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spineflu

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spineflu, an idiot, designs fanspansions
« on: July 15, 2019, 12:24:43 pm »
+2

So i've been working on designing cards and then i accidentally a full expansion of cards, and then i accidentally a full five expansions of cards, and then i browsed the variants/fan cards formula and realized a whole bunch wouldn't work / would be bad / would not be "fun" and trimmed it down to three-ish and then realized a couple people had better ideas for cards than me or cards that fit with the whole set scheme (cited/credited as I get to them) and swapped them in.

Slowly working on making paper copies of all these.


backcountrywhy even have the marquee text option if you don't use it, right?

Backcountry is my sort-of sequel to Adventures. Its main mechanical themes are:
  • cost adjustment
  • states
  • cares about what else is on the tavern mat
Its mechanical subthemes are
  • co-op random "events" (Causes, so called because "event" was already taken)
  • Tavern Mats (sort of by default)
  • Mixed piles
  • Trashing from the supply

Its flavor themes are pastoral cattle farming, being in a literal tavern, a sort of barney fife-esque small town law and order, and just a hint of The Wicker Man.


New mechanics for Backcountry:
Causes are card-like things that are shuffled, then one is shuffled into each of the Kingdom piles prior to the start of the game (in the event of split piles (introduced in Dominion: Empires), you may either randomly slot in the cause or just not include a Cause in that pile; it's your game and you should play it the way you like.) Causes affect all players. When a cause is revealed on a Kingdom pile, it is set aside; at the end of the turn the Cause was revealed, it is resolved - do what the card says on it. After resolving the Cause, it is placed back in the game box, removing it from the game.
When building the Causes deck (prior to shuffling/adding one to each supply pile), you may include a number of blank white cards if you'd like each pile to potentially not have a cause in it - when the blank card is revealed, simply return it to the box.

Mixed Piles are like split piles but their order doesn't matter. You can only buy or gain the top card of the pile. Mixed piles with two different cards have five each; mixed piles with three different cards have four each. While this goes against the conventional ten card pile, it does go with the original design choice of twelve cards per kingdom pile.


Here's some of the cards + cardlike things (i'll post more slowly over time)
Events

Just because something is illegal doesn't mean you can't do it.


An attack-like event specifically for later-game.


An attackesque event that allows you to accidentally swamp hag yourself.


Use your tavern mat as an island



States

a state that marks piles and gives players prohibition counters (really an excuse to re-use embargo counters). The prohibition counters, in turn, interact with some Causes.


a state that makes money cheaper and doing things hard.

Supply cards

A lynchpin card used by other Cattle cards.

some other cattle cards:






^ mixed pile with v


Causes

For use with the Prohibition event, but works without it


For use with the Prohibition event, doesn't work without it.


More of a generic Cause


More to come in this set!
« Last Edit: July 23, 2019, 02:06:29 pm by spineflu »
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Aquila

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Re: spineflu, an idiot, designs fanspansions
« Reply #1 on: July 15, 2019, 05:42:37 pm »
+1

Here's a brief Backcountry overview:

Main themes: States are a wide open design space with lots of potential, look forward to seeing what else you've done. With using the tavern mat just mind interactions with the Reserve cards and Miser. With cost adjustment, go overboard and it'll be really hard for players to keep track of the changes all the time; with the other Supply alterations in this set there's a huge amount going on.

Subthemes: Mixed piles add randomness, suggesting that you want Backcountry to be a relaxed, low-skill set less about strategy and more about player interaction. Supply trashing understandably goes with this, but too much and the game can be over on 3 piles before players get satisfying decks together.
Causes I first thought would be further randomness with shuffling them in (with split piles you could always say put them in the middle), but then I remembered players can look through the piles at any time to see where they are. So it's public knowledge when they come up and what will happen - that can make for some neat strategizing! You could certainly do interesting things with Causes!

Prohibited: this looks like it wants to be another unique mechanic like the Causes and mixed piles. I don't really get the $4 cost Event; what are you buying? The rules could be kept in the 'rulebook' and the tokens in the box. To introduce the Prohibited State into a game you could use a unique type on the things that need the tokens, like Looter to Ruins. So one random pile each game powers these up - the replayability it adds is nice, the competition to win the split of the pile another thing if it's worth it.

