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Author Topic: RMM54: War of the Spark Mafia (Game over! Scum wins flawlessly.)  (Read 107305 times)

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faust

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Re: RMM54: War of the Spark Mafia (DAY 2)
« Reply #475 on: October 18, 2019, 11:11:47 am »

Why does Rae defend Shraeye there? Why are they "town being shot just because MiX is angry" all of a sudden? The only thing that changed since the previous skum read on Shraeye is that Shraeye came in and hammered MiX. When MiX says they are vengeful they are either trolling or they are truthful, so assuming truthful... this just should make Shraeye more skummy to Rae. Right?
So why does scum!raerae defend town!shraeye?

because the only other person that was listed in MiX's list was me, and I am town.

the point you make is essentially the only reason I can entertain them both being skum.
I don't understand. What list? What does this have to do with raerae?

The list mix Gave when Rae defended Shraeye was choosing between me or Shraeye. They prob assumed mix was gonna veng Shraeye so they protected shraeye... with the worst case being mix goes me instead

Just gotta correct this, MiX said he couldn't vote for you because he could only vote for people on his wagon.
That was not articulated until after your reaction. You reacted to this post:

Swan or shraeye. SWAN OR SHRAEYE
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EFHW

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Re: RMM54: War of the Spark Mafia (DAY 2)
« Reply #476 on: October 18, 2019, 11:13:29 am »

raerae is a good lynch target today because of that contradiction in her attitude towards Shraeye. I can see scum jumping on that. Also town would have questions. I'm am befuddled why both joth and DatSwan think the scum!raerae, town!shraeye theory makes sense.
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raerae

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Re: RMM54: War of the Spark Mafia (DAY 1)
« Reply #477 on: October 18, 2019, 11:47:28 am »

Nope. See below.

I AM A VENGEFUL TOWNY.

WHO SHOULD I KILL.

WHY SHOULDN'T IT BE SHRAEYE

HELP ME YOU BASTARDS

If you don't have any strong scum reads then the townie thing to do is nothing.
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jotheonah

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Re: RMM54: War of the Spark Mafia (DAY 2)
« Reply #478 on: October 18, 2019, 12:00:13 pm »

What also bothers me here is that in the scum!shraeye scenario you posit that scum!raerae kept it calm under pressure and did the thing that benefits her team. Yet in the town!shraeye scenario, you suggest that she's panicking (when there's no reason to panic). These are wildly different reactions, how do both of them fit raerae's meta?

Maybe "panicking" was the wrong word? I didn't mean it the way you're using it. I just mean, if raerae's scum, then regardless of shraeye's alignment, her reaction to MiX's claim should be read as a time-pressured reaction to clear and present danger. In a situation like that, you have to make a decision fast and commit to it (something that generally I would expect raerae to be good at). Raerae made the decision to adopt a "don't shoot" stance that would accomplish two goals: protect her team from the venge shot, and make her look townie/keep her from having to deal with the politics of trying to direct the shot*. The decision and the nature of it doesn't change that much based on shraeye's alignment. What changes is whether it was a good or bad decision. If shraeye is town, maybe it's a bad decision. But it's still one I can see scum!raerae making in a high stress moment. Does that make sense? There's no inconsistency of character between the two scenarios. The only difference is whether raerae is reacting to an explicit threat to her partner or an implicit threat, based on the fact that MiX was likely to shoot someone and it was hard to guess who.

*To explain this point a little more, trying to direct the shot is a bit perilous for scum, since if they succeed in directing it at town they then look pretty bad.
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raerae

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Re: RMM54: War of the Spark Mafia (DAY 2)
« Reply #479 on: October 18, 2019, 12:23:07 pm »

raerae is a good lynch target today because of that contradiction in her attitude towards Shraeye. I can see scum jumping on that. Also town would have questions. I'm am befuddled why both joth and DatSwan think the scum!raerae, town!shraeye theory makes sense.

