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Author Topic: M125: Poker Mafia! - Game Over - Mafia Wins!  (Read 149848 times)

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Galzria

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Re: M125: Poker Mafia! - Game has Started!!!
« Reply #200 on: October 22, 2019, 07:07:32 pm »

while I understand the reasoning behind their “no-lynch D1 passes” list, it’s lazy and something I could very much see scum!Space going to allow themselves the freedom to not make real reads - something Space knows isn’t their strong suit, especially D1 before any real data is available.

I think you're saying that I deliberately said more than I needed to about unwillingness to lynch certain players, because that will somehow excuse me from needing to do reads. How does that mechanism work?

I think by declaring intent on a few D1 passes, I've mostly just concentrated my problem in to a tougher-to-read lynchpool than I would otherwise have had, since the real hard ones to read for me are people like you, Joth and Shraeye.

Anyway, you're certainly right that I find D1 hard and D1 reads very shaky.

Well, let’s say you’re town. You have no idea if your “free-pass-list” contains scum. What if that’s the entire scum team (very much not likely, but hey). Are you just resigning yourself to “Damn, well that was freaking unlucky as hell.”? They are all just as likely to be scum as any other players. Removing them (or anybody at all really) just feels like an anti-town move - and like I said, I actually understand your why’s for each of them. But it feels like an arbitrary cop-out to not have to give reads on that group, even if it is just for D1.
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Quote from: Voltgloss
Derphammering is when quickhammers go derp.

Faust has also been incredibly stubborn this game. In other news, it's hot in the summer, and water falls from the sky when it rains.


Mafia Record:
TOWN Wins: M3, M5, M6, M11, M17, M28, M32, M105, M108, M114, M118, M120, M122, DM1, DoM1, OZ2, RM45, RM47, RM48, RM49, RM55
TOWN Losses: M4, M7, M8, M9, M13, M14, M18, M31, M110, M111, M113, M117, M125, RM3, RM4, RM54
SCUM Wins: M2, M19, M23, M100, DM3, RM1, RM2, RM48, RM50
SCUM Losses: M15 (SK), M102 (Tr), OZ1, RM55

Total Wins: 30
Total Losses: 20

SpaceAnemone

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Re: M125: Poker Mafia! - Game has Started!!!
« Reply #201 on: October 22, 2019, 07:12:19 pm »

Everyone, I am doing my Vote Counts by hand. Please feel free to call out any errors you see and I will correct them.

I've now set up my auto-vote-counter, and I get the same thing as you, except that Eevee has moved his vote in the interim.
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SpaceAnemone

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Re: M125: Poker Mafia! - Game has Started!!!
« Reply #202 on: October 22, 2019, 07:30:35 pm »

Meh. Yes, town!Space wants to find scum, but town!Space also wants to have a fun game :-) If all the scumteam is in there, I'll just have to be thankful that not everyone has the same biases as me :-)

Anyway, I've already commented recently on how I like Eevee's response to Maxford, how Maxford himself sounds pretty townie for his questions, and how I like that faust used the right number in his probability thing (whereas a scum player could easily have scumslipped there by not first removing themself from the pool, though it's true that faust himself is probably not too prone to that kind of error). Those are all readsy comments on people on my pass list, so I don't think it's true that I'm not scrutinising them. (Except LL, who hasn't said anything much, but who's probably easier for me to read later on anyway).
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jotheonah

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Re: M125: Poker Mafia! - Game has Started!!!
« Reply #203 on: October 22, 2019, 07:38:57 pm »

And last game I was super active and got our only PR killed. As an effective IC.
Not bitter about it, but just realise my reads can be terrible

no hard feelings
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jotheonah

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Re: M125: Poker Mafia! - Game has Started!!!
« Reply #204 on: October 22, 2019, 07:44:17 pm »

I think I like Eevee's responds to Maxford's post better than Joth's.

Compare Joth's "This is a pretty common way of thinking for new town" to Eevee's "Yup, this line of thinking is towny from Maxford". The first seems to be a statement of fact that just assumes Maxford is town. The latter does feel the need to comment on the very relevant intermediate fact that Maxford sounds townie for it. Why does Joth skip that?

PPE 10 because I had dinner with Maxford so I had to leave this post half-written in my browser all that time :-P

I mean, I guess it is townie. I think new scum could also get there if they were the sort of person who was good at authentically thinking from a town perspective, so I don't think it's a slam-dunk towntell.

I guess I was just jumping into "help out the newbie" mode. Like when you're at a board game night with someone who's new to the game. I leapt right out of the game into the metagame of being a good gamer and didn't even really think about that post in terms of evidence of alignment.
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faust

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Re: M125: Poker Mafia! - Game has Started!!!
« Reply #205 on: October 22, 2019, 08:05:55 pm »

God, townreading a newbie for doing newbie stuff is such a throwaway read. It shouldn't be done and you certainly shouldn't townread people for doing it.
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shraeye

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Re: M125: Poker Mafia! - Game has Started!!!
« Reply #206 on: October 22, 2019, 08:55:13 pm »

I like that faust used the right number in his probability thing (whereas a scum player could easily have scumslipped there by not first removing themself from the pool, though it's true that faust himself is probably not too prone to that kind of error).

