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Author Topic: RMM54: War of the Spark Mafia (Game over! Scum wins flawlessly.)  (Read 107262 times)

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Galzria

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Re: RMM54: War of the Spark Mafia (DAY 2)
« Reply #400 on: October 17, 2019, 12:03:37 pm »

Also,

Vote: Swan

- Would also be very willing to vote Eddie.

- Waiting for Shraeye’s answer.
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Quote from: Voltgloss
Derphammering is when quickhammers go derp.

Faust has also been incredibly stubborn this game. In other news, it's hot in the summer, and water falls from the sky when it rains.


Mafia Record:
TOWN Wins: M3, M5, M6, M11, M17, M28, M32, M105, M108, M114, M118, M120, M122, DM1, DoM1, OZ2, RM45, RM47, RM48, RM49, RM55
TOWN Losses: M4, M7, M8, M9, M13, M14, M18, M31, M110, M111, M113, M117, M125, RM3, RM4, RM54
SCUM Wins: M2, M19, M23, M100, DM3, RM1, RM2, RM48, RM50
SCUM Losses: M15 (SK), M102 (Tr), OZ1, RM55

Total Wins: 30
Total Losses: 20

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Re: RMM54: War of the Spark Mafia (DAY 1)
« Reply #401 on: October 17, 2019, 12:17:10 pm »

Sorry, it was Joth, not Faust, that presented the “scum wouldn’t quick-hammer” D1 theory that makes it perfectly “safe” for scum to do just that.
Just because one person said that doesn't make it safe. In fact it makes it less safe because now you can make this argument.
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Galzria

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Re: RMM54: War of the Spark Mafia (DAY 1)
« Reply #402 on: October 17, 2019, 12:57:20 pm »

Sorry, it was Joth, not Faust, that presented the “scum wouldn’t quick-hammer” D1 theory that makes it perfectly “safe” for scum to do just that.
Just because one person said that doesn't make it safe. In fact it makes it less safe because now you can make this argument.

Which is why it makes it safe because you can defend the action with this argument.
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Quote from: Voltgloss
Derphammering is when quickhammers go derp.

Faust has also been incredibly stubborn this game. In other news, it's hot in the summer, and water falls from the sky when it rains.


Mafia Record:
TOWN Wins: M3, M5, M6, M11, M17, M28, M32, M105, M108, M114, M118, M120, M122, DM1, DoM1, OZ2, RM45, RM47, RM48, RM49, RM55
TOWN Losses: M4, M7, M8, M9, M13, M14, M18, M31, M110, M111, M113, M117, M125, RM3, RM4, RM54
SCUM Wins: M2, M19, M23, M100, DM3, RM1, RM2, RM48, RM50
SCUM Losses: M15 (SK), M102 (Tr), OZ1, RM55

Total Wins: 30
Total Losses: 20

raerae

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Re: RMM54: War of the Spark Mafia (DAY 2)
« Reply #403 on: October 17, 2019, 01:17:52 pm »

Pubby and I were nemeses. I could not win with him alive, but when he died I become aligned with town. My guess is that it was the same for him.

Was he named in your pm?
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Re: RMM54: War of the Spark Mafia (DAY 2)
« Reply #404 on: October 17, 2019, 01:19:13 pm »

So I have a super busy day today and may not be able to get into it until tomorrow or Saturday. But I’ll be following along best I can. I want to reread before pushing too hard, but right now I’m still feeling like the person who looks scummiest after yesterday is raerae, just based on her reaction to MiX’s vengeful townie reveal. Which I suppose also implicates Shraeye.
Walk me through how raerae's reaction makes sense as scum if shraeye is town.

Well, only if raerae made the jump that, if MiX was ready to shoot shraeye he might be willing to shoot her too, given her similar position on the wagon. But I admit that's not strong. My current thinking on shraerae is that they're more likely to be both scum than one scum and one not. Again, I hope a reread will bring clarity when I have time for it.