Out of time to look at the specific cards and the cow mechanic, but the combination of Causes and Prohibited could make for a neat set. Mixed piles...I don't think will really work. That kind of randomness doesn't really suit Dominion.
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Commodore Chuckles

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Re: spineflu, an idiot, designs fanspansions
« Reply #2 on: July 15, 2019, 07:42:54 pm »
0

Prohibited should not be a State. It's more similar to the Bane card.

Giving Stampede the "Attack" type does nothing as everything that reacts to Attack cards says "when another player plays an Attack card" and Stampede cannot be played. Note that Raid is not an Attack.
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spineflu

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Re: spineflu, an idiot, designs fanspansions
« Reply #3 on: July 15, 2019, 08:44:29 pm »
0

Here's a brief Backcountry overview:

Main themes: States are a wide open design space with lots of potential, look forward to seeing what else you've done. With using the tavern mat just mind interactions with the Reserve cards and Miser. With cost adjustment, go overboard and it'll be really hard for players to keep track of the changes all the time; with the other Supply alterations in this set there's a huge amount going on.

Subthemes: Mixed piles add randomness, suggesting that you want Backcountry to be a relaxed, low-skill set less about strategy and more about player interaction. Supply trashing understandably goes with this, but too much and the game can be over on 3 piles before players get satisfying decks together.
Causes I first thought would be further randomness with shuffling them in (with split piles you could always say put them in the middle), but then I remembered players can look through the piles at any time to see where they are. So it's public knowledge when they come up and what will happen - that can make for some neat strategizing! You could certainly do interesting things with Causes!

Prohibited: this looks like it wants to be another unique mechanic like the Causes and mixed piles. I don't really get the $4 cost Event; what are you buying? The rules could be kept in the 'rulebook' and the tokens in the box. To introduce the Prohibited State into a game you could use a unique type on the things that need the tokens, like Looter to Ruins. So one random pile each game powers these up - the replayability it adds is nice, the competition to win the split of the pile another thing if it's worth it.

Out of time to look at the specific cards and the cow mechanic, but the combination of Causes and Prohibited could make for a neat set. Mixed piles...I don't think will really work. That kind of randomness doesn't really suit Dominion.

player interaction (especially non-attack player interaction) is definitely a highlight goal for me with these (esp. in the third set, "Syndicates", but that's future knowledge). The supply pile trashing is a minor theme, nothing overboard.

re: what you're buying with Prohibition, you're adding a token delivery mechanic to a pile (similar to a conceptual Adventure token for +1 Coffers) but it affects all players (a la Embargo). What the prohibition tokens do is resolve when the Vice Raid and Valuable Contraband Causes come up, as well as provide a future design space thematically based around bootlegging/smuggling.

The mixed piles will be expanded upon in my second set, "Heresy"; for now they're largely cards that are variations on a theme, synergize in a way that doesn't necessitate one happening first a la split piles, and/or a collection of lower cost cards that would maybe be boring to have all three as separate kingdom cards but put them all together in one pile and you get interesting interactions. Having a nonconsistent supply pile can create interesting randomness in the (un)availability of the card you want.

Prohibited should not be a State. It's more similar to the Bane card.

Giving Stampede the "Attack" type does nothing as everything that reacts to Attack cards says "when another player plays an Attack card" and Stampede cannot be played. Note that Raid is not an Attack.

Prohibited is actually closer to an Adventures-style token, i just didnt want to have the rules for it buried in the rulebook, nor have it be player-specific. While there havent been non-player-anchored states, there's no reason to reinvent the wheel here - let states be attached to whatever and provide additional rules for what they're attached to.

Good catch on Stampede tho. I'll change that tomorrow when i'm back at my work pc.

spineflu

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Re: spineflu, an idiot, designs fanspansions
« Reply #4 on: July 15, 2019, 09:20:26 pm »
+1

A general disclaimanifesto: a pervasive subtheme in many of my designs (both in dominion and in other/original board game designs) is hubris cards/abilities - higher risk cards or strategies that generally don't pay off. While this is boring to a competitive scene (there's usually a more optimal/dependable path), it enables the "big fish" stories that more casual game scenes thrive off of. This is the same design space that MtG's "Un-" sets live in; it sees cards like Coppersmith, Tribute, or snagging three coppers per turn for a Thief-Garden combo as worthwhile paths to examine, not missteps. I'd encourage looking at your own designs from this perspective. Ask whether a thing is fun when it pays off rarely - is the payoff story worth the times it doesnt work? Is the randomness fun for a new player? Since most gamers play a game only a handful of times, I'd say light constant randomness (shuffling) and heavy intermittent randomness (rare payoff strategies) are both crucial to a design to encourge a positive memory of a game, despite ths latter discouraging data-driven replayability.

