Dominion Strategy Forum

Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length
Pages: [1] 2 3 ... 6  All

Author Topic: ThunderDominion Card List Results, 2019  (Read 31796 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

aku_chi

  • Minion
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 622
  • Shuffle iT Username: aku chi
  • Respect: +1435
    • View Profile
ThunderDominion Card List Results, 2019
« on: September 04, 2019, 10:56:30 pm »
+4

For the second year in a row, members of the Dominion Discord are ranked cards in each Dominion set as a community.  For the results of the first ThunderDominion, see this thread.

This year, we used a different process (mostly because it's different, not because it's superior).  We ranked cards using a communal insertion sort.  The process:
  • An expansion is chosen.  Initially, all cards are unsorted.  We sort cards one at a time in the order they appear on http://wiki.dominionstrategy.com/index.php/.  Higher cards are better and lower cards are weaker.
  • For each card, anyone can vote on which place in the sorted list the card belongs.  Voting for a card lasts anywhere from 1 hour to 24 hours depending on how quickly the votes come in, how close the votes are, and my schedule.  In practice, cards receive between 15-35 votes.
  • At the end of the round, the card will be added to the sorted list in the position of the median vote.  Then, we move on to the next card.

2+ months later, we've ranked all of the Dominion cards.

Results
Base
Intrigue
Seaside
Alchemy
Prosperity
Cornucopia
Hinterlands
Dark Ages
Guilds
Adventures
Empires
Nocturne
Renaissance
Promos
Events
Projects
« Last Edit: October 06, 2019, 05:43:36 pm by aku_chi »
Logged

aku_chi

  • Minion
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 622
  • Shuffle iT Username: aku chi
  • Respect: +1435
    • View Profile
Re: ThunderDominion Card List Results, 2019
« Reply #1 on: September 04, 2019, 10:57:24 pm »
+2

Base
1. Chapel
2. Sentry
3. Witch
4.Throne Room
5. Artisan
6. Laboratory
7. Militia
8. Village
9. Smithy
10. Market
11. Remodel
12. Moneylender
13. Festival
14. Council Room
15. Poacher
16. Merchant
17. Bandit
18. Workshop
19. Library
20. Vassal
21. Cellar
22. Moat
23. Gardens
24. Harbinger
25. Mine
26. Bureaucrat
Logged

aku_chi

  • Minion
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 622
  • Shuffle iT Username: aku chi
  • Respect: +1435
    • View Profile
Re: ThunderDominion Card List Results, 2019
« Reply #2 on: September 06, 2019, 08:19:21 am »
+1

Intrigue
1. Masquerade
2. Bridge
3. Torturer
4. Steward
5. Upgrade
6. Minion
7. Replace
8. Swindler
9. Ironworks
10. Lurker
11. Nobles
12. Mining Village
13. Patrol
14. Conspirator
15. Mill
16. Courtier
17. Courtyard
18. Diplomat
19. Wishing Well
20. Pawn
21. Baron
22. Trading Post
23. Secret Passage
24. Shanty Town
25. Duke
26. Harem
Logged

heron

  • Saboteur
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1055
  • Shuffle iT Username: heron
  • Respect: +1183
    • View Profile
Re: ThunderDominion Card List Results, 2019
« Reply #3 on: September 06, 2019, 02:54:44 pm »
0

IMO upgrade should be 3rd. Maybe 2nd. Upgrade >> steward.
Logged

Commodore Chuckles

  • Saboteur
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1284
  • Shuffle iT Username: Commodore Chuckles
  • Respect: +1965
    • View Profile
Re: ThunderDominion Card List Results, 2019
« Reply #4 on: September 06, 2019, 07:40:08 pm »
+2

I continue to be shocked at how underrated Conspirator is. It's a key card on the vast majority of boards.
Logged

segura

  • Torturer
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1521
  • Respect: +1413
    • View Profile
Re: ThunderDominion Card List Results, 2019
« Reply #5 on: September 07, 2019, 01:17:11 am »
0