There was no contraction. I never said, "Don't kill shraeye," I said, "Don't kill anybody unless you have a strong scum read."
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faust

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Re: RMM54: War of the Spark Mafia (DAY 2)
« Reply #480 on: October 18, 2019, 12:40:08 pm »

protect her team from the venge shot, and make her look townie/keep her from having to deal with the politics of trying to direct the shot*.
This my my gripe: if shraeye is town, there was no immediate danger to raerae's team. If scum!raerae thinks arguing for no shot is townie, then that's because she thinks town!her would do it. But if that's the case, why aren't we dealing with town!her to begin with? Your case seems like "raerae did something she'd do as town, so she's scum".
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faust

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Re: RMM54: War of the Spark Mafia (DAY 2)
« Reply #481 on: October 18, 2019, 12:42:14 pm »

raerae is a good lynch target today because of that contradiction in her attitude towards Shraeye. I can see scum jumping on that. Also town would have questions. I'm am befuddled why both joth and DatSwan think the scum!raerae, town!shraeye theory makes sense.

There was no contraction. I never said, "Don't kill shraeye," I said, "Don't kill anybody unless you have a strong scum read."
What do you think about shraeye now?
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EFHW

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Re: RMM54: War of the Spark Mafia (DAY 2)
« Reply #482 on: October 18, 2019, 02:12:40 pm »

raerae is a good lynch target today because of that contradiction in her attitude towards Shraeye. I can see scum jumping on that. Also town would have questions. I'm am befuddled why both joth and DatSwan think the scum!raerae, town!shraeye theory makes sense.

There was no contraction. I never said, "Don't kill shraeye," I said, "Don't kill anybody unless you have a strong scum read."
You said don't kill a townie.
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Re: RMM54: War of the Spark Mafia (DAY 2)
« Reply #483 on: October 18, 2019, 03:13:14 pm »

DatSwan, any comment on this?

The worst case was a figure of speech as in “you chose to defend Shraeye when the worst case at the time was me (which if you are skum, would still be good for you).”
Your reasoning kinda fails in that if shraeye/you are both town, then the actual worst case for scum!raerae is noone getting shot, which is exactly what she argued for...

Town cred/i told you so logic.
Not my best reason, but that’s where I’m at with it
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Town:  14 wins, 14 losses (1 MVP)
Skum: 7 wins, 7 losses (1 MVP)
3-Party: 4 wins, 1 loss

jotheonah

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Re: RMM54: War of the Spark Mafia (DAY 2)
« Reply #484 on: October 18, 2019, 03:21:36 pm »

sometimes scum can do something that they think they would do as town/they think is townie, but actually it’s not townie or townie-seeming, because people are imperfect at counter factual thinking.

In fact, this is how scum gets caught 90% of the time. These are not hard concepts.
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EFHW

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Re: RMM54: War of the Spark Mafia (DAY 1)
« Reply #485 on: October 18, 2019, 03:44:45 pm »

Here's the reference.

Nope, killing a townie because you just NEED to use your power is selfish and anti-town but you do you, boo.
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Glooble

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Re: RMM54: War of the Spark Mafia (DAY 2)
« Reply #486 on: October 18, 2019, 04:05:34 pm »

Heads up everyone I have a really busy weekend so there might not be any official vote counts until like Monday morning. I will try and do one before bed tonight.
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I think town!Glooble pointing to something as a scum tell and then shortly thereafter doing that thing is a lot more likely than scum!Glooble doing that.

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faust

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Re: RMM54: War of the Spark Mafia (DAY 2)
« Reply #487 on: October 18, 2019, 04:37:08 pm »

sometimes scum can do something that they think they would do as town/they think is townie, but actually it’s not townie or townie-seeming, because people are imperfect at counter factual thinking.

In fact, this is how scum gets caught 90% of the time. These are not hard concepts.
You explained why you believe raerae thought it townie-seeming. You did not explain why it isn't.
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Re: RMM54: War of the Spark Mafia (DAY 2)
« Reply #488 on: October 18, 2019, 05:04:43 pm »

I think the average townie reacts like the rest of us did: hey, town has a new weapon we can use. Yeah, we mislynched, but we get a do-over. Let’s put it to the best use we can.
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faust

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Re: RMM54: War of the Spark Mafia (DAY 2)
« Reply #489 on: October 18, 2019, 05:36:05 pm »

I think the average townie reacts like the rest of us did: hey, town has a new weapon we can use. Yeah, we mislynched, but we get a do-over. Let’s put it to the best use we can.
Oh. Well I disagree. This was basically a N1 vig shot, and there are plenty of people on this site that have argued against using these in the past.
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raerae

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Re: RMM54: War of the Spark Mafia (DAY 2)
« Reply #490 on: October 18, 2019, 05:36:23 pm »

raerae is a good lynch target today because of that contradiction in her attitude towards Shraeye. I can see scum jumping on that. Also town would have questions. I'm am befuddled why both joth and DatSwan think the scum!raerae, town!shraeye theory makes sense.

