proceed through D1.

We’d have a lot more information if he’d waited until MiX had had more interactions that we could analyze. He shot before everyone had even posted.

[popsofctown]

Question for pops: you say you felt that using your power early in the day was better than later. Why not save the power for the start of a later day?

Something about my rolecard that I will not disclose either incentivizes or requires me to use the ability during day phase 1.   I would say if that were not the case, using the dayvig in this way is Strictly Better, because it closely mimics a nightvig.  (The odds of getting nightkilled before you can use it are pretty small)

[popsofctown]

I keep thinking it would be a crazy scum move. Getting lynched if you are wrong is very possible,  and losing a team member Day 1 is pretty terrible for scum. This is WIFOM, of course, but what would be the motive to take a risk like this? Town has the hope of fame and glory if they are right,  at least.

To me, pops comes off as an experienced enough player to do it for the WIFOM

Pops is experienced enough to do this as scum, yes. He’s also experienced enough to do this as Town if he felt it was the right play, and he’s not the type to solicit opinion first.

Pops is not scummy for having done this. You want my vote there, you’ll need to convince me why he wouldn’t have done this as Town, not why he might have done it as scum.

I mean the obvious answer is that it seems unlikely that he would have a strong enough read on mix at that point to justify shooting from the hip like that

There is no strength of read on player X where suddenly it is exciting to dayvig the player.  If I get a 90% scumread on X, then I want to lynch him and force his teammates to expose their Inability to bus.  Vig shots traditionally land on weaker reads for this reason.
Getting a player up to L-1 or L-serious and dayvigging at that point was something I thought about but it magnifies the exact game tempo disruption considerations I am concerned about. 

Keep in mind the theorycrafting point that the bar for vig to be 1 correct effectual usage is not "the target flipped scum".  The bar is actually, "the target either flipped scum or was going to be a mislynch at some point in the game.  Town now have an additional lynch.  That lynch will hit scum (because if it doesn't, town would have lost in either case).  I was taught this by a user just this year and it blew my mind, I applied it just two games later.

[popsofctown]

Idk guys. I got lynched for using my dayvig in a reckless unexpected way and hitting town. So I fee it’s only fair we have the same policy for pops.

On the other hand, I WAS town. So that sort of proves that pops could be town here.

Pops, did you read “bad idea”? We’re you aware of the immediate history here?

I read enough of the setup to see it was a bastard game.  Bastard games suck.  The way you're posting it sounds like someone misvigged with a dayvig.

Sometimes bad mechanical play has an explanation.  The lazy thing to do is remind yourself that if the player doing the play is town, you can't have the worst performance in the game, so if you play to your imaginary Xbox live achievements instead of your wincon you can just safely lynch.

Putting the effort into reading bad mechanical play and determining if it is scum is exciting and rewarding though.  One of my favorite moments this year was arriving at a hard townread on a player and who had fakeclaimed cop and fakeclaimed an innocent on scum.  I've had a couple other puzzles, most of them when I was speccing.

I'm not going to insist on this level or effort sorting my own slot, but I will demand it for jorheonah because I kind of remember him and his posts are funny and his avatar is still isotropic bureaucrat so therefore he has a good chance to make a mechanical misplay this game.

[jotheonah]

I think pops is full of it but he’s earned an unvote for now. Knee jerk lynch the dayvig is pretty lazy.

[shraeye]

I think pops is full of it but he’s earned an unvote for now. Knee jerk lynch the dayvig is pretty lazy.

It was then and it is now.  Lynching pops isn't necessarily wrong, but kneejerk lynching him is as bad or worse than "he vigged mix so early we don't have any interactions to read"

Rushing to lynch him straight up nullifies whatever positives we can piece together.

[A Drowned Kernel]

I keep thinking it would be a crazy scum move. Getting lynched if you are wrong is very possible,  and losing a team member Day 1 is pretty terrible for scum. This is WIFOM, of course, but what would be the motive to take a risk like this? Town has the hope of fame and glory if they are right,  at least.

To me, pops comes off as an experienced enough player to do it for the WIFOM

Pops is experienced enough to do this as scum, yes. He’s also experienced enough to do this as Town if he felt it was the right play, and he’s not the type to solicit opinion first.

Pops is not scummy for having done this. You want my vote there, you’ll need to convince me why he wouldn’t have done this as Town, not why he might have done it as scum.

I mean the obvious answer is that it seems unlikely that he would have a strong enough read on mix at that point to justify shooting from the hip like that

There is no strength of read on player X where suddenly it is exciting to dayvig the player.  If I get a 90% scumread on X, then I want to lynch him and force his teammates to expose their Inability to bus.  Vig shots traditionally land on weaker reads for this reason.
Getting a player up to L-1 or L-serious and dayvigging at that point was something I thought about but it magnifies the exact game tempo disruption considerations I am concerned about. 

Keep in mind the theorycrafting point that the bar for vig to be 1 correct effectual usage is not "the target flipped scum".  The bar is actually, "the target either flipped scum or was going to be a mislynch at some point in the game.  Town now have an additional lynch.  That lynch will hit scum (because if it doesn't, town would have lost in either case).  I was taught this by a user just this year and it blew my mind, I applied it just two games later.

I understand your point but when I weigh the likelihood that you had reached that bar of certainty regarding mix vs. the likelihood that your move was a WIFOM-based scum ploy I'm still leaning toward the latter

[EFHW]

So I'm going to strongly advocate for lynching pops, and to that end I'm going to make a partial claim: I also have the ability to cause a second day death, and I'm skeptical that town would have more than one such ability (especially since mix was apparently also some sort of vig)

Do you mean Day 2 or second as in in addition to the lynch?

[A Drowned Kernel]

So I'm going to strongly advocate for lynching pops, and to that end I'm going to make a partial claim: I also have the ability to cause a second day death, and I'm skeptical that town would have more than one such ability (especially since mix was apparently also some sort of vig)

Do you mean Day 2 or second as in in addition to the lynch?

In addition to the lynch

[Swowl]

nvm the big post isn't coming. haven't had the time and by the time I sit down to type the middle of it up, everyone has already covered everything.

Essentially, I do not see an upside for pops shooting if they are skum. Like I get there is the "duh, they get a kill off thing"... but thinking way too much through, I just keep thinking that the downsides in all scenarios out weigh the upsides. That being said, don't really see the point as town either. Seems strange to just shoot it off randomly like that. In a black and white world where the options are ; 1) Pops is Skum, or 2) Pops is Town... I am way more of heavy lean on 2.

[Swowl]

Also, regarding ADK and their ability to "vig or something"...
Currently my belief is that I do not like the idea of having ADK just shoot Pops (or anyone else, honestly) today.

14 player game, we lost a town player already. If Pops is town, and we mis lynch.... that could be starting us off in a pretty big ditch.

Not to be overly aggressive on the same point... but, in a scenario where ADK is skum themselves with a day vig shot, it gives them a good smoke screen to be able to use it without being overly scrutinized.

[Swowl]

Also, from the big post I wanted to do would be the point that I think Galz made?

That is the one regarding the information of the flip - IDK how much info you all are working with, but I started the game with like zero bearing on the extent of factions and value of my role. After the flip, I now can put some of the pieces together... which, as mentioned, is a neat thing to have day 1.

[Swowl]

also
unvote

I was on galz as rvs still.

[shraeye]

vote: Galz

I'll keep the balance then.

[SpaceAnemone]

I'm sort of caught up, but confused about that vigging and need to iso Pops to work out what I think in more detail. However, for now this post is mostly just prod-dodging because it's late and I have to be up early in the morning for that xmas shopping expedition. Very sorry for being so low-content here. Will get properly into this tomorrow night I hope!

[A Drowned Kernel]

nvm the big post isn't coming. haven't had the time and by the time I sit down to type the middle of it up, everyone has already covered everything.

Essentially, I do not see an upside for pops shooting if they are skum. Like I get there is the "duh, they get a kill off thing"... but thinking way too much through, I just keep thinking that the downsides in all scenarios out weigh the upsides. That being said, don't really see the point as town either. Seems strange to just shoot it off randomly like that. In a black and white world where the options are ; 1) Pops is Skum, or 2) Pops is Town... I am way more of heavy lean on 2.

The upside as I see it is that pops makes himself the center of attention for the day, allowing his partners to avoid it, while having a good chance of avoiding being the lynch, because everyone's going to go "well why would scum do that?"

[EFHW]

nvm the big post isn't coming. haven't had the time and by the time I sit down to type the middle of it up, everyone has already covered everything.

Essentially, I do not see an upside for pops shooting if they are skum. Like I get there is the "duh, they get a kill off thing"... but thinking way too much through, I just keep thinking that the downsides in all scenarios out weigh the upsides. That being said, don't really see the point as town either. Seems strange to just shoot it off randomly like that. In a black and white world where the options are ; 1) Pops is Skum, or 2) Pops is Town... I am way more of heavy lean on 2.

The upside as I see it is that pops makes himself the center of attention for the day, allowing his partners to avoid it, while having a good chance of avoiding being the lynch, because everyone's going to go "well why would scum do that?"

What's the payoff? An extra kill doesn't seem worth the risk.

[Archetype]

nvm the big post isn't coming. haven't had the time and by the time I sit down to type the middle of it up, everyone has already covered everything.

Essentially, I do not see an upside for pops shooting if they are skum. Like I get there is the "duh, they get a kill off thing"... but thinking way too much through, I just keep thinking that the downsides in all scenarios out weigh the upsides. That being said, don't really see the point as town either. Seems strange to just shoot it off randomly like that. In a black and white world where the options are ; 1) Pops is Skum, or 2) Pops is Town... I am way more of heavy lean on 2.

The upside as I see it is that pops makes himself the center of attention for the day, allowing his partners to avoid it, while having a good chance of avoiding being the lynch, because everyone's going to go "well why would scum do that?"

What's the payoff? An extra kill doesn't seem worth the risk.

Speculating, but he could only have his vig limited to the first day or something. Could be the case as town but I feel like he would have said as much.

[Archetype]

My biggest hang up with pops being town is if he thought MiX was scum, I feel like he’d want to let other people way in a bit (or MiX himself) in order to have more interactions to pull from post-death. D1 interactions can be kinda eh, but I still feel like that would have been more beneficial.

[A Drowned Kernel]

nvm the big post isn't coming. haven't had the time and by the time I sit down to type the middle of it up, everyone has already covered everything.

Essentially, I do not see an upside for pops shooting if they are skum. Like I get there is the "duh, they get a kill off thing"... but thinking way too much through, I just keep thinking that the downsides in all scenarios out weigh the upsides. That being said, don't really see the point as town either. Seems strange to just shoot it off randomly like that. In a black and white world where the options are ; 1) Pops is Skum, or 2) Pops is Town... I am way more of heavy lean on 2.

The upside as I see it is that pops makes himself the center of attention for the day, allowing his partners to avoid it, while having a good chance of avoiding being the lynch, because everyone's going to go "well why would scum do that?"

What's the payoff? An extra kill doesn't seem worth the risk.

This conversation we're having right now, where multiple people are convincing themselves that pops wouldn't do this as scum, is conceivably a payoff in itself

[WestCoastDidds]

I’m still kind of reeling...I’m still not accustomed to the whole big kill thing. I don’t think pops is scummy for doing it, it just seems like it didn’t have much utility.

Although, Swans right...seeing MiX’s flip helped make some of my clauses more clear. I wish MiX had explained them.

[EFHW]

nvm the big post isn't coming. haven't had the time and by the time I sit down to type the middle of it up, everyone has already covered everything.

Essentially, I do not see an upside for pops shooting if they are skum. Like I get there is the "duh, they get a kill off thing"... but thinking way too much through, I just keep thinking that the downsides in all scenarios out weigh the upsides. That being said, don't really see the point as town either. Seems strange to just shoot it off randomly like that. In a black and white world where the options are ; 1) Pops is Skum, or 2) Pops is Town... I am way more of heavy lean on 2.

The upside as I see it is that pops makes himself the center of attention for the day, allowing his partners to avoid it, while having a good chance of avoiding being the lynch, because everyone's going to go "well why would scum do that?"

What's the payoff? An extra kill doesn't seem worth the risk.

Speculating, but he could only have his vig limited to the first day or something. Could be the case as town but I feel like he would have said as much.

I think he said that was the case.

[Archetype]

I think he said that was the case.

Must have missed that, thanks. Makes it a bit scummier

[shraeye]

It's scummier that you missed it? Or it's scummier that he had to do it early???  This just sounds like it contradicts your earlier musings, or did I misread something

[popsofctown]

vote: LaLight

No one has reacted in an even scummier way, as of yet.

I think LaLight thinks it requires no justification to explain a vote on someone who performed a dayvig blindly, similar to how a vote on a cop guilty requires no justification.

However a townie is likely to have an "emotional" response, a natural strong opinion about a dayvig, a why the heck did you do that, or an aha! level of conclusion interpreting the behavior.  I think it was a mistake to switch targets, I should have stuck with LaLight as my dayvig.

[A Drowned Kernel]

vote: LaLight

No one has reacted in an even scummier way, as of yet.

I think LaLight thinks it requires no justification to explain a vote on someone who performed a dayvig blindly, similar to how a vote on a cop guilty requires no justification.

However a townie is likely to have an "emotional" response, a natural strong opinion about a dayvig, a why the heck did you do that, or an aha! level of conclusion interpreting the behavior.  I think it was a mistake to switch targets, I should have stuck with LaLight as my dayvig.

Question: did you start your sequence of posts planning to vig someone at the end of it?

[Glooble]

So we've learned a few things.

1. Some players, at least, have two sets of powers - one for when they are human, and one for when they are a zombie. Or that was my interpretation of MiX's flip anyway.

My role pm heavily implies that there is at least one town-aligned player who can turn humans into zombies. Given the extra info from MiX's flip, it seems to me that if there is a player whose zombie power is much better than their human power and they are currently human, such a player might want to volunteer for zombification. Obviously, this increases the chances of a player going Romero. But -from a game-design perspective, a town-aligned compulsive zombie-izer makes a lot of sense, and if we did have such a role, it would be good for a player who would rather be a zombie than a human to say as much.

2. A dayvig shot that can only be used Day 1 (or is much better if used day 1) makes a lot of sense with the brain eating mechanic. I can see faust wanting to make sure multiple brains would be available night 1. Pops' behavior is still a little questionable to me, but given the additional info that he was incentivized to use his shot today, it's less scummy to me. So...

unvote

[EFHW]

@pops: Was your dayvig compulsive?

[popsofctown]

vote: LaLight

No one has reacted in an even scummier way, as of yet.

I think LaLight thinks it requires no justification to explain a vote on someone who performed a dayvig blindly, similar to how a vote on a cop guilty requires no justification.

However a townie is likely to have an "emotional" response, a natural strong opinion about a dayvig, a why the heck did you do that, or an aha! level of conclusion interpreting the behavior.  I think it was a mistake to switch targets, I should have stuck with LaLight as my dayvig.

Question: did you start your sequence of posts planning to vig someone at the end of it?

I had a bloc of posts that was actually two separate sitdowns, when I started the reread for the second sitdown the reread was for somebody to die.  About a day had passed, therefore everyone ought to have posted.  Somehow everyone's tardiness has been my responsibility, I find it incomprehensible that you guys run 7 day dayphases but also want to check the thread every two days, and that dynamic just wanted me to get the shot off and get the uninterrupted dayphase starting even sooner (I didn't see that some posters hadn't posted altogether, but I did notice there weren't many pages to review)

[popsofctown]

My dayvig was either compulsive or came with an incentive for it to occur earlier in the game.  I don't think it's pro-town to out which of those it is. 

[LaLight]

vote: LaLight

No one has reacted in an even scummier way, as of yet.

I think LaLight thinks it requires no justification to explain a vote on someone who performed a dayvig blindly, similar to how a vote on a cop guilty requires no justification.

However a townie is likely to have an "emotional" response, a natural strong opinion about a dayvig, a why the heck did you do that, or an aha! level of conclusion interpreting the behavior.  I think it was a mistake to switch targets, I should have stuck with LaLight as my dayvig.

I think it's always wrong to shoot. Simple as that. Unless you're scum who now tries to prove that your dayvig was compulsory

[Archetype]

It's scummier that you missed it? Or it's scummier that he had to do it early???  This just sounds like it contradicts your earlier musings, or did I misread something

That he had to do it early, if it was compulsive. From a design perspective makes it seem more like a scum power to temper the benefit of an additional kill.

[Glooble]

It's scummier that you missed it? Or it's scummier that he had to do it early???  This just sounds like it contradicts your earlier musings, or did I misread something

That he had to do it early, if it was compulsive. From a design perspective makes it seem more like a scum power to temper the benefit of an additional kill.

Disagree. The brain-eating mechanic makes it NAI, since the goal of the power is, presumably, to make sure there are enough brains for all the zombies to eat.

[A Drowned Kernel]

vote: LaLight

No one has reacted in an even scummier way, as of yet.

I think LaLight thinks it requires no justification to explain a vote on someone who performed a dayvig blindly, similar to how a vote on a cop guilty requires no justification.

However a townie is likely to have an "emotional" response, a natural strong opinion about a dayvig, a why the heck did you do that, or an aha! level of conclusion interpreting the behavior.  I think it was a mistake to switch targets, I should have stuck with LaLight as my dayvig.

I think it's always wrong to shoot. Simple as that. Unless you're scum who now tries to prove that your dayvig was compulsory

What do you mean by "always wrong to shoot"?

[shraeye]

If town should never shoot in that case, then scum should never shoot as well.  I don't buy it, LaLight

[A Drowned Kernel]

Anyway I'm cooling off on pops. vote: galz

[Galzria]

Anyway I'm cooling off on pops. vote: galz

Arbitrary.

[Galzria]

If town should never shoot in that case, then scum should never shoot as well.  I don't buy it, LaLight

You’ve been the only person to make much sense thus far - or at least I’ve felt your posts have mirrored mine & my thinking. This generally happens (from my perspective anyway) when you’re town.

[A Drowned Kernel]

Anyway I'm cooling off on pops. vote: galz

Arbitrary.

A little. But your post about how pops' created information seemed a little disingenuous. Do you have something better for me?

[LaLight]

If town should never shoot in that case, then scum should never shoot as well.  I don't buy it, LaLight

Yeah, meta is different from my opinion, unsurprisingly

[LaLight]

Town vig is negative utility early game which is proved again.

Ok, there is an additional benefit for town zombies, but how can we be sure, that their powers are better than what MiX had?

It's just like if we start every game by quicklynching the 7th person in a sign up list, because "day 1 sucks and we will have more info"

[LaLight]

It's scummier that you missed it? Or it's scummier that he had to do it early???  This just sounds like it contradicts your earlier musings, or did I misread something

That he had to do it early, if it was compulsive. From a design perspective makes it seem more like a scum power to temper the benefit of an additional kill.

Exactly

[A Drowned Kernel]

LaLight are you arguing that town vigs should never shoot? I am honestly uncertain what your actual stance is

[LaLight]

LaLight are you arguing that town vigs should never shoot? I am honestly uncertain what your actual stance is

Town vigs should never shoot D1, N1 and depending on a player count maybe D2/N2 as well

[raerae]

Hey folks, I apologize for my tardiness but I have come down with a weird illness and am riding the struggle bus pretty hard at the moment. I disagree with pops' shot but I'm leaning more town than scum there. ADK get a raised eyebrow of suspicion for claiming a second vig for exactly the reason they're suspicious of pops. If ADK were scum though I'd expect more push to lynch pops so there's that. Everything else is difficult to parse, I'm not even getting a read on shraeye so take that for what you will. I'll be back with more thoughts when they get here.

[A Drowned Kernel]

ADK get a raised eyebrow of suspicion for claiming a second vig for exactly the reason they're suspicious of pops.

What reason is that?

[raerae]

ADK get a raised eyebrow of suspicion for claiming a second vig for exactly the reason they're suspicious of pops.

What reason is that?

Just that it's weird that there's two.

[A Drowned Kernel]

ADK get a raised eyebrow of suspicion for claiming a second vig for exactly the reason they're suspicious of pops.

What reason is that?

Just that it's weird that there's two.

The knowledge that pops's allegedly has some sort of restriction does make it a little more likely that we're both town in my mind, since my ability is also restrictive

[EFHW]

Semi vla through Sat., on plane right now.

[shraeye]

Town vig is negative utility early game which is proved again.

Ok, there is an additional benefit for town zombies, but how can we be sure, that their powers are better than what MiX had?

It's just like if we start every game by quicklynching the 7th person in a sign up list, because "day 1 sucks and we will have more info"

So you're voting pops because you're mad that he did the wrong thing?  Or because it is not a move town pops would do?

[A Drowned Kernel]

Town vig is negative utility early game which is proved again.

Actually on a reread: do you think pops is a town vig?

[A Drowned Kernel]

I guess shraeye is basically asking the same question

[Archetype]

It's scummier that you missed it? Or it's scummier that he had to do it early???  This just sounds like it contradicts your earlier musings, or did I misread something

That he had to do it early, if it was compulsive. From a design perspective makes it seem more like a scum power to temper the benefit of an additional kill.

Disagree. The brain-eating mechanic makes it NAI, since the goal of the power is, presumably, to make sure there are enough brains for all the zombies to eat.

NAI = not alignment indicative? I’m not familiar with the acronym.

A power can serve the greater mechanic while still being more likely being assigned to town or scum based on the context or relative strength

[Glooble]

It's scummier that you missed it? Or it's scummier that he had to do it early???  This just sounds like it contradicts your earlier musings, or did I misread something

That he had to do it early, if it was compulsive. From a design perspective makes it seem more like a scum power to temper the benefit of an additional kill.

Disagree. The brain-eating mechanic makes it NAI, since the goal of the power is, presumably, to make sure there are enough brains for all the zombies to eat.

NAI = not alignment indicative? I’m not familiar with the acronym.

A power can serve the greater mechanic while still being more likely being assigned to town or scum based on the context or relative strength

Not alignment indicative. Yeah. A compulsive day 1 vig is basically negative utility for town, but given the setup it seems like a reasonable design choice to me.

[popsofctown]

A compulsive day1 dayvig, which may or may not be what I am, is protown in a 14 player mafia game.

It is slightly disproportionately likely to hit a Mafiosi rather than a townie because it cannot hit the dayvig himself.  By default the tool for removing mafia is the lynch, which has a chance to errantly strike any townie.

"Vigs should just decline to ever use their ability" people are wrong and dumb and maybe one day they will convince me they aren't wrong and dumb but they have to do a lot of ice skating across hell to get to me on it.

[popsofctown]

saying vigs shouldn't shoot is almost indistinguishable from the copypasta "didn't you know it's wrong to do anything but no-lynch day 1, since the day 1 lynch is more likely to be town than scum".  It's just actually even worse because it's a shot that does slightly better than rand.  That's when you're giving the dayvig's reads no credence at all.

The only decent argument is complaints about the vig victim being a powerful PR who could claim to deter a particularly bad lynch in a way they can't deter a particularly bad vigging, well, I keep that in mind, my sense of MiX's play was that it seemed if I was wrong about him he wasn't something particularly powerful, and it doesn't seem that I was wrong about that at all

[popsofctown]

you can also have a standing disagreement with someone at a theory level and still townread them though

[popsofctown]

ADK feels like he's pretending to change his mind rather than changing his mind, not a fan of that slot right now.
In contrast several reactions have been varying shades of townie. 

[LaLight]

Town vig is negative utility early game which is proved again.

Ok, there is an additional benefit for town zombies, but how can we be sure, that their powers are better than what MiX had?

It's just like if we start every game by quicklynching the 7th person in a sign up list, because "day 1 sucks and we will have more info"

So you're voting pops because you're mad that he did the wrong thing?  Or because it is not a move town pops would do?

I have never played with pops, so I don't know if this move is more town or scum pops. Although in a vacuum I think scum is more likely to make this move, yeah

[LaLight]

Town vig is negative utility early game which is proved again.

Actually on a reread: do you think pops is a town vig?

I don't know and I lean to scum!vig as I am trying to explain

[LaLight]

saying vigs shouldn't shoot is almost indistinguishable from the copypasta "didn't you know it's wrong to do anything but no-lynch day 1, since the day 1 lynch is more likely to be town than scum".  It's just actually even worse because it's a shot that does slightly better than rand.  That's when you're giving the dayvig's reads no credence at all.

The only decent argument is complaints about the vig victim being a powerful PR who could claim to deter a particularly bad lynch in a way they can't deter a particularly bad vigging, well, I keep that in mind, my sense of MiX's play was that it seemed if I was wrong about him he wasn't something particularly powerful, and it doesn't seem that I was wrong about that at all

Dayvigging is different from lynching, it's a personal decision based on personal reads

[shraeye]

From all this fallout, I'm suspicious of LaLight the most, Didds a bit.  But there is a more interesting set of players, can't really comment further without more research which isn't going to happen right now because A) phone and B) postop drugs

[A Drowned Kernel]

ADK feels like he's pretending to change his mind rather than changing his mind, not a fan of that slot right now.
In contrast several reactions have been varying shades of townie.

To be fair, my mind isn't 100% changed

[popsofctown]

Glad to know you're willing to pivot a second time if it turns out being anti-dayvig is the safest positioning for your slot after all, ADK

[A Drowned Kernel]

Glad to know you're willing to pivot a second time if it turns out being anti-dayvig is the safest positioning for your slot after all, ADK

I'm not pivoting. I can accept that there's a town narrative for your decision. That doesn't mean I'm completely discounting the scum one

[popsofctown]

That's actually legitimately reasonable I just don't get your Galzria scumread at all and am unhappy with your slot right now

[Swowl]

A compulsive day1 dayvig, which may or may not be what I am, is protown in a 14 player mafia game.

It is slightly disproportionately likely to hit a Mafiosi rather than a townie because it cannot hit the dayvig himself.  By default the tool for removing mafia is the lynch, which has a chance to errantly strike any townie.

"Vigs should just decline to ever use their ability" people are wrong and dumb and maybe one day they will convince me they aren't wrong and dumb but they have to do a lot of ice skating across hell to get to me on it.

OK so assuming you had some sort of limitation on your shot that is forced you to use it (or whatever it is that you are hinting at)... why just shoot? Why not claim it and get the convo going before just arbitrarily picking a target?

[A Drowned Kernel]

That's actually legitimately reasonable I just don't get your Galzria scumread at all and am unhappy with your slot right now

Galz is a player that I know I'm going to have a hard time reading and he seemed awfully quick to give you a pass after the vig. Do you have a reason for townreading him?

[shraeye]

Glad to know you're willing to pivot a second time if it turns out being anti-dayvig is the safest positioning for your slot after all, ADK

What's slot mean here?

[faust]

Awaclus replaces raerae!

Vote Count 1.3

Galzria (4): SpaceAnemone, Archetype, shraeye, A Drowned Kernel
Glooble (2): EFHW, Galzria
LaLight (1): popsofctown
popsofctown (1): LaLight

Not Voting (5): WestCoastDidds, Awaclus, jotheonah, DatSwan, Glooble

With 13 alive, it takes 7 to lynch. Day 1 ends on December 29, 2019, 02:30:00 am.

[WestCoastDidds]

Still VLA, but a burst of service means I’m caught up with reading.