Not only does scum make this mistake 0% of the time, scum-faust makes it even less than that
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jotheonah

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Re: M125: Poker Mafia! - Game has Started!!!
« Reply #207 on: October 22, 2019, 09:38:24 pm »

God, townreading a newbie for doing newbie stuff is such a throwaway read. It shouldn't be done and you certainly shouldn't townread people for doing it.

Or scumread people for not doing it?

vote: Space
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faust

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Re: M125: Poker Mafia! - Game has Started!!!
« Reply #208 on: October 22, 2019, 11:31:42 pm »

God, townreading a newbie for doing newbie stuff is such a throwaway read. It shouldn't be done and you certainly shouldn't townread people for doing it.

Or scumread people for not doing it?

vote: Space
This argument would have a better ring to it if you didn't end up agreeing that it was townie.
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A Drowned Kernel

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Re: M125: Poker Mafia! - Game has Started!!!
« Reply #209 on: October 23, 2019, 12:12:06 am »

faust, raerae, sell me on this ADK wagon. I'd like to get off Didds.

Why lean into ADK instead of one of the others?

Because I'm townreading raerae and faust and I'm not interested in lynching Joseph or Didds rn.

This is suspect to me. It's not as if faust and raerae made a case on me for you to sheep and I don't see any particular reason to townread either of them right now

The Joth votes are not awesome.
The WCD votes are not awesome.
The Raptor votes are interesting because where is Raptor? Or Galzy?
The ADK votes at least have something to them.
The Joseph votes are okay, too

LaLi following MiX is super interesting to me....

Do you think Lalight is scummy for it?

@ Space: no I didn't remember that you explained what PPE means but...

@ Mix: thanks for the link, it's very useful!

Also, do people have any confidence in the votes they're casting? Or are they just literally voting at random?

Technical point: what happens if we don't reach a majority by the end of Day 1?

I have 100% confidence in every vote I make right up until the point that I change my mind

Pffffft that analysis is hilarious! I can't stress how much I'm laughing right now because of that!

Can joth do that as town with a straight face??

Vote: joth

Well I guess it's my turn to not be in on the joke now? There was not a lot to analyze but I was doing it with sincerity.

vote: MiX

Based on what? I honestly have a townread on mix at this point

Hello all! Sorry for lagging. I’m Raptor, if you have any questions fell free to ask away. I was planning on getting to all of this last night when Galz took Swan and I out to drink. After copious amounts of alcohol, that never happened. So I will finally read up tonight.


vote: Raptor

I’m not scum, therefore he must be.


Also this is something scum would do Vote: Gaz

Why is it more likely to come from scum!galz than town!galz?

-

Also, just a gentle reminder to people that I go by they/them pronouns, please
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Xxraptorslayer96

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Re: M125: Poker Mafia! - All Full Up - Delayed Start
« Reply #210 on: October 23, 2019, 01:38:22 am »

Hello all! Sorry for lagging. I’m Raptor, if you have any questions fell free to ask away. I was planning on getting to all of this last night when Galz took Swan and I out to drink. After copious amounts of alcohol, that never happened. So I will finally read up tonight.

How much are you going to lurk?


I'm a busy guy, I post when I have time. I wouldn't call it lurking.


Hello all! Sorry for lagging. I’m Raptor, if you have any questions fell free to ask away. I was planning on getting to all of this last night when Galz took Swan and I out to drink. After copious amounts of alcohol, that never happened. So I will finally read up tonight.


vote: Raptor

I’m not scum, therefore he must be.


Also this is something scum would do Vote: Gaz

Why is it more likely to come from scum!galz than town!galz?

-

Also, just a gentle reminder to people that I go by they/them pronouns, please

It's a bad-ish vote, I do not plan on staying there all day.


@everyone - I promise to try my best to refer to everyone by there respected pronouns. I apologize in advance if I slip at some point in time, please correct me if i make a mistake.   
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Xxraptorslayer96

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Re: M125: Poker Mafia! - Game has Started!!!
« Reply #211 on: October 23, 2019, 01:40:31 am »

Anyway, you're certainly right that I find D1 hard and D1 reads very shaky.

I can second this, I feel the same.

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Swowl

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Re: M125: Poker Mafia! - Game has Started!!!
« Reply #212 on: October 23, 2019, 01:50:46 am »

Vote count 1.3   

        ADK (2): faust, raerae
        Space (2): Galz, Joth
        Joth(2): LaLight, Eevee
        Shraeye(1): ADK
        LaLight(1): MiX
        Raptor(1): Space
        Galzria(1): Raptor
        MiX (1): Didds
        Didds (1): Joseph
        

Not Voting (2): Maxford, Shraeye

With 14 players alive, it takes 8 to lynch.