There was no contraction. I never said, "Don't kill shraeye," I said, "Don't kill anybody unless you have a strong scum read."
What do you think about shraeye now?

None of his actions today have completely released him from suspicion.
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raerae

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Re: RMM54: War of the Spark Mafia (DAY 1)
« Reply #491 on: October 18, 2019, 05:41:53 pm »

Here's the reference.

Nope, killing a townie because you just NEED to use your power is selfish and anti-town but you do you, boo.

But this was the first time I told him not to shoot unless he was sure.

If you don't have any strong scum reads then the townie thing to do is nothing.


That's exactly what happened. He shot town because D1 reads are crap. It doesn't take a genius or a psychic to see how that was going to play out.
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Re: RMM54: War of the Spark Mafia (DAY 2)
« Reply #492 on: October 18, 2019, 06:51:36 pm »

Why the Awaclus vote?

Why not? Are you my scum partner?
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Re: RMM54: War of the Spark Mafia (DAY 2)
« Reply #493 on: October 18, 2019, 06:58:38 pm »

Why the Awaclus vote?

Why not? Are you my scum partner?

Sometimes I get the feeling that Awaclus has a word bank that he has to pull from for his posts.

Honestly, he should be commended on how far he is able to stretch it.
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Re: RMM54: War of the Spark Mafia (DAY 2)
« Reply #494 on: October 19, 2019, 12:07:46 pm »

does it make sense to extend the day since the site went down for a spell?
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Re: RMM54: War of the Spark Mafia (DAY 1)
« Reply #495 on: October 19, 2019, 12:11:30 pm »

Here's the reference.

Nope, killing a townie because you just NEED to use your power is selfish and anti-town but you do you, boo.

But this was the first time I told him not to shoot unless he was sure.

If you don't have any strong scum reads then the townie thing to do is nothing.


That's exactly what happened. He shot town because D1 reads are crap. It doesn't take a genius or a psychic to see how that was going to play out.
I agree with you. The issue is that Shraeye was on the short list and you said not to kill a townie.  That strongly implies you see Shraeye as town.
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Re: RMM54: War of the Spark Mafia (DAY 2)
« Reply #496 on: October 19, 2019, 12:20:49 pm »

The day will be extended by 24 hours because of the site outage.
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I think town!Glooble pointing to something as a scum tell and then shortly thereafter doing that thing is a lot more likely than scum!Glooble doing that.

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Re: RMM54: War of the Spark Mafia (DAY 1)
« Reply #497 on: October 19, 2019, 01:19:58 pm »

Here's the reference.

Nope, killing a townie because you just NEED to use your power is selfish and anti-town but you do you, boo.

But this was the first time I told him not to shoot unless he was sure.

If you don't have any strong scum reads then the townie thing to do is nothing.


That's exactly what happened. He shot town because D1 reads are crap. It doesn't take a genius or a psychic to see how that was going to play out.
I agree with you. The issue is that Shraeye was on the short list and you said not to kill a townie.  That strongly implies you see Shraeye as town.

So, again, why would I say not to do it if I knew his alignment?  No matter what joth is saying scum!raerae isn't an idiot. She's not going to advocate something against her wincon.
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raerae

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Re: RMM54: War of the Spark Mafia (DAY 2)
« Reply #498 on: October 19, 2019, 01:21:28 pm »

Anybody have anything else to discuss or should we just keep going with this? It really seems to be getting us places.  I'd like to hear more from Uncle Eddie, gkrieg, and shraeye, just off the top of my head.
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Re: RMM54: War of the Spark Mafia (DAY 2)
« Reply #499 on: October 19, 2019, 01:23:37 pm »

Why the Awaclus vote?

Why not? Are you my scum partner?

I mean, should we be voting for you? They didn't give a reason but if you'd like to enlighten the crowd, please feel free.
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