Happy Santa day!

[A Drowned Kernel]

Still VLA, but a burst of service means I’m caught up with reading.

Happy Santa day!

Do you have time to give any reads?

[shraeye]

Still VLA, but a burst of service means I’m caught up with reading.

Happy Santa day!

Do you have time to give any reads?

Do you want her reads?

[A Drowned Kernel]

Still VLA, but a burst of service means I’m caught up with reading.

Happy Santa day!

Do you have time to give any reads?

Do you want her reads?

I'd like more people to be giving their reads in general. This game is stagnating

[Galzria]

Still VLA, but a burst of service means I’m caught up with reading.

Happy Santa day!

Do you have time to give any reads?

Do you want her reads?

I'd like more people to be giving their reads in general. This game is stagnating

I will be able to post more tomorrow.

[jotheonah]

Still VLA, but a burst of service means I’m caught up with reading.

Happy Santa day!

Do you have time to give any reads?

Do you want her reads?

I'd like more people to be giving their reads in general. This game is stagnating

TBF, It's actual literal Christmas.

[A Drowned Kernel]

Still VLA, but a burst of service means I’m caught up with reading.

Happy Santa day!

Do you have time to give any reads?

Do you want her reads?

I'd like more people to be giving their reads in general. This game is stagnating

TBF, It's actual literal Christmas.

Bah, humbug

[Awaclus]

I'm fine without people sharing their reads.

[EFHW]

I don't like the dayvig. No one had taken positions on MiX and he hadn't taken any strong positions,  so the information we get is minimal. Flips are better after people have committed to positions. 

But, I don't think there is a strong argument that pops is scum because of it.

Upshot is, we need to move on.

vote: Space,  lurking.

Awaclus, you have a fresh set of eyes. Anything stand out?

[Awaclus]

Awaclus, you have a fresh set of eyes. Anything stand out?

I haven't read the game yet.

[WestCoastDidds]

Do you have time to give any reads?

Fair question...I’m definitely part of the stagnation problem.  Regardless, I hope it’s been a good week for you, even if it was only to say “bah, humbug!” with great frequency.

I don’t know that I have any reads of value...

I don’t know Pops. I don’t like it that he killed MiX, but if it’s a scum move it’s way more bold than I’d generally expect. I don’t understand some of the ways he’s using words (slots?)

I’m not sure why do many people are voting for Galz. There does seem to be some kind of something going on with him and pops. Can’t tell if it’s long standing respect or scum buddies.

LL theorizing is interesting, I like knowing how his mind works. But also maybe it’s scummy.

The conversations between pops and just about everyone about the level of scumminess in killing MiX has kept the conversation focused only on that issue and it’s related theoretical tangents. The result of this is that I feel like I have a fair sense of his position and my assessment (not so scummy) of it, but there really hasn’t been much else of note. The conversation about the big shot has essentially hijacked the day thus negating any good reason to do it early (absent some requirement/compulsion) by ensuring that no other conversations are happening because no one had time to develop any reads or lines of inquiries before it happened to return to. Thus, the stagnation.

In other news, I think your frustration at the stagnation is towny.

[Swowl]

I'm fine without people sharing their reads.

wahhhhhhttt?

[Swowl]

merry xmas everyone!

[Awaclus]

I'm fine without people sharing their reads.

wahhhhhhttt?

I'm fine without people sharing their reads.

[popsofctown]

I don't feel blameworthy for the dayvig derailing the day, I think you've all gotten more distracted by it than you should have.


A "slot" refers to a player and the potentiality of their role PM.  When someone replaces in and you want to lynch the replacement for reasons concerning the original player's play and the new player's play both you end up needing some word that refers to the role PM someone got that somebody or other will take care of without referring to one person specifically.  Eventually people like me end up using it to refer to players who haven't been replaced at all because it's gamier and it's still a valid descriptor.

In the context of the particular quoted post it seemed the word choice specifically clarified I was making a post about their alignment and not the validity of their previous statements, even though I was discussing the validity of a current statement so one might presume the latter.

[SpaceAnemone]

A compulsive day1 dayvig, which may or may not be what I am, is protown in a 14 player mafia game.

It is slightly disproportionately likely to hit a Mafiosi rather than a townie because it cannot hit the dayvig himself.  By default the tool for removing mafia is the lynch, which has a chance to errantly strike any townie.

I pulled this post up for respoding to in my reread tonight because it seemed like really shaky logic. Now I've completed the reread, I think I get what you mean after all, though: you're saying that a dayvig in a game with x scum out of n players hits scum x/(n-1) times, whereas the lynch might be expected to hit scum x/n times, which is a smaller number, hence "disproportionately".

I don't necessarily agree, because I think the numerator on that second likelihood should be reduced due to the fact that scum can coordinate to distract from a scum lynch to a certain extent when necessary. However, at least I see where you're arguing from.

[SpaceAnemone]

Still VLA, but a burst of service means I’m caught up with reading.

Happy Santa day!

Belated Happy Santa Day :-)

Happy last-few-minutes-of-Boxing-Day if that's a thing in the US or elsewhere too!

[SpaceAnemone]

If town should never shoot in that case, then scum should never shoot as well.  I don't buy it, LaLight

You’ve been the only person to make much sense thus far - or at least I’ve felt your posts have mirrored mine & my thinking. This generally happens (from my perspective anyway) when you’re town.

This sits slightly oddly with me. Is it more likely to come from a super-confident town!Galz, or a scum!Galz who's either buddying Shraeye or setting up for a situation where the two of them support each other's towniness in-thread while misleading everyone? I feel a bit paranoid that it's the latter.

[SpaceAnemone]

Relatedly, I feel sympathy for LL's discomfort with vigs, partly from the same sort of "wow, big shot" thing that WCD expressed. It's not like LL is saying anything terribly outrageos in his expression of doubt about it being a good move. I don't really like the way he seems to have picked up scumpoints for it.

[SpaceAnemone]

ADK feels like he's pretending to change his mind rather than changing his mind, not a fan of that slot right now.

Just a reminder: ADK and I both use they/them as a pronoun.

[SpaceAnemone]

LL theorizing is interesting, I like knowing how his mind works. But also maybe it’s scummy.

Why do you specifically feel that his theorizing is maybe-scummy?

[SpaceAnemone]

vote: Space,  lurking.

Apologies for being AWOL! Thank you for not sending an actual prod over the festive period :-) I threw myself into lots of family stuff for the past 48 hours in compensation for having to spend the first bit of my family visit so wrapped up with urgent last-min work. My next 48 hours are mostly going to be spent in transit and visiting extended family, but I should have decent evening connectivity.

Not currently tempted to do an omgus-vote back again. I actually had to go looking for the last VC to check who I'm voting for. I don't hate being on Galz, so that will do for now. Tomorrow I should try to check to see whether I have an unfair anti-Galz suspicion or something. Right now it's sleep time though.

[EFHW]

saying vigs shouldn't shoot is almost indistinguishable from the copypasta "didn't you know it's wrong to do anything but no-lynch day 1, since the day 1 lynch is more likely to be town than scum".  It's just actually even worse because it's a shot that does slightly better than rand.  That's when you're giving the dayvig's reads no credence at all.

The only decent argument is complaints about the vig victim being a powerful PR who could claim to deter a particularly bad lynch in a way they can't deter a particularly bad vigging, well, I keep that in mind, my sense of MiX's play was that it seemed if I was wrong about him he wasn't something particularly powerful, and it doesn't seem that I was wrong about that at all

What gave you the idea he wasn't powerful? I thought you thought he was scum?

[EFHW]

From all this fallout, I'm suspicious of LaLight the most, Didds a bit.  But there is a more interesting set of players, can't really comment further without more research which isn't going to happen right now because A) phone and B) postop drugs

Can you say more now?

I hope you and raerae are both ok!

[popsofctown]

saying vigs shouldn't shoot is almost indistinguishable from the copypasta "didn't you know it's wrong to do anything but no-lynch day 1, since the day 1 lynch is more likely to be town than scum".  It's just actually even worse because it's a shot that does slightly better than rand.  That's when you're giving the dayvig's reads no credence at all.

The only decent argument is complaints about the vig victim being a powerful PR who could claim to deter a particularly bad lynch in a way they can't deter a particularly bad vigging, well, I keep that in mind, my sense of MiX's play was that it seemed if I was wrong about him he wasn't something particularly powerful, and it doesn't seem that I was wrong about that at all

What gave you the idea he wasn't powerful? I thought you thought he was scum?

Do I need to find the por que no los dos girl to post her in here?
Mafia Goon (well in this setup, a mafia with a very weak ability) is the flip I most expected, VT (same caveat) secondmost.

[shraeye]

From all this fallout, I'm suspicious of LaLight the most, Didds a bit.  But there is a more interesting set of players, can't really comment further without more research which isn't going to happen right now because A) phone and B) postop drugs

Can you say more now?

I hope you and raerae are both ok!

Not yet

[shraeye]

-2 to Space

[shraeye]

vote: Space,  lurking.

Apologies for being AWOL! Thank you for not sending an actual prod over the festive period :-) I threw myself into lots of family stuff for the past 48 hours in compensation for having to spend the first bit of my family visit so wrapped up with urgent last-min work. My next 48 hours are mostly going to be spent in transit and visiting extended family, but I should have decent evening connectivity.

Not currently tempted to do an omgus-vote back again. I actually had to go looking for the last VC to check who I'm voting for. I don't hate being on Galz, so that will do for now. Tomorrow I should try to check to see whether I have an unfair anti-Galz suspicion or something. Right now it's sleep time though.

Why does it matter who you were voting for? Are you actually suspicious of Galz? What would make that suspicion unfair (like, what are you even 'checking' for)??

[SpaceAnemone]

vote: Space,  lurking.

Apologies for being AWOL! Thank you for not sending an actual prod over the festive period :-) I threw myself into lots of family stuff for the past 48 hours in compensation for having to spend the first bit of my family visit so wrapped up with urgent last-min work. My next 48 hours are mostly going to be spent in transit and visiting extended family, but I should have decent evening connectivity.

Not currently tempted to do an omgus-vote back again. I actually had to go looking for the last VC to check who I'm voting for. I don't hate being on Galz, so that will do for now. Tomorrow I should try to check to see whether I have an unfair anti-Galz suspicion or something. Right now it's sleep time though.

Why does it matter who you were voting for? Are you actually suspicious of Galz? What would make that suspicion unfair (like, what are you even 'checking' for)??

It matters who I am voting for now, given that the day is moving on. That comes from who I was voting for.

Yes, minorly suspicious of Gala for the way he seemed to be budding you.

Checking for any personal biases I might have from playing with Galz previously that might unduly colour my read of him this game. Not something I felt awake enough for last night.

Now I'm stuck in the back of a car and my phone screen is tiny so probably not going to get much reading or thinking done till tonight my time.

[Awaclus]

Vote: Glooble

[Glooble]

Vote: Glooble

Please don’t.

[Glooble]

Sorry I know I haven’t said anything in a while other than “don’t lynch me” but trust me when I say lynching me today would be exceptionally bad. I wish I had a strong scumread but I really don’t.

[Awaclus]

Sorry I know I haven’t said anything in a while other than “don’t lynch me” but trust me when I say lynching me today would be exceptionally bad. I wish I had a strong scumread but I really don’t.

Well, having a scumread wouldn't make that defense any less scummy.

[popsofctown]

ADK feels like he's pretending to change his mind rather than changing his mind, not a fan of that slot right now.

Just a reminder: ADK and I both use they/them as a pronoun.

I am sorry about that.  I usually prefer she/hers but am not gonna bother about it this game

[faust]

Vote Count 1.4

Galzria (4): SpaceAnemone, Archetype, shraeye, A Drowned Kernel
Glooble (2): Galzria, Awaclus
LaLight (1): popsofctown
popsofctown (1): LaLight
SpaceAnemone (1): EFHW

Not Voting (4): WestCoastDidds, jotheonah, DatSwan, Glooble

With 13 alive, it takes 7 to lynch. Day 1 ends on December 29, 2019, 02:30:00 am.

That is in about 34 hours.

[A Drowned Kernel]

@pops I'd still like to know if/why you find galz towny

[shraeye]

Vote: lalight

[popsofctown]

@pops I'd still like to know if/why you find galz towny

It's easier to remember that I do than why I do, and that gap is much wider on sites without an iso button X.X

[popsofctown]

If town should never shoot in that case, then scum should never shoot as well.  I don't buy it, LaLight

You’ve been the only person to make much sense thus far - or at least I’ve felt your posts have mirrored mine & my thinking. This generally happens (from my perspective anyway) when you’re town.

I lol'ed at Galzria developing the "resonance" towntell from the axioms, like transoceanic civilization independently inventing agriculture or something.
Claiming lots of resonance towntells is a staple part of my scumgame but if the concept isn't well developed here it just seems hard for that to be a natural part of his countermeasures handbook.


Looks like the other part is his charitable view of my slot pocketing me tell me what I want to hear etc, that's only going to have impact fmpov.

[A Drowned Kernel]

If town should never shoot in that case, then scum should never shoot as well.  I don't buy it, LaLight

You’ve been the only person to make much sense thus far - or at least I’ve felt your posts have mirrored mine & my thinking. This generally happens (from my perspective anyway) when you’re town.

I lol'ed at Galzria developing the "resonance" towntell from the axioms, like transoceanic civilization independently inventing agriculture or something.
Claiming lots of resonance towntells is a staple part of my scumgame but if the concept isn't well developed here it just seems hard for that to be a natural part of his countermeasures handbook.


Looks like the other part is his charitable view of my slot pocketing me tell me what I want to hear etc, that's only going to have impact fmpov.

I would say people are aware of the concept though are likely to blanket the whole thing under the idea of "buddying"

[EFHW]

saying vigs shouldn't shoot is almost indistinguishable from the copypasta "didn't you know it's wrong to do anything but no-lynch day 1, since the day 1 lynch is more likely to be town than scum".  It's just actually even worse because it's a shot that does slightly better than rand.  That's when you're giving the dayvig's reads no credence at all.

The only decent argument is complaints about the vig victim being a powerful PR who could claim to deter a particularly bad lynch in a way they can't deter a particularly bad vigging, well, I keep that in mind, my sense of MiX's play was that it seemed if I was wrong about him he wasn't something particularly powerful, and it doesn't seem that I was wrong about that at all

What gave you the idea he wasn't powerful? I thought you thought he was scum?

Do I need to find the por que no los dos girl to post her in here?
Mafia Goon (well in this setup, a mafia with a very weak ability) is the flip I most expected, VT (same caveat) secondmost.

Which posts gave you that impression?

You can use she for me.

[popsofctown]

RVS talk aside, do we really lose anything from claiming who's human and who's zombie? There's probably some abilities that turn humans into zombies, or vice-versa, and hiding when those changes happen might be good, but I can't tell how bad it is if we all just claimed our initial status. What does everyone else think?

This made me think MiX genuinely didn't know a lot about the setup -> has fewer abilities.
Being willing to talk about mechanics is vanilla indicative because there's less fear of rolefishing yourself as well, if you're the godfather in a cop game you don't want to slip in the way you describe investigation mechanics, a goon doesn't care.

[LaLight]

I am completely clueless.

Also I won't be here at the deadline, but I will be here in 12ish hours

[Glooble]

RVS talk aside, do we really lose anything from claiming who's human and who's zombie? There's probably some abilities that turn humans into zombies, or vice-versa, and hiding when those changes happen might be good, but I can't tell how bad it is if we all just claimed our initial status. What does everyone else think?

This made me think MiX genuinely didn't know a lot about the setup -> has fewer abilities.
Being willing to talk about mechanics is vanilla indicative because there's less fear of rolefishing yourself as well, if you're the godfather in a cop game you don't want to slip in the way you describe investigation mechanics, a goon doesn't care.

Sorry, what? That reason makes sense if MiX is town but not if MiX is scum. Mafia had all of night zero to talk- they know each other’s roles. A goon has exactly as much info about the setup as a Godfather.

[popsofctown]

Whenever I roll mafia goon I make believe I am a VT and I play in a VT way.  So I care less about mechanics.
I expect other people to be like that too

[WestCoastDidds]

Back on land...getting caught up

[WestCoastDidds]

Alright, Glooble. I’m going to vine stand by you for awhile.

I believe that lynching you today is a bad idea. You’re not on board the Galz train. So, what are you thinking?

[WestCoastDidds]

*come

[Awaclus]

I believe that lynching you today is a bad idea.

Why do you believe that?

[Glooble]

Alright, Glooble. I’m going to vine stand by you for awhile.

I believe that lynching you today is a bad idea. You’re not on board the Galz train. So, what are you thinking?

I just Iso’d Galz- didn’t take long. None of it came of particularly scummy to me. He’s not a terrible lynch, but I don’t see why he’s the biggest wagon.

 

Whenever I roll mafia goon I make believe I am a VT and I play in a VT way.  So I care less about mechanics.
I expect other people to be like that too

I get this, but in a role madness game designed by faust I expect no actual VTs, and that makes this mindset more dangerous for scum, since if pushed they have to fake claim something.

[WestCoastDidds]

I believe that lynching you today is a bad idea.

Why do you believe that?

Because he has intimated that would be bad for us in some way beyond just losing him generally, and I think that both sounds like a faust game and is authentically Glooble.

[Awaclus]

Because he has intimated that would be bad for us in some way beyond just losing him generally, and I think that both sounds like a faust game and is authentically Glooble.

It's also trivial to say that if you're scum and there's no way to falsify it while he's alive.

[jotheonah]

I don’t know much, but I know I don’t care for the Galzria wagon.

Vote: ADK

[WestCoastDidds]

Because he has intimated that would be bad for us in some way beyond just losing him generally, and I think that both sounds like a faust game and is authentically Glooble.

It's also trivial to say that if you're scum and there's no way to falsify it while he's alive.

Agreed, but that is not typically the Glooble way. Any reason to be particularly suspicious of him?

[WestCoastDidds]

Awa, why are you voting for him? Or did Rae do that?

[A Drowned Kernel]

I don’t know much, but I know I don’t care for the Galzria wagon.

Vote: ADK

What don't you like about it?

[popsofctown]

Did you guys notice how soon the deadline is?

And the Galzria wagon sucks.

[SpaceAnemone]

I'm back home in Oxford :-) I knew the deadline was getting pretty close, hence worrying about whom to vote for yesterday, but the fact that it's overnight tonight seems a bit sudden even so. (It's 07.30 my time, but I'm a not morning person at the best of times, even though I'm currently also hosting my parents here in my house for the next couple of nights).

[SpaceAnemone]

@pops I'd still like to know if/why you find galz towny

It's easier to remember that I do than why I do, and that gap is much wider on sites without an iso button X.X

You know you can iso people just by viewing the whole thread and then searching for the unique text to the left of their posts, right? Granted, Galz is awkward because there's no shuffle-it username, but there's other unique text there you can use.. I'm deliberately not quoting it here though, since that would partially mess up its utility :-P

Anyway, for someone who seems so plugged into the game, I find it odd that you can't say why Galz isn't a good wagon. Have I missed an alternative that you're pushing?

[Glooble]

Vote: LaLight

[Glooble]

I won’t be on at deadline. I will check in in a few hours though to move my vote if necessary.

[LaLight]

vote: Galzria to avoid no lynch. I am off to sleep, 3 am here and won't be for deadline.

[LaLight]

oh sorry for bold

[SpaceAnemone]

With apologies to Awaclus for doing a thing he hates, here's where I am at the moment on the alive players:

SpaceAnemone -- Spaaaaaace :-)
Glooble -- I'm willing to skip voting for Glooble on D1 on the grounds in case something terrible happens. I don't like the new LL vote, though.
WestCoastDidds -- Interacting pretty widely, but she could fake that as scum. Maybe she gets a handful of scum points for a vague scumread on LL on the back of his anti-vig stance that she never managed to back up.
DatSwan -- Only 9 in-game posts, but I can't exactly complain about lurky people. Votes Galz in RVS, but makes a point when unvoting to mention it was still RVS, which seems unnecessary. Most other stuff he says isn't really going anywhere, so he can have a few scumpoints.
MiX -- boom.
LaLight -- Took an unpopular stance re vigging and stood by it. I think that's very LL, but maybe also more town!LL than scum!LL. A couple of townpoints for now.
jotheonah -- Does a lot of theorising early on with numbers and everything :-) I like the attempt, even though I disagree with the no-turning-zombies-to-humans assumption flavour grounds.
EFHW -- She seemed engaged early on, then got nullish and VLA-ish, but still also voted me for lurking. She can have a handful of null points for now.
A Drowned Kernel -- A high poster, though I've not actually set up my vote/post counter for this game yet to check on this. Came out against Pops after the vig shot, then kind of hedges. Other than that, asks a lot of good questions.
Awaclus -- Null on both the Raerae and Awaclus isos. The latter is pretty standard, though.
Archetype -- Only 10 game posts, including at least one that seems a bit disengaged. Meh.
popsofctown -- Shot MiX. So that's a thing. She's clearly a strong player, so I'm going to be suspicious. D1 pass for being new and interesting and not clearly definitely scum yet.
shraeye -- I think we often disagree, so his behaviour towards me ~#268-269 isn't so surprising. I don't think LL has done anything really vote-worthy, so that's something I disagree on. He can have a couple of omgusy scumpoints.
Galzria -- Only 12 game posts? That's oddly low, especially since the first 4 are fluff. Then there's some schooly stuff, though I guess calling ADKon their hedging with Pops is quite valid. The buddying of shraeye at #209 was the thing that pinged my scumdar. The rest is all null, though the "I will be able to post more tomorrow" post from 4 days ago is his most recent content.

[SpaceAnemone]

So my scumpoints go to WCD, Swan and Shraeye, none of whom are useful wagons just now, and to Galz, who's winning the voting..

I'm torn between moving to open up the options those of you in more westerly timezones will have to play with up till deadline, and staying put so as not to hurt our chances of achieving a lynch.

[Glooble]

Why didn’t you like the LaLight vote?

[Glooble]

I mostly just wanted to put my someplace to give the people who will be on at deadline options, like you said. And I found LaLight a little scummier than ADK.

[jotheonah]

I don’t know much, but I know I don’t care for the Galzria wagon.

Vote: ADK

What don't you like about it?

I don't like anything about it. It seems random, based on nothing. Galz is a strong late game player. Let's not sacrifice him on a hunch.

[jotheonah]

Anyway, for someone who seems so plugged into the game, I find it odd that you can't say why Galz isn't a good wagon. Have I missed an alternative that you're pushing?

This thing where the burden of proof is apparently on those of us who DON'T like the wagon is pretty novel.

[WestCoastDidds]

So my scumpoints go to WCD, Swan and Shraeye, none of whom are useful wagons just now, and to Galz, who's winning the voting..

I'm torn between moving to open up the options those of you in more westerly timezones will have to play with up till deadline, and staying put so as not to hurt our chances of achieving a lynch.

I fully admit to being way distracted and disengaged this week. I’d like to believe that I will be in better shape next week. I was completely without internet for 4 of the last 5 days and with big groups of family otherwise.

[popsofctown]

I explained why I think Galzria is probtown in 280#.

Honestly, this game's activity is bad, like bad bad, and scum win lirky games.  I still think adk is scummier than rand but wouldn't lynch him at this juncture for that reason.  A player who lurks but has been scummy in what little posting they've made is often an ideal day one lynch.
That makes Galzria lynch extra disappointing but if I project this game's past activity forward I think it might be the only viable wagon. He might even need to be claiming here.

[WestCoastDidds]

I don’t want to go to bed without voting but I don’t feel like any of the choices of viable folks are very good. If it’s between LL and Galz, I’ll vote but without much enthusiasm.

vote: LaLight

[Swowl]

Been out of town for two days. Been trying to keep up but hard. Catching up and cooking dinner now.

[Archetype]

Reread the thread. I think pops and I disagree on a theory level but also don't know if their initial reasoning of wanting to get the shot off before scum manipulation makes sense. Even if that did happen (being blocked, killed, etc.), pops should take that as an indication that they're correct about MiX. So I think that there is something more going on that what they're putting forward, but I don't know if that immediately makes them scum.

My galz vote was RVS and I don't quite get the wagon on him. Glooble I am fine not lynching today because of his insistence to not be. LaLight I odo find towny because I think his reaction surrounding the daykill is somewhat justified with how it played out.

I think I will end up putting down a vote: joth. I think they early number things were interested but seemed a bit too much of an attempt to drum up content. I also expected him to have more commentary about the pops situation given he was in a similiar-ish one last game, but gave up voting for him pretty quickly.

[Galzria]

Been out of town for two days. Been trying to keep up but hard. Catching up and cooking dinner now.

This for us both. I’m about 25 “reading” posts behind (catching up now), and Swan & I don’t actually get back home until the 30th.

[Galzria]

For some months now, violent crime has been on decline in Seattle. What seems like a happy occasion is causing trouble in the police department's morgue. Without homicides comig in Liv has resorted to older bodies of victims for her brain supplies. And now, even most of these are already brainless. The prospect of having to find new ways to satisfy her hunger is looming as part of Liv hopes for some killings.

Day 1 begins!

Vote Count 1.0

Not Voting (14): SpaceAnemone, Glooble, WestCoastDidds, DatSwan, MiX, LaLight, jotheonah, EFHW, A Drowned Kernel, raerae, Archetype, popsofctown, shraeye, Galzria

With 14 alive, it takes 8 to lynch. Day 1 ends on December 29, 2019, 02:30:00 am.

Ah. Deadline.

Well. I don’t know what the most up to date VC is at on me (or anyone else).

Claiming...

I’m not going to regardless. There IS another player in the game that knows my role, so if I’m lynched here they can still fill people in on missing information.

[Galzria]

I’ll vote LL to save myself, obviously.

I think I prefer vote: Joth to LL (or Glooble) here.

[popsofctown]

How do I search the topic?

[Galzria]

How do I search the topic?

No super easy way. Usually -All- pages & then Find on page, and then search by iT Username.

[shraeye]

vote: Space,  lurking.

Apologies for being AWOL! Thank you for not sending an actual prod over the festive period :-) I threw myself into lots of family stuff for the past 48 hours in compensation for having to spend the first bit of my family visit so wrapped up with urgent last-min work. My next 48 hours are mostly going to be spent in transit and visiting extended family, but I should have decent evening connectivity.

Not currently tempted to do an omgus-vote back again. I actually had to go looking for the last VC to check who I'm voting for. I don't hate being on Galz, so that will do for now. Tomorrow I should try to check to see whether I have an unfair anti-Galz suspicion or something. Right now it's sleep time though.

Why does it matter who you were voting for? Are you actually suspicious of Galz? What would make that suspicion unfair (like, what are you even 'checking' for)??

It matters who I am voting for now, given that the day is moving on. That comes from who I was voting for.

Yes, minorly suspicious of Gala for the way he seemed to be budding you.

Checking for any personal biases I might have from playing with Galz previously that might unduly colour my read of him this game. Not something I felt awake enough for last night.

Now I'm stuck in the back of a car and my phone screen is tiny so probably not going to get much reading or thinking done till tonight my time.

I don't see how Galz agreeing with me is suspicious at all.  I really don't understand people getting scumread from this supposed buddying

[shraeye]

How do I search the topic?

