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Author Topic: Dominion 2019 Errata and Rules Tweaks  (Read 89555 times)

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Donald X.

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Re: Dominion 2019 Errata and Rules Tweaks
« Reply #50 on: September 25, 2019, 03:34:53 pm »
0

Additionally, when you are told to get a card from your discard pile, you can look through it to get the card. That's just implicit. You don't have to just look at the top couple of cards, you can look through the whole discard pile.
Will the online implementation let us look through our discard pile whenever this occurs, for those of us weak at card-counting?

Will it do so even when it is in fact just the top card that needs to move?
I don't know, but ideally, since them's the rules.
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scolapasta

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Re: Dominion 2019 Errata and Rules Tweaks
« Reply #51 on: September 25, 2019, 04:39:05 pm »
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you BoM a TR playing Durations, then Bonfire the Durations. the BoM still stay in play until the Durations finish all effects, right?
Bonfire messes up tracking and has not been fixed (the fix would be adding "non-duration," which still doesn't fix all cases, e.g. you can Bonfire the Throne that played a Duration) (edit: no the fix is what dbclick said, the Improve trick of seeing if the card would be discarded) (or I mean, just limit it to Coppers). If you play a Duration and Bonfire it, you still get the effect. If you Throne a Duration and Bonfire the Duration, the Throne goes away, remember that rule is that it stays out as long as the Duration, and the Duration is gone. But the effect still happens. The effect also still happens if you Bonfire both of them or just the Throne. If you BoM a Throne playing Durations, and Bonfire the Durations, the Throne wouldn't stay out, so BoM doesn't either. Anyway as noted, the Bonfire scenarios where tracking is messed up do not actually happen. We can construct a scenario where you're Bonfiring Hirelings to Graverobber them or whatever, but it's just not a thing.

So, (first noting that this in not a real concern, but only to sate my desire of understanding all edge cases properly), I had thought Bonfiring a TRed Hireling left the TR out:

(from https://boardgamegeek.com/thread/1367747/hireling-and-champion-duration-if-losttrashed-play)

Quote
Yes, if you Throne Room etc. a Hireling and somehow the Hireling leaves play, the Throne still stays in play. And if something makes the Throne leave play, that still doesn't stop anything from happening every turn.

Of course that's from 2015, so it's quite likely this was overturned in some other hard to find thread...
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Donald X.

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Re: Dominion 2019 Errata and Rules Tweaks
« Reply #52 on: September 25, 2019, 06:26:32 pm »
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you BoM a TR playing Durations, then Bonfire the Durations. the BoM still stay in play until the Durations finish all effects, right?
Bonfire messes up tracking and has not been fixed (the fix would be adding "non-duration," which still doesn't fix all cases, e.g. you can Bonfire the Throne that played a Duration) (edit: no the fix is what dbclick said, the Improve trick of seeing if the card would be discarded) (or I mean, just limit it to Coppers). If you play a Duration and Bonfire it, you still get the effect. If you Throne a Duration and Bonfire the Duration, the Throne goes away, remember that rule is that it stays out as long as the Duration, and the Duration is gone. But the effect still happens. The effect also still happens if you Bonfire both of them or just the Throne. If you BoM a Throne playing Durations, and Bonfire the Durations, the Throne wouldn't stay out, so BoM doesn't either. Anyway as noted, the Bonfire scenarios where tracking is messed up do not actually happen. We can construct a scenario where you're Bonfiring Hirelings to Graverobber them or whatever, but it's just not a thing.

So, (first noting that this in not a real concern, but only to sate my desire of understanding all edge cases properly), I had thought Bonfiring a TRed Hireling left the TR out:

(from https://boardgamegeek.com/thread/1367747/hireling-and-champion-duration-if-losttrashed-play)

Quote
Yes, if you Throne Room etc. a Hireling and somehow the Hireling leaves play, the Throne still stays in play. And if something makes the Throne leave play, that still doesn't stop anything from happening every turn.

