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Author Topic: Phrasing the new Reaction timing rule  (Read 3804 times)

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Jeebus

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Re: Phrasing the new Reaction timing rule
« Reply #25 on: October 22, 2019, 05:19:26 pm »
0

Tunnel and Faithful Hound are non-secret Reactions, but currently they can only trigger for one player.

The part about "keeping having the option of doing the Reaction until you decide not to do anything else" is only really relevant for multiple players. When it's just you, you have that option for everything, not just Reactions. As such, I think that it's a bit confusing to have that there. It fits better in the paragraph about multiple players.

markusin

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Re: Phrasing the new Reaction timing rule
« Reply #26 on: October 22, 2019, 11:43:36 pm »
+1

Essentially, optional abilities now have a fundamentally different timing than mandatory ones even when they happen "at the same time".
For me they aren't at all different. The different thing about mandatory things is that they're mandatory; there are no differences beyond, you have to do them.

Okay, so mandatory abilities and "public optional abilities" work the same, but now you've distinguished "public optional abilities" from "secret optional abilities" i.e., Reactions. You say about Reactions: "as other abilities resolve, you keep having the option of doing the Reaction until you decide not to do anything else." That sounds meaningfully different from mandatory abilities and public optional abilities, where you don't keep having the option to do it as things from other players resolve.

If you classify Urchin and Crop Rotation as public optional abilities, then it's fine to say Crop Rotation works just like Hireling. However, I wouldn't say that Crop Rotation or Urchin's rules are identical to that of Reactions like Moat, because Moat needs that extra set of rules talking about how to can choose to react with it after someone else resolves something that happens "at the same time", and that set of rules never applies to mandatory or public optional abilities like Crop Rotation or Urchin.
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Donald X.

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Re: Phrasing the new Reaction timing rule
« Reply #27 on: October 23, 2019, 01:34:38 pm »
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Tunnel and Faithful Hound are non-secret Reactions, but currently they can only trigger for one player.

The part about "keeping having the option of doing the Reaction until you decide not to do anything else" is only really relevant for multiple players. When it's just you, you have that option for everything, not just Reactions. As such, I think that it's a bit confusing to have that there. It fits better in the paragraph about multiple players.
I added mention of Tunnel and Faithful Hound, thanks. I'm leaving the rest of it as it seems to have covered things. Obv. you will personally explain it however you most like.
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Donald X.

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Re: Phrasing the new Reaction timing rule
« Reply #28 on: October 23, 2019, 01:35:35 pm »
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Essentially, optional abilities now have a fundamentally different timing than mandatory ones even when they happen "at the same time".
For me they aren't at all different. The different thing about mandatory things is that they're mandatory; there are no differences beyond, you have to do them.

Okay, so mandatory abilities and "public optional abilities" work the same, but now you've distinguished "public optional abilities" from "secret optional abilities" i.e., Reactions. You say about Reactions: "as other abilities resolve, you keep having the option of doing the Reaction until you decide not to do anything else." That sounds meaningfully different from mandatory abilities and public optional abilities, where you don't keep having the option to do it as things from other players resolve.

If you classify Urchin and Crop Rotation as public optional abilities, then it's fine to say Crop Rotation works just like Hireling. However, I wouldn't say that Crop Rotation or Urchin's rules are identical to that of Reactions like Moat, because Moat needs that extra set of rules talking about how to can choose to react with it after someone else resolves something that happens "at the same time", and that set of rules never applies to mandatory or public optional abilities like Crop Rotation or Urchin.
Having worked out how to say exactly how they work, Moat is different in all the ways it is different, yes.
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Jeebus

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Re: Phrasing the new Reaction timing rule
« Reply #29 on: January 22, 2020, 09:34:23 pm »
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Finally looking at this... thing again.

This is my current version:

When there are several abilities at the same time, first the current player resolves all their abilities, and then each player in turn does. Each player may resolve their abilities in any order.

However, you can still resolve a *Reaction* after a player who is after you in turn order resolved an ability. Technically this means that each time a player resolves an ability (Reaction or otherwise), you start back with the current player, who again gets to use a Reaction. (Remember that you can use a Reaction in your hand several times.) When a player doesn't resolve anything (Reactions or otherwise), the next player in turn order gets to resolve an ability.
(If you choose to not use a Reaction because you want to see what the others do first, you risk that nobody else does anything and you don't get the opportunity to use it.)


The clarification about new mandatory abilities appearing in the window will go in another section, which already deals with that. But I will probably leave it out for now, since it's all theoretical with current cards.

Jeebus

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Re: Phrasing the new Reaction timing rule
« Reply #30 on: January 23, 2020, 06:39:20 pm »
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New version, now we're getting closer:

When there are several abilities at the same time, first the current player resolves their abilities, and then each player in turn does.

However, you get a new chance to resolve a *Reaction* whenever a player after you resolves an ability: You could use a Reaction again (if it's still in your hand) or use one that you didn't use before.

Technically this means that each time a player resolves an ability (Reaction or otherwise), you start back with the first player, who again gets to use a Reaction. When a player doesn't resolve anything (Reactions or otherwise), continue with the next player in turn order. (If you choose to not use a Reaction because you want to see what the others do first, you risk that nobody else does anything and you don't get the opportunity to use it.)


***
The important thing that is (hopefully) clarified here, which I don't think Donald's version did very well, is the following:
Player B has a mandatory and a Reaction, and does the Reaction. Now player A can do a Reaction - before player B does their mandatory. But player C cannot do a Reaction now; player B has to first do their mandatory.
« Last Edit: January 23, 2020, 08:15:56 pm by Jeebus »
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