I continue to be shocked at how underrated Conspirator is. It's a key card on the vast majority of boards.
True that, a $7 card for $4 is pretty sweet.
Logged

Commodore Chuckles

  • Saboteur
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1284
  • Shuffle iT Username: Commodore Chuckles
  • Respect: +1965
    • View Profile
Re: ThunderDominion Card List Results, 2019
« Reply #6 on: September 07, 2019, 09:35:33 am »
0

I continue to be shocked at how underrated Conspirator is. It's a key card on the vast majority of boards.
True that, a $7 card for $4 is pretty sweet.

Well, you also have to buy a bunch of enablers to get the $7 effect, but yeah, as I said, it's generally a key card.
Logged

Awaclus

  • Adventurer
  • ******
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 11804
  • Shuffle iT Username: Awaclus
  • (´。• ω •。`)
  • Respect: +12839
    • View Profile
    • Birds of Necama
Re: ThunderDominion Card List Results, 2019
« Reply #7 on: September 07, 2019, 12:43:33 pm »
+1

I continue to be shocked at how underrated Conspirator is. It's a key card on the vast majority of boards.

Without the stuff that's above it, it's just a $4 Duchess.
Logged
Bomb, Cannon, and many of the Gunpowder cards can strongly effect gameplay, particularly in a destructive way

The YouTube channel where I make musicDownload my band's Creative Commons albums for free

Commodore Chuckles

  • Saboteur
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1284
  • Shuffle iT Username: Commodore Chuckles
  • Respect: +1965
    • View Profile
Re: ThunderDominion Card List Results, 2019
« Reply #8 on: September 07, 2019, 05:46:44 pm »
+1

I continue to be shocked at how underrated Conspirator is. It's a key card on the vast majority of boards.

Without the stuff that's above it, it's just a $4 Duchess.

So? Throne Room is a $4 Confusion without anything else.

Yes, there are some boards where Conspirator can't be activated. Those are not common.
« Last Edit: September 07, 2019, 05:48:35 pm by Commodore Chuckles »
Logged

Awaclus

  • Adventurer
  • ******
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 11804
  • Shuffle iT Username: Awaclus
  • (´。• ω •。`)
  • Respect: +12839
    • View Profile
    • Birds of Necama
Re: ThunderDominion Card List Results, 2019
« Reply #9 on: September 07, 2019, 07:57:00 pm »
+2

So? Throne Room is a $4 Confusion without anything else.

The difference is that Throne Room turns the stuff that's below it into a functional deck.
Logged
Bomb, Cannon, and many of the Gunpowder cards can strongly effect gameplay, particularly in a destructive way

The YouTube channel where I make musicDownload my band's Creative Commons albums for free

Commodore Chuckles

  • Saboteur
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1284
  • Shuffle iT Username: Commodore Chuckles
  • Respect: +1965
    • View Profile
Re: ThunderDominion Card List Results, 2019
« Reply #10 on: September 07, 2019, 11:00:17 pm »
0

So? Throne Room is a $4 Confusion without anything else.

The difference is that Throne Room turns the stuff that's below it into a functional deck.

And what is your definition of a "functional deck"?
Logged

Awaclus

  • Adventurer
  • ******
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 11804
  • Shuffle iT Username: Awaclus
  • (´。• ω •。`)
  • Respect: +12839
    • View Profile
    • Birds of Necama
Re: ThunderDominion Card List Results, 2019
« Reply #11 on: September 08, 2019, 02:58:31 am »
+1

So? Throne Room is a $4 Confusion without anything else.

The difference is that Throne Room turns the stuff that's below it into a functional deck.

And what is your definition of a "functional deck"?