Of course that's from 2015, so it's quite likely this was overturned in some other hard to find thread...
Yes, the rule for throne-duration changed a few years ago. Now throne just looks for the duration card in play.
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NoMoreFun

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Re: Dominion 2019 Errata and Rules Tweaks
« Reply #53 on: September 25, 2019, 06:27:43 pm »
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Will cards that involve the discard pile and cost reduction be changed to  remove extraneous words?
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crj

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Re: Dominion 2019 Errata and Rules Tweaks
« Reply #54 on: September 25, 2019, 07:04:32 pm »
+1

By a close reading of these new rules, it seems to me that Ferry on Wine Merchant, followed by playing Band of Misfits and choosing Wine Merchant has suddenly become very nifty, because you get the +$4,+1Buy but the Band of Misfits never goes on your Tavern mat, and gets cleared up as normal the turn you play it?
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majiponi

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Re: Dominion 2019 Errata and Rules Tweaks
« Reply #55 on: September 25, 2019, 07:10:16 pm »
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I inherited Haunted Woods.
I played Estate.
Sally bought a Province.
Doesn't Sally have to put her hands onto her deck, does she?
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NoMoreFun

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Re: Dominion 2019 Errata and Rules Tweaks
« Reply #56 on: September 25, 2019, 07:54:33 pm »
+3

I inherited Haunted Woods.
I played Estate.
Sally bought a Province.
Doesn't Sally have to put her hands onto her deck, does she?

 Haunted Woods' attack is all in the text; it's not a "while this is in play" effect.
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Donald X.

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Re: Dominion 2019 Errata and Rules Tweaks
« Reply #57 on: September 25, 2019, 09:41:48 pm »
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Will cards that involve the discard pile and cost reduction be changed to  remove extraneous words?
Where possible. Getting a card from the discard pile can't always save words; e.g. Harbinger is optional, you get to look before deciding to do it, so we have to say, look.
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Donald X.

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Re: Dominion 2019 Errata and Rules Tweaks
« Reply #58 on: September 25, 2019, 09:42:12 pm »
+2

By a close reading of these new rules, it seems to me that Ferry on Wine Merchant, followed by playing Band of Misfits and choosing Wine Merchant has suddenly become very nifty, because you get the +$4,+1Buy but the Band of Misfits never goes on your Tavern mat, and gets cleared up as normal the turn you play it?
Yes that all works.
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Donald X.

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Re: Dominion 2019 Errata and Rules Tweaks
« Reply #59 on: September 25, 2019, 09:42:43 pm »
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I inherited Haunted Woods.
I played Estate.
Sally bought a Province.
Doesn't Sally have to put her hands onto her deck, does she?

 Haunted Woods' attack is all in the text; it's not a "while this is in play" effect.
Correct. Haunted Woods works fine as an inherited card (when you can manage it).
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mxdata

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Re: Dominion 2019 Errata and Rules Tweaks
« Reply #60 on: September 26, 2019, 07:49:55 pm »
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I have a question about the new rules as they relate to Band of Misfits.  So, I understand that it can't trash itself if it plays things like Mining Village, but what about when it plays Sir Martin?  If I use BoM to play Sir Martin, and it trashes another player's knight, what happens?  Does my BoM get trashed, or does Sir Martin get trashed from the supply, or is nothing trashed?
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mxdata

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Re: Dominion 2019 Errata and Rules Tweaks
« Reply #61 on: September 26, 2019, 07:56:30 pm »
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Also, what about using BoM to play a Hermit?  In the old rules, if you played BoM as a Hermit, and bought nothing, it would trash itself and you'd get a Madman.  But in the new rules, a BoM playing a Hermit cannot trash itself, but since the Hermit does not include an "if you do" clause, does that mean that if you used BoM to play Hermit and bought nothing, you'd get a Madman without trashing anything?
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hhelibebcnofnena

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Re: Dominion 2019 Errata and Rules Tweaks
« Reply #62 on: September 26, 2019, 08:19:57 pm »
+1

I have a question about the new rules as they relate to Band of Misfits.  So, I understand that it can't trash itself if it plays things like Mining Village, but what about when it plays Sir Martin?  If I use BoM to play Sir Martin, and it trashes another player's knight, what happens?  Does my BoM get trashed, or does Sir Martin get trashed from the supply, or is nothing trashed?