No super easy way. Usually -All- pages & then Find on page, and then search by iT Username.

Yeah, it ain't great

[A Drowned Kernel]

I’ll vote LL to save myself, obviously.

I think I prefer vote: Joth to LL (or Glooble) here.

What's joth's count at? I'm always down for a joth lynch, especially lurker!joth, which I think is more likely to indicate that he's scum

[A Drowned Kernel]

vote: Galzria to avoid no lynch. I am off to sleep, 3 am here and won't be for deadline.

@mod was this counted as a vote?

[A Drowned Kernel]

I’ll vote LL to save myself, obviously.

I think I prefer vote: Joth to LL (or Glooble) here.

What's joth's count at? I'm always down for a joth lynch, especially lurker!joth, which I think is more likely to indicate that he's scum

Just 2 votes by my count. Let's make it three

vote: joth

[shraeye]

So, no serious proposals for lynch other than LaLight and Galz.  Nobody really offering a reason for Galz... So we're all just waiting for deadline scramble now?

That's super lame; vote lalight, or explain why you don't want him lynched.

I'm kinda surprised at how little people seem to care if there's a lynch or not, normally y'all are frothing at the mouth.  I get excoriated for mentioning no lynch, while everybody else is moving their vote anywhere to "make sure a lynch happens"....why are ya gun shy now??

[A Drowned Kernel]

So, no serious proposals for lynch other than LaLight and Galz.  Nobody really offering a reason for Galz... So we're all just waiting for deadline scramble now?

That's super lame; vote lalight, or explain why you don't want him lynched.

I'm kinda surprised at how little people seem to care if there's a lynch or not, normally y'all are frothing at the mouth.  I get excoriated for mentioning no lynch, while everybody else is moving their vote anywhere to "make sure a lynch happens"....why are ya gun shy now??

I wouldn't mind moving my vote to lalight but can I interest you in a good old joth wagon?

[Swowl]

I’ll jump back on in an hour for deadline.

Placeholder vote:

Vote: LL


Not changing to Galz at this point, Joth i guess to make sure there is a lynch? But prefer LL right now. Will do a quick run through again after dinner.

[popsofctown]

vote: Galzria to avoid no lynch. I am off to sleep, 3 am here and won't be for deadline.

@mod was this counted as a vote?

You guys accept nicknames here, don't you?  I always call Galzria to avoid no lynch.I am off to sleep, 3 am here and won't be for deadline "Galzria" in more formal and "Galzria to avoid no lynch.I am off to sleep, 3 am here and won't be for deadline" otherwise.

[popsofctown]

I wouldn't moan about switching to joth

[EFHW]

Shoot, this snuck up on me. I was traveling today so vla is over. vote: Lalight.

[EFHW]

vote count please

[Galzria]

vote count please

[Galzria]

vote count please

Since this isn’t here,

Vote: LL

[Galzria]

If anybody else is online and not on LL, please vote to ensure lynch. 19 minutes to deadline.

[A Drowned Kernel]

vote: lalight just in case faust counts it

[LaLight]

I am flavor cop and both Tracker and Watcher.

I can either check people for if they are criminals or both track AND watch a single player.

Or I can't anymore. Anyway you can discuss things now, although I think I had a pretty strong role. My lynch came out of nowhere, sincerely

[A Drowned Kernel]

I am flavor cop and both Tracker and Watcher.

I can either check people for if they are criminals or both track AND watch a single player.

Or I can't anymore. Anyway you can discuss things now, although I think I had a pretty strong role. My lynch came out of nowhere, sincerely

My vote was way past deadline so I'm not sure it counts

[faust]

Day 1 Final Vote Count

Galzria (2): SpaceAnemone, LaLight
Glooble (1): Awaclus
LaLight (7): popsofctown, shraeye, Glooble, DatSwan, WestCoastDidds, EFHW, Galzria
A Drowned Kernel (1): jotheonah
jotheonah (2): Archetype, A Drowned Kernel

Not Voting (0)

With 13 alive, it took 7 to lynch.

[faust]

Flavor text to be amended.

LaLight was lynched. They were Clive Babineaux, the Town-aligned Flavor Cop/(Anti-Loyal Loud) Watcher-Tracker! They were human.

Night 1 starts now and last until December 31, 2019, 06:00:00 pm. Night action due within 36 hours.

THREAD LOCKED!

[faust]

Sorry, I have made a mistake in the vote count. LaLight was in fact lynched.

I'm sorry for all confusion. I have clearly made a mistake in starting this before the new year. I hope the quality of modding improves from here on out.

Night action deadline extended by 12 hours.

[faust]

The next Day will be delayed a while for festivity reasons.

Happy new year everyone!

[faust]

The scene of the crime was left a mess. Whoever did this was not interested in a careful approach. The skull ripped open, blood was splattered all over, and the brain - missing.

As Liv returned to her flat that Day, it was clear that the horrors just would just keep on coming. The door was cracked open, and as she carefully entered, right there on the couch she found her best friend... not breathing.

A Drowned Kernel has been killed. They were Peyton Charles, the Town-aligned Human Strong-Willed Zombie Collector Even-Night Jailkeeper (Loyal Self-Vanillaising) Double Hated-iser Neighbor, and they were human.

MiX's brain was eaten.

Day 2 begins!

Vote Count 2.0

Not Voting (11): SpaceAnemone, Glooble, WestCoastDidds, DatSwan, jotheonah, EFHW, Awaclus, Archetype, popsofctown, shraeye, Galzria

With 11 alive, it takes 6 to lynch. Day 1 ends on January 08, 2020, 07:00:00 am.

[Glooble]

What an active game we have going on. Over 12 hours and nothing.

Pops, anything exciting happen to you last night?

[EFHW]

I guess most people are recovering from last night? I had a thought about why it was hard to get a lynch. Zombies might be trying to stay off wagon.

Pps Glooble. I'm not alone!

[WestCoastDidds]

Happy new year, friends!

It seems like we are off to a terrible start...any good news??

[shraeye]

I guess most people are recovering from last night? I had a thought about why it was hard to get a lynch. Zombies might be trying to stay off wagon.

Pps Glooble. I'm not alone!

Why would zombies try to stay off the wagon?

[SpaceAnemone]

Happy New Year! I've only just noticed this has started again!

I didn't like the LL lynch at all, because he was actually reading as townie to me, and I'm really not a reads person. I'm not sure what to think about the people pushing his lynch. I need to re-read what went on there, but I'm back at work and everything's firing on all cylinders already, so maybe expect more sometime later in the day my time/mid-afternoon forum time.

[jotheonah]

It's weird to me that LaLight's brains remain uneaten -- that tells me that all the zombies went for MiX. That could be because of faust's error though. At first people only had one brain to eat and then didn't think to change it. However, it means we may have a lot of starving zombies.

[jotheonah]

We may want to try to coordinate tonight's brain eating so we don't get a ton of town Romero deaths -- it's just 2 nights and you're dead, right?

Maybe there's a way to do that without claiming zombie. Like sign-ups 1-5 go for brain X, 6-10 brain Y?

[shraeye]

Vote: SpaceAnemone

[WestCoastDidds]

Vote: SpaceAnemone

Why them?

[popsofctown]

What an active game we have going on. Over 12 hours and nothing.

Pops, anything exciting happen to you last night?

My aunt sent me specialty ice cream for Christmas (it arrived really late), cookies and cream, the same flavor my brother and I both like.  So rather than going out and drinking I decided to watch Netflix and find out how good it is.  I ended up not eating it though because my roommate ordered a pizza so I ate pizza instead, ice cream keeps a lot better in the freezer than pizza and that's more important than how eager I am to find out what it tastes like.  It does mean twice as much guilt.  I will have to eat a stalk of broccoli this weekend.

My roommate and I watched an anime about a goddess who guides a hero in rescuing a world, but it is humorous because he assumes everything is a trap, cautious, and she always wants him to be a more stereotypical hero.

I pretty much never pass up an opportunity to derail a mafia thread but others are probably going to be mad at you for asking about my New Year's when you complained about game pace in the same post.  How'd you spend your New Year's Glooble?

[popsofctown]

We may want to try to coordinate tonight's brain eating so we don't get a ton of town Romero deaths -- it's just 2 nights and you're dead, right?

Maybe there's a way to do that without claiming zombie. Like sign-ups 1-5 go for brain X, 6-10 brain Y?

I'm not sure whether this is optimal but I feel like this is a townpost

[Glooble]

What an active game we have going on. Over 12 hours and nothing.

Pops, anything exciting happen to you last night?

My aunt sent me specialty ice cream for Christmas (it arrived really late), cookies and cream, the same flavor my brother and I both like.  So rather than going out and drinking I decided to watch Netflix and find out how good it is.  I ended up not eating it though because my roommate ordered a pizza so I ate pizza instead, ice cream keeps a lot better in the freezer than pizza and that's more important than how eager I am to find out what it tastes like.  It does mean twice as much guilt.  I will have to eat a stalk of broccoli this weekend.

My roommate and I watched an anime about a goddess who guides a hero in rescuing a world, but it is humorous because he assumes everything is a trap, cautious, and she always wants him to be a more stereotypical hero.

I pretty much never pass up an opportunity to derail a mafia thread but others are probably going to be mad at you for asking about my New Year's when you complained about game pace in the same post.  How'd you spend your New Year's Glooble?

That answers my question I suppose. I went to a very, very, very swanky party and I didn't realize exactly how swanky it would be so I was underdressed. The my brother-in-law showed up even more underdressed and I felt better.

[EFHW]

I guess most people are recovering from last night? I had a thought about why it was hard to get a lynch. Zombies might be trying to stay off wagon.

Pps Glooble. I'm not alone!

Why would zombies try to stay off the wagon?

Being off wagon increases chance of winning the brain if other zombies want it too.

[EFHW]

It's weird to me that LaLight's brains remain uneaten -- that tells me that all the zombies went for MiX. That could be because of faust's error though. At first people only had one brain to eat and then didn't think to change it. However, it means we may have a lot of starving zombies.

I agree, that is super weird. Maybe there are fewer zombies than we thought?

[EFHW]

What an active game we have going on. Over 12 hours and nothing.

Pops, anything exciting happen to you last night?

My aunt sent me specialty ice cream for Christmas (it arrived really late), cookies and cream, the same flavor my brother and I both like.  So rather than going out and drinking I decided to watch Netflix and find out how good it is.  I ended up not eating it though because my roommate ordered a pizza so I ate pizza instead, ice cream keeps a lot better in the freezer than pizza and that's more important than how eager I am to find out what it tastes like.  It does mean twice as much guilt.  I will have to eat a stalk of broccoli this weekend.

My roommate and I watched an anime about a goddess who guides a hero in rescuing a world, but it is humorous because he assumes everything is a trap, cautious, and she always wants him to be a more stereotypical hero.

I pretty much never pass up an opportunity to derail a mafia thread but others are probably going to be mad at you for asking about my New Year's when you complained about game pace in the same post.  How'd you spend your New Year's Glooble?

I could have sworn he meant the mafia night, not new year's eve.

[SpaceAnemone]

It's weird to me that LaLight's brains remain uneaten -- that tells me that all the zombies went for MiX. That could be because of faust's error though. At first people only had one brain to eat and then didn't think to change it. However, it means we may have a lot of starving zombies.

I take it from this comment and faust's words "was in fact lynched" that the inital flip text said that it was a no-lynch or something? I didn't see the thread when it said anything else. What vote wasn't counted?

[SpaceAnemone]

Looking at the D1 votes, it's hard to tell whether scum had to lift a finger to ensure a town lynch.

Pops was the first on LL at #119. So far I think Pops just doesn't have the meta or knowledge of the current player base to make good reads.
Pops also doubles done on the LL vote at #196. Again, I thing this is a bad/uninformed reading of LL, and I already argued pre-flip why LL's behaviour seemed townie to me.
Shraeye joins at #278. I suspect he probably doesn't "get" LL in the same way he doesn't get me. So it's quite likely he had a genuine scumread and was behaving along town lines.
Glooble's vote at #301 seems low-effort, and his subsequent post mentions deadline availability, which adds pressure.
Didds at #313 is similar in a blame-it-on-the-deadline way.
Swan at least offers up Joth as an alternative he'd be willing to go to, though I'm not sure how feasible it would have been to test him on that, so perhaps it's a safe thing to say even as scum.
EFHW at #331 is in a similar vein to Didds, and the next post is a VC request, which serves to underline the sense of urgency and lack of information.
Galz at #334 is not too surprising, because he was one of the leading alternatives, and his post timing seems like he was genuinely waiting for a VC. (Which means we really need someone in a US timezone making VCs if faust is setting the deadline to be early morning in Germany, since I can't help out with auto-VCs in the middle of my night either).
ADK hammers at #336, but they've since flipped town.

Of those votes, if there are scum casually slinking on, then I guess Glooble, Didds, and EFHW look the worst.

[WestCoastDidds]

It's weird to me that LaLight's brains remain uneaten -- that tells me that all the zombies went for MiX. That could be because of faust's error though. At first people only had one brain to eat and then didn't think to change it. However, it means we may have a lot of starving zombies.

I take it from this comment and faust's words "was in fact lynched" that the inital flip text said that it was a no-lynch or something? I didn't see the thread when it said anything else. What vote wasn't counted?

Yeah....there was initially a no lynch, but then it was corrected. I don’t know whose vote was missed in that process, though

[WestCoastDidds]

Day 1 Final Vote Count

Galzria (3): SpaceAnemone, shraeye, LaLight
Glooble (1): Awaclus
LaLight (7): popsofctown, shraeye, Glooble, DatSwan, WestCoastDidds, EFHW, Galzria
A Drowned Kernel (1): jotheonah
jotheonah (2): Archetype, A Drowned Kernel

Not Voting (0)


With 13 alive, it took 7 to lynch.

Space, this was the final vote. It doesn’t match your order. Galz was the hammer, not ADK. Shraeye is listed twice (on LL and Galz) so I’m guessing that was the vote faust missed initially.

[shraeye]

Uffda, that wagon analysis demands a

Vote: SpaceAnemone

It would be more effective if I hadn't already had to vote over their boo/shame post earlier.

[Swowl]

It's weird to me that LaLight's brains remain uneaten -- that tells me that all the zombies went for MiX. That could be because of faust's error though. At first people only had one brain to eat and then didn't think to change it. However, it means we may have a lot of starving zombies.

I take it from this comment and faust's words "was in fact lynched" that the inital flip text said that it was a no-lynch or something? I didn't see the thread when it said anything else. What vote wasn't counted?

full disclosure - I believe it was me. I was on LL but the final VT had me on Joth. I asked faust if it was a mistake so I could know if my vote was being messed with. Then they changed it and flipped LL.

[Swowl]

Day 1 Final Vote Count

Galzria (3): SpaceAnemone, shraeye, LaLight
Glooble (1): Awaclus
LaLight (7): popsofctown, shraeye, Glooble, DatSwan, WestCoastDidds, EFHW, Galzria
A Drowned Kernel (1): jotheonah
jotheonah (2): Archetype, A Drowned Kernel

Not Voting (0)


With 13 alive, it took 7 to lynch.

Space, this was the final vote. It doesn’t match your order. Galz was the hammer, not ADK. Shraeye is listed twice (on LL and Galz) so I’m guessing that was the vote faust missed initially.

Shraeye, should of you been on two players or was that a mistake?

[Swowl]

I just got home from holiday and have not had time to dig into this and it is 1am so it will have to wait until tomorrow, but...

1) Space hate is un warranted in my opinion from the vca post. They obviously were running it off of the Final VC prior to the change. It was most likely just an error.

2) The brain eating order probably not the best idea. Basing that off of 2 things:
   a) LL was not eaten last night, which would suggest the demand for brains is lower than what we seem to of been assuming
   b) If we assume "skum" is all zombie, then it would also just give skum the algorithm to ensure they get the brains. Not like 100% but, based on the point system, I assume it could give
       them an upper hand.

happy NY everyone.

[Swowl]

IDK what to make of the ADK death. I want to say that it makes pops look skummy, but also I guess skum would of done that for WIFOM anyways.

[SpaceAnemone]

Day 1 Final Vote Count

Galzria (3): SpaceAnemone, shraeye, LaLight
Glooble (1): Awaclus
LaLight (7): popsofctown, shraeye, Glooble, DatSwan, WestCoastDidds, EFHW, Galzria
A Drowned Kernel (1): jotheonah
jotheonah (2): Archetype, A Drowned Kernel

Not Voting (0)


With 13 alive, it took 7 to lynch.

Space, this was the final vote. It doesn’t match your order. Galz was the hammer, not ADK. Shraeye is listed twice (on LL and Galz) so I’m guessing that was the vote faust missed initially.

To create my list I simply viewed the thread and then searched for "vote: L", skipping over the places where the vote was in a quote. Low-tech solution I know, but I haven't actually set up my auto-VC for this game yet because holidays were busy and now work is busy. Same old.

So yeah, my order wasn't specifically intending to reflect the vote count, and I wasn't recording where other people moved off-wagon again. I think the real relevant question is who was actually dropping votes on LL, and what their stated reasoning was/how likely it was they would do that as scum.

[SpaceAnemone]

In unrelated news, I've just booked two Budapest apartments for my birthday trip later in the year :-o This time I'm taking 10 friends are we're going to do so many escape rooms and hot baths and lots of eating and boardgaming :-)

(For people who aren't Didds, this is kind of relevant because Didds and I met up in Budapest last year and it was awesome!)

[WestCoastDidds]

In unrelated news, I've just booked two Budapest apartments for my birthday trip later in the year :-o This time I'm taking 10 friends are we're going to do so many escape rooms and hot baths and lots of eating and boardgaming :-)

(For people who aren't Didds, this is kind of relevant because Didds and I met up in Budapest last year and it was awesome!)

OMG! OMG! That is so awesome!!! You’ll have to do the Gellert v. Széchenyi bath showdown. And the escape game! I’m so excited for you. When is your birthday???

[popsofctown]

It could have been lots and lots of zombies all tried to eat Mix's brain and no one tried to eat LaLight's brain, because they thought LaLight's brain would be the popular one, and they guessed wrong.

[shraeye]

I just got home from holiday and have not had time to dig into this and it is 1am so it will have to wait until tomorrow, but...

1) Space hate is un warranted in my opinion from the vca post. They obviously were running it off of the Final VC prior to the change. It was most likely just an error.

2) The brain eating order probably not the best idea. Basing that off of 2 things:
   a) LL was not eaten last night, which would suggest the demand for brains is lower than what we seem to of been assuming
   b) If we assume "skum" is all zombie, then it would also just give skum the algorithm to ensure they get the brains. Not like 100% but, based on the point system, I assume it could give
       them an upper hand.

happy NY everyone.

Why do you think my space hate is because she used the wrong Final Vote??

[Galzria]

Prod avoidance.

I’m at work right now but will read and post tonight before going to bed.

[Archetype]

Catching up.

Want to get this out there: I’m a Death Miller/miller and share the same alignment as shraeye in investigation and in my death. Faust also said my flip will include my Miller role.

[Awaclus]

Vote: Glooble seems good

[EFHW]

Catching up.

Want to get this out there: I’m a Death Miller/miller and share the same alignment as shraeye in investigation and in my death. Faust also said my flip will include my Miller role.

Does this mean that if you are investigated, Shraeye's alignment will be revealed instead? Or the same alignment as would be reported for Shraeye (which may or may not be accurate)? Why is your flip important?

[EFHW]

IDK what to make of the ADK death. I want to say that it makes pops look skummy, but also I guess skum would of done that for WIFOM anyways.

Who would you have chosen and why?

[EFHW]

I just got home from holiday and have not had time to dig into this and it is 1am so it will have to wait until tomorrow, but...

1) Space hate is un warranted in my opinion from the vca post. They obviously were running it off of the Final VC prior to the change. It was most likely just an error.

I could be mistaken, but I doubt Shraeye's vote was for the mistake. It had a finger wagging quality to it, and I myself didn't care for being characterized as slinking scum. Could be scummy mudslinging, but my OMGUS is telling me to wait for more indications of their alignment before voting.

2) The brain eating order probably not the best idea. Basing that off of 2 things:
   a) LL was not eaten last night, which would suggest the demand for brains is lower than what we seem to of been assuming
   b) If we assume "skum" is all zombie, then it would also just give skum the algorithm to ensure they get the brains. Not like 100% but, based on the point system, I assume it could give
       them an upper hand.

happy NY everyone.

I don't see how scum could take advantage of this plan. If zombies are all scum as well, they can just share the brains in their qt. But it's really improbable that zombie=scum. Maybe you shouldn't spell out how scum could benefit, but the plan does seem like a reasonable precaution. I think the main problem with it is that some of the zombie points will be public knowledge, and people could ignore the plan and pick where to vote based on who is supposed to vote where and what their scores are likely to be. We don't have a great track record of all town players cooperating with plans made in thread.

[EFHW]

Just to clarify, it was Space's post that felt like finger-wagging, not Shraeye's vote.

[jotheonah]

Vote: Glooble seems good

interesting. why?

[Awaclus]

Vote: Glooble seems good

interesting. why?

Why not?

[EFHW]

Vote: Glooble seems good

interesting. why?

I didn't bother.

[Swowl]

I just got home from holiday and have not had time to dig into this and it is 1am so it will have to wait until tomorrow, but...

1) Space hate is un warranted in my opinion from the vca post. They obviously were running it off of the Final VC prior to the change. It was most likely just an error.

2) The brain eating order probably not the best idea. Basing that off of 2 things:
   a) LL was not eaten last night, which would suggest the demand for brains is lower than what we seem to of been assuming
   b) If we assume "skum" is all zombie, then it would also just give skum the algorithm to ensure they get the brains. Not like 100% but, based on the point system, I assume it could give
       them an upper hand.

happy NY everyone.

Why do you think my space hate is because she used the wrong Final Vote??

it was the general vibe I was getting based on all the comments about how a lot of the stuff they said was based on an inaccurate eod vote count.

[Swowl]

We don't have a great track record of all town players cooperating with plans made in thread.

yeah, that is part of the reason why I am trying to shut it down

[Swowl]

We don't have a great track record of all town players cooperating with plans made in thread.

yeah, that is part of the reason why I am trying to shut it down

so wait... I am saying do not do the plan, and you are saying the plan most likely will not work. Is your disagreement simply based on the fact that I think skum are zombies? I assumed that was everyone's general consensus - like syllogism wise - "not all zombies are skum, but all skum are zombies". I was making that inference off of the posted win cons in OP. I don't see how that could not be the case.

[Swowl]

why does it keep re quoting me!!! sorry.

[EFHW]

If all scum were zombies, Lalight's brain would have been eaten.

[EFHW]

Vote: Glooble seems good

Hold on a second, Glooble has soft-claimed an important role. Why are you so confident that isn't true? And to get any kind of traction on this particular wagon, you would need to make a pretty strong case.

[Awaclus]

Vote: Glooble seems good

Hold on a second, Glooble has soft-claimed an important role. Why are you so confident that isn't true? And to get any kind of traction on this particular wagon, you would need to make a pretty strong case.

Why are you so confident that it is true, when it's a completely non-falsifiable statement?

[shraeye]

I just got home from holiday and have not had time to dig into this and it is 1am so it will have to wait until tomorrow, but...

1) Space hate is un warranted in my opinion from the vca post. They obviously were running it off of the Final VC prior to the change. It was most likely just an error.

2) The brain eating order probably not the best idea. Basing that off of 2 things:
   a) LL was not eaten last night, which would suggest the demand for brains is lower than what we seem to of been assuming
   b) If we assume "skum" is all zombie, then it would also just give skum the algorithm to ensure they get the brains. Not like 100% but, based on the point system, I assume it could give
       them an upper hand.

happy NY everyone.

Why do you think my space hate is because she used the wrong Final Vote??

it was the general vibe I was getting based on all the comments about how a lot of the stuff they said was based on an inaccurate eod vote count.

I'm way more interested in alignment/intent than I am about fixing inaccurate bdetails

[SpaceAnemone]

Day 1 Final Vote Count

Galzria (3): SpaceAnemone, shraeye, LaLight
Glooble (1): Awaclus
LaLight (7): popsofctown, shraeye, Glooble, DatSwan, WestCoastDidds, EFHW, Galzria
A Drowned Kernel (1): jotheonah
jotheonah (2): Archetype, A Drowned Kernel

Not Voting (0)


With 13 alive, it took 7 to lynch.

Space, this was the final vote. It doesn’t match your order. Galz was the hammer, not ADK. Shraeye is listed twice (on LL and Galz) so I’m guessing that was the vote faust missed initially.

I think the order of faust's VC is unconventional, in that WCD and Swan should appear the other way around if we follow the convention of listing people in order of when they firt cast a vote for the player in question. WCD voted for LL at #313, Swan at #328.

Yes, I guess Galz was the hammer rather than ADK, given that the game was down to 13 players. I should perhaps re-interpret my "his vote was justified" a little, but I think it's accurate that there's not much you can read into a vote or hammer on the leading wagon when he himself was the leading counterwagon.

Why specificly did it bother you that my order doesn't match faust's? Do you think it changes how suspicious we should be of the various players?

[SpaceAnemone]

@faust: in the event of a player death when the VC is not reset, do votes from players who've voting for the newly-dead player automatically get set to "not voting"?

Up till now, I think I've only had to use my auto-VC on games with the kinds of deaths that always reset the voting, and I'm finding it annoyingly messy to adapt :-P

[SpaceAnemone]

If all scum were zombies, Lalight's brain would have been eaten.

If more than one scum was on the zombie team, would they not have split their attempts though night-time communication? So rather than "not all scum are zombies", it sort of points to "no more than one scum zombie". Though I say "sort of points to" because I assume there could be other mechanisms at play, like someone being able to block brain-eating or something.

[SpaceAnemone]

I just got home from holiday and have not had time to dig into this and it is 1am so it will have to wait until tomorrow, but...

1) Space hate is un warranted in my opinion from the vca post. They obviously were running it off of the Final VC prior to the change. It was most likely just an error.

Why do you think my space hate is because she used the wrong Final Vote??

it was the general vibe I was getting based on all the comments about how a lot of the stuff they said was based on an inaccurate eod vote count.

I'm way more interested in alignment/intent than I am about fixing inaccurate bdetails

The entire point of my votes-for-LL post was to look for intent and try to infer something about alignemnt. You've said I did it badly, but you haven't said anything else yourself to further the discussion in useful directions.

As for alignment and weird indications, I'm actually confused about WCD's reaction to my vote list not matching the VC. I gave post numbers for almost every vote, and it's trivial to check that I wasn't making them up, so why pull up a point about the ordering when it's not relevant to what my post was about, and I clearly wasn't even using the VC to construct the list of who voted when and under what circumstances, becasue otherwise I wouldn't have made the error of attributing the hammer to ADK instead of Galz.

[SpaceAnemone]

In unrelated news, I've just booked two Budapest apartments for my birthday trip later in the year :-o This time I'm taking 10 friends are we're going to do so many escape rooms and hot baths and lots of eating and boardgaming :-)

(For people who aren't Didds, this is kind of relevant because Didds and I met up in Budapest last year and it was awesome!)