So I have a super busy day today and may not be able to get into it until tomorrow or Saturday. But I’ll be following along best I can. I want to reread before pushing too hard, but right now I’m still feeling like the person who looks scummiest after yesterday is raerae, just based on her reaction to MiX’s vengeful townie reveal. Which I suppose also implicates Shraeye.

I stand by it. He hit town, didn't he? D1 is a stupid time to use that power especially when you're shooting based on who pissed you off most for voting for you.

This is neither here not there, since it's not your suggestion that I found scummy but the tone and timing of it. The Vengekill seemed to freak you out in a way that makes sense for scum and less so for town.
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LaLight

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Re: RMM54: War of the Spark Mafia (DAY 1)
« Reply #405 on: October 17, 2019, 01:24:57 pm »

Sorry, it was Joth, not Faust, that presented the “scum wouldn’t quick-hammer” D1 theory that makes it perfectly “safe” for scum to do just that.
Just because one person said that doesn't make it safe. In fact it makes it less safe because now you can make this argument.

Which is why it makes it safe because you can defend the action with this argument.

Based on your argument it made it less and more safe at the same time.

Basically yeah, the fact that Joth said it would make it more or less safe depending on whether Shraeye is scum, so the point is moot.

I personally think it's more scummy than not, I see shraeye yoloing this

vote: shraeye
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Re: RMM54: War of the Spark Mafia (DAY 2)
« Reply #406 on: October 17, 2019, 01:26:25 pm »

So I have a super busy day today and may not be able to get into it until tomorrow or Saturday. But I’ll be following along best I can. I want to reread before pushing too hard, but right now I’m still feeling like the person who looks scummiest after yesterday is raerae, just based on her reaction to MiX’s vengeful townie reveal. Which I suppose also implicates Shraeye.
Walk me through how raerae's reaction makes sense as scum if shraeye is town.

Well, only if raerae made the jump that, if MiX was ready to shoot shraeye he might be willing to shoot her too, given her similar position on the wagon. But I admit that's not strong. My current thinking on shraerae is that they're more likely to be both scum than one scum and one not. Again, I hope a reread will bring clarity when I have time for it.


Weird, but it seems the same for me. That they are more likely to both be scums
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Re: RMM54: War of the Spark Mafia (DAY 1)
« Reply #407 on: October 17, 2019, 01:27:06 pm »

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raerae

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Re: RMM54: War of the Spark Mafia (DAY 2)
« Reply #408 on: October 17, 2019, 01:37:34 pm »

So I have a super busy day today and may not be able to get into it until tomorrow or Saturday. But I’ll be following along best I can. I want to reread before pushing too hard, but right now I’m still feeling like the person who looks scummiest after yesterday is raerae, just based on her reaction to MiX’s vengeful townie reveal. Which I suppose also implicates Shraeye.
Walk me through how raerae's reaction makes sense as scum if shraeye is town.

Well, only if raerae made the jump that, if MiX was ready to shoot shraeye he might be willing to shoot her too, given her similar position on the wagon. But I admit that's not strong. My current thinking on shraerae is that they're more likely to be both scum than one scum and one not. Again, I hope a reread will bring clarity when I have time for it.

So I have a super busy day today and may not be able to get into it until tomorrow or Saturday. But I’ll be following along best I can. I want to reread before pushing too hard, but right now I’m still feeling like the person who looks scummiest after yesterday is raerae, just based on her reaction to MiX’s vengeful townie reveal. Which I suppose also implicates Shraeye.

I stand by it. He hit town, didn't he? D1 is a stupid time to use that power especially when you're shooting based on who pissed you off most for voting for you.

This is neither here not there, since it's not your suggestion that I found scummy but the tone and timing of it. The Vengekill seemed to freak you out in a way that makes sense for scum and less so for town.