Aquila

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Re: spineflu, an idiot, designs fanspansions
« Reply #5 on: July 16, 2019, 06:17:00 am »
0

...

player interaction (especially non-attack player interaction) is definitely a highlight goal for me with these (esp. in the third set, "Syndicates", but that's future knowledge). The supply pile trashing is a minor theme, nothing overboard.
A general disclaimanifesto: a pervasive subtheme in many of my designs (both in dominion and in other/original board game designs) is hubris cards/abilities - higher risk cards or strategies that generally don't pay off. While this is boring to a competitive scene (there's usually a more optimal/dependable path), it enables the "big fish" stories that more casual game scenes thrive off of. This is the same design space that MtG's "Un-" sets live in; it sees cards like Coppersmith, Tribute, or snagging three coppers per turn for a Thief-Garden combo as worthwhile paths to examine, not missteps. I'd encourage looking at your own designs from this perspective. Ask whether a thing is fun when it pays off rarely - is the payoff story worth the times it doesnt work? Is the randomness fun for a new player? Since most gamers play a game only a handful of times, I'd say light constant randomness (shuffling) and heavy intermittent randomness (rare payoff strategies) are both crucial to a design to encourge a positive memory of a game, despite ths latter discouraging data-driven replayability.
Yes, this is a fine way to expand the game. Those who like a more strategic Dominion can always stick to Donald's cards, can't they?

re: what you're buying with Prohibition, you're adding a token delivery mechanic to a pile (similar to a conceptual Adventure token for +1 Coffers) but it affects all players (a la Embargo). What the prohibition tokens do is resolve when the Vice Raid and Valuable Contraband Causes come up, as well as provide a future design space thematically based around bootlegging/smuggling.
So 5 x players tokens go on the event, ready for taking. Are there going to be other ways to get them besides the Prohibited State? If there aren't then the number of tokens won't match up to the number of cards in the Prohibited pile in 3+ player games.
And what I meant with buying was, you pay $4 to use the Event, what happens?

The mixed piles will be expanded upon in my second set, "Heresy"; for now they're largely cards that are variations on a theme, synergize in a way that doesn't necessitate one happening first a la split piles, and/or a collection of lower cost cards that would maybe be boring to have all three as separate kingdom cards but put them all together in one pile and you get interesting interactions. Having a nonconsistent supply pile can create interesting randomness in the (un)availability of the card you want.
This could well work, and with your intent on the player interaction side it looks like a good mechanic to explore. It might just be Slaughterhouse/Cattleman I don't really like - terminal Actions are the ones players want to get right in their decks, and these two behave quite differently. So, I could see a mixed pile of very similar and/or non-terminal cards working better.

At least, this is from a strategy player's point of view. I'll try to be fair looking at the individual cards:

Stampede - I can't help but point out that Donald found a top-of-deck trash Attack did not work, and he really tried to make it happen! The exeunt of Saboteur from 2E Intrigue tells the whole story. Someone has to trash a Province, another a Copper or something not serious. By pure chance the player with the Province is losing. There's also the potential to reduce players' decks to nothing and render them helpless. I guess this really establishes the audience you're after, some people will like the 'gotcha' moments but strategy gamers will be frustrated at this.

Witchhunt - the buyer hopes to get a Silver on the deck, at a risk that's more favourable the more players there are. I doubt this costs $5, maybe $4 or even $3. Besides this it captures the casual spirit of Stampede in a less volatile way, so it's good.

Abbey - a purely strategic one. I first wonder if someone would want to pay $4 for this, but Island-ing a Province is valuable. And too cheap might speed Miser up too much or make readying Reserves too easy.

Fallow - trashing a Treasure is optional as you can always just play all your Treasures down before buying this, but Copper trashing will often be what this is used for. So effectively it costs $4 to trash one Copper, so much weaker than Bonfire. The kingdom pile trash is situational; aside from cards that gain things from the trash and split/mixed piles, will someone have a spare $3 to go towards slowly emptying piles? So overall, this could be a touch cheaper at maybe $2?

