Dominion Strategy Forum

Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length
Pages: [1]

Author Topic: Replacement for Royal Seal in Prosperity  (Read 2227 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

JW

  • Jester
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 882
  • Shuffle iT Username: JW
  • Respect: +1615
    • View Profile
Replacement for Royal Seal in Prosperity
« on: September 26, 2019, 12:46:39 pm »
+1

Scribe’s Seal
$4
Treasure
Produces $2
While this is in play, when you gain an Action card, you may put that card onto your deck.
 
Royal Seal’s effect is useful, but at $5 it faces too much competition.  You’d rather get that key $5 than get Royal Seal and hope its effect lets you topdeck that key $5 later.  I envisioned a replacement for Royal Seal that costs $4, but hopefully isn’t going to be an auto-buy (or have the pile empty too often).  Another consideration in making Silver with a benefit for $4 is to avoid powering up treasure heavy strategies too much, which, like Patron, this should accomplish.

I know that Donald X. hasn't even revised Seaside yet, but I can dream that we'll someday get revised versions of Seaside and Prosperity as well. Base 2e and Intrigue 2e are some of my favorite Dominion sets. If only Harbinger had cost $2!

Original version:
(Same as current)
Logged

anordinaryman

  • Explorer
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 302
  • Respect: +368
    • View Profile
Re: Replacement for Royal Seal in Prosperity
« Reply #1 on: September 26, 2019, 01:12:11 pm »
+1

You’ll notice Dominion doesn’t do silver+ for 4$. Very often when you have 3$, you also have 4$. It’s often enough that silver+ for 4$ essentially makes silver never bought. That’s the reason that dominion does silver++ for 5$. It doesn’t make silver look as horrible since silver is much cheaper.

Does that make sense?
Ways around this is making your the “silver”+ terminal. You could also try a conditional and weaken the +2$  in your treasure, like, if you have an even number of this in play this is worth +3$ , otherwise +1$
« Last Edit: September 26, 2019, 01:50:24 pm by anordinaryman »
Logged

GendoIkari

  • Adventurer
  • ******
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 9402
  • Respect: +10405
    • View Profile
Re: Replacement for Royal Seal in Prosperity
« Reply #2 on: September 26, 2019, 01:39:55 pm »
+3

I don't think limiting it to actions is enough of a difference to warrant a price decrease. Granted Royal Seal is a weak , but if your card is balanced at , then so is Royal Seal. The vast majority of times that you use Royal Seal's ability, it would be on an Action card anyway. You wouldn't use it on Victory cards, and often using it on Treasures would be a bad idea as well, as you would rather draw into your treasures near the end of your turn instead of top-decking them.
Logged
Check out my F.DS extension for Chrome! Card links; Dominion icons, and maybe more! http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=13363.0

Thread for Firefox version:
http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=16305.0

Gazbag

  • Minion
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 735
  • Shuffle iT Username: Gazbag
  • Respect: +1003
    • View Profile
Re: Replacement for Royal Seal in Prosperity
« Reply #3 on: September 26, 2019, 02:02:20 pm »
+2

Prosperity already has a perfectly functioning topdecking card in Watchtower so I don't think Royal Seal needs a direct replacement. Some more uses for the VP tokens or the coin tokens that come with Trade Route would be nice (although Trade Route is a good candidate for removal too).
Logged

Kudasai

  • Witch
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 470
  • Respect: +287
    • View Profile
Re: Replacement for Royal Seal in Prosperity
« Reply #4 on: September 26, 2019, 03:42:02 pm »
0

I'd say most "bad" cards are just situational and more geared towards Victory card rushes versus engine building. If you can identify when to go for such cards you can really punish players who try and build.
Logged

JW

  • Jester
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 882
  • Shuffle iT Username: JW
  • Respect: +1615
    • View Profile
Re: Replacement for Royal Seal in Prosperity
« Reply #5 on: September 26, 2019, 04:51:50 pm »
+2

I don't think limiting it to actions is enough of a difference to warrant a price decrease. Granted Royal Seal is a weak , but if your card is balanced at , then so is Royal Seal. The vast majority of times that you use Royal Seal's ability, it would be on an Action card anyway. You wouldn't use it on Victory cards, and often using it on Treasures would be a bad idea as well, as you would rather draw into your treasures near the end of your turn instead of top-decking them.