Nothing is trashed.

Also, what about using BoM to play a Hermit?  In the old rules, if you played BoM as a Hermit, and bought nothing, it would trash itself and you'd get a Madman.  But in the new rules, a BoM playing a Hermit cannot trash itself, but since the Hermit does not include an "if you do" clause, does that mean that if you used BoM to play Hermit and bought nothing, you'd get a Madman without trashing anything?

Nothing gets trashed, and no Madman is gained, because the trigger is "when you discard this from play". The Hermit is left in the supply when played, so it doesn't get discarded.
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mxdata

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Re: Dominion 2019 Errata and Rules Tweaks
« Reply #63 on: September 27, 2019, 01:08:06 am »
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Nothing gets trashed, and no Madman is gained, because the trigger is "when you discard this from play". The Hermit is left in the supply when played, so it doesn't get discarded.

Oh, of course!  That makes perfect sense, I should've realized that.  Thanks!
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Dominionaer

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Re: Dominion 2019 Errata and Rules Tweaks
« Reply #64 on: September 27, 2019, 05:30:57 am »
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Question: Does Inheriting something change the type of the Estate pile to Action - Victory during your turns as well (which has implications for other events and Teacher, etc.)? I don't think so, but just wanted to verify.
No. Normally you go by the randomizer card. Estate once had one for some reason and now does not. But, the "pile" is still always the printed Estate.

I believe dbclick stumbled over the omitted "your" as i did:  What about other players Estates? Does Rabble discard them, if i inherited something?
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dz

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Re: Dominion 2019 Errata and Rules Tweaks
« Reply #65 on: September 27, 2019, 07:18:30 am »
+1

Question: Does Inheriting something change the type of the Estate pile to Action - Victory during your turns as well (which has implications for other events and Teacher, etc.)? I don't think so, but just wanted to verify.
No. Normally you go by the randomizer card. Estate once had one for some reason and now does not. But, the "pile" is still always the printed Estate.

I believe dbclick stumbled over the omitted "your" as i did:  What about other players Estates? Does Rabble discard them, if i inherited something?

Yes.
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hhelibebcnofnena

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Re: Dominion 2019 Errata and Rules Tweaks
« Reply #66 on: September 27, 2019, 08:24:32 am »
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Question: Does Inheriting something change the type of the Estate pile to Action - Victory during your turns as well (which has implications for other events and Teacher, etc.)? I don't think so, but just wanted to verify.
No. Normally you go by the randomizer card. Estate once had one for some reason and now does not. But, the "pile" is still always the printed Estate.

I believe dbclick stumbled over the omitted "your" as i did:  What about other players Estates? Does Rabble discard them, if i inherited something?

All Estate cards are Action-Victory, including in the supply. The Estate pile itself, however, is still only a Victory pile, if I've interpreted that correctly.
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phyphor

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Re: Dominion 2019 Errata and Rules Tweaks
« Reply #67 on: September 27, 2019, 12:13:35 pm »
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Since Estates are now actions in the supply it opens up the inifnite Captain combos:

1. Reduce the cost of Captain
2. Inherit Captain
3. Play Estate as Captain
4. Play Captain as Estate
5. Goto 3.

Except:

Question: Does Inheriting something change the type of the Estate pile to Action - Victory during your turns as well (which has implications for other events and Teacher, etc.)? I don't think so, but just wanted to verify.
No. Normally you go by the randomizer card. Estate once had one for some reason and now does not. But, the "pile" is still always the printed Estate.

And:

All Estate cards are Action-Victory, including in the supply. The Estate pile itself, however, is still only a Victory pile, if I've interpreted that correctly.

