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Author Topic: Gardens/Silk Roads/Vineyards loses to... Library?  (Read 3238 times)

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Robz888

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Gardens/Silk Roads/Vineyards loses to... Library?
« on: March 16, 2012, 08:46:11 pm »
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This one totally mystified me: http://dominion.isotropic.org/gamelog/201203/16/game-20120316-173123-82f2f329.html

cards in supply: Chapel, Develop, Fishing Village, Gardens, Hamlet, Library, Lighthouse, Moneylender, Potion, Silk Road, and Vineyard

I said to myself that this was a textbook case for an alt-VP game. Vineyards will love Hamlets/Lighthouses/Fishing Villages. Gardens will love all those extra buys from Hamlets. And Silk Roads will love the Gardens and the Vineyards. Great! I opened Fishing Village/Hamlet, picked up a single Potion, and started grabbing Gardens at $4, FVs at $3, Hamlets at $2, Coppers at $0, and Vineyard with $P. I planned to switch over to Silk Roads near the end, but thought a 3-piles ending might happen first.

My opponent opens with Chapel, and I thought he was pretty much dead right there. It certainly meant he was leaving Gardens and Silk Roads alone, and I didn't see any amazing engine that would get 8 Provinces quickly. I was totally, laughably wrong.

With just 2 Fishing Villages, 1 Chapel, 1 Library, and 1 Gold, my opponent totally crushed me, buying all 8 Provinces in 19 turns. He bought one every turn, turns 9-14, and then again on 17 and 19. I wasn't even close, since none of my Green cards had "leveled up" yet.

Clearly, I misjudged this one. What do you think? Was my plan doomed from the start? Unusual luck for my opponent? Library+Chapel+FV a secret unstoppable combo? (And hats off to my opponent, Strombo. I don't think he/she will be a level 21 for very much longer...)
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WanderingWinder

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Re: Gardens/Silk Roads/Vineyards loses to... Library?
« Reply #1 on: March 16, 2012, 09:27:56 pm »
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Well, hamlet goes really really well with library. It's not too surprising to me that chapel+FV+Hamlet+'brary can get everything, fast.

RisingJaguar

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Re: Gardens/Silk Roads/Vineyards loses to... Library?
« Reply #2 on: March 16, 2012, 10:00:23 pm »
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Probably could've built a similar engine too, would've helped the vineyards a lot.  Silkroad is a lot better than gardens here.  Imagine if all of those $4 buys were silkroads, they'd be the same without all those annoying coppers either.  Going route even allows you to buy a chapel, doesn't hinder silkroads or vineyards AT ALL :)

But yes Library is the star here, provinces or Alt-VP can be either way really. 
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Epoch

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Re: Gardens/Silk Roads/Vineyards loses to... Library?
« Reply #3 on: March 17, 2012, 11:53:56 am »
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Well, hamlet goes really really well with library. It's not too surprising to me that chapel+FV+Hamlet+'brary can get everything, fast.

Hamlet and Fishing Village!  That's some sick drawing with Library.
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Robz888

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Re: Gardens/Silk Roads/Vineyards loses to... Library?
« Reply #4 on: March 17, 2012, 02:15:14 pm »
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Sure. I see now that Library was a lot better here than I realized, and I should have ignored Gardens, probably.

My opponent though, did NOT buy any Hamlets. Just 2 FVs, 1 Gold, 3 Silvers, 1 Chapel, 1 Library... and all the Provinces. That was my shock, that such a simple engine could completely clean up.
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Epoch

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Re: Gardens/Silk Roads/Vineyards loses to... Library?
« Reply #5 on: March 17, 2012, 09:14:37 pm »
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Hmmm.  I tried a couple of sample games with FV + Chapel + Library, and it's actually really fast.  I didn't pull any 8 Province in 19 turn games, but I did 20 and 23 turns, and I'm not going to say that I didn't make any mistakes, either.
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mnavratil

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Re: Gardens/Silk Roads/Vineyards loses to... Library?
« Reply #6 on: March 19, 2012, 10:02:36 am »
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Yeah, FV/Chapel/Library was really fast in my solo games too. It mostly seemed to bog down around the last one or two provinces, and it's hard to say when to buy another Library versus another Gold when you don't quite reach $8. It also can stall out pretty badly if you don't get a Fishing Village in play the previous turn.
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Jorbles

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Re: Gardens/Silk Roads/Vineyards loses to... Library?
« Reply #7 on: March 19, 2012, 07:25:57 pm »
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On a sidenote, if you hadn't vetoed the Noble Brigand it would have been able to really slow his deck down even if you only had one or two of them. He only had 4 treasure cards. Losing his only Gold would have been a huge setback and losing one of his Silvers would have slowed him down a turn or two. Seeing this far ahead involves predicting your opponent's game plan at a level higher than I play at, but leaving in a Noble Brigand and vetoing say Moneylender or Develop instead (two cards you are unlikely to use with your strategy)* would have given you some options, and with what you were planning to do it wouldn't have helped your opponent to get an NB.

*Develop actually seems to have some useful applications here especially with Vineyards in play, but it's tough to put together.
« Last Edit: March 19, 2012, 07:29:15 pm by Jorbles »
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Robz888

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Re: Gardens/Silk Roads/Vineyards loses to... Library?
« Reply #8 on: March 19, 2012, 07:31:36 pm »
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Also on a sidenote, if you hadn't vetoed the Noble Brigand it would have been able to really slow his deck down even if you only had one or two of them. He only had 4 treasure cards. Losing his only Gold would have been a huge setback and losing one of his Silvers would have slowed him down a turn or two. Seeing this far ahead involves predicting your opponent's game plan at a level higher than I play at, but leaving in a Noble Brigand and vetoing say Moneylender or Develop instead (two cards you are unlikely to use with your strategy)* would have given you some options.

*Develop actually seems to have some useful applications here especially with Vineyards in play, but it's tough to put together.

Thinking about it now, you're absolutely right.

I vetoed Noble Brigand because I was already planning on filling my deck with Green cards early on, and I was fearful that my opponent could use the Brigand to hurt my deck even more. But that was a big mistake; for some reason, I always think that Thief and Noble Brigand are synonymous, when they aren't. An opponent who used Brigand on me would have just given me Coppers, or nothing, which wouldn't have hurt me at all. And I could have really hurt him by buying the Brigand.
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