OMG! OMG! That is so awesome!!! You’ll have to do the Gellert v. Széchenyi bath showdown. And the escape game! I’m so excited for you. When is your birthday???

It's in the week before Easter, so for once I'm glad to have a birthday when friends have holiday time!

As for Gellert vs Széchenyi, I think Széchenyi is the one I feel most excited personally about revisiting :-)

[WestCoastDidds]

As for alignment and weird indications, I'm actually confused about WCD's reaction to my vote list not matching the VC. I gave post numbers for almost every vote, and it's trivial to check that I wasn't making them up, so why pull up a point about the ordering when it's not relevant to what my post was about, and I clearly wasn't even using the VC to construct the list of who voted when and under what circumstances, becasue otherwise I wouldn't have made the error of attributing the hammer to ADK instead of Galz.

You’ve made a much bigger deal of this than I did. My point was really just that ADK hadn’t been the hammer.

[popsofctown]

Vote:jorheonah I had a dream that he was scum. 

[EFHW]

Vote: Glooble seems good

Hold on a second, Glooble has soft-claimed an important role. Why are you so confident that isn't true? And to get any kind of traction on this particular wagon, you would need to make a pretty strong case.

Why are you so confident that it is true, when it's a completely non-falsifiable statement?

I'm not. But you want to lynch him. That suggests you strongly disbelieve him. I'm interested in your thoughts on that subject.

[faust]

@faust: in the event of a player death when the VC is not reset, do votes from players who've voting for the newly-dead player automatically get set to "not voting"?

Yes.

[Swowl]

I just got home from holiday and have not had time to dig into this and it is 1am so it will have to wait until tomorrow, but...

1) Space hate is un warranted in my opinion from the vca post. They obviously were running it off of the Final VC prior to the change. It was most likely just an error.

2) The brain eating order probably not the best idea. Basing that off of 2 things:
   a) LL was not eaten last night, which would suggest the demand for brains is lower than what we seem to of been assuming
   b) If we assume "skum" is all zombie, then it would also just give skum the algorithm to ensure they get the brains. Not like 100% but, based on the point system, I assume it could give
       them an upper hand.

happy NY everyone.

Why do you think my space hate is because she used the wrong Final Vote??

it was the general vibe I was getting based on all the comments about how a lot of the stuff they said was based on an inaccurate eod vote count.

I'm way more interested in alignment/intent than I am about fixing inaccurate bdetails

ok.. well assuming you don't know Space's alignment... what is it you believe their intent was with the post?

[Swowl]

If all scum were zombies, Lalight's brain would have been eaten.

If more than one scum was on the zombie team, would they not have split their attempts though night-time communication? So rather than "not all scum are zombies", it sort of points to "no more than one scum zombie". Though I say "sort of points to" because I assume there could be other mechanisms at play, like someone being able to block brain-eating or something.

concept from the other side here. Town Zombies...

You get +1 if it is a shared faction according to the set up. so, they flipped town... so that is +1 if you are a town zombie.
You get +1 if you ended the day not voting for LL

Really, I guess the only town negative points would be; -1 for taking another night action.

But still that puts a town zombie at +1 (with a night action) on eating LL's brain if they were not on the wagon.

Skum Zombie could get..
+1 for not being on wagon
+.5 if you are not town aligned
Then the same -1 for taking a night action.


So if skum thinks there is town zombies, then it wouldn't really make sense for them to try to eat LL's brain if they took a night action.
Alternatively, if there are town zombies who assume there are skum zombies... it would make like zero sense for them to not eat LL's brain if they were off LL's wagon.

The only thing I can think of is that a town zombie was so convinced that skum was 100% off LL that they didn't even bother? But I do not see how that is possible.

Like there is no noted downside to trying and failing as opposed to not trying at all. So, since LL's brain is not gone, I assume that there is a blocking mechanic in play.

[shraeye]

I'm way more interested in alignment/intent than I am about fixing inaccurate bdetails

ok.. well assuming you don't know Space's alignment... what is it you believe their intent was with the post?

Hey, that's a great question!

[Archetype]

Catching up.

Want to get this out there: I’m a Death Miller/miller and share the same alignment as shraeye in investigation and in my death. Faust also said my flip will include my Miller role.

Does this mean that if you are investigated, Shraeye's alignment will be revealed instead? Or the same alignment as would be reported for Shraeye (which may or may not be accurate)? Why is your flip important?

The latter of the two. And that’s just so you know what to expect if I were to die.

[faust]

Vote Count 2.1

SpaceAnemone (1): shraeye
Glooble (1): Awaclus
jotheonah (1): popsofctown

Not Voting (8): SpaceAnemone, Glooble, WestCoastDidds, DatSwan, jotheonah, EFHW, Archetype, Galzria

With 11 alive, it takes 6 to lynch. Day 1 ends on January 08, 2020, 07:00:00 am.

Prods issued on Glooble and Galzria.

[Glooble]

I think it’s very likely that we just got really unlucky and everyone tried to eat MiX’s brain. Look at it this way: Since almost no one was voting for MiX when he died, most town zombies probably get +2 for MiX, whereas several of them were probably voting for LaLight so they only had +1 there. If everyone went for the brain they thought they had the best chance of snagging it make total sense to me that they would all collide.

[EFHW]

Catching up.

Want to get this out there: I’m a Death Miller/miller and share the same alignment as shraeye in investigation and in my death. Faust also said my flip will include my Miller role.

Does this mean that if you are investigated, Shraeye's alignment will be revealed instead? Or the same alignment as would be reported for Shraeye (which may or may not be accurate)? Why is your flip important?

The latter of the two. And that’s just so you know what to expect if I were to die.

Are you going to flip looking like mafia or looking like Shraeye? Why him? Did you choose or were you simply informed?

[EFHW]

Vote:jorheonah I had a dream that he was scum.

I had a dream I was scum. Should I vote myself?

[popsofctown]

Vote:EFHW
Absolutely
That sets you and joth 1-1 on dreams but you post scummier than he does.

If we work together we can save this zombified nation

[EFHW]

Vote:EFHW
Absolutely
That sets you and joth 1-1 on dreams but you post scummier than he does.

If we work together we can save this zombified nation

I don't understand that last bit - if we're working together, are you scum with me? Or are we both town?

[popsofctown]

I'm willing to reach across the aisle if that's what it takes to pass this legislation

[Galzria]

vote: Shraeye until a confirmation about their double-vote from D1 is stated.

Also, still very much feel like Joth is scum.

[Galzria]

Vote:EFHW
Absolutely
That sets you and joth 1-1 on dreams but you post scummier than he does.

If we work together we can save this zombified nation

I don't understand that last bit - if we're working together, are you scum with me? Or are we both town?

Do you have to be the same alignment to work together?

[Galzria]

Vote: Glooble seems good

interesting. why?

Also, this is an example of a scum!Joth post - it's feigned interest, without committing to or engaging a read. He's looking for and prodding Awaclus to flesh out this read more while neither challenging it nor agreeing with it, maximizing his options down the line.

[Awaclus]

Well, now that you mention it. Vote: joth

[WestCoastDidds]

Don’t you get the sense that Joth is a town zombie? If he’s scum, why propose a brain eating plan. If he’s not a zombie, why propose a brain eating plan?

[Galzria]

Don’t you get the sense that Joth is a town zombie? If he’s scum, why propose a brain eating plan. If he’s not a zombie, why propose a brain eating plan?

I’m not confident in either of those reads, no. The “plan” as proposed is barely fleshed (ha) out and feels as though it could be manipulated without much more strict control - something we’re very unlikely to come to an agreement on (and even if we could, is itself open to manipulation).

[jotheonah]

Oh hey everyone thinks I’m scum cool. I need some time to get caught up, but I can make a defense or an alternate case or something tomorrow. And I’ll try and show up in pops’ dreams tonight to reassure him that I’m town.

[SpaceAnemone]

If all scum were zombies, Lalight's brain would have been eaten.

If more than one scum was on the zombie team, would they not have split their attempts though night-time communication? So rather than "not all scum are zombies", it sort of points to "no more than one scum zombie". Though I say "sort of points to" because I assume there could be other mechanisms at play, like someone being able to block brain-eating or something.

concept from the other side here. Town Zombies...

You get +1 if it is a shared faction according to the set up. so, they flipped town... so that is +1 if you are a town zombie.
You get +1 if you ended the day not voting for LL

Really, I guess the only town negative points would be; -1 for taking another night action.

But still that puts a town zombie at +1 (with a night action) on eating LL's brain if they were not on the wagon.

Skum Zombie could get..
+1 for not being on wagon
+.5 if you are not town aligned
Then the same -1 for taking a night action.


So if skum thinks there is town zombies, then it wouldn't really make sense for them to try to eat LL's brain if they took a night action.
Alternatively, if there are town zombies who assume there are skum zombies... it would make like zero sense for them to not eat LL's brain if they were off LL's wagon.

The only thing I can think of is that a town zombie was so convinced that skum was 100% off LL that they didn't even bother? But I do not see how that is possible.

Like there is no noted downside to trying and failing as opposed to not trying at all. So, since LL's brain is not gone, I assume that there is a blocking mechanic in play.

Sure, I get what you're saying. My point was just that if there are two scum zombies, I think they wouldn't both have tried to eat MiX's brain, given that only one of them can possibly eat it. So I'm saying that I think there is at most one scum zombie right now (or possibly that there's more of a mechanism at play to explain why nobody got LL).

The rest of your points are fine, though note that Pops, if a zombie, would almost certainly win MiX's brain, for having both targete him and also killed him, which nobody else really had any chance to do (unless we have more targeting daytime roles?). So anyone going for MiX would have to be confident that Pops wasn't a Zombie, or would be taking a gamble on that at least.

[SpaceAnemone]

I'm way more interested in alignment/intent than I am about fixing inaccurate bdetails

ok.. well assuming you don't know Space's alignment... what is it you believe their intent was with the post?

Hey, that's a great question!

I'm confused by this response. Are you going to say to Swan what you thought my intent was, or am I supposed to explain what I thought my intent was?

[Swowl]

If all scum were zombies, Lalight's brain would have been eaten.

If more than one scum was on the zombie team, would they not have split their attempts though night-time communication? So rather than "not all scum are zombies", it sort of points to "no more than one scum zombie". Though I say "sort of points to" because I assume there could be other mechanisms at play, like someone being able to block brain-eating or something.

concept from the other side here. Town Zombies...

You get +1 if it is a shared faction according to the set up. so, they flipped town... so that is +1 if you are a town zombie.
You get +1 if you ended the day not voting for LL

Really, I guess the only town negative points would be; -1 for taking another night action.

But still that puts a town zombie at +1 (with a night action) on eating LL's brain if they were not on the wagon.

Skum Zombie could get..
+1 for not being on wagon
+.5 if you are not town aligned
Then the same -1 for taking a night action.


So if skum thinks there is town zombies, then it wouldn't really make sense for them to try to eat LL's brain if they took a night action.
Alternatively, if there are town zombies who assume there are skum zombies... it would make like zero sense for them to not eat LL's brain if they were off LL's wagon.

The only thing I can think of is that a town zombie was so convinced that skum was 100% off LL that they didn't even bother? But I do not see how that is possible.

Like there is no noted downside to trying and failing as opposed to not trying at all. So, since LL's brain is not gone, I assume that there is a blocking mechanic in play.

Sure, I get what you're saying. My point was just that if there are two scum zombies, I think they wouldn't both have tried to eat MiX's brain, given that only one of them can possibly eat it. So I'm saying that I think there is at most one scum zombie right now (or possibly that there's more of a mechanism at play to explain why nobody got LL).

The rest of your points are fine, though note that Pops, if a zombie, would almost certainly win MiX's brain, for having both targete him and also killed him, which nobody else really had any chance to do (unless we have more targeting daytime roles?). So anyone going for MiX would have to be confident that Pops wasn't a Zombie, or would be taking a gamble on that at least.

Had not considered the pops thing. You are of course right. If pops is zombie then they for sure eat mix brain.
So what does that mean?
If pops is zombie and has other zombie partner (assuming skum), LL not being eaten would be weird.
If pops is zombie and has no zombie partner, then ok.
Or pops  could be town zombie.

But i think that since LL is not eaten but mix is it makes me think pops is some variation of zombie.

[Galzria]

Why are we zombie hunting again? That serves... what purpose?

[popsofctown]

I like a joth/efoo scumteam right now but I'm willing to drop joth from my solve if he doesn't stand me up tonight and shows up in my dreams and does town things.

[WestCoastDidds]

Why are we zombie hunting again? That serves... what purpose?

Right?

Maybe you could get us started on a more productive line of thinking...

[Galzria]

Why are we zombie hunting again? That serves... what purpose?

Right?

Maybe you could get us started on a more productive line of thinking...

Vote Shrey. Or Joth. Both are more productive discussion points.

[shraeye]

Why are we zombie hunting again? That serves... what purpose?

Why are you PR hunting?  That serves... what purpose?

Vote: Galz

[shraeye]

That, and Galz calling out joth like that is malarkey

[Galzria]

Why are we zombie hunting again? That serves... what purpose?

Why are you PR hunting?  That serves... what purpose?

Vote: Galz

Lol 100% on my vote now. Will not change.

[Glooble]

vote: joth

[WestCoastDidds]

vote: joth

Why’s that?

[jotheonah]

What L am I at?

I might partial claim so we don't waste time lynching me today.

[jotheonah]

Oh what the heck. Last night, someone gave me a vial of zombie cure. As a night action, I can turn a zombie human. I know this doesn't prove my alignment, but since I am town, I would like to use it before you lynch me. That does mean either someone is going to have to claim zombie or trust me to have strong zombie reads.

[Glooble]

Hmmm. Interesting.

vote: EFHW I guess.


I am a zombie, btw. If you don't want to trust your reads.

[SpaceAnemone]

This is the current Space Count

EFHW (2): popsofctown, Glooble
Shraeye (1): Galzria
jotheonah (1): Awaclus
Galzria (1): Shraeye
Not Voting (6): SpaceAnemone, WestCoastDidds, DatSwan, jotheonah, EFHW, Archetype

Disclaimer: faust accepted a particularly malformed Joth vote at #397 which my counter would ordinarily have missed, so I'm less confident than usual that my space count will match the mod's official record.

[jotheonah]

This is the current Space Count

EFHW (2): popsofctown, Glooble
Shraeye (1): Galzria
jotheonah (1): Awaclus
Galzria (1): Shraeye
Not Voting (6): SpaceAnemone, WestCoastDidds, DatSwan, jotheonah, EFHW, Archetype

Disclaimer: faust accepted a particularly malformed Joth vote at #397 which my counter would ordinarily have missed, so I'm less confident than usual that my space count will match the mod's official record.

this can't possibly be right... shraeye voted for me at the top of this page, and I'm pretty sure Galz is on me as well.

[jotheonah]

This is the current Space Count

EFHW (2): popsofctown, Glooble
Shraeye (1): Galzria
jotheonah (1): Awaclus
Galzria (1): Shraeye
Not Voting (6): SpaceAnemone, WestCoastDidds, DatSwan, jotheonah, EFHW, Archetype

Disclaimer: faust accepted a particularly malformed Joth vote at #397 which my counter would ordinarily have missed, so I'm less confident than usual that my space count will match the mod's official record.

this can't possibly be right... shraeye voted for me at the top of this page, and I'm pretty sure Galz is on me as well.

oh wait, shraeye voted Galz

[jotheonah]

huh. well it looks like not that many people are voting for me after all. wish I hadn't claimed! oops. haha I need to pay more attention to this game. whatever.

[SpaceAnemone]

I think Galz-v-Shraeye is going to be an interesting re-read for later.

On the one hand, Shraeye seems to be my biggest not-fan at the moment, and yet he's now gunning for the player I spent all of D1 voting for.

On the other hand, Galz is the only player to have a known-from-my-PoV all-town wagon of at least 3 players in D1, because there were a couple of points where it was just me, LL and ADK. However, Arch, Swan and even Shraeye all joined Galz's wagon over D1 at various points too, so right now I'm thinking he was perhaps just a common town target, so wagons alone aren't likely to be significant.

PPE: 3

[WestCoastDidds]

Vote: Shraeye who is way more low key than he normally is

[SpaceAnemone]

... by "re-read for later" I just mean I'm not getting into that on my lunch break. Not that it's something to come back to in subsequent game days or something.

[shraeye]

I think Galz-v-Shraeye is going to be an interesting re-read for later.

I doubt it

[EFHW]

Vote:EFHW
Absolutely
That sets you and joth 1-1 on dreams but you post scummier than he does.

If we work together we can save this zombified nation

I don't understand that last bit - if we're working together, are you scum with me? Or are we both town?

Do you have to be the same alignment to work together?

Yes, I think so. Different alignments = different agendas. With the exception of the scum being pro-town to try to hide. How do you envision town and mafia working together?

Also, zombies don't seem to really be a threat so far. It's more that they are vulnerable.

[EFHW]

Hmmm. Interesting.

vote: EFHW I guess.


I am a zombie, btw. If you don't want to trust your reads.

Did you get brains to eat last night?

[popsofctown]

Has anyone watched the show to know if joth's ability is plausible?  In a lot of zombie universes the idea of curing a zombie is considered silly.
It only makes sense to cure a zombie if you think the zombie is town, although I think Glooble is town.  And possibly only if the powers to your zombie form a stronger, if you're set up like MiX, which I also assume is what's going on with Glooble or else he wouldn't claim.
I don't think any other zombies should claim.
joth should be on record of what he thinks of Glooble, if he says tomorrow "oh I think Glooble is scum and I want him to go Romero so I gave it to X, oh X isn't a zombie haha" that's a grey area there's no reason not to rule that out now.  That way if joth is scum we are forcing him to cure Glooble.
I guess maybe it's technically possible joth and Glooble are scum together.  That would be really fancy.  I think Glooble is town though.

[popsofctown]

Hmmm. Interesting.

vote: EFHW I guess.


I am a zombie, btw. If you don't want to trust your reads.

Did you get brains to eat last night?

Glooble don't answer this.

There might be a way from scum to roleblock your cure but they also might have other stuff they want to do with the roleblock.  It's better if they don't know to what extent roleblocking the cure harms you

[popsofctown]

efoo is a little scummy for asking.  Although it's natural to be curious.  It's extra natural for scum though

[EFHW]

efoo is a little scummy for asking.  Although it's natural to be curious.  It's extra natural for scum though

Glooble didn't need to volunteer the information that he is a zombie. You're probably right that he shouldn't answer. It was the next logical thing to ask. I'm trusting town!him to know what to do.

[Swowl]

Oh what the heck. Last night, someone gave me a vial of zombie cure. As a night action, I can turn a zombie human. I know this doesn't prove my alignment, but since I am town, I would like to use it before you lynch me. That does mean either someone is going to have to claim zombie or trust me to have strong zombie reads.

So not to be the negative nancy here... but I fail to see how you receiving an item makes you town.

[Swowl]

I am a zombie, btw. If you don't want to trust your reads.

I believe this. Glooble had a few Day 1 posts focusing on the value of brains and etc. It made me think they were zombie back then, so I feel this claim is believable.

[Swowl]

Has anyone else considered any potential value for skum in claiming zombie (whether true or not)?

Like I don't have anything per say, but if Zombie is not in fact indicative of Skum alignment, then by changing from zombie to human, one would still be skum yes?

[Glooble]

Has anyone else considered any potential value for skum in claiming zombie (whether true or not)?

Like I don't have anything per say, but if Zombie is not in fact indicative of Skum alignment, then by changing from zombie to human, one would still be skum yes?

Yes, but going Romero is way worse for scum than it is for town, since scum have more to lose from a random death. So ideally we'd like to not turn the scum zombies human (and if we can turn the scum humans zombie, that's be good too.)

[jotheonah]

Oh what the heck. Last night, someone gave me a vial of zombie cure. As a night action, I can turn a zombie human. I know this doesn't prove my alignment, but since I am town, I would like to use it before you lynch me. That does mean either someone is going to have to claim zombie or trust me to have strong zombie reads.

So not to be the negative nancy here... but I fail to see how you receiving an item makes you town.

It doesn’t? But offering to use it for town benefit might? And also, whether you believe I’m town or not I’d hope it at least keeps me safe for one night so I can use it.

[SpaceAnemone]

Has anyone watched the show to know if joth's ability is plausible?  In a lot of zombie universes the idea of curing a zombie is considered silly.

There's definitely the concept of a cure in the show. I mentioned it in-thread during D1:

There are zombie cures in the show, and people definitely can go back to being human after being zombies... there's just usually some plot reason why the main character can't do it!

You can google "izombie cure" for a wiki page about it.

I feel like it's likely that the setup allows for people going in both directions, but I would expect a net drift from human to zombie.

Is your inference about Joth's alignment in any way conditioned on whether it's likely that his cure really exists?

[SpaceAnemone]

Hmmm. Interesting.

vote: EFHW I guess.


I am a zombie, btw. If you don't want to trust your reads.

Did you get brains to eat last night?

Glooble don't answer this.

There might be a way from scum to roleblock your cure but they also might have other stuff they want to do with the roleblock.  It's better if they don't know to what extent roleblocking the cure harms you

@Pops, your focus on the role-blocking issue, and complete omission of how Glooble's response migth reflect on your own zombiness, feels weird to me.

@Glooble, if you tried to eat MiX's brains and didn't get any, then the most likely conclusion is that either scum pipped you to the post (in which case Pops is likely non-zombie), or that zombie!Pops got them (as any alignment). If you tried to eat LL's brains, then that tells us that maybe there's something that can role-block the eating process. If you targetted MiX and ate the brain, then if you're town it probably tells us there are some hungry scum zombies out there (or no scum zombies, or scum zombies who had more pressing night actions to do than eating, assuming you didn't also take an additional action last night), or possibly it tells us you're marginally more likely to be scum, and also that Pops is likely not to be a zombie at the moment. Sure, there are lots of options, but don't forget that you have all this extra info that Pops is ordering you not to share with the rest of us :-P

[faust]

Vote Count 2.2

EFHW (2): popsofctown, Glooble
shraeye (2): Galzria, WestCoastDidds
jotheonah (1): Awaclus
Galzria (1): shraeye

Not Voting (5): SpaceAnemone, DatSwan, jotheonah, EFHW, Archetype

With 11 alive, it takes 6 to lynch. Day 2 ends on January 08, 2020, 07:00:00 am.

That is in 21 hours.

[WestCoastDidds]

21 hours people!

[Galzria]

21 hours people!

Who do you like better than Shraeye? I would strongly prefer not to change, but will if nobody else feels lynching the double-voter-trying-to-pretend-they’re-not is the right play here.

Joth is higher up on my scum reads, and would be my preferred second. There’s no proof he received the item ability he’s claimed to have, no proof Glooble is actually a Zombie, no proof he would (or would be allowed to (ie. Roleblock’s)) use it on Glooble, and no proof Glooble would actually be cured.

I’m also suspicious of Glooble, after the fits he threw D1 about how horrendous his lynch would be, he doesn’t seem overly concerned about his position at this time or being a Zombie in general... which, to be fair, as being a Zombie itself is probably NAI, I’m not entirely certain that my gut reads on this are strictly on point.

[EFHW]

21 hours people!

Who do you like better than Shraeye? I would strongly prefer not to change, but will if nobody else feels lynching the double-voter-trying-to-pretend-they’re-not is the right play here.

You were trying to get mod clarification on whether it was mod error or something else. Did you ever hear anything back?

[WestCoastDidds]

21 hours people!

Who do you like better than Shraeye? I would strongly prefer not to change, but will if nobody else feels lynching the double-voter-trying-to-pretend-they’re-not is the right play here.

Joth is higher up on my scum reads, and would be my preferred second. There’s no proof he received the item ability he’s claimed to have, no proof Glooble is actually a Zombie, no proof he would (or would be allowed to (ie. Roleblock’s)) use it on Glooble, and no proof Glooble would actually be cured.

I’m also suspicious of Glooble, after the fits he threw D1 about how horrendous his lynch would be, he doesn’t seem overly concerned about his position at this time or being a Zombie in general... which, to be fair, as being a Zombie itself is probably NAI, I’m not entirely certain that my gut reads on this are strictly on point.

I can't say that I have a ton of insight. I started this game distracted (like most of us), so I I feel back on my heels.  Shraeye just ignoring the double voter question makes me itchy. He feels like the diet-shraeye that raerae says is Scum!Shraeye...around just enough but mostly under the radar.

Space is doing some of that same thing. Lots of posts with lost of words, but very little that is moving the game forward. (I am guilty of this as well, but Space is far more analytical than I am so I'd expect more analysis.) EFHW is asking lots of questions, but also not really moving us forward (again, I am guilty of this as well but I am turning over a new leaf!).

I am willing to wait to see if Joth can cure Glooble. I feel like Glooble has been towny, and I have zero ability to read Joth but I'm not sure scum!Joth volunteers the information that he has a cure, but I am more sure that scum!Glooble doesn't say "cure me!". It could totally be a twins-scum gambit, but I think waiting to see makes sense.

I don't get pops at all, but I am starting to follow how he thinks.  I don't have an opinion about his scumminess. I have zero experience with Archetype, and I am not sure he is in the game. Awaclus is in this game?

I'd like you and Swan to start showing up more.  Not only because I dig you, but because I often think like ya'll do.  This is especially true of Swan whose stream of consciousness often matches mine. I am not 100% sold on you, but no one has made any good arguments as to why you'd be a good lynch so let's keep talking.

So, I guess my scummy list is Shraeye, Space, and EFHW right now.

[EFHW]

Catching up.

Want to get this out there: I’m a Death Miller/miller and share the same alignment as shraeye in investigation and in my death. Faust also said my flip will include my Miller role.

Does this mean that if you are investigated, Shraeye's alignment will be revealed instead? Or the same alignment as would be reported for Shraeye (which may or may not be accurate)? Why is your flip important?

The latter of the two. And that’s just so you know what to expect if I were to die.

Are you going to flip looking like mafia or looking like Shraeye? Why him? Did you choose or were you simply informed?

Archetype - did you answer this?

[popsofctown]

Hmmm. Interesting.

vote: EFHW I guess.


I am a zombie, btw. If you don't want to trust your reads.

Did you get brains to eat last night?

Glooble don't answer this.

There might be a way from scum to roleblock your cure but they also might have other stuff they want to do with the roleblock.  It's better if they don't know to what extent roleblocking the cure harms you

@Pops, your focus on the role-blocking issue, and complete omission of how Glooble's response migth reflect on your own zombiness, feels weird to me.

@Glooble, if you tried to eat MiX's brains and didn't get any, then the most likely conclusion is that either scum pipped you to the post (in which case Pops is likely non-zombie), or that zombie!Pops got them (as any alignment). If you tried to eat LL's brains, then that tells us that maybe there's something that can role-block the eating process. If you targetted MiX and ate the brain, then if you're town it probably tells us there are some hungry scum zombies out there (or no scum zombies, or scum zombies who had more pressing night actions to do than eating, assuming you didn't also take an additional action last night), or possibly it tells us you're marginally more likely to be scum, and also that Pops is likely not to be a zombie at the moment. Sure, there are lots of options, but don't forget that you have all this extra info that Pops is ordering you not to share with the rest of us :-P

If you were in a setup where a random half of the players had the Macho modifier and there was an Informed player who starts the game knowing who all of those players are, would you start of the game telling him to tell everyone who all the machos are?  That's how I view this.