Was I supposed to say that vengekilling D1 based on nothing is a bad idea BEFORE he told us he had that power?
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jotheonah

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Re: RMM54: War of the Spark Mafia (DAY 2)
« Reply #409 on: October 17, 2019, 02:15:01 pm »

Idk how I can be clearer about this. Try to put yourself in a scum mindset. You just pulled off a town lynch. Easy enough on day 1, but still, always a relief. You can exhale. It’s over. But then, your mislynch says he gets a vengekill! And he’s talking about your partner. He could shoot at any time. You gotta post something and quick. What’s the safest townie take? Try to talk him into shooting a townie? Of course not. That just makes you look bad after the shot. So you go to the old “don’t use the shot, town vigs are negative utility, etc, etc. That’s what I’m proposing.

I think the average townie reacts like the rest of us did: hey, town has a new weapon we can use. Yeah, we mislynched, but we get a do-over. Let’s put it to the best use we can.
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faust

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Re: RMM54: War of the Spark Mafia (DAY 2)
« Reply #410 on: October 17, 2019, 02:28:49 pm »

Idk how I can be clearer about this. Try to put yourself in a scum mindset. You just pulled off a town lynch. Easy enough on day 1, but still, always a relief. You can exhale. It’s over. But then, your mislynch says he gets a vengekill! And he’s talking about your partner. He could shoot at any time. You gotta post something and quick. What’s the safest townie take? Try to talk him into shooting a townie? Of course not. That just makes you look bad after the shot. So you go to the old “don’t use the shot, town vigs are negative utility, etc, etc. That’s what I’m proposing.

I think the average townie reacts like the rest of us did: hey, town has a new weapon we can use. Yeah, we mislynched, but we get a do-over. Let’s put it to the best use we can.
If you are making an argument that raerae is scum that relies on shraeye being scum, then you should really push shraeye and not raerae, so you have to explain why shraeye is scum.
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Uncleeurope

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Re: RMM54: War of the Spark Mafia (DAY 2)
« Reply #411 on: October 17, 2019, 02:33:15 pm »

Idk how I can be clearer about this. Try to put yourself in a scum mindset. You just pulled off a town lynch. Easy enough on day 1, but still, always a relief. You can exhale. It’s over. But then, your mislynch says he gets a vengekill! And he’s talking about your partner. He could shoot at any time. You gotta post something and quick. What’s the safest townie take? Try to talk him into shooting a townie? Of course not. That just makes you look bad after the shot. So you go to the old “don’t use the shot, town vigs are negative utility, etc, etc. That’s what I’m proposing.

I think the average townie reacts like the rest of us did: hey, town has a new weapon we can use. Yeah, we mislynched, but we get a do-over. Let’s put it to the best use we can.

Uhhhhhh...
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Re: RMM54: War of the Spark Mafia (DAY 2)
« Reply #412 on: October 17, 2019, 02:46:23 pm »

Idk how I can be clearer about this. Try to put yourself in a scum mindset. You just pulled off a town lynch. Easy enough on day 1, but still, always a relief. You can exhale. It’s over. But then, your mislynch says he gets a vengekill! And he’s talking about your partner. He could shoot at any time. You gotta post something and quick. What’s the safest townie take? Try to talk him into shooting a townie? Of course not. That just makes you look bad after the shot. So you go to the old “don’t use the shot, town vigs are negative utility, etc, etc. That’s what I’m proposing.

I think the average townie reacts like the rest of us did: hey, town has a new weapon we can use. Yeah, we mislynched, but we get a do-over. Let’s put it to the best use we can.

Uhhhhhh...

Are you saying that you already have a scum mindset?
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Re: RMM54: War of the Spark Mafia (DAY 2)
« Reply #413 on: October 17, 2019, 03:12:24 pm »

It seems like Joth is recommending raerae to think in a scum mindset.
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Re: RMM54: War of the Spark Mafia (DAY 2)
« Reply #414 on: October 17, 2019, 03:16:22 pm »

Shoot! I knew I was doing something wrong...
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faust

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Re: RMM54: War of the Spark Mafia (DAY 1)
« Reply #415 on: October 17, 2019, 03:40:15 pm »

Sorry, it was Joth, not Faust, that presented the “scum wouldn’t quick-hammer” D1 theory that makes it perfectly “safe” for scum to do just that.
Just because one person said that doesn't make it safe. In fact it makes it less safe because now you can make this argument.