Cow - how many of these are there? The premise looks good, storing these up to spike certain effects.
Rustle/Wanted - Wanted shouldn't be too hard to remember as you take it yourself. It can add reason to why you get Rustle, pointing towards either a big money strategy or a trash-Actions-for-benefit one. Rustle itself can essentially be a Silver in Action form - you get 2 Cows to hand and reserve them, never calling them into deck again. This suggests a higher price of $3 or $4. Of course it depends on how many Cows there are, once they empty out you're taking them from others and it becomes a Copper.
If other Cattle cards are in the game this becomes a bit more potent and more fun, but usable without if an all random draft makes such happen.
Milkmaid - compared to Miser: in exchange for having the desired Treasure from the start and thinning the deck, reserving them is non-terminal and you get a buy. Difficult to tell without playtesting, but the buildup speed feels about the same. You can change the number of cows that come with it if needs be.
Slaughterhouse/Cattleman - to elaborate on what I said earlier, Slaughterhouse trashes the cows, whereas Cattleman can reuse them later. It seems a lot more worthwhile to make a Cattleman deck, one that can handle the cows coming and going; you need only draw a Copper's worth each time to achieve the same amount of payload as Slaughterhouse, albeit without the pseudo buy. It's more flexible too, Slaughterhouse emphasises 'store 4 cows for a Province' quite strongly but Cattleman could say cycle 2 cows each turn. So, the chance element of the pile feels a bit too harsh here to be liked.

Causes
Valuable Contraband - players want to either time when they can best get a Gold and Duchy, or compete for prohibition tokens first. It feels a fair bit more fun and meaningful with a Prohibited pile, although if this ended up just one card down the Prohibited pile itself...whoever gets to gain that top card first takes a nice prize, yet it's a balanced one not overly dominating early. It should work.

Vice Raid - the Prohibited pile is discouraged...or not, depending on where this ends up. It can be nice to analyse, and I guess the flavour of going innocent or criminal is a nice touch.

A Time to Sow - a simple Cause that quietens the noise of the others, which is good so there isn't too much going on to take in. That said, could a bump up to 2 cards be more meaningful?

I really do feel the Causes are the best thing here, because I suppose they appeal to both casual and serious players!
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spineflu

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Re: spineflu, an idiot, designs fanspansions
« Reply #6 on: July 16, 2019, 09:25:13 am »
0

...

...
...
Yes, this is a fine way to expand the game. Those who like a more strategic Dominion can always stick to Donald's cards, can't they?
bingo - same as how when people don't like Potion-cost cards, they don't play with Alchemy. Like I said in the Causes rules, it's your game and you should play it how you want.

Quote from: Aquila
re: what you're buying with Prohibition, you're adding a token delivery mechanic to a pile (similar to a conceptual Adventure token for +1 Coffers) but it affects all players (a la Embargo). What the prohibition tokens do is resolve when the Vice Raid and Valuable Contraband Causes come up, as well as provide a future design space thematically based around bootlegging/smuggling.
So 5 x players tokens go on the event, ready for taking. Are there going to be other ways to get them besides the Prohibited State? If there aren't then the number of tokens won't match up to the number of cards in the Prohibited pile in 3+ player games.
And what I meant with buying was, you pay $4 to use the Event, what happens?
You pay $4 to use the event - it allows you to place the Prohibited state on a pile. While the number of Prohibition tokens won't match the number of cards in the pile, the more limited number does make it so I don't have to buy an additional copy of Seaside to test with - for two or three player, i can just pull out the embargo tokens (for 4-6 i'll have to grab some 8mm cubes from my gamedesign supplies box). Why five per player? There's no real prize or penalty presently to having specifically more than 5; I figured five was a manageable amount, and thematically, if you were a bootlegger and got busted with five barrels of whiskey or ten, I don't think it really mattered in terms of penalty. Playtesting will tell whether I hit or missed the mark on that.

Quote from: Aquila
The mixed piles will be expanded upon in my second set, "Heresy"; for now they're largely cards that are variations on a theme, synergize in a way that doesn't necessitate one happening first a la split piles, and/or a collection of lower cost cards that would maybe be boring to have all three as separate kingdom cards but put them all together in one pile and you get interesting interactions. Having a nonconsistent supply pile can create interesting randomness in the (un)availability of the card you want.
This could well work, and with your intent on the player interaction side it looks like a good mechanic to explore. It might just be Slaughterhouse/Cattleman I don't really like - terminal Actions are the ones players want to get right in their decks, and these two behave quite differently. So, I could see a mixed pile of very similar and/or non-terminal cards working better.
This is also the reason for trash-from-supply being a thing in this - you can sift the supply piles.