A deck where you can put Conspirator in and it won't just be a Duchess.
Logged
Bomb, Cannon, and many of the Gunpowder cards can strongly effect gameplay, particularly in a destructive way

The YouTube channel where I make musicDownload my band's Creative Commons albums for free

Chris is me

  • Margrave
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 2745
  • Shuffle iT Username: Chris is me
  • What do you want me to say?
  • Respect: +3457
    • View Profile
Re: ThunderDominion Card List Results, 2019
« Reply #12 on: September 08, 2019, 07:55:04 am »
0

I also don't get the Comspirator hype. It's just decent payload. Sure it's cool that it can be sort of a cheap double Peddler or whatever, but this isn't remotely gamebreaking. Throne Room is a Village and payload multiplier and so much more all in one card.
Logged
Twitch channel: http://www.twitch.tv/chrisisme2791

bug me on discord

pm me if you wanna do stuff for the blog

they/them

segura

  • Torturer
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1521
  • Respect: +1413
    • View Profile
Re: ThunderDominion Card List Results, 2019
« Reply #13 on: September 08, 2019, 08:15:52 am »
0

I continue to be shocked at how underrated Conspirator is. It's a key card on the vast majority of boards.

Without the stuff that's above it, it's just a $4 Duchess.
That's like saying that Smithy without a village in an engine is like a dead card (hey, Conspirator is at least a terminal Silver!). There is always a risk of failing to match engine components.


I also don't get the Comspirator hype. It's just decent payload. Sure it's cool that it can be sort of a cheap double Peddler or whatever, but this isn't remotely gamebreaking. Throne Room is a Village and payload multiplier and so much more all in one card.
Nobody is arguing that Conspirator is overpowered or whatever. But to see it below Mining Village, a weak village plus one-shot, is pretty weird as Conspirator is, after Grand Market, the best payload in an engine after Grand Market.

I agree though that Throne Room is better as it is more versatile.
Logged

Awaclus

  • Adventurer
  • ******
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 11804
  • Shuffle iT Username: Awaclus
  • (´。• ω •。`)
  • Respect: +12839
    • View Profile
    • Birds of Necama
Re: ThunderDominion Card List Results, 2019
« Reply #14 on: September 08, 2019, 09:08:03 am »
0

I continue to be shocked at how underrated Conspirator is. It's a key card on the vast majority of boards.

Without the stuff that's above it, it's just a $4 Duchess.
That's like saying that Smithy without a village in an engine is like a dead card (hey, Conspirator is at least a terminal Silver!). There is always a risk of failing to match engine components.

RNG is not the point. The point is that you can remove Conspirator from any kingdom where it's present and the kingdom will play out largely the same, but if you remove Smithy, you might just completely invalidate the strongest strategy.


Conspirator is, after Grand Market, the best payload in an engine after Grand Market.

That's just nowhere near being true. Grand Market is an alright card in the absence of any of the actually powerful engine payloads, but it's by no means a great card. Even Conspirator is better than GM.
Logged
Bomb, Cannon, and many of the Gunpowder cards can strongly effect gameplay, particularly in a destructive way

The YouTube channel where I make musicDownload my band's Creative Commons albums for free

segura

  • Torturer
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1521
  • Respect: +1413
    • View Profile
Re: ThunderDominion Card List Results, 2019
« Reply #15 on: September 08, 2019, 09:20:48 am »
0

The point is that you can remove Conspirator from any kingdom where it's present and the kingdom will play out largely the same,
I disagree.
While you are totally right that draw engines are the normal kind of engine, there are also engines with only cantrips, without cards that net draw.
For example a Kingdom with Village, Market, Workshop, a trasher and Conspirator behaves very differently without Conspirator.
Logged

Awaclus

  • Adventurer
  • ******
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 11804
  • Shuffle iT Username: Awaclus
  • (´。• ω •。`)
  • Respect: +12839
    • View Profile
    • Birds of Necama
Re: ThunderDominion Card List Results, 2019
« Reply #16 on: September 08, 2019, 09:28:45 am »
0

For example a Kingdom with Village, Market, Workshop, a trasher and Conspirator behaves very differently without Conspirator.