Which is why it makes it safe because you can defend the action with this argument.
You can deconstruct any argument by adding layers of WIFOM, but that is not helpful. Without a mention of scum quickhammering noone would have considered it, so it would be safe to do it. As soon as it is mentioned, it's on people's minds. So you can be scum and try a WIFOM thing, but you can't go in assuming town won't even consider it.
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Re: RMM54: War of the Spark Mafia (DAY 2)
« Reply #416 on: October 17, 2019, 03:45:45 pm »

Idk how I can be clearer about this. Try to put yourself in a scum mindset. You just pulled off a town lynch. Easy enough on day 1, but still, always a relief. You can exhale. It’s over. But then, your mislynch says he gets a vengekill! And he’s talking about your partner. He could shoot at any time. You gotta post something and quick. What’s the safest townie take? Try to talk him into shooting a townie? Of course not. That just makes you look bad after the shot. So you go to the old “don’t use the shot, town vigs are negative utility, etc, etc. That’s what I’m proposing.

I think the average townie reacts like the rest of us did: hey, town has a new weapon we can use. Yeah, we mislynched, but we get a do-over. Let’s put it to the best use we can.
If you are making an argument that raerae is scum that relies on shraeye being scum, then you should really push shraeye and not raerae, so you have to explain why shraeye is scum.

I get your point, but I disagree.

Rae voted for Shraeye literally the entire day up until this post:
Vote: MiX

I think that's L-2?

1) Skummy L-2 mix up. This was post #294. Less than 20 posts previously, Joth voted MiX and claimed L-2. There were no votes in between on anyone from anyone.

2) There is a three part interaction between Rae-Shraeye-Mix, that floods over into the beginning of Day 2 here.
Part 1 - Rae votes for and stays on Shraeye all day up until their vote for Mix. Throughout the day they continue to stand by their Shraeye vote as well as continue to attempt to put pressure on Shraeye:
Hey, raerae, do you have anything to offer besides RVS votes?

Naw, still cool with it considering he hasn't said anything other than arbitrary numbers and a half-promise about a flavor name claim. I could move to MiX probably but I'm fine where I am for now.

"want to say my flavor name"

It's a Scum move: awaclus
It's a spotlight thing: Faust
You do you, girl: joth
Antitown: datswan
Followup question: raerae

Ignored: WCD, Uncle, gkrieg, pubby, Galz, jimmm, EFHW, laLight
Ignored, except to ask if I was doing it: Mix

Majority of scum clearly in the nonresponse group (which includes MiX).  Not just because that side has more people.

Let me know who I scummily mischaracterized.

Also, I haven't made up my mind yet

Definitely not clear. Care to expand on why that's so obvious?  Seems like you got some insider info, friend.
Hey, Shraeye, could you throw in the change in the cumulative scores in your posts? For clarity, mainly.

How is there any clarity currently?! He hasn't explained what the numbers mean so everybody is just assuming positive is good, negative is bad but he hasn't explained anything.
All fire, no substance.  This isn't townrae.

So just not answering questions then? Super cool.

I'm staying here and nominate shraeye as the alternate wagon.


Part 2: Rae thinks Shraeye is skum. Rae also could move to MiX, when the choices presented were Swan or MiX. This adds up still to this point, as Shraeye was on the Swan wagon at this point (why follow your skum read, right?). OK, hold onto that thought.