Quote from: Aquila
Cow - how many of these are there? The premise looks good, storing these up to spike certain effects.
16 for 2-4 player, 20 for five player, 24 for six. For the time being I'm not going to be testing with 5+6 players.

spineflu

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Re: spineflu, an idiot, designs fanspansions
« Reply #7 on: July 16, 2019, 11:31:38 am »
+1

Backcountry Day 2:
We've got some more causes! We've got some more mixed piles! We've got some more things that care whether you're "Wanted"!

Causes
This is the rest of the "Vanilla" causes:



(masquerade counts as vanilla, right?)

and keeping with the trash-from-supply theme:


"regular" Kingdom Cards that care about Wanted





Mixed pile Kingdom Cards
Constable/Deputy (5 each)



Marquis/Magistrate (5 each)



Piper/Singer/Fiddler (4 each)



« Last Edit: July 16, 2019, 11:56:42 am by spineflu »
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Aquila

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Re: spineflu, an idiot, designs fanspansions
« Reply #8 on: July 17, 2019, 01:49:01 pm »
+1

Quote from: Aquila
re: what you're buying with Prohibition, you're adding a token delivery mechanic to a pile (similar to a conceptual Adventure token for +1 Coffers) but it affects all players (a la Embargo). What the prohibition tokens do is resolve when the Vice Raid and Valuable Contraband Causes come up, as well as provide a future design space thematically based around bootlegging/smuggling.
So 5 x players tokens go on the event, ready for taking. Are there going to be other ways to get them besides the Prohibited State? If there aren't then the number of tokens won't match up to the number of cards in the Prohibited pile in 3+ player games.
And what I meant with buying was, you pay $4 to use the Event, what happens?
You pay $4 to use the event - it allows you to place the Prohibited state on a pile. While the number of Prohibition tokens won't match the number of cards in the pile, the more limited number does make it so I don't have to buy an additional copy of Seaside to test with - for two or three player, i can just pull out the embargo tokens (for 4-6 i'll have to grab some 8mm cubes from my gamedesign supplies box). Why five per player? There's no real prize or penalty presently to having specifically more than 5; I figured five was a manageable amount, and thematically, if you were a bootlegger and got busted with five barrels of whiskey or ten, I don't think it really mattered in terms of penalty. Playtesting will tell whether I hit or missed the mark on that.
OK, I see the confusion now. The top and bottom line instructions on the Event are the wrong way round. The on-buy effect goes on top. The tokens can be however many then, as you say, because players can move Prohibited around the piles as they please so any pile can get tokens. The cost of $4 and a buy seems sensibly expensive so when someone makes a decision it likely stays for a while. The Event should probably also ignore the 2 landscapes per game rule, as it's essential to the functionality of some cards?

Quote from: Aquila
Cow - how many of these are there? The premise looks good, storing these up to spike certain effects.
16 for 2-4 player, 20 for five player, 24 for six. For the time being I'm not going to be testing with 5+6 players.
A fair number. Why not say 4 per player? With an even split: Milkmaid caps at $4, that's fair; Rustle powers down to Copper worth quite quickly; Slaughterhouse gets a Province once, which kinda emphasises that you use it once in the whole game, which seems to make Cattleman even more favourable. You could make a Slaughterhouse return the cows to their pile, if that would be balanced in an engine with 2 Rustles. Yes not so true to flavour but...cows breed.

Seeing how several of your cards are entirely dependent on each other, it looks like you're making this set to be playable just by itself. Trying to do all random games mixing it in with other sets isn't going to work too well too often. If Outlaw Village, for instance, gets selected without any way to get Wanted with it, it's probably best replaced?
It's not a bad thing to make sets like this at all, just most people on this forum consider playability in all random games a necessary criterion to good designs. I guess it doesn't really define 'Dominion expansion' if you can't add it to the official game. It's more like a spin-off.

Getting hopefully the right perspective, let's see these new cards:

A Time to Break Down - exactly $1 more or up to $1 more? Can players trash Coppers and get nothing back if no Poor House? Either way it's a tricky one to want to activate yourself, as you won't often know the entirety of your next hand. You 'may' trash yes, but there's still the gift to your opponents. It does fit the 'rare cases of usefulness' bill, but not very dramatically. So it's a bit...incidental.