And how often does a kingdom with Village, Market, Workshop, a trasher and Conspirator come up again?
Logged
Bomb, Cannon, and many of the Gunpowder cards can strongly effect gameplay, particularly in a destructive way

The YouTube channel where I make musicDownload my band's Creative Commons albums for free

segura

  • Torturer
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1521
  • Respect: +1413
    • View Profile
Re: ThunderDominion Card List Results, 2019
« Reply #17 on: September 08, 2019, 09:33:50 am »
0

For example a Kingdom with Village, Market, Workshop, a trasher and Conspirator behaves very differently without Conspirator.

And how often does a kingdom with Village, Market, Workshop, a trasher and Conspirator come up again?
This is a nonsensical point as I could write the same thing with "Smithy" instead of "Conspirator".
I obviously just included the usual components that make an engine viable to illustrate that there are draw as well as cantrips engines.

I don't argue that the latter appear as often as the former or that they even are as good as the former. But they exist. Not ever Kingdom boils down to "Village variant plus Smithy variant".
Logged

Awaclus

  • Adventurer
  • ******
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 11804
  • Shuffle iT Username: Awaclus
  • (´。• ω •。`)
  • Respect: +12839
    • View Profile
    • Birds of Necama
Re: ThunderDominion Card List Results, 2019
« Reply #18 on: September 08, 2019, 09:41:10 am »
0

For example a Kingdom with Village, Market, Workshop, a trasher and Conspirator behaves very differently without Conspirator.

And how often does a kingdom with Village, Market, Workshop, a trasher and Conspirator come up again?
This is a nonsensical point as I could write the same thing with "Smithy" instead of "Conspirator".
I obviously just included the usual components that make an engine viable to illustrate that there are draw as well as cantrips engines.

I don't argue that the latter appear as often as the former or that they even are as good as the former. But they exist. Not ever Kingdom boils down to "Village variant plus Smithy variant".

If I challenged you into a match where Conspirator is always present and the only rule is that I'm not allowed to buy or intentionally gain it, how many games out of six do you think you would win?
Logged
Bomb, Cannon, and many of the Gunpowder cards can strongly effect gameplay, particularly in a destructive way

The YouTube channel where I make musicDownload my band's Creative Commons albums for free

aku_chi

  • Minion
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 622
  • Shuffle iT Username: aku chi
  • Respect: +1435
    • View Profile
Re: ThunderDominion Card List Results, 2019
« Reply #19 on: September 08, 2019, 02:53:00 pm »
+2

Seaside
1. Ambassador
2. Wharf
3. Ghost Ship
4. Outpost
5. Fishing Village
6. Caravan
7. Bazaar
8. Lookout
9. Smugglers
10. Lighthouse
11. Sea Hag
12. Salvager
13. Warehouse
14. Native Village
15. Tactician
16. Haven
17. Treasury
18. Island
19. Explorer
20. Cutpurse
21. Treasure Map
22. Pearl Diver
23. Embargo
24. Merchant Ship
25. Pirate Ship
26. Navigator
Logged

aku_chi

  • Minion
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 622
  • Shuffle iT Username: aku chi
  • Respect: +1435
    • View Profile
Re: ThunderDominion Card List Results, 2019
« Reply #20 on: September 08, 2019, 03:13:49 pm »
0

The play stats for Mining Village and Conspirator are remarkably similar.