Day 1 ends on October 28th at 1:40pm EST.
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Town:  14 wins, 14 losses (1 MVP)
Skum: 7 wins, 7 losses (1 MVP)
3-Party: 4 wins, 1 loss

Joseph2302

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Re: M125: Poker Mafia! - Game has Started!!!
« Reply #213 on: October 23, 2019, 03:48:38 am »

That's a diverse set of votes
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Mafia Stats: (correct as of 2017)
Town: 22 games, 8 wins
Scum: 5 games, 3 wins

Joseph2302

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Re: M125: Poker Mafia! - Game has Started!!!
« Reply #214 on: October 23, 2019, 03:49:12 am »

Vote: joth
L-5
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Mafia Stats: (correct as of 2017)
Town: 22 games, 8 wins
Scum: 5 games, 3 wins

MiX

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Re: M125: Poker Mafia! - Game has Started!!!
« Reply #215 on: October 23, 2019, 04:52:07 am »

I guess I have a read on ADK now.

Vote: joth
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SpaceAnemone

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Re: M125: Poker Mafia! - Game has Started!!!
« Reply #216 on: October 23, 2019, 05:44:51 am »

God, townreading a newbie for doing newbie stuff is such a throwaway read. It shouldn't be done and you certainly shouldn't townread people for doing it.

Or scumread people for not doing it?

vote: Space

I didn't scumread you for not townreading Maxford. I mildly scumread you for jumping all the way past stating any kind of townread on him and outright characterizing him as town in your statement.

Now I feel like you're getting defensive and misrepresenting me in the process. I can't decide if I scumread you for twisting my post, or townread you for being defensive about something that may just have been a mistake.
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jotheonah

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Re: M125: Poker Mafia! - Game has Started!!!
« Reply #217 on: October 23, 2019, 08:32:03 am »

I’m not thrilled about suddenly being the leading wagon.

@space, that’s fair. I’m not really super scumreading you, that was more of a vote for rhetorical emphasis.

vote: ADK
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shraeye

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Re: M125: Poker Mafia! - Game has Started!!!
« Reply #218 on: October 23, 2019, 08:38:45 am »

vote: ADK

Also, general message to all.  My apologies for being very bad with using correct pronouns.  It's something that I know I need to get better at, which I suppose is Step 1.
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MiX

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Re: M125: Poker Mafia! - Game has Started!!!
« Reply #219 on: October 23, 2019, 09:12:41 am »

What's the ADK case?
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Joseph2302

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Re: M125: Poker Mafia! - Game has Started!!!
« Reply #220 on: October 23, 2019, 09:19:52 am »

What's the ADK case?
What's the case for anyone ever D1
D1 is a crapshoot, that we have a 4/14 chance of winning
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Mafia Stats: (correct as of 2017)
Town: 22 games, 8 wins
Scum: 5 games, 3 wins

A Drowned Kernel

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Re: M125: Poker Mafia! - All Full Up - Delayed Start
« Reply #221 on: October 23, 2019, 09:33:55 am »

vote: Raptor

I’m not scum, therefore he must be.


Also this is something scum would do Vote: Gaz

Why is it more likely to come from scum!galz than town!galz?

-

Also, just a gentle reminder to people that I go by they/them pronouns, please
[/quote]

It's a bad-ish vote, I do not plan on staying there all day.
[/quote]

That's fine but it doesn't really answer my question
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A Drowned Kernel

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Re: M125: Poker Mafia! - Game has Started!!!
« Reply #222 on: October 23, 2019, 09:34:23 am »

Quote clipping fail :(
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A Drowned Kernel

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Re: M125: Poker Mafia! - Game has Started!!!
« Reply #223 on: October 23, 2019, 09:34:47 am »

vote: ADK

Also, general message to all.  My apologies for being very bad with using correct pronouns.  It's something that I know I need to get better at, which I suppose is Step 1.

I thought you were opposed to the votes on me
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WestCoastDidds

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Re: M125: Poker Mafia! - Game has Started!!!
« Reply #224 on: October 23, 2019, 09:48:44 am »




LaLi following MiX is super interesting to me....

Do you think Lalight is scummy for it?

Pffffft that analysis is hilarious! I can't stress how much I'm laughing right now because of that!

Can joth do that as town with a straight face??

Vote: joth

Well I guess it's my turn to not be in on the joke now? There was not a lot to analyze but I was doing it with sincerity.

vote: MiX

Based on what? I honestly have a townread on mix at this point


Also, just a gentle reminder to people that I go by they/them pronouns, please

Howdy knife-wielding pumpkin cat!

First question...I am not sure that I would go as far as scum reading LaLi for it just yet, but for me, it is something worth noting. If MiX is scum and LaLi is say, traitor, following him like that might be an attempt to create solidarity.  But it is one teeny data point and, unlike you, I am not 100% of anything most of the time.  So I am just making the note for the time being.

Second question...town MiX is generally helpful and actively scum hunting.  In this post he makes fun of Joth, who is making as good of an argument as anyone else is making, and generally being abrasive. The last time I played with him when he pulled that kind of move, he was the SK. Here is what I know...MiX is very good at this game so when he is creating content by being mean, there is probably a reason.

Finally, my apologies if I have messed up the pronouns. I am a word person, and a feminist theory person, and I understand at a fundamental level how much words matter.  I appreciate the reminder.
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classic Diddsian meddling
I never got to read what Didds said, but whatever she's saying, she's right.
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