I mean maybe you will say yes maybe you're just actually super bad at mafia theory I can't really tell yet.

I don't really like the way joth was excited about claiming his item at a drastically sooner point than he is excited about claiming his role. It's scum indicative, it might mean he is something like Framer that tends to be a scum role, but he got the item from a townie and is excited to tell us about it. 

I have been townreading shraeye all game, I'm definitely not voting there.

[jotheonah]

I'm down for vote: shraeye. Man this game really got away from us.

[EFHW]

I'm thinking joth, Shraeye or pops. Or Archetype. I'll be sure to vote in time, but I'm not ready to decide yet.

[EFHW]

I guess it would be reckless to vote joth today. Let's see what happens tomorrow for him.

[shraeye]

I'm thinking joth, Shraeye or pops. Or Archetype. I'll be sure to vote in time, but I'm not ready to decide yet.

I think that whole list is town.  Try something else

[Glooble]

I’m also suspicious of Glooble, after the fits he threw D1 about how horrendous his lynch would be, he doesn’t seem overly concerned about his position at this time or being a Zombie in general... which, to be fair, as being a Zombie itself is probably NAI, I’m not entirely certain that my gut reads on this are strictly on point.

What I said was it would be very bad if I were lynched Day 1. It would have been.

It's only normal amount of bad if I'm lynched day 2.

Sorry I haven't been very active this game. Work has been crazy since we got back after the holiday so I can't really get on during the day like I used to.

[shraeye]

I'm thinking joth, Shraeye or pops. Or Archetype. I'll be sure to vote in time, but I'm not ready to decide yet.

I think that whole list is town.  Try something else

I suggest Galz, his policy vote because he wanted to know my role even though it doesn't/shouldn't have any effect on his play whether I can or can't double vote....is in no way actual scumhunting.

Turning joth into a thing based on the "interesting" comment also smacks of feigned scumhunting.

The fact that the same player started both of those trends is definitely of note

[Awaclus]

Vote: shraeye

[EFHW]

I really would like Galz to answer my question.

[EFHW]

I wouldn't say that a possible double voter isn't relevant to town's interests.

[Galzria]

I really would like Galz to answer my question.

I did not inquire with Faust. It’s been a prominent point of discussion and my expectation for any MOD would be to correct a mistake if it’s impacting game play - thus my working theory that it’s not a mistake, and further Shraeye’s unwillingness to engage with what I consider to be a public piece of information combined subsequently with his attempt to gloss over it to pretend it doesn’t exist is the primary factor coloring my read on him.

His complete dismissal of the extremely valid read of Joth’s reaction just furthers that read tbh.

I agree with Pops: Yesterday Shraeye read very Town to me. Today has been the exact opposite. So... yeah. I prefer Shraeye. Joth would be second, maybe Glooble third. Archetype for his lack of relevance fourth, and everybody except Swan, Pops & Didds fall somewhere between.

[WestCoastDidds]

Deadline is at 6am for me, so there is maybe a 20% chance I’m up then. More likely not.

[Glooble]

vote: shraeye

Deadline is right as I'm leaving the house. If I wake up before my alarm I'll hop on for a bit.

[shraeye]

I like best that Galz-"did-not-check-with-mod"-ria, who is normally a VERY analytical player who does amazingly deep re-reads of the thread didn't notice that the Final Vote count was last corrected 30 minutes after DatSwan pointed out that I was on two people, didn't bother to check that things were updated 2 days before his policy vote, and didn't reread or examine anything before he dove into the deep end on "shraeye hasn't confirmed anything so is scum".

If Galz cared about scumhunting in this scenario, he would realize that
A) pointing out a double-voter isn't necessary
B) things had been clearly edited to show I wasn't
C) not responding to his question (or DatSwan's observation) was unconventional and thus easy to paint as scummy, but also something that scum would NEVER DO because of the attention it would bring

so, for emphasis,
vote: Galz

[Archetype]

Catching up.

Want to get this out there: I’m a Death Miller/miller and share the same alignment as shraeye in investigation and in my death. Faust also said my flip will include my Miller role.

Does this mean that if you are investigated, Shraeye's alignment will be revealed instead? Or the same alignment as would be reported for Shraeye (which may or may not be accurate)? Why is your flip important?

The latter of the two. And that’s just so you know what to expect if I were to die.

Are you going to flip looking like mafia or looking like Shraeye? Why him? Did you choose or were you simply informed?

Archetype - did you answer this?

My alignment will be whatever shraeye’s is. I also don’t think shraeye is scum.

[EFHW]

I don't know how Archetype will feel about this, but there is an argument for lynching him. Shraeye then is IC or caught scum.

[EFHW]

vote: Archetype,  since time is short.

[shraeye]

vote: Archetype,  since time is short.

Nah, do Galz

[Archetype]

I like best that Galz-"did-not-check-with-mod"-ria, who is normally a VERY analytical player who does amazingly deep re-reads of the thread didn't notice that the Final Vote count was last corrected 30 minutes after DatSwan pointed out that I was on two people, didn't bother to check that things were updated 2 days before his policy vote, and didn't reread or examine anything before he dove into the deep end on "shraeye hasn't confirmed anything so is scum".

If Galz cared about scumhunting in this scenario, he would realize that
A) pointing out a double-voter isn't necessary
B) things had been clearly edited to show I wasn't
C) not responding to his question (or DatSwan's observation) was unconventional and thus easy to paint as scummy, but also something that scum would NEVER DO because of the attention it would bring

so, for emphasis,
vote: Galz

You don’t think this is too weak of a case for scum!Galzria to push? The vote count is pretty obviously a mod mistake imo and I would think Galzria would see that if he wasn’t town.

[Archetype]

I don't know how Archetype will feel about this, but there is an argument for lynching him. Shraeye then is IC or caught scum.

Sounds like a poor attempt to get attention off of a scum partner.

[EFHW]

You don't want to be IC?

It is a bit of a crazy plan. It depends on there being some kind of protection for town!Shraeye.

[EFHW]

I don't know how Archetype will feel about this, but there is an argument for lynching him. Shraeye then is IC or caught scum.

Sounds like a poor attempt to get attention off of a scum partner.

Who is the theoretical scum partner?

[EFHW]

I like best that Galz-"did-not-check-with-mod"-ria, who is normally a VERY analytical player who does amazingly deep re-reads of the thread didn't notice that the Final Vote count was last corrected 30 minutes after DatSwan pointed out that I was on two people, didn't bother to check that things were updated 2 days before his policy vote, and didn't reread or examine anything before he dove into the deep end on "shraeye hasn't confirmed anything so is scum".

If Galz cared about scumhunting in this scenario, he would realize that
A) pointing out a double-voter isn't necessary
B) things had been clearly edited to show I wasn't
C) not responding to his question (or DatSwan's observation) was unconventional and thus easy to paint as scummy, but also something that scum would NEVER DO because of the attention it would bring

so, for emphasis,
vote: Galz

You don’t think this is too weak of a case for scum!Galzria to push? The vote count is pretty obviously a mod mistake imo and I would think Galzria would see that if he wasn’t town.

It is a bit weird that he didn't take the corrections into account or ask faust.

[Galzria]

Day 1 Final Vote Count

Galzria (3): SpaceAnemone, shraeye, LaLight
Glooble (1): Awaclus
LaLight (7): popsofctown, shraeye, Glooble, DatSwan, WestCoastDidds, EFHW, Galzria
A Drowned Kernel (1): jotheonah
jotheonah (2): Archetype, A Drowned Kernel

Not Voting (0)


With 13 alive, it took 7 to lynch.

Space, this was the final vote. It doesn’t match your order. Galz was the hammer, not ADK. Shraeye is listed twice (on LL and Galz) so I’m guessing that was the vote faust missed initially.

In my defense, I was basing it off of this post, which was made on January 2nd, well after the day began, and after the corrected missing vote - Datswan’s - that wasn’t on the initial end of day VC. That was the vote that was missing that caused a no-lynch to change into a lynch.

The further correction that Shraeye now points out didn’t occur until January 3rd. Note the latest edit date of Faust on that post. No, I had not gone back AGAIN to check for yet a further correction.

Vote: Archetype

[Archetype]

Vote: joth

Townier people were in favor of him yesterday where the LaLight lynch was pushed.

PPE:

I don't know how Archetype will feel about this, but there is an argument for lynching him. Shraeye then is IC or caught scum.

Sounds like a poor attempt to get attention off of a scum partner.

Who is the theoretical scum partner?

Joth. I agree with, I think pops, who said a joth/EFHW pairing is likely.

[WestCoastDidds]

You don't want to be IC?

It is a bit of a crazy plan. It depends on there being some kind of protection for town!Shraeye.

Ohhhh.....crazy plan! Vote: Archetype

[EFHW]

Day 1 Final Vote Count

Galzria (2): SpaceAnemone, LaLight
Glooble (1): Awaclus
LaLight (7): popsofctown, shraeye, Glooble, DatSwan, WestCoastDidds, EFHW, Galzria
A Drowned Kernel (1): jotheonah
jotheonah (2): Archetype, A Drowned Kernel

Not Voting (0)

With 13 alive, it took 7 to lynch.

Corrected Jan 3rd

[EFHW]

Sorry, I see you just posted that.

[EFHW]

How many of the Shraeye voters were just following Galz?

[Archetype]

So EFHW, do you think I’m scum or town?

[EFHW]

We're headed for no lynch.

@Archetype, I think you are probably town. Your role isn't otherwise helpful to us, unless there is more you haven't told us, and you aren't participating much.

[EFHW]

I admit my suggestion is controversial. People could argue that an IC isn't worth a dead townie. Obviously, caught scum would be.

[Archetype]

We're headed for no lynch.

@Archetype, I think you are probably town. Your role isn't otherwise helpful to us, unless there is more you haven't told us, and you aren't participating much.

There’s much more to it, just no reason to put it out there at this moment

I’m participating more than, say, Awaclus who has only placed opportunistic votes.

[EFHW]

We're headed for no lynch.

@Archetype, I think you are probably town. Your role isn't otherwise helpful to us, unless there is more you haven't told us, and you aren't participating much.

I can think of a scum narrative for you as well. Kind of far-fetched.

[Archetype]

I admit my suggestion is controversial. People could argue that an IC isn't worth a dead townie. Obviously, caught scum would be.

I think it’s a pretty heavy-handed scum one than controversial town one. All it takes is the scum team having a strongman (or town having no protection) and that’s two townies dead.

[EFHW]

I admit my suggestion is controversial. People could argue that an IC isn't worth a dead townie. Obviously, caught scum would be.

I think it’s a pretty heavy-handed scum one than controversial town one. All it takes is the scum team having a strongman (or town having no protection) and that’s two townies dead.

It's not just my decision.  If it's a stupid plan, people won't vote for you.

[EFHW]

If this plan is too cold hearted, pls say so. Archetype just came back and I don't want him to feel unwelcome

[popsofctown]

vote jotheonah. I'd be ok with galz too but I think the Archetype reasoning is closer to crazy dumb than crazy smart.

[Galzria]

Catching up.

Want to get this out there: I’m a Death Miller/miller and share the same alignment as shraeye in investigation and in my death. Faust also said my flip will include my Miller role.

Does this mean that if you are investigated, Shraeye's alignment will be revealed instead? Or the same alignment as would be reported for Shraeye (which may or may not be accurate)? Why is your flip important?

The latter of the two. And that’s just so you know what to expect if I were to die.

Are you going to flip looking like mafia or looking like Shraeye? Why him? Did you choose or were you simply informed?

Archetype - did you answer this?

My alignment will be whatever shraeye’s is. I also don’t think shraeye is scum.

I mean...

Miller, by definition if you’re Town, simply means you investigate as scum. Death Miller means you’ll flip as scum as well as investigate as scum. It’s generally considered a bastard or even beyond bastard role - but even setting that point aside, you’re saying you know for a FACT that Shraeye would also investigate as scum... without knowing whether or not Shraeye is himself also a Miller? Which... doesn’t it seem strange to have two Miller’s in the game? Or given your other knowledge does this seem somewhat more likely than usual to you?

[Galzria]

Back to vote: Shraeye.

Archetype has essentially claimed “scum” (to investigate and flip as scum anyway), but has claimed to be town whose anti-power causes this.

Either he IS scum, in which case arguing such and lynching him is perfectly valid, or he’s Town. But if he’s Town, then his flip and claim thusfar tell us nothing about Shraeye. They cannot IC Shraeye... because even if Archetype is Town & truthful all he’s really told us is that Shraeye will investigate as scum...

However, flipping Shraeye COULD give us information on Archetype. If Shraeye flips as scum or some sort of Miller variant, then it at least tells us that there’s some truth to what Archetype has said. And if Shraeye flips green with no Miller variant, then Archetype is most likely scum himself.

[Swowl]

catching up.

I see Galz' point in flipping Shraeye to learn about Arch... except like I do not think Shraeye has done much super skummy. And I don't see Archtype coming out and claiming what they did blunt like that as Skum (regardless of what Shraeye is).... So I do not like either of those options.

Galz last minute push to Archtype - that was weird. But the Shraeye thing is not skummy. I don't agree with it today, but doesn't make it skummy.

Those are my thoughts, and I am sorry I have been absent.

I have no frikin clue who I wanna vote - I will be back in a moment, need to finish reading.

[Archetype]

Back to vote: Shraeye.

Archetype has essentially claimed “scum” (to investigate and flip as scum anyway), but has claimed to be town whose anti-power causes this.

Either he IS scum, in which case arguing such and lynching him is perfectly valid, or he’s Town. But if he’s Town, then his flip and claim thusfar tell us nothing about Shraeye. They cannot IC Shraeye... because even if Archetype is Town & truthful all he’s really told us is that Shraeye will investigate as scum...

However, flipping Shraeye COULD give us information on Archetype. If Shraeye flips as scum or some sort of Miller variant, then it at least tells us that there’s some truth to what Archetype has said. And if Shraeye flips green with no Miller variant, then Archetype is most likely scum himself.

I think this may be misunderstood a bit. My role name includes Miller/Death Miller, but it is effectively causing me to show up in death/investigation as whatever alignment shraeye is.

[Swowl]

Back to vote: Shraeye.

Archetype has essentially claimed “scum” (to investigate and flip as scum anyway), but has claimed to be town whose anti-power causes this.

Either he IS scum, in which case arguing such and lynching him is perfectly valid, or he’s Town. But if he’s Town, then his flip and claim thusfar tell us nothing about Shraeye. They cannot IC Shraeye... because even if Archetype is Town & truthful all he’s really told us is that Shraeye will investigate as scum...

However, flipping Shraeye COULD give us information on Archetype. If Shraeye flips as scum or some sort of Miller variant, then it at least tells us that there’s some truth to what Archetype has said. And if Shraeye flips green with no Miller variant, then Archetype is most likely scum himself.

I think this may be misunderstood a bit. My role name includes Miller/Death Miller, but it is effectively causing me to show up in death/investigation as whatever alignment shraeye is.

ah. solid clarification there.

So you are essentially a "Shraeye Miller" but you do not know anything regarding what Shraeye is? is that right?

[Archetype]

Back to vote: Shraeye.

Archetype has essentially claimed “scum” (to investigate and flip as scum anyway), but has claimed to be town whose anti-power causes this.

Either he IS scum, in which case arguing such and lynching him is perfectly valid, or he’s Town. But if he’s Town, then his flip and claim thusfar tell us nothing about Shraeye. They cannot IC Shraeye... because even if Archetype is Town & truthful all he’s really told us is that Shraeye will investigate as scum...

However, flipping Shraeye COULD give us information on Archetype. If Shraeye flips as scum or some sort of Miller variant, then it at least tells us that there’s some truth to what Archetype has said. And if Shraeye flips green with no Miller variant, then Archetype is most likely scum himself.

I think this may be misunderstood a bit. My role name includes Miller/Death Miller, but it is effectively causing me to show up in death/investigation as whatever alignment shraeye is.

ah. solid clarification there.

So you are essentially a "Shraeye Miller" but you do not know anything regarding what Shraeye is? is that right?

Yes

[Swowl]

lol hilariously that means the opposite of Galz plan is what would make sense.

We lynch Arche and that happens plus learn Shraeye.

However, I still don't think I like the plan - even the other way around.

[Swowl]

Arche - Do you know if you will flip faction roles zombie/human or what of those that you would flip? Like do you know what info we would learn about Shraeye?

[Galzria]

unvote

Well... Suggestions?

[Galzria]

I will say it feels... troll-y(?)... for that role to be in the game, given to Town, on a Town player... which essentially would mean... it’s non-factor role entirely.

[popsofctown]

it could be on a scum player since deathmillering yourself could be powerful for a scum who wants to hide their association with the other scums.

[popsofctown]

Shoot Archetype You can all stop playing faerie chess and vote for mafia instead of figuring out who is death miller linked by a magic cord to which player's zombie potion to trigger the magic doublevote.  Kill the bad guys.

Look at the people who post with the evil in their hearts and vote them.

Vote: Galzria
I think joth and efoo and Galzria Awaclus are all scummy.  I really don't Galzria's fast oversimple summary about the miller and trying to push the shraeye lynch.
I think Datswan and Space Anemone have good hearts so far I will vote for anyone who isn't town.

I will try to check the pulse on this as many times as I can before I fall asleep let's win this one for the little children that want to grow old enough to play M rated zombie games even though they're a latchkey child because their poor parents became zombies

[shraeye]

I like best that Galz-"did-not-check-with-mod"-ria, who is normally a VERY analytical player who does amazingly deep re-reads of the thread didn't notice that the Final Vote count was last corrected 30 minutes after DatSwan pointed out that I was on two people, didn't bother to check that things were updated 2 days before his policy vote, and didn't reread or examine anything before he dove into the deep end on "shraeye hasn't confirmed anything so is scum".

If Galz cared about scumhunting in this scenario, he would realize that
A) pointing out a double-voter isn't necessary
B) things had been clearly edited to show I wasn't
C) not responding to his question (or DatSwan's observation) was unconventional and thus easy to paint as scummy, but also something that scum would NEVER DO because of the attention it would bring

so, for emphasis,
vote: Galz

You don’t think this is too weak of a case for scum!Galzria to push? The vote count is pretty obviously a mod mistake imo and I would think Galzria would see that if he wasn’t town.

I think he didn't look past DatSwans question about my vote, didn't see that fausts had fixed it, simply saw that nobody brought it up again.  I would expect town Galz to double check

[Archetype]

Well that was...very anti town of pops

[Archetype]

Arche - Do you know if you will flip faction roles zombie/human or what of those that you would flip? Like do you know what info we would learn about Shraeye?

You’ll be able to see my role when I flip, the alignment I show as will be determined by what shraeye’s is.

[popsofctown]

No it is very protown you will see

[shraeye]

You can all stop playing faerie chess and vote for mafia instead of figuring out who is death miller linked by a magic cord to which player's zombie potion to trigger the magic doublevote.  Kill the bad guys.

Look at the people who post with the evil in their hearts and vote them.

Yes yes yes yes.  Please don't be scum, because you're the main voice of reason here so far.

[shraeye]

Well that was...very anti town of pops

Why is vigging antitown?  Is lynching antitown too?

[faust]

Vote Count 2.3

shraeye (3): jotheonah, Awaclus, Glooble
Galzria (2): shraeye, popsofctown
Archetype (2): EFHW, WestCoastDidds
jotheonah (1): Archetype

Not Voting (3): SpaceAnemone, DatSwan, Galzria

With 11 alive, it takes 6 to lynch. Day 2 ends on January 08, 2020, 07:00:00 am.

That is in 6 hours.

[Galzria]

vote: Shraeye

[popsofctown]

Scum scumposting
vote Galzria

[Galzria]

Well that was...very anti town of pops

Why is vigging antitown?  Is lynching antitown too?

Not when it’s lynching you.

[shraeye]

vote: Shraeye

Literally laughing out loud at this.


But for real, WCD jumping to archetype at efhw's plans is what we should all write down in our notes.  If she doesn't post by 6am, put two stars next to that too.

[Galzria]

vote: Shraeye

Literally laughing out loud at this.


But for real, WCD jumping to archetype at efhw's plans is what we should all write down in our notes.  If she doesn't post by 6am, put two stars next to that too.

WCD is the towniest player thusfar.

[Archetype]

Well that was...very anti town of pops

Why is vigging antitown?  Is lynching antitown too?

No

vote: Shraeye

Literally laughing out loud at this.


But for real, WCD jumping to archetype at efhw's plans is what we should all write down in our notes.  If she doesn't post by 6am, put two stars next to that too.

WCD is the towniest player thusfar.

Her vote switch was hella opportunistic

[shraeye]

To clarify, I'm throwing shade at WCD specifically for that vote-switch (EFHW is not necessarily part of that)

[popsofctown]

I don't like WCD's vote switch either

[Galzria]

Well that was...very anti town of pops

Why is vigging antitown?  Is lynching antitown too?

No

vote: Shraeye

Literally laughing out loud at this.


But for real, WCD jumping to archetype at efhw's plans is what we should all write down in our notes.  If she doesn't post by 6am, put two stars next to that too.

WCD is the towniest player thusfar.

Her vote switch was hella opportunistic

Not really. She wanted to make sure a lunch would happen and was posting her vote before going to bed. If you were closer to being lynched or there was more time in the day, sure, maybe. Here it’s NAI at best.

[popsofctown]

They seemed to have similar likelihood from where I'm sitting but the Archetype faerie chess was better optics and reality tv

I think her childlike excitement was fake, if she was really afraid of no lynch she would be worried that after she went to sleep no third, fourth, or fifth person thought it was cool

[popsofctown]

they are making a new dominion but it doesn't have zombies

[Galzria]

The only argument for it being opportunistic is if the player she had been on before was her partner. Pretty sure that player was Shraeye, the leading wagon at the time. So for that move to be opportunistic it would’ve needed to be done to protect her scum partner Shraeye. If Shraeye is Town... and Archetype is Town... then it’s not opportunistic - it’s moot.

[popsofctown]

whichever one she was voting was the leading wagon and the shraeye vote was stale, efhw offered something fresh and spicy

 to be fair I am still worried it is efhw that is the plotter here

[Swowl]

Shoot Archetype You can all stop playing faerie chess and vote for mafia instead of figuring out who is death miller linked by a magic cord to which player's zombie potion to trigger the magic doublevote.  Kill the bad guys.

Look at the people who post with the evil in their hearts and vote them.

Finishing up and refreshed and saw this.

Is this real? do we get a deadline extension if it is?

[Galzria]

Shoot Archetype You can all stop playing faerie chess and vote for mafia instead of figuring out who is death miller linked by a magic cord to which player's zombie potion to trigger the magic doublevote.  Kill the bad guys.

Look at the people who post with the evil in their hearts and vote them.

Finishing up and refreshed and saw this.

Is this real? do we get a deadline extension if it is?

It appears not & no: There’s been a VC since with the vote in the same post counted.

[EFHW]

unvote

[EFHW]

I went back to double check Shraeye's description of the timeline re the double vote, and it was indeed corrected just 30 min after it was pointed out. Galzria's defense made it sound like it was changed days later. vote: Galzria.

[Awaclus]

If Archetype has been dayvigged, why is he still alive?

[EFHW]

If Archetype has been dayvigged, why is he still alive?

It was a fake dayvig.

[faust]

Vote Count 2.4

shraeye (4): jotheonah, Awaclus, Glooble, Galzria
Galzria (3): shraeye, popsofctown, EFHW
Archetype (1): WestCoastDidds
jotheonah (1): Archetype

Not Voting (2): SpaceAnemone, DatSwan

With 11 alive, it takes 6 to lynch. Day 2 ends on January 08, 2020, 07:00:00 am.

That is in 2 hours and 11 minutes.

[Swowl]

Vote: Archetype

I don’t like the plan. Shraeye flips skum we know nothing about Arche. If anything we should lynch Arche over Shraeye to learn what Shraeye is. The other way around seems just wrong as we have no way of knowing if they are telling the truth but they said Miller would flip in their role.

[Swowl]

That was not all supposed to be bold sorry.

[Swowl]

Would switch to Galz i guess if i super had too but i like do not at all see a world where lynching Shraeye is a strong choice today.

[Glooble]

If we lynch Arch and he flips scum how do we know he wasn’t just scum telling a weird lie to get town!shraeye lynched?

Face it, neither of them tell us anything about the other.

[Glooble]

I would switch to Galz to get a lynch.

[Glooble]

Wait I guess Arche does IC shraeye if he flips town.

I’d switch there as well.

[Swowl]

If we lynch Arch and he flips scum how do we know he wasn’t just scum telling a weird lie to get town!shraeye lynched?

Face it, neither of them tell us anything about the other.

Bc he said his role would flip miller and we already had a Miller flip that flipped miller. I am assuming if he doesn’t flip miller, and is skum, he is lying and Shraeye is town. If he flips miller then Shraeye is that.

[Glooble]

Is anyone else online?

[SpaceAnemone]

Vote: Shraeye for now. I could be persuaded to go along the Arch or Galz paths, but I feel more scumvibes from some of the people on Galz right now. I also think lazy disengaged Galz is maybe something we see from town!Galz in early game days, so I'm not convinced by the lazy=scummy argument going around.

[SpaceAnemone]

Is anyone else online?

Yes! Though I'm at work and it's 11am here. Funny to think that for some of you 0600 means leaving for work, since I'm a night owl who's only been at my desk for just over an hour at this point :-P

[SpaceAnemone]

That was L-1 from me I think.

[SpaceAnemone]

Space Count

Galzria (3): Shraeye, popsofctown, EFHW
Shraeye (5): jotheonah, Awaclus, Glooble, Galzria, SpaceAnemone
jotheonah (1): Archetype
Archetype (2): WestCoastDidds, DatSwan

[WestCoastDidds]

Alright, good morning...

Lemme catch up

[WestCoastDidds]

Is anyone around? Is Shraeye the only possibility for a lynch?

[SpaceAnemone]

Is anyone around? Is Shraeye the only possibility for a lynch?

I'm here. If Gloobe's still around, we might have the voting power to move to Galz.

[WestCoastDidds]

They seemed to have similar likelihood from where I'm sitting but the Archetype faerie chess was better optics and reality tv

I think her childlike excitement was fake, if she was really afraid of no lynch she would be worried that after she went to sleep no third, fourth, or fifth person thought it was cool

I’ll take child like over or oldster any day of the week, but for realz, lol. Excitement is me, fake not so much.

I was intrigued by something, anything getting the game going. We have been playing this lazy game that only benefits scum. I also went to bed earlier than. I thought I would, but am up when I would have expected.

[WestCoastDidds]

Galz is not my preference. I’ll hammer Shraeye if we need a lynch.

[WestCoastDidds]

Okay, caught up.... the folks on the Galz wagon do not inspire confidence. So, intent to hammer Shraeye in 10 minutes

[WestCoastDidds]

Vote: Shraeye

Sorry, dude. I hope you’re scum.

Also, if we aren’t playing again soon....happy first day of school!