A Time to Build Up - it's always impactful, but with variation each game; no +buys, a pile one really needs to win the split on, or the Prohibited pile, all give reason to want to trigger it. Good one.

A Time to Cast Away - losing a random card, just like Stampede, makes for randomness that appeals to the casual player. It even goes to their hand, so it's very impactful and suspensive. If you can both activate it and prepare your top card to pass on, that will be satisfying.

A Time to Lose - timing, how low down a pile this lands, affects its relevance quite a lot. Even considering this it's quite unexciting. Only junk will be trashed, and there's more of it early, so everyone is more likely to get benefit then. Later it can more likely benefit some of the players, but to milder effect as the deck is more developed.
Now I'm thinking with this, and possibly a Time to Build Up too, that it'd be more exciting affecting just the player who activates it. They'd be things to compete for.

A Time to Reap - now this isn't bad, a speed boost for someone to time getting when they're ahead. Treasures add a little more niche uses.

Out of time for now.
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Commodore Chuckles

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Re: spineflu, an idiot, designs fanspansions
« Reply #9 on: July 17, 2019, 06:43:15 pm »
0

Prohibited is actually closer to an Adventures-style token, i just didnt want to have the rules for it buried in the rulebook, nor have it be player-specific. While there havent been non-player-anchored states, there's no reason to reinvent the wheel here - let states be attached to whatever and provide additional rules for what they're attached to.

Having something anchored to a pile rather than players feels different enough to me that it shouldn't be called a "State". I guess I can't force you to do anything though.
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spineflu

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Re: spineflu, an idiot, designs fanspansions
« Reply #10 on: July 23, 2019, 09:52:16 am »
+1

Prohibited is actually closer to an Adventures-style token, i just didnt want to have the rules for it buried in the rulebook, nor have it be player-specific. While there havent been non-player-anchored states, there's no reason to reinvent the wheel here - let states be attached to whatever and provide additional rules for what they're attached to.

Having something anchored to a pile rather than players feels different enough to me that it shouldn't be called a "State". I guess I can't force you to do anything though.

I'll refer you to the first three words of the title. Don't take me too seriously, I may be wrong.
I did finally remember to fix stampede tho

Backcountry part 3: the real professor and mary-anne of it - the rest

Final two Causes



A Cattle card I missed the first time through


More reserve cards










And some normal action cards
















« Last Edit: July 23, 2019, 09:56:13 am by spineflu »
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Re: spineflu, an idiot, designs fanspansions
« Reply #11 on: July 23, 2019, 11:59:02 am »
0

Crops is strictly better than Estate and thus has to cost at least .
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Re: spineflu, an idiot, designs fanspansions
« Reply #12 on: July 23, 2019, 12:31:45 pm »
0

Crops is strictly better than Estate and thus has to cost at least .
Indeed. Yet at $3 it would be strictly worse than Tunnel. So it has to provide 1/3VPs or something else to differentiate it enough from Estate and Tunnel.
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spineflu

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Re: spineflu, an idiot, designs fanspansions
« Reply #13 on: July 23, 2019, 01:46:51 pm »
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Crops is strictly better than Estate and thus has to cost at least .
Crops is strictly better than Estate and thus has to cost at least .

Indeed. Yet at $3 it would be strictly worse than Tunnel. So it has to provide 1/3VPs or something else to differentiate it enough from Estate and Tunnel.


I mean, entertain this train of thought for a minute - its strictly better than Estates, so it simply inflates the value of Estate-equivalents of games that it's in. A run on it slows your deck down just as much as Estates, but if you can't split the pile on it (or gain the upper hand), you have to pivot and buy duchies/provinces, yeah? It changes up the relative value of Estates but that's about it. Maybe that's fine that it's the same price?

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Re: spineflu, an idiot, designs fanspansions
« Reply #14 on: July 23, 2019, 01:52:34 pm »
+2

Portcullis doesn't need to be a Reaction, does it? It works exactly as it needs to just being an Action-Reserve.

(Reserve cards are all basically a "subtype" of reaction cards)
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segura

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Re: spineflu, an idiot, designs fanspansions
« Reply #15 on: July 23, 2019, 01:55:04 pm »
+1

Crops is strictly better than Estate and thus has to cost at least .
Crops is strictly better than Estate and thus has to cost at least .