Regardless of whether Royal Seal is balanced at $4, we're not going to get a reprint of Prosperity that changes its cost to $4.  Similarly, we're not going to get a combination Woodcutter-Chancellor at $3, even though that would certainly be balanced.   So the question is more whether this card is too strong at $4 and not what that says about Royal Seal.

One possibility for weakening this card is to limit it to once a turn: Once this turn, when you gain an Action card, you may put that card onto your deck.
Logged

popsofctown

  • Adventurer
  • ******
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 5477
  • Respect: +2852
    • View Profile
Re: Replacement for Royal Seal in Prosperity
« Reply #6 on: September 26, 2019, 07:56:55 pm »
0

Strictly better than silver at 4$ is icky.
Logged

segura

  • Saboteur
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1459
  • Respect: +968
    • View Profile
Re: Replacement for Royal Seal in Prosperity
« Reply #7 on: September 27, 2019, 01:02:19 am »
+2

Strictly better than silver at 4$ is icky.
Before Patron that was indeed the case but after Patron, Royal Seal could easily be a $4.
Logged

popsofctown

  • Adventurer
  • ******
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 5477
  • Respect: +2852
    • View Profile
Re: Replacement for Royal Seal in Prosperity
« Reply #8 on: September 27, 2019, 01:19:01 am »
0

Patron is only strictly better than Silver when no dead draw is available.
If you want to make this an action with "+1 Action, +2$, while this is in play, when you gain a card, put it on top of your deck," that seems ok.
Logged

pubby

  • Minion
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 548
  • Respect: +1042
    • View Profile
Re: Replacement for Royal Seal in Prosperity
« Reply #9 on: September 27, 2019, 02:45:52 am »
+7

If the topdecking was mandatory it wouldn't be strictly better than silver.
Logged

GendoIkari

  • Adventurer
  • ******
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 9402
  • Respect: +10405
    • View Profile
Re: Replacement for Royal Seal in Prosperity
« Reply #10 on: September 27, 2019, 09:34:38 am »
+2

If the topdecking was mandatory it wouldn't be strictly better than silver.

That actually feels like an interesting card.
Logged
Check out my F.DS extension for Chrome! Card links; Dominion icons, and maybe more! http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=13363.0

Thread for Firefox version:
http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=16305.0

segura

  • Saboteur
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1459
  • Respect: +968
    • View Profile
Re: Replacement for Royal Seal in Prosperity
« Reply #11 on: September 27, 2019, 12:10:24 pm »
+1

Patron is only strictly better than Silver when no dead draw is available.
If you want to make this an action with "+1 Action, +2$, while this is in play, when you gain a card, put it on top of your deck," that seems ok.
I disagree. Action Silver is on average better than Silver. See Candlestick Maker vs Ducat.
Logged

popsofctown

  • Adventurer
  • ******
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 5477
  • Respect: +2852
    • View Profile
Re: Replacement for Royal Seal in Prosperity
« Reply #12 on: September 27, 2019, 04:39:51 pm »
0

pubby's card seems good
Logged

King Leon

  • Witch
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 477
  • Respect: +404
    • View Profile
Re: Replacement for Royal Seal in Prosperity
« Reply #13 on: September 29, 2019, 07:33:56 pm »
0

You’ll notice Dominion doesn’t do silver+ for 4$. Very often when you have 3$, you also have 4$. It’s often enough that silver+ for 4$ essentially makes silver never bought. That’s the reason that dominion does silver++ for 5$. It doesn’t make silver look as horrible since silver is much cheaper.

That is not true anymore. Patron is a Silver+ for $4 and Spices is an edge case. It's a Silver+ for $5 with 2 Coffers “cashback”.
Logged

NoMoreFun

  • Torturer
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1848
  • Respect: +1729
    • View Profile
Re: Replacement for Royal Seal in Prosperity
« Reply #14 on: September 30, 2019, 02:28:41 am »
+1

Event - $P
+1 Buy, +$2
When you gain a card this turn, put it onto your deck
Logged

artless

  • Ambassador
  • ***
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 32
  • Respect: +38
    • View Profile
Re: Replacement for Royal Seal in Prosperity
« Reply #15 on: October 01, 2019, 11:30:59 pm »
0

I'd change Royal Seal into:

4 cost
+2 $
While this is in play, when you gain a card, you must put that card on top of your deck.

Cheaper but backfires when you start greening.
Logged
Pages: [1]
 

Page created in 0.07 seconds with 21 queries.