[SpaceAnemone]

Worth noting for later that Glooble is showing up as being present and reading the thread. Guess he was committed to the Shraeye lynch though.

[Glooble]

I already made willingness to switch to Galz known. No lynch was happening other than those two. Once WCD said she preferred shraeye I didn’t see what there was to be gained by me chiming one again.

Plus I’m on my way out the door.

[WestCoastDidds]

I already made willingness to switch to Galz known. No lynch was happening other than those two. Once WCD said she preferred shraeye I didn’t see what there was to be gained by me chiming one again.

Plus I’m on my way out the door.

Hi ho, hi ho.....

[faust]

Day 2 Final Vote Count

shraeye (6): jotheonah, Awaclus, Glooble, Galzria, SpaceAnemone, WestCoastDidds
Galzria (3): shraeye, popsofctown, EFHW
Archetype (1): DatSwan
jotheonah (1): Archetype

Not Voting (0)

With 11 alive, it took 6 to lynch.

[faust]

For the first time, Ravi was sitting on the wrong side of the table. The string of deaths had brought morale in the whole police department to a low.

"Isn't it true", asked Detective Kavanaugh, "that you and Miss Charles had recently broken up? Isn't it true that your only alibi for the night of the murder is your flatmate, who has gone missing? And how do you explain that we found your lab equipment at the place of the crime?"

"Oh, but killing my ex? That really isn't my style. I'm more of a poop in front of your door kind of guy."

"Ravi Chakrabarti, you have the right to remain silent..."

shraeye has been lynched! They were Ravi Chakrabarti, the Town-aligned Semi-Hidden Jack of all Trades Triggered Zombie Curer, and they were a zombie.

Night 2 begins now and lasts until January 10, 2020, 07:30:00 am. Night actions due within 36 hours.

THREAD LOCKED!

[faust]

What was once a flat shared by two best friends is now a complete bloodbath. Peyton's body on the floor, and hunched over it, the red-eyed, skull-cracking shell of what once was Olivia Moore, now reduced to another mindless Romero.

Glooble has gone Romero. They were Olivia Moore, the Town-aligned Zombiefying Doctor 2-shot Inventor Neighbor, and they were a zombie.

A Drowned Kernel's brain was eaten. LaLight's brain was eaten.

The threshold for successfully eating a brain is now 1 (previously 0).

Day 3 begins!

Vote Count 3.0

Not Voting (9): SpaceAnemone, WestCoastDidds, DatSwan, jotheonah, EFHW, Awaclus, Archetype, popsofctown, Galzria

With 9 alive, it takes 5 to lynch. Day 3 ends on January 17, 2020, 11:00:00 am.

[WestCoastDidds]

Ugh...so being a zombie is definitely bad for town. No NK is interesting, though

[popsofctown]

Vote: jotheonah
You betrayed us all

[jotheonah]

Vote: jotheonah
You betrayed us all

I cured Glooble, or at least I tried to. I guess I was roleblocked or he was jailkept or something.

[popsofctown]

Jailkeep wouldn't matter, that would prevent Glooble from acting, and protect him from nightkills, but not protect him from effects like cop investigation, zombie cure, fruit vendor, etc

[EFHW]

Joth doesn't look good here. Has anyone else received a zombie cure? It does look like maybe Glooble had some curing power. But it would have to be that he could only send it out, not use it on himself, or he wouldn't have gone romero.

[Galzria]

Why does scum!Joth claim to have the ability to cure if he had no intention (or capability) of doing so? That's genuinely illogical.

 

[popsofctown]

Joth is probably a zombie.  When shraeye died, we were surprised to find he was a zombie, so only 2 brains to go around.  Joth got scared and drank the potion to make sure he didn't die.

I was really townreading Glooble but if joth wasn't he could make a case for that behavior. 
While it make sense for doctor to not be ablle to self target a flavor like "elixir" it wouldn't make sense for joth to not be allowed to drink it.

[EFHW]

If he used it on himself, town!joth would/should just say so. Never lie as town!

[EFHW]

Why does scum!Joth claim to have the ability to cure if he had no intention (or capability) of doing so? That's genuinely illogical.

I see your point. But "I guess I was roleblocked" is so easy. Maybe he had a reason that dying that day would have been extra bad.

[WestCoastDidds]

It’s my birthday weekend.

I’m out drinking with Debatepro. (Galz, it was a Norma Jean...so good. How do you feel about Cynar?)

He’s debating politics with a redneck. I may not survive.

[popsofctown]

If he used it on himself, town!joth would/should just say so. Never lie as town!

I missed 564 I think
This is still a scenario for scum!joth who at first feels comfortable enough about his hunger needs and gets more nervous about it


I have seen people lie have town
I have seen things
Things that cannot be unseen
So many things.

[Awaclus]

He’s debating politics with a redneck.

It's a good thing he's a pro.

[SpaceAnemone]

Sorry for going quiet! I've been quite under the weather for the past few days. Feeling better now, but about to go and meet up with Maxford for board games so I don't just spend the whole weekend not speaking to anyone IRL. Back later!

Happy Birthday Weekend, WCD!! :-)

[EFHW]

Vote: Space. Primarily for Shraeye lynch, but also for disappearing acts.

[EFHW]

Crickets...

[WestCoastDidds]

It seems super weird for it to be this dead, even for a weekend.

Vote: DatSwan

[jotheonah]

I’m gonna be super V/LA this week.

[SpaceAnemone]

Vote: Space. Primarily for Shraeye lynch, but also for disappearing acts.

I'm sorry we lynched a townie, but who else would you have had me vote for at that particular juncture? If you feel strongly that I ought to have picked Galz over Shraeye, why not just vote for Galz directly?

[Swowl]

Checking in.
I had a work event i had to plan with Galz that went down yesterday.

I just read the like 7 posts from today. Catching up more in a bit.

beers with Galz raptor and Joth rn. So gimme til tomorrow.

[EFHW]

Vote: Space. Primarily for Shraeye lynch, but also for disappearing acts.

I'm sorry we lynched a townie, but who else would you have had me vote for at that particular juncture? If you feel strongly that I ought to have picked Galz over Shraeye, why not just vote for Galz directly?

Voting Galz is still on the table, but with the game so stalled, the low participators currently have my attention.

[EFHW]

Vote: Space. Primarily for Shraeye lynch, but also for disappearing acts.

I'm sorry we lynched a townie, but who else would you have had me vote for at that particular juncture? If you feel strongly that I ought to have picked Galz over Shraeye, why not just vote for Galz directly?

Also, your vote tipped the balance decisively towards Shraeye at just the right moment.

[Galzria]

Vote: Space. Primarily for Shraeye lynch, but also for disappearing acts.

I'm sorry we lynched a townie, but who else would you have had me vote for at that particular juncture? If you feel strongly that I ought to have picked Galz over Shraeye, why not just vote for Galz directly?

Voting Galz is still on the table, but with the game so stalled, the low participators currently have my attention.

Everybody’s in the “low participators” category right now. For myself, sorry! See:

Checking in.
I had a work event i had to plan with Galz that went down yesterday.

I just read the like 7 posts from today. Catching up more in a bit.

beers with Galz raptor and Joth rn. So gimme til tomorrow.

[jotheonah]

Arbitrarily not voting for my new drinking buddies today.

But srsly I need to give yesterday a look over and see if I can find anything fishy. Maybe I’ll have time before deadline.

[popsofctown]

pretty dead game

[WestCoastDidds]

Geez, folks, this is ridiculous! Where is everyone??

[WestCoastDidds]

Vote: Space

[EFHW]

Geez, folks, this is ridiculous! Where is everyone??

Seriously. Maybe they were eaten by zombies?

[WestCoastDidds]

We are almost halfway through the day...and nothing.

[SpaceAnemone]

Vote: Space. Primarily for Shraeye lynch, but also for disappearing acts.

I'm sorry we lynched a townie, but who else would you have had me vote for at that particular juncture? If you feel strongly that I ought to have picked Galz over Shraeye, why not just vote for Galz directly?

Also, your vote tipped the balance decisively towards Shraeye at just the right moment.

So I ask again, at that particular moment, where would you have had me put my vote, instead of on Shraeye? I know Shraeye himself is a supporter of using no-lynches more often, but I'm really not sure I agree with him. I think my not voting for him would have left us at a no-lynch, given how early in the day it was for most players, and how the votes were distributed.

[EFHW]

Vote: Space. Primarily for Shraeye lynch, but also for disappearing acts.

I'm sorry we lynched a townie, but who else would you have had me vote for at that particular juncture? If you feel strongly that I ought to have picked Galz over Shraeye, why not just vote for Galz directly?

Also, your vote tipped the balance decisively towards Shraeye at just the right moment.

So I ask again, at that particular moment, where would you have had me put my vote, instead of on Shraeye? I know Shraeye himself is a supporter of using no-lynches more often, but I'm really not sure I agree with him. I think my not voting for him would have left us at a no-lynch, given how early in the day it was for most players, and how the votes were distributed.

Ok, you're right, Didds was more the swing factor there. She's been participating, so now it makes more sense to vote for Galzria than to vote for his defenders. vote: Galzria.

[Awaclus]

Vote: Galzria

[Archetype]

Vote: joth

Glooble flipping zombie only amplifies my scumreading on this guy

[WestCoastDidds]

Vote: Galz

[popsofctown]

Vote:Galz

[SpaceAnemone]

Space Count

Galzria (4): EFHW, Awaclus, WestCoastDidds, popsofctown
jotheonah (1): Archetype
Not Voting (4): SpaceAnemone, DatSwan, jotheonah, Galzria

... so that's Galz at an unannounced L-1.

[SpaceAnemone]

I get Awaclus's typical vote-with-no-given-reason logic. Why is WCD sheeping like that though?

Vote: WCD

Also not sure I have a handle on Pops yet at all. I think the unannounced L-1 is mildly scummy in normal contexts, but this game is odd, so I could buy that it's a test to see who's actually paying any attention at all.

[WestCoastDidds]

Ack! Didn't realize... back to vote: Space

I just want dude to show up and play

[WestCoastDidds]

I get Awaclus's typical vote-with-no-given-reason logic. Why is WCD sheeping like that though?

I am just trying to make something, anything happen

[WestCoastDidds]

On Day 1, I was in a neighborhood with Galz. He said that if I cast a vote for him, that it wouldn't count. So, like a specific loved thing.  I have no idea if it is true, but it will may be that someone else loves him today and his lynch is further out. 

[EFHW]

Lots of neighbors in this game:

MiX has been killed! They were Angus McDonough, the Town-aligned Human Targeted Backup Zombie Semi-Random Vigilante-Neighborizer, and they were human.

A Drowned Kernel has been killed. They were Peyton Charles, the Town-aligned Human Strong-Willed Zombie Collector Even-Night Jailkeeper (Loyal Self-Vanillaising) Double Hated-iser Neighbor, and they were human.

Day 2 begins!

[popsofctown]

I didn't realize it was L-1.
I think WCD's information is potentially incriminating for Galz, though, usually not all the neighbors are town.  So I'll hold here at L-2.

I wasn't really scumreading Galzria's play in the past, but the wagonomics is starting to point to him.
Joth could have been roleblocked, or maybe not, I think it puts him scummier than rand, but.. it's too easy?

I don't know I agree this is a weird game.

I'm modding a game on mafiascum that has one slot left and an annoying user is eyeing it, so if someone came and joined it I'd really appreciate it

[WestCoastDidds]

Lots of neighbors in this game:

Yeah, I wondered if that was why the thread was so quiet, but it wouldn't account for so much awayness from so many.

[popsofctown]

nvm it filled

Does anyone want to claim scum?

[WestCoastDidds]

nvm it filled

Does anyone want to claim scum?

Was it the annoying user??

[Archetype]

On Day 1, I was in a neighborhood with Galz. He said that if I cast a vote for him, that it wouldn't count. So, like a specific loved thing.  I have no idea if it is true, but it will may be that someone else loves him today and his lynch is further out. 

That’s a decently powerful role if he is scum

Agree that it’s likely not all neighbor-type roles are town. Anyone looking to claim ADK’s neighbor?

[popsofctown]

It was not!

[Galzria]

To be clear, this is what was claimed:

I got to target someone N0 to become a customer. I targeted Didds. Day 1 I was granted a QT with Didds, who claimed that one would open between her and anybody who targets her. She claimed to be as surprised by the opening of the QT as I was. My role isn’t specific to Didds. I get to target for acquisition each night a player of my choice to become a customer. If at any point during the day one of my customers is voting for me then I’m Loved and take an additional vote (this does not stack, and remains at +1 at maximum).

[Galzria]

If anybody has targeted Didds but NOT received a QT with her it would make her statement to me in the QT untrue.

The QT closed at the end of D1.

[Galzria]

Space Count

Galzria (4): EFHW, Awaclus, WestCoastDidds, popsofctown
jotheonah (1): Archetype
Not Voting (4): SpaceAnemone, DatSwan, jotheonah, Galzria

... so that's Galz at an unannounced L-1.

So, note, due to my PR with Didds vote I was L-2, not L-1.

[EFHW]

Space Count

Galzria (4): EFHW, Awaclus, WestCoastDidds, popsofctown
jotheonah (1): Archetype
Not Voting (4): SpaceAnemone, DatSwan, jotheonah, Galzria

... so that's Galz at an unannounced L-1.

So, note, due to my PR with Didds vote I was L-2, not L-1.

Can we know who the other customer is?

[EFHW]

If anybody has targeted Didds but NOT received a QT with her it would make her statement to me in the QT untrue.

The QT closed at the end of D1.

Didds seemed to think that she wouldn't affect your loved status after Day 1

[EFHW]

It started N0, I see. So you have 3 customers now?

[Swowl]

If anybody has targeted Didds but NOT received a QT with her it would make her statement to me in the QT untrue.

The QT closed at the end of D1.

I can back this up. I targeted WCD last night and now have a thread with her open

[Galzria]

It started N0, I see. So you have 3 customers now?

I have had 3 opportunities to acquire customers.

[Archetype]

If anybody has targeted Didds but NOT received a QT with her it would make her statement to me in the QT untrue.

The QT closed at the end of D1.

I can back this up. I targeted WCD last night and now have a thread with her open

Was WCD surprised about this QT opening? Or did she tell you she caused it or anything?

[Galzria]

If anybody has targeted Didds but NOT received a QT with her it would make her statement to me in the QT untrue.

The QT closed at the end of D1.

I can back this up. I targeted WCD last night and now have a thread with her open

Was WCD surprised about this QT opening? Or did she tell you she caused it or anything?

I think in my case she was surprised because she wasn’t expecting to be targeted N0.

[WestCoastDidds]

Yep, Galz is right. I was surprised to have a QT on Day 1. I didn’t know someone could be targeted N0. I thought my nullified Galz vote would just be on D1, but I don’t actually know. I didn’t let my vote last on him long enough to see if it would be counted because I didn’t want to risk a quick hammer after the L-1 vote,

I can verify that I have  a QT with Swan now.

I did not have a QT on D2. I can’t target people, but can talk with those who target me.

[Swowl]

k here is some stuff...

First off - Everyone voting Galz is a little silly yes? Galz is skum that got an ability to target night zero (so presumably not a kill). And now it is verfied by WCD that Galz targeted him. Which is verfied by me having a thread open with WCD.

What is the narrative there?
1) Galz is skum that had an ability N0 (unusual)
2) WCD confirms everything Galz says (ok fine, they could be pulling a gambit, except I can verify WCD's ability... so that doesn't make sense).
3) Galz Day 1 votes were only for town players, ok yeah, but Day 1 was a mess. And that happens on Day 1.
4) Galz then, today, decides to essentially lose his ability to vote for his best counter option (Joth) by defending him. So what, it is exactly Galz/Joth/potentially whoever(s)? I just don't see it.


That makes me think the people on Galz are coming off as skummy.

[Swowl]

That would be [EFHW, Awaclus, WestCoastDidds, popsofctown]

EFHW - Day 1 aside, I like to do isolations on VCA. Day 2 There were 5 players off wagon = [Shraeye, Pops, EFHW, Swan, Arche]. From my pov, that makes me want to look at this group, and then isolates it to [Pops, EFHW, Arche]. So yeah, EFHW is on the list.

Awaclus - On two town wagons. Like Most of us. Nothing to really go on outside of that. Don't see any value in lynching today unless we just get luck.

WCD - Fenced. They could just have the ability they have and be skum, but their overall actions make me lean town!WCD.

Pops - I am just not down with this currently. I have already stated logic on day 1, but essentially I just do not see skum making that day 1 vig play.


So from that list I guess I like EFHW.

VCA aside, I like Arche. Joth is next. I really do not want to lynch outside of that today.

EFHW

[faust]

Vote Count 3.1

jotheonah (2): popsofctown, Archetype
SpaceAnemone (1): WestCoastDidds
Galzria (3): EFHW, Awaclus, popsofctown
WestCoastDidds (1): SpaceAnemone

Not Voting (3): DatSwan, jotheonah, Galzria

With 9 alive, it takes 5 to lynch. Day 3 ends on January 17, 2020, 11:00:00 am.

[EFHW]

I should be on Galzria.

[EFHW]

I'll respond to DatSwan at a more reasonable hour.

[faust]

I should be on Galzria.

Fixed.

[WestCoastDidds]

k here is some stuff...

First off - Everyone voting Galz is a little silly yes? Galz is skum that got an ability to target night zero (so presumably not a kill). And now it is verfied by WCD that Galz targeted her. Which is verfied by me having a thread open with WCD.

What is the narrative there?
1) Galz is skum that had an ability N0 (unusual)
2) WCD confirms everything Galz says (ok fine, they could be pulling a gambit, except I can verify WCD's ability... so that doesn't make sense).
3) Galz Day 1 votes were only for town players, ok yeah, but Day 1 was a mess. And that happens on Day 1.
4) Galz then, today, decides to essentially lose his ability to vote for his best counter option (Joth) by defending him. So what, it is exactly Galz/Joth/potentially whoever(s)? I just don't see it.


That makes me think the people on Galz are coming off as skummy.

Alright, this makes sense to me. While the vote nullifying seems scummy, the N0 part is less so. I also don’t think Swan would stick his neck this far out on Galz if they are buddies. So, Galzy, if I’m trusting you I need you to swoop in and start solving this game for us.

I’m leaving my vote on Spacey for the time being. This game is weird, but they are playing far differently than usual. Where is the analytical, data based Space we all know and love?

[Archetype]

That would be [EFHW, Awaclus, WestCoastDidds, popsofctown]

EFHW - Day 1 aside, I like to do isolations on VCA. Day 2 There were 5 players off wagon = [Shraeye, Pops, EFHW, Swan, Arche]. From my pov, that makes me want to look at this group, and then isolates it to [Pops, EFHW, Arche]. So yeah, EFHW is on the list.

Awaclus - On two town wagons. Like Most of us. Nothing to really go on outside of that. Don't see any value in lynching today unless we just get luck.

WCD - Fenced. They could just have the ability they have and be skum, but their overall actions make me lean town!WCD.

Pops - I am just not down with this currently. I have already stated logic on day 1, but essentially I just do not see skum making that day 1 vig play.


So from that list I guess I like EFHW.

VCA aside, I like Arche. Joth is next. I really do not want to lynch outside of that today.

EFHW

Why myself over joth?

[SpaceAnemone]

I’m leaving my vote on Spacey for the time being. This game is weird, but they are playing far differently than usual. Where is the analytical, data based Space we all know and love?

I was unwell, but also I'm just finding this game really hard to get into.

I think I already mentioned looking at the D1 Galz wagon in my wagon analysis, but it's still really the only data-based argument I have. I guess it's a bit strong D3 than it was D2, but basially, lots of green-coloured people (by which I mean myself, and also LL, Glooble, ADK and Shraeye) voted Galz over D1. At the same time, the only as-yet-uncoloured players to vote Galz are Arch (consistently, including in various four-votes-on-Galz configurations), and then also Swan a little bit early on. That makes it prety likely that one of those three is scum. More likely that it's one of Arch or Galz.

Swan's defence of Galz is mostly that he had a N0 targeting ability, which isn't in itself impossible for scum, especially in such a highly customised setup as faust has made for us here, so I don't think that's a strong reason to assume he's town, unfortunately. The other bit of the defence that feels like it should hold merit seems to be that Galz defended a rival wagon, but all I can see is Galz's post at #567, at which point Galz didn't have a wagon at all, so giving him bonus points for that seems rather iffy. @Swan, did I miss something else from a previous game day that you were referring to what?

[Swowl]

Space - not missing anything from other games. While h
Galz wagon was small i would of expected skum to take an easy avenue to push a lynch is all i was saying (wagon size aside)

[Swowl]

That would be [EFHW, Awaclus, WestCoastDidds, popsofctown]

EFHW - Day 1 aside, I like to do isolations on VCA. Day 2 There were 5 players off wagon = [Shraeye, Pops, EFHW, Swan, Arche]. From my pov, that makes me want to look at this group, and then isolates it to [Pops, EFHW, Arche]. So yeah, EFHW is on the list.

Awaclus - On two town wagons. Like Most of us. Nothing to really go on outside of that. Don't see any value in lynching today unless we just get luck.

WCD - Fenced. They could just have the ability they have and be skum, but their overall actions make me lean town!WCD.

Pops - I am just not down with this currently. I have already stated logic on day 1, but essentially I just do not see skum making that day 1 vig play.


So from that list I guess I like EFHW.

VCA aside, I like Arche. Joth is next. I really do not want to lynch outside of that today.

EFHW

Why myself over joth?

It is a super small margin, but that reason I’m gonna hold onto for a little bit. Nothing like “result” or anything.

[Archetype]

I’m leaving my vote on Spacey for the time being. This game is weird, but they are playing far differently than usual. Where is the analytical, data based Space we all know and love?

I was unwell, but also I'm just finding this game really hard to get into.

I think I already mentioned looking at the D1 Galz wagon in my wagon analysis, but it's still really the only data-based argument I have. I guess it's a bit strong D3 than it was D2, but basially, lots of green-coloured people (by which I mean myself, and also LL, Glooble, ADK and Shraeye) voted Galz over D1. At the same time, the only as-yet-uncoloured players to vote Galz are Arch (consistently, including in various four-votes-on-Galz configurations), and then also Swan a little bit early on. That makes it prety likely that one of those three is scum. More likely that it's one of Arch or Galz.

This is misleading. I only ever placed one vote ever on Galz and that was during RVS.

[EFHW]

I have a number of objections to Swan's reasoning here and I think I'll go through in order of his points and put my responses in the midst of his comments. I just have time to do part of it now.

First off - Everyone voting Galz is a little silly yes? Galz is skum that got an ability to target night zero (so presumably not a kill). And now it is verfied by WCD that Galz targeted him. Which is verfied by me having a thread open with WCD.

The silly comment seems premature, since the new information about Didds had only just come out. But that information doesn't really indicate that either of them are town, anyway, just that the confirmable parts of their stories have been confirmed.

@Galz - are your customers informed of their new status?

I don't see either of their claimed roles as obv!town. I think Didd's role would be great to give to scum. It gives her both opportunities and risks. It's perfect. Galz's role seems OP as either alignment. He suggested that it isn't a given that his targets become customers, but even so it's powerful. So there is very likely more to it and it can go either way in my opinion.

What is the narrative there?
1) Galz is skum that had an ability N0 (unusual)
2) WCD confirms everything Galz says (ok fine, they could be pulling a gambit, except I can verify WCD's ability... so that doesn't make sense).
3) Galz Day 1 votes were only for town players, ok yeah, but Day 1 was a mess. And that happens on Day 1.
4) Galz then, today, decides to essentially lose his ability to vote for his best counter option (Joth) by defending him. So what, it is exactly Galz/Joth/potentially whoever(s)? I just don't see it.

That makes me think the people on Galz are coming off as skummy.

That would be [EFHW, Awaclus, WestCoastDidds, popsofctown]

EFHW - Day 1 aside, I like to do isolations on VCA. Day 2 There were 5 players off wagon = [Shraeye, Pops, EFHW, Swan, Arche]. From my pov, that makes me want to look at this group, and then isolates it to [Pops, EFHW, Arche]. So yeah, EFHW is on the list.

Awaclus - On two town wagons. Like Most of us. Nothing to really go on outside of that. Don't see any value in lynching today unless we just get luck.

WCD - Fenced. They could just have the ability they have and be skum, but their overall actions make me lean town!WCD.

Pops - I am just not down with this currently. I have already stated logic on day 1, but essentially I just do not see skum making that day 1 vig play.

So from that list I guess I like EFHW.

VCA aside, I like Arche. Joth is next. I really do not want to lynch outside of that today.

EFHW

Quoting for ease of reference.

[EFHW]

Sorry, hit post. I'll respond to the rest later. Have to go to a meeting now.

[Galzria]

@ EFHW:

I have no control over the message, but yes, something informs my customers.

[popsofctown]

I agree swan is dumb Galz should die

[Swowl]

I agree swan is dumb Galz should die

dumb as I may be... why are you on *not* Galz then?

[WestCoastDidds]

I think he is...or at least was at the last VC

[WestCoastDidds]

@ EFHW:

I have no control over the message, but yes, something informs my customers.

I wasn’t informed of anything, except that the QT had opened. The next night I got a vague message about the memory of having been sold something.

[WestCoastDidds]

So, the deadline is less than 24 hours away. 

vote: Joth

[faust]

Vote Count 3.2

jotheonah (2): Archetype, WestCoastDidds
Galzria (3): EFHW, Awaclus, popsofctown
WestCoastDidds (1): SpaceAnemone

Not Voting (3): DatSwan, jotheonah, Galzria

With 9 alive, it takes 5 to lynch. Day 3 ends on January 17, 2020, 11:00:00 am.

That is in 20.5 hours.

[popsofctown]

I was going to reply, I have but one vote to give... but faust has me voting both joth and Galz.

Uh, in theory he should correct that, in practice if he leaves it that way I'd be happy with it because I don't want a no-lynch

[faust]

2.71828..... replaces jotheonah!

Deadline is extended by 24 hours.

[WestCoastDidds]

e!!! Welcome! I hope daddydom is treating you well.

Please, please help us get this game going.

[2.71828.....]

Hi everyone! I have not been following this game really at all except to see flips at the end of days. I will go ahead and read and give some fresh takes when I get the chance. Should be done by the time the old deadline comes around.

[EFHW]

Just realized I didn't post this.

Continuing my commentary:

First off - Everyone voting Galz is a little silly yes? Galz is skum that got an ability to target night zero (so presumably not a kill). And now it is verfied by WCD that Galz targeted him. Which is verfied by me having a thread open with WCD.

What is the narrative there?
1) Galz is skum that had an ability N0 (unusual)
2) WCD confirms everything Galz says (ok fine, they could be pulling a gambit, except I can verify WCD's ability... so that doesn't make sense).
3) Galz Day 1 votes were only for town players, ok yeah, but Day 1 was a mess. And that happens on Day 1.
4) Galz then, today, decides to essentially lose his ability to vote for his best counter option (Joth) by defending him. So what, it is exactly Galz/Joth/potentially whoever(s)? I just don't see it.

That makes me think the people on Galz are coming off as skummy.