The winner gains at least one copy of Mining Village / Conspirator in 69% / 69% of games, and an average of 2.6 / 2.4 copies.  Games with Mining Village are slightly faster than average but end with slightly below-average VP.  Games with Conspirator are approximately average in game length and VP at game end.  Mining Village and Conspirator seem to have a very similar power level.  I think the biggest Intrigue misrank is Courtyard, which should probably be above Mining Village.
Logged

Chappy7

  • Minion
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 542
  • Shuffle iT Username: Chappy7
  • Respect: +660
    • View Profile
Re: ThunderDominion Card List Results, 2019
« Reply #21 on: September 09, 2019, 01:30:25 pm »
0

Seaside
1. Ambassador
2. Wharf
3. Ghost Ship
4. Outpost
5. Fishing Village
6. Caravan
7. Bazaar
8. Lookout
9. Smugglers
10. Lighthouse
11. Sea Hag
12. Salvager
13. Warehouse
14. Native Village
15. Tactician
16. Haven
17. Treasury
18. Island
19. Explorer
20. Cutpurse
21. Treasure Map
22. Pearl Diver
23. Embargo
24. Merchant Ship
25. Pirate Ship
26. Navigator

Some of these bottom ones seem odd to me.  Cutpurse, Island, and Embargo seem much more useable to me than Treasure map and Explorer. (Rank 18-23)
Logged

Awaclus

  • Adventurer
  • ******
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 11804
  • Shuffle iT Username: Awaclus
  • (´。• ω •。`)
  • Respect: +12839
    • View Profile
    • Birds of Necama
Re: ThunderDominion Card List Results, 2019
« Reply #22 on: September 09, 2019, 01:39:39 pm »
0

Seaside
1. Ambassador
2. Wharf
3. Ghost Ship
4. Outpost
5. Fishing Village
6. Caravan
7. Bazaar
8. Lookout
9. Smugglers
10. Lighthouse
11. Sea Hag
12. Salvager
13. Warehouse
14. Native Village
15. Tactician
16. Haven
17. Treasury
18. Island
19. Explorer
20. Cutpurse
21. Treasure Map
22. Pearl Diver
23. Embargo
24. Merchant Ship
25. Pirate Ship
26. Navigator

Some of these bottom ones seem odd to me.  Cutpurse, Island, and Embargo seem much more useable to me than Treasure map and Explorer. (Rank 18-23)

Island is higher than TM or Explorer.
Logged
Bomb, Cannon, and many of the Gunpowder cards can strongly effect gameplay, particularly in a destructive way

The YouTube channel where I make musicDownload my band's Creative Commons albums for free

Chappy7

  • Minion
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 542
  • Shuffle iT Username: Chappy7
  • Respect: +660
    • View Profile
Re: ThunderDominion Card List Results, 2019
« Reply #23 on: September 10, 2019, 12:32:03 pm »
0

Seaside
1. Ambassador
2. Wharf
3. Ghost Ship
4. Outpost
5. Fishing Village
6. Caravan
7. Bazaar
8. Lookout
9. Smugglers
10. Lighthouse
11. Sea Hag
12. Salvager
13. Warehouse
14. Native Village
15. Tactician
16. Haven
17. Treasury
18. Island
19. Explorer
20. Cutpurse
21. Treasure Map
22. Pearl Diver
23. Embargo
24. Merchant Ship
25. Pirate Ship
26. Navigator

Some of these bottom ones seem odd to me.  Cutpurse, Island, and Embargo seem much more useable to me than Treasure map and Explorer. (Rank 18-23)

Island is higher than TM or Explorer.

Yes I can read.  I'm saying it seems much better, and that that general cluster of low ranked cards seems odd to me.
Logged

aku_chi

  • Minion
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 622
  • Shuffle iT Username: aku chi
  • Respect: +1435
    • View Profile
Re: ThunderDominion Card List Results, 2019
« Reply #24 on: September 10, 2019, 09:49:22 pm »
+1

Alchemy
1. Scrying Pool
2. Possession
3. Familiar
4. Apprentice
5. University
6. Vineyard
7. Alchemist
8. Apothecary
9. Golem
10. Herbalist
11. Transmute
12. Philosopher's Stone
Logged
Pages: [1] 2 3 ... 6  All
 

Page created in 0.057 seconds with 21 queries.