Part 3: Rae then towards the end of the day puts MiX at L-1, claiming it was L-2. Shraeye follows with the hammer. MiX then immediately claims their power stating they want to vengkill Shraeye. Rae then DEFENDS Shraeye:
Swan or shraeye. SWAN OR SHRAEYE
Someone tell me why shraeye shouldn't die right now.
I AM A VENGEFUL TOWNY.
WHO SHOULD I KILL.
WHY SHOULDN'T IT BE SHRAEYE
HELP ME YOU BASTARDS
If you don't have any strong scum reads then the townie thing to do is nothing.
Nah that's worthless. Ok Ok Ok I need to THINK.
Nope, killing a townie because you just NEED to use your power is selfish and anti-town but you do you, boo.


OK - So the story goes...
- You are skum reading and voting a player all day.
- You end up going for your alternate wagon (which your skum read is not on)
- Then your top skum read comes in and quick hammers the wagon.
- MiX comes out and says they have vengkill.

Why does Rae defend Shraeye there? Why are they "town being shot just because MiX is angry" all of a sudden? The only thing that changed since the previous skum read on Shraeye is that Shraeye came in and hammered MiX. When MiX says they are vengeful they are either trolling or they are truthful, so assuming truthful... this just should make Shraeye more skummy to Rae. Right?



There is of course also the narrative where they both could be skum I suppose, but as people have already touched on it, I am not gonna get into it. But in regards to an on wagon choice - I am:

Vote: RaeRae





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Re: RMM54: War of the Spark Mafia (DAY 2)
« Reply #417 on: October 17, 2019, 03:50:38 pm »

My other theory is that Jimm is skum along with one of EFHW/Faust. but I have not had time enough to delve into that one, and even if I did I do not think it would rank higher currently to me then my opinion on Rae.
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Re: RMM54: War of the Spark Mafia (DAY 2)
« Reply #418 on: October 17, 2019, 03:51:39 pm »

Idk how I can be clearer about this. Try to put yourself in a scum mindset. You just pulled off a town lynch. Easy enough on day 1, but still, always a relief. You can exhale. It’s over. But then, your mislynch says he gets a vengekill! And he’s talking about your partner. He could shoot at any time. You gotta post something and quick. What’s the safest townie take? Try to talk him into shooting a townie? Of course not. That just makes you look bad after the shot. So you go to the old “don’t use the shot, town vigs are negative utility, etc, etc. That’s what I’m proposing.

I think the average townie reacts like the rest of us did: hey, town has a new weapon we can use. Yeah, we mislynched, but we get a do-over. Let’s put it to the best use we can.


I 100% completely agree with this. Especially when the suggested "second shot" is the player that you had been skum reading all day.
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Re: RMM54: War of the Spark Mafia (DAY 2)
« Reply #419 on: October 17, 2019, 03:56:38 pm »


There is of course also the narrative where they both could be skum I suppose, but as people have already touched on it, I am not gonna get into it.


Wouldn't I encourage MiX voting for shraeye if I were scum and knew shraeye was town?  You can't have this cake and eat it too.  Either it's team shraerae all the way or I'm town and he's a mystery.

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Re: RMM54: War of the Spark Mafia (DAY 2)
« Reply #420 on: October 17, 2019, 03:58:39 pm »

Idk how I can be clearer about this. Try to put yourself in a scum mindset. You just pulled off a town lynch. Easy enough on day 1, but still, always a relief. You can exhale. It’s over. But then, your mislynch says he gets a vengekill! And he’s talking about your partner. He could shoot at any time. You gotta post something and quick. What’s the safest townie take? Try to talk him into shooting a townie? Of course not. That just makes you look bad after the shot. So you go to the old “don’t use the shot, town vigs are negative utility, etc, etc. That’s what I’m proposing.

I think the average townie reacts like the rest of us did: hey, town has a new weapon we can use. Yeah, we mislynched, but we get a do-over. Let’s put it to the best use we can.


I 100% completely agree with this. Especially when the suggested "second shot" is the player that you had been skum reading all day.