1. An N0 scum power is unusual, as Swan says, but having an N0 power is not exculpatory. And we don't have confirmation after all of what Galz's power does, just what he told Didds. It might be easy to test it, though. I don't know if he said if it invalidates the vote when placed or just adds one to the lynch threshold.

2. and 3. These feel like straw horses.

4. I was also surprised to see Galz defend joth, but I have no idea what it means. I don't think it makes it impossible for him to vote joth later if he has a reason.

That would be [EFHW, Awaclus, WestCoastDidds, popsofctown]

EFHW - Day 1 aside, I like to do isolations on VCA. Day 2 There were 5 players off wagon = [Shraeye, Pops, EFHW, Swan, Arche]. From my pov, that makes me want to look at this group, and then isolates it to [Pops, EFHW, Arche]. So yeah, EFHW is on the list.

Awaclus - On two town wagons. Like Most of us. Nothing to really go on outside of that. Don't see any value in lynching today unless we just get luck.

WCD - Fenced. They could just have the ability they have and be skum, but their overall actions make me lean town!WCD.

Pops - I am just not down with this currently. I have already stated logic on day 1, but essentially I just do not see skum making that day 1 vig play.

So from that list I guess I like EFHW.

VCA aside, I like Arche. Joth is next. I really do not want to lynch outside of that today.

EFHW

Here I'll just point out that my being off-wagon should not be incriminating. It emerged before I voted that Galz had mistakenly accused Shraeye. I was really surprised to find out Shraeye was the lynch and I'm suspicious of everyone on wagon. I guess you're doing the "scum must not all be on wagon" thing, but I had *reasons* and that logic is going to seriously let us down eventually.

PPE: Hi e! And deadline extension is also handy.

[2.71828.....]

Ok, read the game. I can post more comprehensive thoughts later, but towniest people are Pops and WCD.

Pops because they post most naturally and with what seems to me as a devil-may-care attitude that I don't see that much with scum. Pops is playing the game their style and trying to find scum. It will rub some people the wrong way and attract attention, but town.

Crying baby break

[2.71828.....]

Ok, mom has baby now.

Anyway, WCD is just gave townie vibes in all her posts.

That is my PoE for now, I will come back in a bit and try to figure out who I think is the best lynch today

[popsofctown]

WCD is my top townread too.  Unfortunately we need to lynch scum and finding the scum is kind of a crapshoot.  There's even Awaclus who has done nothing but naked vote, how do you read that?

[2.71828.....]

WCD is my top townread too.  Unfortunately we need to lynch scum and finding the scum is kind of a crapshoot.  There's even Awaclus who has done nothing but naked vote, how do you read that?

That's just what awaclus does. When I read him sub in and then immediately post about people not sharing reads I laughed because it is quintessential Awaclus.

So he is really a coin flip for me, I have no problem lynching him

[2.71828.....]

Can someone compile all the claims that have happened? I was going to and then got busy. If not I will get to it eventually

[Awaclus]

I have no problem lynching him

I do.

[Awaclus]

Well, honestly I'm probably not the worst lynch. I would normally be more active but this game has just been a little difficult to get into, from a sub's point of view.

[SpaceAnemone]

I missed checking in yesterday because Thursdays are always super-busy. Looks like I almost missed a deadline, though I'm terribly confused by the timing. I see the three D3 vote counts from Faust, all of which say "Day 3 ends on Today at 11:00:00 am". I assume this means he's posting a day-time thing that's meant to translate it into "my" timezone? And that since I leave my timezone set to forum time, it's saying 11am on the 17th. And then the plus-24 hours means 11am on the 18th, yes? I hope so, because it's already the 18th where i am.

Anyway, welcome, e :-)

@Awaclus, I feel the same way about not being the worst lynch amd also the game being difficult to get into, and I'm not even a sub!

[SpaceAnemone]

I think he is...or at least was at the last VC

@Pops, am I just totally mis-remembering that you prefer she/her pronouns?

[SpaceAnemone]

@ EFHW:

I have no control over the message, but yes, something informs my customers.

I wasn’t informed of anything, except that the QT had opened. The next night I got a vague message about the memory of having been sold something.

@Galz, does this loved status of yours stack, so that you get more loved if more customers are voting for you?

[WestCoastDidds]

Vote: EFHW

 
If Awaclus and Space aren’t the worst lynch, pops and I are town, and e is maybe town but maybe not....there aren’t many folks left.

I’m interested in what e thinks of the Galz votes.

Deadline is tomorrow morning, I think.

[WestCoastDidds]

Deadline is tomorrow at 11 am forum time

[Galzria]

@ EFHW:

I have no control over the message, but yes, something informs my customers.

I wasn’t informed of anything, except that the QT had opened. The next night I got a vague message about the memory of having been sold something.

@Galz, does this loved status of yours stack, so that you get more loved if more customers are voting for you?

I posted the answer to this when I claimed my role, but for your clarity: No, it does not. 3 customers all voting me would still only be Loved +1, same as 1 customer voting me.

[Swowl]

I just realized my vote didn't count.

Vote: EFHW

[Swowl]

I am around for like the next few hours. Then I will have to go to bed. Will be up like literally as DL is approaching.

[Swowl]

Read again, still samesies on where I am at. Of the current options I guess I would switch to Joth to get a lynch off.

[popsofctown]

I prefer she/her but it's not a big deal.

I'm in for townbloccing and a Vote:EFHW, that is among the slots I've felt uncomfortable with.

[Swowl]

Alright well i guess we leave it to the people across the pond then. Gnight.

[faust]

Vote Count 3.3

jotheonah (1): Archetype
Galzria (2): EFHW, Awaclus
WestCoastDidds (1): SpaceAnemone
EFHW (3): WestCoastDidds, DatSwan, popsofctown

Not Voting (2): 2.71828....., Galzria

With 9 alive, it takes 5 to lynch. Day 3 ends on January 18, 2020, 11:00:00 am.

That is in 6.5 hours.

[2.71828.....]

I will be around to vote for a lynch, house chores this morning so I can't sit down and read like I wanted to.

I will do an EFHW and Galzria targeted read before the deadline. Although not sure who else is in a European time zone to vote with me, EFHW may be the only viable option at this point.

[2.71828.....]

@faust - vote count was changed to show I am not voting but still has people voting for joth

[EFHW]

I still think Galzria looks super scummy for the Shraeye lynch. Why would he stay on if his whole case was based on a mistake?

[EFHW]

I just realized Galzria's customer base will make him even harder to lynch,  so LALL (lynch all lurkers,  literally). vote: Archetype.

[2.71828.....]

Uh, yeah. Chores too up more time than I thought.

Vote: EFHW

Hope someone is around for the hammer

[2.71828.....]

Reasons for the vote:

1) sheep my town reads
2) they weren't memorable as town or scum in my initial read through. Which can happen as town, but is what scum want to be read like

[2.71828.....]

I just realized Galzria's customer base will make him even harder to lynch,  so LALL (lynch all lurkers,  literally). vote: Archetype.

I will never again lynch archetype for lurking.

(Toy story mafia)

[SpaceAnemone]

I'm around, and EFHW doesn't seem like a bad option to me given the way she pushed me and then backed off a bit earlier. Should I be worried about how quickly her wagon built, or is this just deadline pressure?

[SpaceAnemone]

Does anyone else think Galz's thing sounds like it would fit with an SK-style or survivor-style role? It's not exactly being lynchproof, but it contributes a bit in that sort of direction.

[WestCoastDidds]

Deadline pressure, general frustration with folks not playing....

[WestCoastDidds]

Does anyone else think Galz's thing sounds like it would fit with an SK-style or survivor-style role? It's not exactly being lynchproof, but it contributes a bit in that sort of direction.

That’s interesting...

[2.71828.....]

I'm around, and EFHW doesn't seem like a bad option to me given the way she pushed me and then backed off a bit earlier. Should I be worried about how quickly her wagon built, or is this just deadline pressure?

I would say deadline pressure. Plus all my town reads are on the wagon.

But I think you are 20 minutes late

[WestCoastDidds]

Deadline is in 40 minutes....she should be good

[2.71828.....]

Deadline is in 40 minutes....she should be good

Oh, I am an hour off. Math is hard. Never do math in public

[2.71828.....]

Deadline is in 40 minutes....she should be good

Are you sure?

Vote Count 3.3

jotheonah (1): Archetype
Galzria (2): EFHW, Awaclus
WestCoastDidds (1): SpaceAnemone
EFHW (3): WestCoastDidds, DatSwan, popsofctown

Not Voting (2): 2.71828....., Galzria

With 9 alive, it takes 5 to lynch. Day 3 ends on January 18, 2020, 11:00:00 am.

That is in 6.5 hours.

Deadline seems to be 24 minutes ago.

[WestCoastDidds]

It’s 10:25 forum time right now, yeah?

[SpaceAnemone]

I think faust is using that timing thing that is meant to make the time appear in your own timezone, except that I keep my f.ds time on forum time, but if you've ever messed with the time f.ds thinks it is in your location then it will probably mess with any timings faust gives.

[2.71828.....]

It’s 10:25 forum time right now, yeah?

The time should convert to whatever is local for you (or whatever time zone you have set on your profile)

Either way, space not voting now is scumny

[EFHW]

I don't have any kind of powerful claim to save myself because I lost my active powers when Glooble went romero. But my passive power is that if someone targets me at night a random person gets a message saying that I was targeted,  nothing else. You could not lynch me and wait a night to verify this. Pretty please?

[2.71828.....]

I don't have any kind of powerful claim to save myself because I lost my active powers when Glooble went romero. But my passive power is that if someone targets me at night a random person gets a message saying that I was targeted,  nothing else. You could not lynch me and wait a night to verify this. Pretty please?

And the alternative is Galzria? What do you think of the Space!theory

[SpaceAnemone]

It’s 10:25 forum time right now, yeah?

The time should convert to whatever is local for you (or whatever time zone you have set on your profile)

Either way, space not voting now is scumny

I keep my profile on Forum Time because it's easiest to know when forum time is that way. But nearing the dealdine, that time thing doesn't give a sensible date, it gives "Today", which confused my a lot last night when I was on the next calendar day already, looking at a deadline that had been shifted by 24 hours :-P

Anyway, I assume you there is plenty of time for me to hammer if I want to, and that it's not scummy for me to be re-reading and looking at the VC history in the meantime.

[SpaceAnemone]

Space Count

Galzria (1): Awaclus
2.71828..... (1): Archetype
WestCoastDidds (1): SpaceAnemone
EFHW (4): WestCoastDidds, DatSwan, popsofctown, 2.71828.....
Archetype (1): EFHW
Not Voting (1): Galzria

[EFHW]

I don't have any kind of powerful claim to save myself because I lost my active powers when Glooble went romero. But my passive power is that if someone targets me at night a random person gets a message saying that I was targeted,  nothing else. You could not lynch me and wait a night to verify this. Pretty please?

And the alternative is Galzria? What do you think of the Space!theory

Space seems scummy for sure. Is there a scum narrative for them?

[EFHW]

vote: Space

[SpaceAnemone]

I’m leaving my vote on Spacey for the time being. This game is weird, but they are playing far differently than usual. Where is the analytical, data based Space we all know and love?

I was unwell, but also I'm just finding this game really hard to get into.

I think I already mentioned looking at the D1 Galz wagon in my wagon analysis, but it's still really the only data-based argument I have. I guess it's a bit strong D3 than it was D2, but basially, lots of green-coloured people (by which I mean myself, and also LL, Glooble, ADK and Shraeye) voted Galz over D1. At the same time, the only as-yet-uncoloured players to vote Galz are Arch (consistently, including in various four-votes-on-Galz configurations), and then also Swan a little bit early on. That makes it prety likely that one of those three is scum. More likely that it's one of Arch or Galz.

This is misleading. I only ever placed one vote ever on Galz and that was during RVS.

The fact that you voted for him early on (#96) doesn't detract from the fact that your vote was sitting on him for almost the whole of D1. You voted elsewhere only at #315, and the hammer came at #334. And all that time, other votes were moving around him, and most of those other voters have flipped green (or will flip green when I flip). Given that there were almost no potential scum interacting on that wagon other than either you or Galz, it seems to make a tidy lynchpool.

Unfortuantely, I'm in the same postition as WCD re voting for Galz.. it took me a while to piece it together because I got some other weird messages in my QT as well last night :-(

[SpaceAnemone]

If I hammer EFHW, I probaly die tonight. So maybe I should encourage people just to lynch me?

[SpaceAnemone]

Meh.. I guess there's a non-zero chance that I go down taking scum with me?

Vote: EFHW

[WestCoastDidds]

If I hammer EFHW, I probaly die tonight. So maybe I should encourage people just to lynch me?

I don't think we have enough people around to do that

[WestCoastDidds]

Space, what was the weird message in your QT? About being a customer or having been sold something?

[SpaceAnemone]

If I hammer EFHW, I probaly die tonight. So maybe I should encourage people just to lynch me?

I don't think we have enough people around to do that

Or enough time, I realised!

[SpaceAnemone]

Space, what was the weird message in your QT? About being a customer or having been sold something?

The latter, in a broad sense. I've been pulled up before by faust for even what I considered a very loose paraphrasing of something in my QT, so I'm not taking chances!

[WestCoastDidds]

Space, what was the weird message in your QT? About being a customer or having been sold something?

The latter, in a broad sense. I've been pulled up before by faust for even what I considered a very loose paraphrasing of something in my QT, so I'm not taking chances!

Cool....did you get some sort of message before the day you were the customer or just afterwards?

[EFHW]

I can tell you that Space is a zombie.

[Swowl]

I can tell you that Space is a zombie.

we are twilight yes?

to what extent can you say that?

[Swowl]

I can tell you that Space is a zombie.

and if your abilities were taken away, how do you know?

[EFHW]

I can tell you that Space is a zombie.

and if your abilities were taken away, how do you know?

They were taken away at the start of day. I had powers before that.

Really long twilight. The wait is killing me!

[Awaclus]

Oh, I didn't even realize the deadline was yesterday.

[faust]

Day 3 Final Vote Count

2.71828.....(1): Archetype
Galzria (1): Awaclus
EFHW (5): WestCoastDidds, DatSwan, popsofctown, 2.71828....., SpaceAnemone
SpaceAnemone (1): EFHW

Not Voting (1): Galzria

With 9 alive, it took 5 to lynch. Sorry about the delay.

[faust]

"Breaking news: The head of the energy drink company Max Rager has been arrested under the suspicion of being responsible for several manic episodes That resulted in deaths. A spokesperson of the company called the charges ridiculous and said 'We will not stop providing our customer the ability to live life to the max.'"

EFHW has been lynched! They were Vaughn Du Clarke, the Mafia Triggered Vanilla Broadcasting Zombie Cop Roleblocker, and they were human.

Nigt 3 begins now and lasts until January 21, 2020, 06:30:00 am. Night actions dues within 36 hours.

Thread locked!

[faust]

I won't be able to start the game in time. I will extend Night 3 until January 21, 2020, 12:00:00 pm. You may submit night actions until January 21, 2020, 11:00:00 am.

[faust]

Would you look at all this mess? Who is supposed to take care of all this?

SpaceAnemone went Romero. They were Dale Bozzio, the Town-aligned Zombie Day 4 Suicidal Asceticising Seraph Knight, and they were a zombie.

Awaclus has been killed! They were Mr. Boss, the Mafia Ninjaiser Zombie-only Strong-Willed, and they were human!

EFHW's brain has been eaten! The threshold for successfully eating a brain is now 2 (previously 1).

Day 4 begins!

Vote Count 4.0

Not Voting (6): WestCoastDidds, DatSwan, 2.71828....., Archetype, popsofctown, Galzria

With 6 alive, it takes 4 to lynch. Day 4 ends on January 28, 2020, 12:30:00 pm.

[Galzria]

EFHW is still in the player and voting count.

[Archetype]

So, likely 1 or 2 mafia left right? I’m guessing only 1 since it seems the Romero deaths have been disproportionately affecting town and so 4 would be pretty rough. There could be a survivor or some other 3rd party too I guess.

[WestCoastDidds]

Cha cha cha!

Good going, whomever killed Awaclus!

No one ate EFHW's brain? So whatever zombies we have are that much closer to going Romero, yeah? 

[popsofctown]

The mafia must have some way of stopping people from eating brains, it seems to keep happening that not as many brains are eaten overnight as should make sense.

[faust]

EFHW is still in the player and voting count.

Sorry, fixed.

[faust]

EFHW's brain was in fact eaten. I added this to the Day start post.

[WestCoastDidds]

Thanks, faust!!

[Galzria]

Generally I would suggest no-lynch for parity, but given potential Zombie deaths that’s probably not best.

Given what I believe now to be a Town advantage (as compared to yesterday when we had 0 scum deaths...) I’m going to publicize my targets now. I don’t *think* it’ll matter to anybody, but I doubt it’ll hurt anyway:

N0 I targeted Didds
N1 I targeted Joth (2.718)
N2 I targeted Space
N3 I targeted Awaclus

Please note that as I have two living customers my effective lynch number is 5, not 4 - meaning everybody would need to vote for me.

Also note that as the game continues, if I have any customers alive at all, then at 4 players alive or fewer I’m unlynchable.

There was speculation about my alignment yesterday potentially being a Survivor or Third-Party. Sadly not (sadly as in, I think Survivor would’ve been a good fit for this role, and I likely, maybe, could’ve won with it). I am Town, but there’s one more facet to my role that MAY make lynching me worthwhile here:

I’m a temporary Vanilla-izer. If I’m lynched, the following night all of my customers will be VT’d for the night.

Right now my living customers are Didds & 2.718. If I’m lynched, they will both be VT during N4.

[popsofctown]

I'm guessing you're interested in that play because you think it could incriminate 2.7 or Didds Roleblocker style.  Depending on the mod though, vanillizer can have no effect on capability to use factional nightkill (converting the mafia roleblocker rolecop to a mafia goon doesn't keep the mafia goon from doing a nightkill because mafia goons can do nightkills).  That would be what I'm more used to seeing.

[2.71828.....]

That lynch/night sequence worked out really well.

observation: pops performed a D1 dayvig.  Someone killed Awaclus (as opposed to Awaclus going romero)

Either we have 2 town vigs or there is a third party here.  I think this means there are probably 2 more scum left.  One mafia and one 3rd party.

Also, I think this makes it more likely that pops is in fact town and the person who killed Awaclus is 3rd party.

[2.71828.....]

Actually had the time to sit down at a computer and reread and try to figure this out.

Dead Zombies
shraeye - Lynched D2 - Zombie - Ravi Chakrabarti, the Town-aligned Semi-Hidden Jack of all Trades Triggered Zombie Curer
SpaceAnemone - Gone Romero N3 - Zombie - Town-aligned Zombie Day 4 Suicidal Asceticising Seraph Knight
Glooble - Gone Romero N2 - Zombie - Town-aligned Zombiefying Doctor 2-shot Inventor Neighbor

Dead Humans
MiX - DayVig Killed D1 - Human - Town-aligned Human Targeted Backup Zombie Semi-Random Vigilante-Neighborizer - Brains Eaten N1
LaLight - Lynched D1 - Human - Town Flavor Cop/(Anti-Loyal Loud) Watcher-Tracker - Brains Eaten N2
A Drowned Kernel - Killed N1 - Human - Town-aligned Human Strong-Willed Zombie Collector Even-Night Jailkeeper (Loyal Self-Vanillaising) Double Hated-iser Neighbor - Brains Eaten N2
EFHW - Lynched D3 - Human - Mafia Triggered Vanilla Broadcasting Zombie Cop Roleblocker - Brains Eaten N3
Awaclus - Killed N3 - Human - Mafia Ninjaiser Zombie-only Strong-Willed - Brains Available

Alive Players
WestCoastDidds - Opens a QT with anyone who targets her but does not have an action that can target anyone.  D1 neighborhood with Galzria, confirms that Galzria told her about the voting mechanic for his role. D3 QT with Swan.
DatSwan - unspecified targeting of WCD N2. No other claims
jotheonah/2.7 - Targeted Glooble with Zombie Cure N2. I can confirm that he did this.  It also didn't work. No other claims
Archetype - Death Miller/miller - Shares same alignment as shraeye in investigation and in death. No other claims
popsofctown - DayVig.  One shot seems very likely, although the second time pops "shot" they used the wrong syntax. No other claims.
Galzria - Targets a player each night.  If any player he has targeted is on his wagon then he is loved. If he gets lynched on D4 (and only D4) anyone he has targeted will be vanilla-ized. N0 - Didds, N1 - joth/e, N2 - Space, N3 - Awaclus.

Couple things I noticed:
Zombies Remaining:
 - 2 brains were eaten N2, which means that there are at least 2 zombies remaining and I would guess that (at least) one of them is scum since the other two mafia were human
 - 1 brain was eaten N3, which means one of those two zombies will go Romero unless they eat a brain tonight

Interesting Thought:
Which means that there is a very real possibility that we have (at least?) two more deaths tonight.  Especially if we have a SK and mafia and someone go Romero.  Although no NK on N2 then the NK for N3 killing scum is very interesting. 

Claims:
 - I believe WCD and Galzria's claims.  I think that WCD has played townie and has a townie claim and is basically town.  Galzria's claim to be loved and then have a vanilla-izer (why only on D4?) is very interesting and seems less townie, but still townie.  I don't think it is worth lynching Galzria just to vanilla-ize WCD and myself especially with a potential 2 deaths tonight. Except the whole thing that if Galzria is scum and telling the truth and survives until tomorrow he is likely un-lynchable
 - I want to know about DatSwan's role
 - I have more to claim and think that doing a mass-claim for everyone left is good
 - I am suspicious of pops being a 3rd party with their day-kill
 - I am trying to understand what shraeye's flip means in light of Archetype's claim.  I really hadn't read thoroughly yesterday or I feel like I would have been more suspicious. Does archetype flip town now even if they are scum?

Reads
don't want to lynch: WCD, Galzria
unconvinced: pops
Would lynch: Archetype, Datswan

[2.71828.....]

Actually, pops - did you have a Daykill and a Nightkill? 

Or-----did pops have a Daykill/UB role where pops received the power of the person they killed.  Because Mix flipped with vigilante in their role.

And it wouldn't make sense to have a town dayvig, town vigilante, and then another town vig on top of that.  There has to be scum sprinkled in there.  But if it was a pure SK then they would have had more than just one NK, and the general lack of NKs makes that seem not quite right.

If pops inherited the vigilante shot after killing MiX.  That seems like a role a third-party might have.

[2.71828.....]

The more I type the more I am convincing myself that pops is scum.

I feel like Galz/WCD have been the most open-book reads and are townie.

DatSwan targeted WCD with something N2 and they shared a qt D3.  I assume that Swan shared their role with WCD? Which might be part of why they haven't really said anything about their role.   That and they haven't been asked.

I am actually comfortable if Swan did share their role with WCD and WCD says they don't need to claim, Swan doesn't claim their role.

Which is slowly drawing the box around Archetype and pops as the two remaining scum.  I would think Archetype is the mafia and pops is 3rd party?

[2.71828.....]

Things I want to know:

pops - Did you kill Awaclus last night?

WCD/Swan - did you discuss Swan's role yesterday?
 - If yes, WCD - should Swan claim?  Do you think they are town?

Archetype - Can you confirm exactly what shraeye's flip means in relation to your role

[popsofctown]

Nah I didn't kill Awaclus

[2.71828.....]

Nah I didn't kill Awaclus

There go those theories. Unless you are lying

But I am more and more pointed in the direction of archetype

Between the role, being off-wagon, and my gut....

Vote: archetype

[Archetype]

Nah I didn't kill Awaclus

There go those theories. Unless you are lying

But I am more and more pointed in the direction of archetype

Between the role, being off-wagon, and my gut....

Vote: archetype

Off wagon on what exactly? The two town lynches I opposed? Or does that only count when talking about scum?

[Galzria]

Ah, perhaps I wasn’t clear:

My passive Vanilla-izer ability is triggered on ANY night after I’m lynched, not just D4.

[Archetype]

And nothing changes about how I’ll flip since shraeye was town too

[2.71828.....]

Nah I didn't kill Awaclus

There go those theories. Unless you are lying

But I am more and more pointed in the direction of archetype

Between the role, being off-wagon, and my gut....

Vote: archetype

Off wagon on what exactly? The two town lynches I opposed? Or does that only count when talking about scum?

Only bored that count are ones after I subbed in

[2.71828.....]

Nah I didn't kill Awaclus

There go those theories. Unless you are lying

But I am more and more pointed in the direction of archetype

Between the role, being off-wagon, and my gut....

Vote: archetype

Off wagon on what exactly? The two town lynches I opposed? Or does that only count when talking about scum?

Only bored that count are ones after I subbed in

That was supposed to be voted, not bored

[Galzria]

And nothing changes about how I’ll flip since shraeye was town too

How do you describe your role given Shraeye was Town? Doesn’t Miller/Death Miller by definition mean you’ll investigate and flip scum, even though you’re Town? What point is there in being Town... who investigates/flips based on... a Town player?

[2.71828.....]

Ah, perhaps I wasn’t clear:

My passive Vanilla-izer ability is triggered on ANY night after I’m lynched, not just D4.

That makes more sense than a random day.

[Archetype]

And nothing changes about how I’ll flip since shraeye was town too

How do you describe your role given Shraeye was Town? Doesn’t Miller/Death Miller by definition mean you’ll investigate and flip scum, even though you’re Town? What point is there in being Town... who investigates/flips based on... a Town player?

I don’t make the role names, just say them

[Archetype]

Nah I didn't kill Awaclus

There go those theories. Unless you are lying

But I am more and more pointed in the direction of archetype

Between the role, being off-wagon, and my gut....

Vote: archetype

Off wagon on what exactly? The two town lynches I opposed? Or does that only count when talking about scum?

Only bored that count are ones after I subbed in

That was supposed to be voted, not bored

Idk how well that reasoning fairs given a reread of the game

[2.71828.....]

Nah I didn't kill Awaclus

There go those theories. Unless you are lying

But I am more and more pointed in the direction of archetype

Between the role, being off-wagon, and my gut....

Vote: archetype

Off wagon on what exactly? The two town lynches I opposed? Or does that only count when talking about scum?

Only bored that count are ones after I subbed in

That was supposed to be voted, not bored

Idk how well that reasoning fairs given a reread of the game

It was actually just meant to be humorous.

But really all you have done voting-wise is tunnel me (joth). So don't pretend like it was through much internal debate and strife that after much deliberation decided where to vote.

You found joth scummy and have stuck to it. And luckily for you I haven't died so you haven't needed to switch up your tunnel

[2.71828.....]

Anyway, it is way past my bedtime. All you people in American time zones have fun now

[Archetype]

So how does the off-wagon argument play into that? Why is not voting EFHW scummy and not voting a townread tunneling?

[WestCoastDidds]

Oh! Tuesday night wine tasting! Accidental DAMA! Wtf....I have to write tomorrow. What have I done??

[WestCoastDidds]

Morning now...oof. What an ill-considered Tuesday night activity.

E, thank you for the hard work. On my list for today was a reread of everything in light of team Awa/EFHW by this was helpful of a consolidation than id have had time for.

Awaclus targeted me last night but I don’t have a QT with him because he died. I don’t have any other neighhoods today.

