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Author Topic: Sea Hag replacement for Seaside  (Read 1670 times)

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JW

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Sea Hag replacement for Seaside
« on: September 24, 2019, 11:12:17 am »
+1

Ocean Hag
Action - Duration - Attack
$5
Each other player gains a Curse. At the start of your next turn, you may trash a non-Victory card from your hand, for +1 Card.
 
Donald X has commented that there are two reasons that if he ever updates Seaside, he’d likely replace Sea Hag with a different cursing attack.  First, players don’t like attacks that don’t provide any benefit. Second, Seaside has two <$5 cards that can junk your opponent (Ambassador), which is too many, and Ambassador is more unique.
 
Here I’ve envisioned its replacement.  The Ocean Hag happens to be a perfect counter to a Sea Hag because it can trash curses from Sea Hag right away, even though this wouldn't matter much in practice as someone probably wouldn't own both.  Like Ambassador, it can give junk to your opponent while getting rid of yours.  But, unlike Ambassador, the fact that it’s a $5 duration and gives junk that runs out (Curses) should keep it from being too powerful.

Dominion doesn't have trashers limited to non-Victory cards.  That's probably because, unless a junker is present, the most commonly trashed cards are Treasures and Victory cards, so saying Treasure is simpler.  Because Ocean Hag is a junker, it's a great candidate to be limited to non-Victory cards. This also should keep the power level of the card in check, relative to the original.
 
Original version:
Ocean Hag
Action - Duration - Attack
$5
Each other player gains a Curse. At the start of your next turn, you may trash a card from your hand, for +1 Card.

« Last Edit: January 23, 2020, 08:12:47 pm by JW »
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estwdjhn

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Re: Sea Hag replacement for Seaside
« Reply #1 on: September 24, 2019, 11:52:21 am »
+2

Imho OP, and swingy.

The 5 price point isn't good on very dominant cards - it gifts the game to whoever gets the shuffle luck to hit 5 first.

At the extreme, imagine starting 5-2 with this on the board.
You get to trash your junk while your luckless opponent struggles to absorb all the junk you keep hurling at him.
Unless there is a cheap powerful thrasher in the kingdom, there will be no coming back.




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JW

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Re: Sea Hag replacement for Seaside
« Reply #2 on: January 23, 2020, 08:16:07 pm »
0

The 5 price point isn't good on very dominant cards - it gifts the game to whoever gets the shuffle luck to hit 5 first.

At the extreme, imagine starting 5-2 with this on the board.

Updated so that it can only trash non-Victory cards, which should help keep the power level in check.  $5 junkers and trashers tend to lead to sizable advantages for players who start 5-2 (which happens 1/6 of the time) as opposed to 4-3. But Dominion has lots of $5 junkers and trashers, because $5 is the most common cost for Actions.  The main question is whether this card is worse in that regard than is typical.
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segura

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Re: Sea Hag replacement for Seaside
« Reply #3 on: January 24, 2020, 08:07:14 am »
0

This is very weak, less unique than Sea Hag (which is by the way totally fine; I guess some people underestimate the harshness of the -1 Card Attack in the absence of sifters or stuff like Lookout) and less versatile than Ambassador which also junks and trashes at the same time. I also fail to see why you would want to nerf a card whose Attack is weaker than Sea Hag via making it a Duration for no obvious reason (it could trash during the very same turn).

Also, this doesn't provide a great benefit. Witch or Mountebank are not great engine pieces but they are better than nothing and you don't mind trashing a $4 card like Sea Hag once it is dead. But a $5 card that becomes borderline useless (most trashers, including Ambassador, do the job better) once the Curses are out is highly dubious.
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grep

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Re: Sea Hag replacement for Seaside
« Reply #4 on: January 24, 2020, 11:50:41 am »
+1

Quote
Ocean Hag
Action - Duration - Attack
$5
Each other player gains a Curse. At the start of your next turn, you may trash a non-Victory card from your hand, for +1 Card.

I would keep the See Hag attack of junking top of the desk. Duration fits to the Seaside theme, but when it's the only trasher, OH becomes too unavoidable. Some non-trashing benefit would be better (e.g. sifting).

"Each other player discards the top card of their deck, then gains a Curse onto their deck. At the beginning of your next turn, you may discard up to 2 cards to draw the same number of cards" - well, it probably resembles Young Witch too much
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Holger

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Re: Sea Hag replacement for Seaside
« Reply #5 on: January 24, 2020, 04:58:44 pm »
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This is very weak, less unique than Sea Hag (which is by the way totally fine; I guess some people underestimate the harshness of the -1 Card Attack in the absence of sifters or stuff like Lookout) and less versatile than Ambassador which also junks and trashes at the same time. I also fail to see why you would want to nerf a card whose Attack is weaker than Sea Hag via making it a Duration for no obvious reason (it could trash during the very same turn).

Also, this doesn't provide a great benefit. Witch or Mountebank are not great engine pieces but they are better than nothing and you don't mind trashing a $4 card like Sea Hag once it is dead. But a $5 card that becomes borderline useless (most trashers, including Ambassador, do the job better) once the Curses are out is highly dubious.

Without the duration nerf, this would be clearly better than Witch IMO:  trashing a non-victory card is in general better than drawing one more card, especially when you have Curses to trash. And once the Curses are gone, you would like most cursers to be durations so you draw them less...

I like the card idea, but I think it's too similar to Ambassador to be in the same set...
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popsofctown

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Re: Sea Hag replacement for Seaside
« Reply #6 on: January 24, 2020, 11:52:31 pm »
0

For doing the simplest Sea Hag replacement possible, my brain intuitively says, 4 bucks: each opponent gains a curse, gain a silver to the top of your deck.
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