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LastFootnote

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Re: Dominion 2019 Errata and Rules Tweaks
« Reply #68 on: September 27, 2019, 12:27:20 pm »
+3

But for Captain, it's the type of the card that matters, not the type of the pile. Most things that care about pile types are effects that put tokens on piles. You can't use Lost Arts to put your +1 Action token on the Estate pile, even if you've Inherited Estates.
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urza

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Re: Dominion 2019 Errata and Rules Tweaks
« Reply #69 on: September 27, 2019, 12:32:54 pm »
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It's possible for two copies of a card to have different abilities. This causes problems, the worst (extremely exotic) situation being, you play a card and don't actually know what it should do.
I'm curious what exactly this means and what the specific situation is that causes it to happen.  Is there some way to have two cards competing to apply becomes-a-copy effects to a single card?
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Cave-o-sapien

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Re: Dominion 2019 Errata and Rules Tweaks
« Reply #70 on: September 27, 2019, 12:54:10 pm »
+3

It's possible for two copies of a card to have different abilities. This causes problems, the worst (extremely exotic) situation being, you play a card and don't actually know what it should do.
I'm curious what exactly this means and what the specific situation is that causes it to happen.  Is there some way to have two cards competing to apply becomes-a-copy effects to a single card?

It's described in detail elsewhere, but the gist of it is not knowing who an Estate belongs to, i.e. which of these Estates is my Inherited one and which is yours?

http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=19000.msg770358#msg770358
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Jeebus

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Re: Dominion 2019 Errata and Rules Tweaks
« Reply #71 on: September 27, 2019, 01:37:33 pm »
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Oh boy, huge changes in rules.

As others have noted, Death Cart, Embargo and Pillage are changed, but there are many others that were untouched. Previously those three cards worked normally with BoM/Overlord/Inheritance, and were super-good with Necromancer/Captain. To avoid too much super-goodness, Donald changed them, so now they are useless with BoM/Overlord/Inheritance AND with Necromancer/Captain (except Death Cart is gimped but not useless).

The cards that were untouched: Acting Troupe, Farmers' Market, Feast, Knights, Tragic Hero, Wine Merchant, Encampment, Experiment, Island. These are all super-good with BoM/Overlord/Inheritance now (except Island) - in addition to with Necromancer/Captain.

Some cards used to be normal with Bom/Overlord/Inheritance, and useless with Necro/Captain, but are now useless with all: Mining Village, Pixie, Treasure Map, Urchin, Page, Peasant, Distant Lands, Prince (only gimped: Raze, Small Castle)
(Obv. Small Castle can't be played with Inheritance, and Prince requires a lot of cost reduction)

EDIT: Knights were in the wrong list!
EDIT2: Distant Lands was always useless with these cards.
« Last Edit: September 27, 2019, 02:32:13 pm by Jeebus »
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Donald X.

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Re: Dominion 2019 Errata and Rules Tweaks
« Reply #72 on: September 27, 2019, 01:38:24 pm »
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I have a question about the new rules as they relate to Band of Misfits.  So, I understand that it can't trash itself if it plays things like Mining Village, but what about when it plays Sir Martin?  If I use BoM to play Sir Martin, and it trashes another player's knight, what happens?  Does my BoM get trashed, or does Sir Martin get trashed from the supply, or is nothing trashed?
Your BoM doesn't get trashed; it used to get trashed because it became the card, and now it doesn't become the card, it's just a bystander.

Sir Martin doesn't get trashed from the supply; this is because it expects to find itself in play instead. This is from the stop-moving rule.

Hermit isn't discarded and so that ability doesn't trigger; and hey someone else answered these correctly already.
« Last Edit: September 27, 2019, 01:41:53 pm by Donald X. »
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Jeebus

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Re: Dominion 2019 Errata and Rules Tweaks
« Reply #73 on: September 27, 2019, 01:38:33 pm »
+1

Looking back at the changes today, the one thing I feel like, why did I do that, is renaming "lose track" to "stop moving." The people who know "lose track" by name don't get anything out of this, and when we talk about "where a card expects to be," saying "it loses track" is still natural, even though everybody knows where the card is.

Why can't you change it back to "lose track"? Have you printed this somewhere?

Jeebus

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Re: Dominion 2019 Errata and Rules Tweaks
« Reply #74 on: September 27, 2019, 01:42:34 pm »
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About the new "stop-moving" rules. Read literally, since it doesn't mention keeping or losing track, it now seems that a card that is moved and then put back, CAN be moved. This would be a change from the old lose-track rule. For instance Prince a Duplicate; start of turn it goes to the Tavern, then call it that same turn, Prince sets it aside.
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