In regard to DatSwan....I only know why he says that he targeted me. It should be the case that if he was telling the truth, someone else can speak to that today. If this doesn’t happen soon, he’s my best bet for scum. He did not tell me the other features of his role. Cagey, that one.

I am also aware there is a not-town odd-night bus driver in the game.  I don’t think we have seen that flip (please correct me if I am wrong), so I assume they are still here.

Finally, I am not interested in lynching Galzy. More powers aren’t super powerful, but they are more useful for us now than they were initially so I’d rather not lose them. I don’t think it’s likely he’s that kind of lynchproof and scum. If he’s a third party, then he killed scum and I’m okay with that.

So, I don’t prefer to lynch e or Galzy
Still uncertain about pops but find them more town than not
DTL archetype or Swan (depending on if he can verify his target/power last night or not)

[Galzria]

Yikes. This is moving at lightning pace.

My preference of lynch goes:

Archetype = 2.718 > Datswan >> Pops =/> WCD

Just to be different, vote: 2.718

[Swowl]

Things I want to know:

pops - Did you kill Awaclus last night?

WCD/Swan - did you discuss Swan's role yesterday?
 - If yes, WCD - should Swan claim?  Do you think they are town?

Archetype - Can you confirm exactly what shraeye's flip means in relation to your role

We did discuss it. I see no point in not claiming.

I am essentially a survivor zombie. I have a compulsive ability that requires me to target a player each night, whom will be turned into a zombie. I do not get why it is a compulsive ability, as my win con is to be alive when the game ends and have a certain percent of zombies in the game. I obviously, am also a zombie.

There is a further confusion, which is that my ability is enabled by something. I think it is a player. But as long as it is active/the player is alive/whatever it is, the compulsive nature of my ability stands. I say confusion, because based upon my win con I do no see why I would not target someone every night anyways.

I have a second ability which is to appear as "human" when checked, instead of zombie. But I cannot use it the same night I use the ability to turn someone in a zombie. That was the primary reason I had at first for thinking that skum=zombies way back when.

I also have a third ability that allows me, or anyone, to eat a brain. The brain does not belong to anyone, it is just like a random brain.

Night Zero I did not have to target. And did not.
Night 1 I targeted Shraeye - which is why I did not want to lynch Shraeye. I also used my ability to eat a brain for myself.
Night 2 I targeted WCD obviously. I attempted to use my ability on myself again, but it did not work.
Night 3 I targeted Awaclus. Which did not work out. I used my ability on myself to eat a brain again to prevent from going romeo.

Outside of that IDK what to give. i had a read on EFHW and it was right. Awaclus doesn't change a whole hell of a lot but I will run some VCA anyways to be sure. I do not think that WCD or Galz are skum. I do think I have other zombie partners out there I may not know about.

[WestCoastDidds]

Yikes. This is moving at lightning pace.

My preference of lynch goes:

Archetype = 2.718 > Datswan >> Pops =/> WCD

Just to be different, vote: 2.718

Talk to me, Galzy. Why is e up there with Archie?

[WestCoastDidds]

Archetype, what’s your view of e’s assessment of the game so far? What does your chum to scum list look like?

[Galzria]

Yikes. This is moving at lightning pace.

My preference of lynch goes:

Archetype = 2.718 > Datswan >> Pops =/> WCD

Just to be different, vote: 2.718

Talk to me, Galzy. Why is e up there with Archie?

Well, in e’s defense, he’s been rather townie. It’s his predecessor Joth that I found scummy.

[2.71828.....]

My parents are in town right now so I have not been very active the last couple days after my initial posts.

Datswan's claim is very interesting and seems to fit in place with everything.

My concern with datswan is that I think the last mafia member is a zombie so datswan isn't necessarily going to help us if they see an opportunity to win with scum

[Galzria]

e, why did you choose Awaclus to kill last night?

[Galzria]

vote: Archetype

[Archetype]

Well, I figured it's time to get this out there.

I am the one that killed Awaclus

Part of my role is a 1-shot vig. He was pretty likely scum based on EFHW's behavior after she flipped scum. And also he hardly contributed so probably not worth spending a lynch on.

I have a working theory about the limits of Mafia's ability to kill. With a suicidal role, the romero mechanic, only one 'kill' unaccounted for (ADK's N1 death), no one to account for the lack of a scum kill last night, and the brain threshold changing on every night EXCEPT N1, my theory is that the mafia has some sort of factional ability where they can either kill someone or increase the threshold by one.

Reads wise....

Galzria: power is obv very worrying if he is scum. Pushed the odd double voter wagon on shraeye, but his interactions with EFHW don't scream scum to me

2.7: hasn't had actions verified by anyone and no one has claimed the ability to produce the zombie cure he claimed to have.

WCD: townreading here, sheeps EFHW's vote at one point in a way that would be 'too scummy to be scum'. Also has a verified power.

DatSwan: I believe his claim, so I guess that means I don't find him to be likely scum.

pops: Still hard to read....from a design perspective, having so many vigs could cause the game to end very early if they target only scum. Last night kinda verifies my theory a bit more which points more to pops' power being a scum one to give them more killing ability.

so,

would lynch: pops and 2.7
wouldn't lynch today: DatSwan, WCD, Galzria

vote: 2.7

[Archetype]

vote: Archetype

you should prob unvote

[Galzria]

For now, sure:

Unvote

[Galzria]

e, why did you choose Awaclus to kill last night?

Well, this is moot now unless e wants to counter claim Archetype.

FWIW: I miscounted in my head when I asked this. I knew I didn’t do it, it would be strange for Swan to have made the claim he did without taking credit had he done it, WCD didn’t make sense based on her PR, and Pops directly answered “No, I didn’t do it”. That left e... if one were guilty of forgetting Archetype. 😝

[Archetype]

e, why did you choose Awaclus to kill last night?

Well, this is moot now unless e wants to counter claim Archetype.

FWIW: I miscounted in my head when I asked this. I knew I didn’t do it, it would be strange for Swan to have made the claim he did without taking credit had he done it, WCD didn’t make sense based on her PR, and Pops directly answered “No, I didn’t do it”. That left e... if one were guilty of forgetting Archetype. 😝

Forgiven

[Galzria]

- I have more to claim and think that doing a mass-claim for everyone left is good

Alright e, I think it’s fair for you to out what you have at this point.

[Galzria]

Is there a reason Pops can’t be scum? I had been giving him a general pass for his aggressive playstyle being uncommon for scum, combined with his PR being unusual to give to scum in a game where there’s already a mechanic for extra deaths - but given what appears to be a weaker scum-NK-mechanic, combined with the fact that we’ve already now seen a few Town Vig’s... it seems much less far fetched to give scum the ability to have a day-kill (and/or possibly more than one).

[Archetype]

I think a full claim from pops and 2.7 each shouldn’t be too big of an ask

[Galzria]

I think a full claim from pops and 2.7 each shouldn’t be too big of an ask

Hmm, I agree.

[WestCoastDidds]

Yep, yep

[popsofctown]

I'm a 1 shot dayvig with a weird zombie anthropology role.  Each night I target a living or dead player I didn't shoot I watch to see if zombies eat that brain.  Then if I see a zombie eat the brain I learn that zombie's behavior, and if I target the zombie with the ability and they eat a brain that night, I will learn if that zombie is "mafia" or "not mafia".  I shot MiX very early because my davyig I didn't like the restriction on not being able to watch the consumption of the brain of my dayvig and I was hopeful there were no zombies N1 so maybe I avoid the downside.  N1 I watched LaLight, no one ate the brain, but someone did eat MiX's brain, so that was sadface.  N2 I watched LaLight again, and DatSwan ate the brain, which doesn't seem like nutritional behavior he is being honest about, but probably as made zombie(s) that he is feeding aside from shraeye and he's claiming to only self target to keep his darlings secret so he hits his percentage.  N3 I targetd DatSwan and learned that DatSwan is not mafia.

Also, Glooble sent me a "Stalker Brain" night 1.  It arrived at the beginning of the night where I could use it night 1, if it was valid.  I have to be a zombie to use it, and I wasn't a zombie at that time (no comment now).  So I gave him the funny post about Netflix to convey that.  In addition to providing nutrition, it targets a player to learn if they share an alignment with me, and if they don't share an alignment with me they get roleblocked.  It's more powerful than my ability so I promise to use it at whatsoever point I may become a zombie, but I would like to keep my current level of humanness secret so it stays unclear how worthwhile it is to nightkill me.

[WestCoastDidds]

It’s all so interesting now!

[Swowl]

Pops is truthful on me. I did try to eat Shraeyes brain. I failed. But i did try. And yeah it was to try to feed someone i was fairly certain was a zombie a brain.

[Swowl]

Sorry i Realized i typo-d. Night 2 was LL not Shraeye for brain eating. Shrayeye
, as mentioned was my night 1 zombie target. And night 2 was WCD.

[WestCoastDidds]

Okay, e, what's your story?

[faust]

Vote Count 4.1

Archetype (1): 2.71828.....
2.71828..... (1): Archetype

Not Voting (4): WestCoastDidds, DatSwan, popsofctown, Galzria

With 6 alive, it takes 4 to lynch. Day 4 ends on January 28, 2020, 12:30:00 pm.

[Galzria]

vote: 2.718

[WestCoastDidds]

I’m ready to vote for e, but that will put him at L-1. Any reason to hold off? I’m in the hill country with friends this weekend so I’m not sure how much I’ll be around Sat/Sun.

[Galzria]

I’m ready to vote for e, but that will put him at L-1. Any reason to hold off? I’m in the hill country with friends this weekend so I’m not sure how much I’ll be around Sat/Sun.

I assume he’s just busy honestly. But I’m comfortable defaulting to him if he doesn’t come in and claim.

[WestCoastDidds]

Agreed...and there is no particular hurry.

So, I’ll be scarce this weekend but that’s my thinking at the moment.

[Galzria]

60 hours to deadline.

[2.71828.....]

Hey, really sorry I haven't been around.

First things first: joth lied.

The 1 shot cure is a part of my role and always has been.

Second things: I am a zombie cop.
N1 joth investigated glooble
N2 joth used the cure on glooble and investigated pops and got zombie
N3 I investigated WCD and got zombie

I no longer have the cure, joth spent it

[2.71828.....]

I assume joth lied to try to keep himself alive, but he didn't share in his qt

[2.71828.....]

Things I want to know:

pops - Did you kill Awaclus last night?

WCD/Swan - did you discuss Swan's role yesterday?
 - If yes, WCD - should Swan claim?  Do you think they are town?

Archetype - Can you confirm exactly what shraeye's flip means in relation to your role

We did discuss it. I see no point in not claiming.

I am essentially a survivor zombie. I have a compulsive ability that requires me to target a player each night, whom will be turned into a zombie. I do not get why it is a compulsive ability, as my win con is to be alive when the game ends and have a certain percent of zombies in the game. I obviously, am also a zombie.

There is a further confusion, which is that my ability is enabled by something. I think it is a player. But as long as it is active/the player is alive/whatever it is, the compulsive nature of my ability stands. I say confusion, because based upon my win con I do no see why I would not target someone every night anyways.

I have a second ability which is to appear as "human" when checked, instead of zombie. But I cannot use it the same night I use the ability to turn someone in a zombie. That was the primary reason I had at first for thinking that skum=zombies way back when.

I also have a third ability that allows me, or anyone, to eat a brain. The brain does not belong to anyone, it is just like a random brain.

Night Zero I did not have to target. And did not.
Night 1 I targeted Shraeye - which is why I did not want to lynch Shraeye. I also used my ability to eat a brain for myself.
Night 2 I targeted WCD obviously. I attempted to use my ability on myself again, but it did not work.
Night 3 I targeted Awaclus. Which did not work out. I used my ability on myself to eat a brain again to prevent from going romeo.

Outside of that IDK what to give. i had a read on EFHW and it was right. Awaclus doesn't change a whole hell of a lot but I will run some VCA anyways to be sure. I do not think that WCD or Galz are skum. I do think I have other zombie partners out there I may not know about.

1. Turns people into zombies
2. Zombie godfather
3. Eat random brains

So....could be a survivor but that sounds an awful lot like someone in the mafia. Thinking about archetype's theory with scum kills being replaced with raising the brain eating threshold.

I don't think all the pieces fit perfectly but we aren't working with perfect information either because scum hides things

[2.71828.....]

Vote: datswan

[2.71828.....]

Well, I figured it's time to get this out there.

I am the one that killed Awaclus

Part of my role is a 1-shot vig. He was pretty likely scum based on EFHW's behavior after she flipped scum. And also he hardly contributed so probably not worth spending a lynch on.

I have a working theory about the limits of Mafia's ability to kill. With a suicidal role, the romero mechanic, only one 'kill' unaccounted for (ADK's N1 death), no one to account for the lack of a scum kill last night, and the brain threshold changing on every night EXCEPT N1, my theory is that the mafia has some sort of factional ability where they can either kill someone or increase the threshold by one.

Reads wise....

Galzria: power is obv very worrying if he is scum. Pushed the odd double voter wagon on shraeye, but his interactions with EFHW don't scream scum to me

2.7: hasn't had actions verified by anyone and no one has claimed the ability to produce the zombie cure he claimed to have.

WCD: townreading here, sheeps EFHW's vote at one point in a way that would be 'too scummy to be scum'. Also has a verified power.

DatSwan: I believe his claim, so I guess that means I don't find him to be likely scum.

pops: Still hard to read....from a design perspective, having so many vigs could cause the game to end very early if they target only scum. Last night kinda verifies my theory a bit more which points more to pops' power being a scum one to give them more killing ability.

so,

would lynch: pops and 2.7
wouldn't lynch today: DatSwan, WCD, Galzria

vote: 2.7

Part of my role is being a SK. What's the other part of your role?

My previous thoughts about datswan=3rd party / archetype=scum may be just flipped where archetype is 3rd party scum and datswan is mafia scum.

And I think it is more important to lynch mafia before 3rd party

[2.71828.....]

I'm a 1 shot dayvig with a weird zombie anthropology role.  Each night I target a living or dead player I didn't shoot I watch to see if zombies eat that brain.  Then if I see a zombie eat the brain I learn that zombie's behavior, and if I target the zombie with the ability and they eat a brain that night, I will learn if that zombie is "mafia" or "not mafia".  I shot MiX very early because my davyig I didn't like the restriction on not being able to watch the consumption of the brain of my dayvig and I was hopeful there were no zombies N1 so maybe I avoid the downside.  N1 I watched LaLight, no one ate the brain, but someone did eat MiX's brain, so that was sadface.  N2 I watched LaLight again, and DatSwan ate the brain, which doesn't seem like nutritional behavior he is being honest about, but probably as made zombie(s) that he is feeding aside from shraeye and he's claiming to only self target to keep his darlings secret so he hits his percentage.  N3 I targetd DatSwan and learned that DatSwan is not mafia.

Also, Glooble sent me a "Stalker Brain" night 1.  It arrived at the beginning of the night where I could use it night 1, if it was valid.  I have to be a zombie to use it, and I wasn't a zombie at that time (no comment now).  So I gave him the funny post about Netflix to convey that.  In addition to providing nutrition, it targets a player to learn if they share an alignment with me, and if they don't share an alignment with me they get roleblocked.  It's more powerful than my ability so I promise to use it at whatsoever point I may become a zombie, but I would like to keep my current level of humanness secret so it stays unclear how worthwhile it is to nightkill me.

Everything pops has done lines up with this + consistent good reads on Awaclus and EFHW throughout the game = town

[2.71828.....]

So current thoughts:
Town
WCD
Galzria
Pops
2.7

Scum
Mafia- datswan
3rd party- archetype

[popsofctown]

I investigated DatSwan and got not-mafia though

It is pretty clear he's not aligned with the town, but he's also claiming he isn't. 

The way my role is phrased, he could be mafia if he's a godfather, but it's usually not worth it to play around godfather.  Zombie godfather+mafia godfather is weird, too

[Archetype]

If I’m a SK where are my other two kills?

If you believe pops is town, you should believe datswan to be Town. Therefore, thinking he is scum doesn’t make sense. Are you standing by DS being mafia?

Claiming joth lied about the item is the play e did have to make to salvage that claim.

[Archetype]

Oh what the heck. Last night, someone gave me a vial of zombie cure. As a night action, I can turn a zombie human. I know this doesn't prove my alignment, but since I am town, I would like to use it before you lynch me. That does mean either someone is going to have to claim zombie or trust me to have strong zombie reads.

If joth is a zombie cop, he should have no reason asking people to claim Zombie. He already knew Glooble was a zombie according to e’s claim and so he shouldn’t need to rely on people claiming to be one.

[popsofctown]

Vote: 2.7
Lynch all liars I'm sold

[2.71828.....]

Vote: 2.7
Lynch all liars I'm sold

Pops is truthful on me. I did try to eat Shraeyes brain. I failed. But i did try. And yeah it was to try to feed someone i was fairly certain was a zombie a brain.

So lynch datswan.

[Galzria]

Vote: 2.7
Lynch all liars I'm sold

Pops is truthful on me. I did try to eat Shraeyes brain. I failed. But i did try. And yeah it was to try to feed someone i was fairly certain was a zombie a brain.

So lynch datswan.

And expect him to flip... what? Not Mafia. SK? Survivor? That’s a lynch problem for another day.

[WestCoastDidds]

I don’t think e is telling the truth

[WestCoastDidds]

Intent to hammer e

[Galzria]

Here’s where I’m at:

- Archetype is either Town or SK. Only person to claim a NK on Mafia.
- Pops is either Town or Mafia. His result on Datswan as being “Not-Mafia” came after Swan’s claim so is essentially valueless, except that it demonstrates that...:
- Datswan is either Survivor or SK. If Pops is Mafia, Swan isn’t. If Pops is Town, then Swan also isn’t Mafia.
- WCD is either Town or Mafia, but I’m reading her as Town. There are things that point to her potentially being Mafia: Namely we’ve already seen Town Neighborizer variations flip, but I’m willing to put her at a reconsider for tomorrow if necessary.
- I know I’m Town.
- That leaves e, who comes in as either Town or Mafia. Given my town read on WCD, he’s one of only two people that I’m willing to lynch today, the other being Pops. As I’ve scum read Joth more than I’ve scum read Pops, I’m ok with this lynch.

If e flips Mafia, we’ll likely need to consider between Swan & Archetype tomorrow.
If e flips Town, we’ll need to consider between WCD & Pops for Mafia, and whether or not we trust Archetype to be Town instead of SK, and Swan to be the Survivor he’s claimed.

[WestCoastDidds]

If e had targeted me to discover if was a zombie, I’d have known about it. So, I think he is lying.

[Swowl]

Intent to hammer E

Beat you too it. I don’t see why waiting.

Vote: E!

[WestCoastDidds]

Cool. I didn’t want to vote until everyone had weighed in, so I was really just waiting on you.

[Galzria]

#HammerTime

[WestCoastDidds]

Hhhmmm...

Just in case we need everyone vote: e

[faust]

Day 4 Final Vote Count

2.71828..... (4): Archetype, Galzria, popsofctown, DatSwan
DatSwan (1): 2.71828.....

Not Voting (1): WestCoastDidds

With 6 alive, it took 4 to lynch.

[faust]

2.71828..... has been lynched! They were Blaine DeBeers, the Mafia 1-shot Zombie Curer Greedy Brain Supplier Enabled Odd-Night Bus Driver!

The Town-aligned faction wins! The Fillmore-Graves faction, consisting of popsofctown and DatSwan wins as well!

[faust]

Some QTs:

Mod
Speccy

Mafia
Fillmore-Graves

Neighborhood (ADK/Glooble)
Neighborhood (Galzria/Didds)
Neighborhood (DatSwan/Didds)

[Galzria]

Hey, neat!

Good job everybody!

[faust]

Most of the setup can be found here: https://quicktopic.com/52/H/rmEHEQeakjvf

Fillmore-Graves was a kind of Survivor-like faction that could win with either Town or Mafia, but needed to turn everyone Zombie (and counted as a threat to town as long as they didn't). In theory, the game would have gone on after this lynch, but since Didds was guaranteed to die next Night and that gave FG a blocking majority, turning everyone into a zombie could not be prevented.

[MiX]

So my real votes were on scum, scum and third-party. I like that.

Thanks for winning town!

[Galzria]

I’m sorry I pushed your lynch Shraeye!

[popsofctown]

I did not understand that we counted as a threat to the town as long as we were alive, and I thought that when the last mafia was lynched we would lose if we hadn't achieved our wincon yet.  I would have appreciated better communication on that (well, unless we weren't supposed to understand that and that was part of the design)

[popsofctown]

I'm really proud of my fakeclaim and how well it was accepted

I am sorry for removing you from this game MiX   I was paranoid that there was a faction in the game that was opposite and wanted to make everybody humans so I was shooting at someone I thought might be that faction from the way they were talking.  I knew it was also possible there was no such faction but as 3rd party I didn't actually have to care whether you were town or scum so it seemed like the only good shooting criterion.

[2.71828.....]

I really messed up with the time on the D3 lynch

I thought I was voting my partner to L-1 then going to end with a no lynch.

Except my forum clock was set wrong......

[2.71828.....]

So awaclus' kill was delayed? So that is why it didn't go through?

[2.71828.....]

What was the Fillmore Graves win con?

Could I have claimed zombie mafia and the two of them would have just been kingmakers?

[2.71828.....]

Except, I still had the cure so I could have back-stabbed them

[faust]

I did not understand that we counted as a threat to the town as long as we were alive, and I thought that when the last mafia was lynched we would lose if we hadn't achieved our wincon yet.  I would have appreciated better communication on that (well, unless we weren't supposed to understand that and that was part of the design)

It is my policy to not point out misinterpretations when I see them unless I am directly asked a question. The thought process being that that would favor scum factions who can actually talk about their misinterpretations over town who might also misread their role, but aren't talking about it so I don't see it.

I'm not 100% sure that that's the best way to do it, but it's worked alright so far.

[2.71828.....]

But yeah, I really just screwed up the D3 lynch.

Sorry, mafia team

[2.71828.....]

What was the Fillmore Graves win con?

Could I have claimed zombie mafia and the two of them would have just been kingmakers?

Most of the setup can be found here: https://quicktopic.com/52/H/rmEHEQeakjvf

Fillmore-Graves was a kind of Survivor-like faction that could win with either Town or Mafia, but needed to turn everyone Zombie (and counted as a threat to town as long as they didn't). In theory, the game would have gone on after this lynch, but since Didds was guaranteed to die next Night and that gave FG a blocking majority, turning everyone into a zombie could not be prevented.

Ok, I see

[faust]

So awaclus' kill was delayed? So that is why it didn't go through?

Yes.

What was the Fillmore Graves win con?

Could I have claimed zombie mafia and the two of them would have just been kingmakers?

You could have cooperated... if they believed you. You still would have needed to make sure to not starve before the game ends. Which might have proven difficult since Galzria could have blocked you one Night.

[MiX]

I'm really proud of my fakeclaim and how well it was accepted

I am sorry for removing you from this game MiX   I was paranoid that there was a faction in the game that was opposite and wanted to make everybody humans so I was shooting at someone I thought might be that faction from the way they were talking.  I knew it was also possible there was no such faction but as 3rd party I didn't actually have to care whether you were town or scum so it seemed like the only good shooting criterion.

I helped zombies stay alive! I wanted to help town zombies 

But you helped town in the end, that's all that matters.

[popsofctown]

I did not understand that we counted as a threat to the town as long as we were alive, and I thought that when the last mafia was lynched we would lose if we hadn't achieved our wincon yet.  I would have appreciated better communication on that (well, unless we weren't supposed to understand that and that was part of the design)

It is my policy to not point out misinterpretations when I see them unless I am directly asked a question. The thought process being that that would favor scum factions who can actually talk about their misinterpretations over town who might also misread their role, but aren't talking about it so I don't see it.

I'm not 100% sure that that's the best way to do it, but it's worked alright so far.

Oh, this is my modding philosophy also, the location where I would argue for different communication is only in my role PM.  100% agree with not jumping in based on discussions that were visible in the third party PT

[shraeye]

I’m sorry I pushed your lynch Shraeye!

No worries!  I've been soooooo crazy off in all my reads lately that it's probably in everybody's best interest to lynch me.  Either you get scum, or you get loud+wrong out of the way

[Archetype]

Hooray!

Good job town and fun setup Faust! Cool roles and interesting mechanics

[popsofctown]

I think this is my first 3p win

[Archetype]

I'm really proud of my fakeclaim and how well it was accepted

I am sorry for removing you from this game MiX   I was paranoid that there was a faction in the game that was opposite and wanted to make everybody humans so I was shooting at someone I thought might be that faction from the way they were talking.  I knew it was also possible there was no such faction but as 3rd party I didn't actually have to care whether you were town or scum so it seemed like the only good shooting criterion.

Really good fakeclaim. I thought there was the potential of you and DatSwan being in cahoots, but would have expected you to have the same anthology type role.

[Galzria]

So awaclus' kill was delayed? So that is why it didn't go through?

Yes.

What was the Fillmore Graves win con?

Could I have claimed zombie mafia and the two of them would have just been kingmakers?

You could have cooperated... if they believed you. You still would have needed to make sure to not starve before the game ends. Which might have proven difficult since Galzria could have blocked you one Night.

Yeah, for those interested, the two unclaimed parts of my role were:
- Every one of my customers got changed to Vanilla of their faction the night following my death (not just my lynch). I claimed lynch only in the hopes that if we were wrong on the lynch during the final day, that it would encourage a NK on me - hands down the most useful way for me to die.
- I could actively Vanilla-ize any of my existing customers at night, with the cost of losing them as customers on following days. Had were lynched anybody other than e here (say, pops), I would’ve used this power at night on e. I did not feel super confident using it earlier in the game however.

[WestCoastDidds]

Hooray! That was super fun faust. Thank you!

[Glooble]

Glad we won after my abysmal play.

[WestCoastDidds]

So awaclus' kill was delayed? So that is why it didn't go through?

Yes, the other part of my role is that the actions are delayed. So, he. Someone targeted me, the neighborhood opened and the action was delayed. I had a 1-shot role block but I used it to stay human figuring if I got shot one more day might be enough to out whomever shot me.

[Swowl]

good game everyone!
gjob Pop!

Thanks for the game Faust, was super fun set up.

[jotheonah]

I wanted to apologize for signing up for this and then having to bail. I think it was rough on scum to deal with two replacements on the scum team. But it turns out I did not have the real life bandwidth for this game.

[EFHW]

I wanted to apologize for signing up for this and then having to bail. I think it was rough on scum to deal with two replacements on the scum team. But it turns out I did not have the real life bandwidth for this game.

It's ok. I appreciate the effort e put into it. For a moment, I thought he would save the day.

[Galzria]

I wanted to apologize for signing up for this and then having to bail. I think it was rough on scum to deal with two replacements on the scum team. But it turns out I did not have the real life bandwidth for this game.

Honestly, e did great selling his personal towniness - but I had already pegged you as scum based on your play prior to your replacement. And to be fair to you, it was actually based on your play, not your lack-thereof, which I was certainly equally as guilty of.

Don’t feel too bad about having low availability - I think most people did in general!