But MiX hadn't been reading shraeye as scum.  I'm a big enough person to admit my reads aren't fact, they're opinions.  So, if somebody hasn't been agreeing with my read but suddenly rage decides it's right I think it's my duty as town to tell that person to slow their roll and think logically.  I wouldn't have shot if I were MiX's shoes.
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Re: RMM54: War of the Spark Mafia (DAY 2)
« Reply #421 on: October 17, 2019, 04:02:49 pm »

Why does Rae defend Shraeye there? Why are they "town being shot just because MiX is angry" all of a sudden? The only thing that changed since the previous skum read on Shraeye is that Shraeye came in and hammered MiX. When MiX says they are vengeful they are either trolling or they are truthful, so assuming truthful... this just should make Shraeye more skummy to Rae. Right?
So why does scum!raerae defend town!shraeye?
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Re: RMM54: War of the Spark Mafia (DAY 2)
« Reply #422 on: October 17, 2019, 04:13:00 pm »

"Try to put yourself in a scum mindset" was sort of a general plural "you". It was a rhetorical device designed to help explain my raerae case to everyone. Yes, scum is already in a scum mindset, including raerae if she is, in fact, scum.

DatSwan has helpfully done the work I was going to do after my reread to present this case. raerae's reaction to MiX's post-death claim is the scummiest thing that happened yesterday.

Don't worry, still planning to re-read that end of day when I have the time. But for now, can hang with vote: raerae

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"I know old meta, and joth is useless day 1 but awesome town day 3 and on." --Teproc

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Glooble

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Re: RMM54: War of the Spark Mafia (DAY 2)
« Reply #423 on: October 17, 2019, 04:41:33 pm »

Domri Rade looked over a scene of rampant destruction. Normally one of his favorite things to look over, but the was a little concerned that the Boros soldiers, the Azorius soldiers, and extraplanar zombies all seemed to be equally smashed, with no regard for which side each was on.

Concerned, but not surprised. He walked over to the giant, two-headed ogre who was presiding over the victors.

"Thar," he said. "I think we talked about this. The clans have an agreement with-"

"No agreement!" said one of the heads. "Only smash!"

"I wasn't talking to you, Ruric," said Domri.

"He's right though, whelp," said the other head. "We've never needed allies or treaties before. One rule was always enough. As Borborygmus always put it, 'Not Gruul? Then die!'"

"Borborygmus isn't in charge anymore," said Domri. "I am. And I say we have allies now. It's not too hard to figure out which ones you're allowed to smash."

"Tell Ruric who to smash, tiny man gets smashed," muttered Ruric.

"C'mon," said Domri.

"I make no promises," said Thar.


Vote Count 2.1

DatSwan (2): faust, Galzria
Jimmm (1): EFHW
shraeye (1): LaLight
raerae (2): DatSwan, jothonah
Not voting (6): Awaclus, UncleEurope, gkrieg, shraeye, raerae, Jimmm.

With 12 alive, it takes 6 to lynch. The day will end at 6:30 pm on Wednesday, October 23rd.
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I think town!Glooble pointing to something as a scum tell and then shortly thereafter doing that thing is a lot more likely than scum!Glooble doing that.

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Swowl

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Re: RMM54: War of the Spark Mafia (DAY 2)
« Reply #424 on: October 17, 2019, 04:50:05 pm »

Why does Rae defend Shraeye there? Why are they "town being shot just because MiX is angry" all of a sudden? The only thing that changed since the previous skum read on Shraeye is that Shraeye came in and hammered MiX. When MiX says they are vengeful they are either trolling or they are truthful, so assuming truthful... this just should make Shraeye more skummy to Rae. Right?
So why does scum!raerae defend town!shraeye?

because the only other person that was listed in MiX's list was me, and I am town.

the point you make is essentially the only reason I can entertain them both being skum.

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Jesus how did i fuck that up
real good. That’s how
Town:  14 wins, 14 losses (1 MVP)
Skum: 7 wins, 7 losses (1 MVP)
3-Party: 4 wins, 1 loss
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