Indeed. Yet at $3 it would be strictly worse than Tunnel. So it has to provide 1/3VPs or something else to differentiate it enough from Estate and Tunnel.
It changes up the relative value of Estates but that's about it. Maybe that's fine that it's the same price?
On the 'strictly better' front I am fairly moderate. I believe that designing a card that is strictly better than an existing card is not a horrible design crime per se. It depends on whether the card one's design stands in relation to is singular, representitive of an entire card category or always present:
- You could e.g. do a Mine which provides +1 Action and the world would not end.
- But if you did a Village with an cherry on top for $3 that would be bad as there are many villages in Dominion so the price of $3 for vanilla Village is a relevant benchmark.
- Designing a card which outclasses a card which is present in all Kingdoms is even worse.

So yeah, even from a very lenient perspective you cannot design a card which provides 1 or 2 VPs that costs $2 or $3.
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math

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Re: spineflu, an idiot, designs fanspansions
« Reply #16 on: July 23, 2019, 02:01:20 pm »
+1

Crops is strictly better than Estate and thus has to cost at least .
Crops is strictly better than Estate and thus has to cost at least .

Indeed. Yet at $3 it would be strictly worse than Tunnel. So it has to provide 1/3VPs or something else to differentiate it enough from Estate and Tunnel.
It changes up the relative value of Estates but that's about it. Maybe that's fine that it's the same price?
On the 'strictly better' front I am fairly moderate. I believe that designing a card that is strictly better than an existing card is not a horrible design crime per se. It depends on whether the card one's design stands in relation to is singular, representitive of an entire card category or always present:
- You could e.g. do a Mine which provides +1 Action and the world would not end.
- But if you did a Village with an cherry on top for $3 that would be bad as there are many villages in Dominion so the price of $3 for vanilla Village is a relevant benchmark.
- Designing a card which outclasses a card which is present in all Kingdoms is even worse.

So yeah, even from a very lenient perspective you cannot design a card which provides 1 or 2 VPs that costs $2 or $3.

I think it's fine to design a card that is strictly better than Estate, especially since Estates aren't the strongest card to begin with (in most games the pile never gets touched until the last few turns).  Delve is strictly better than Silver (technically it's exactly Silver but costs less), and it doesn't hurt the game, it just modifies it so Silver is easier to get.  Crops seems fine as-is; nobody will buy Estates unless the Crops pile is gone, but I don't think that's a problem.

Edit: a word
« Last Edit: July 23, 2019, 03:25:52 pm by math »
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spineflu

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Re: spineflu, an idiot, designs fanspansions
« Reply #17 on: July 23, 2019, 02:26:48 pm »
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Here's the entirety of Backcountry in one actually quasiorganized post:
Causes (10 cards total, one each)

Valuable Contraband

Vice Raid

Includes Prohibition event
A Time To Sow

A Time To Break Down

A Time To Build Up

A Time To Cast Away

A Time To Lose

A Time To Reap

A Time For War

A Time For Peace


Causes are card-like things that are shuffled, then one is shuffled into each of the Kingdom piles prior to the start of the game (in the event of split piles (introduced in Dominion: Empires), you may either randomly slot in the cause or just not include a Cause in that pile; it's your game and you should play it the way you like.) Causes affect all players. When a cause is revealed on a Kingdom pile, it is set aside; at the end of the turn the Cause was revealed, it is resolved - do what the card says on it. After resolving the Cause, it is placed back in the game box, removing it from the game.

When building the Causes deck (prior to shuffling/adding one to each supply pile), you may include a number of blank white cards if you'd like each pile to potentially not have a cause in it - when the blank card is revealed, simply return it to the box.



Events

Prohibition

Prohibited (state)

(distributed via the Prohibition Event,
similar to adventures tokens / embargo tokens,
ten copies)

Stampede

Includes "Cow" - see Cattle section
Abbey

Witchhunt

Fallow


Cattle
Cow

16 for 2-4 players
20 for five players
24 for six players

Rustle

Milkmaid

Meat Market

Cattleman /
Slaughterhouse
(5 each, Mixed Pile)
Cattleman

Slaughterhouse

Kingdom Cards that care about Wanted

Wanted (state)

(six copies)
Outlaw Village

Sheriff

Ruffian

Autem Diver

Deputy/
Constable
(5 each, Mixed Pile)
Deputy

Constable

Magistrate/
Marquis
(5 each, Mixed Pile)
Magistrate

Marquis


Other kingdom cards

Piper/
Singer/
Fiddler
(Mixed Pile, 4 each)
Piper

Singer

Fiddler

Portcullis

Puppet Theater

Witch of the Woods

Abbot

Iron Mine

Humble Village

Ramshackle Bridge

Pauper

Bowler

Farrier

Effigy

Manor

Crops



« Last Edit: July 23, 2019, 04:23:45 pm by spineflu »
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segura

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Re: spineflu, an idiot, designs fanspansions
« Reply #18 on: July 23, 2019, 02:41:27 pm »
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Crops seems fine as-ts; nobody will buy Estates unless the Crops pile is gone, but I don't think that's a problem.
It is as much or as little of a problem as Farming Village for $3. You can do it and unlike Crops it matters in very few games. But it is still a bad design principle to do  a card that is strictly better than an existing, non-singular card.
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spineflu

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Re: spineflu, an idiot, designs fanspansions
« Reply #19 on: July 23, 2019, 03:15:40 pm »
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Portcullis doesn't need to be a Reaction, does it? It works exactly as it needs to just being an Action-Reserve.

(Reserve cards are all basically a "subtype" of reaction cards)

not sure - i figured since reaction cards are activateable on other ppls turns, it was better practise to put it on; the existing Reserve cards are instants for your own turn, but reactions can be instants on other peoples' turns as well. I don't think it's a real deal breaker/game changer either way except with cards that care about other cards' types.

Likewise I'm not sure Witch of the Woods needs to be a Duration but given that it *is* passively doing a thing while on the tavern mat, I included it.

« Last Edit: July 24, 2019, 09:33:25 am by spineflu »
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Re: spineflu, an idiot, designs fanspansions
« Reply #20 on: July 30, 2019, 02:00:42 pm »
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Time for set two:
Heresy

Dominion Heresy is probably the most "normal" expansion of the three I've made.

It's intended as a sequel to Alchemy and Dark Ages, mechanically.
It uses VP tokens and potions, as well as coin tokens (more on that in the third Heresy post).

When playing with cards from Heresy, include Potions in the Supply even if there are no Potion-cost cards.

Mechanical themes include:
• VP tokens
• a new take on Potions
• Unique + Mixed piles
• Overpaying
• Trashing











Revised the wording on this after the notes I received from the WDC thread (contest #36?) - less ambiguous to what Curses are when you play multiple Heretics - they're just Silvers.





This provides the cost adjustment on the turn you play it and the next turn, because that's kind of subtle.
« Last Edit: July 30, 2019, 02:02:10 pm by spineflu »
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spineflu

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Re: spineflu, an idiot, designs fanspansions
« Reply #21 on: August 01, 2019, 09:43:48 am »
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part two of four

We've got a mixed pile, Grimoire / Manuscript
As you build your occult library, each grows more powerful. Also a good way to pivot from potion-treasure to $ treasure
Remember, this is a mixed pile, so here's a refresher on Mixed piles from Backcountry:
Quote
Mixed Piles are like split piles but their order doesn't matter. You can only buy or gain the top card of the pile. Mixed piles with two different cards have five each; mixed piles with three different cards have four each. While this goes against the conventional ten card pile, it does go with the original design choice of twelve cards per kingdom pile.


a potion cost trasher/vp token-er/sifter (updated)


A wishing well that turns handsize attacks to a comparatively painless fizzle


A potion overpay masterpiece that turns into gold. Thematically appropriate.

And then our first unique pile: Seals
As with the Knights pile, this is shuffled and all but the top card are placed face-down. When one is bought or gained, the next is flipped face-up.
Each has a symbol on its title banner that tells which symbol it has.
When you play with only two players, remove four Seals at random.












« Last Edit: August 02, 2019, 09:18:17 am by spineflu »
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segura

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Re: spineflu, an idiot, designs fanspansions
« Reply #22 on: August 01, 2019, 11:54:01 am »
+2

Orrery, a terminal trasher that provides some deck control, would be weak at $3, let alone $3P.
Prophet is a potential source of non-terminal VPs that seems too easily exploitable in an engine.
Lead is an on-buy Treasure Trove that is far too weak. You end up with a Potion, x Coppers and x Golds in your deck.
The set collection thing about the Seals is a cool idea but I cannot imagine a situation in which I'd buy 2 Potions just for the sake of some lousy overpaying for VP. You are sometimes getting a second Potion with Alchemist or in the case of a Vineyard rush but Seals provide on average less VPs than Vineyards, i.e. they seem lees centralizing which make you less willing to get a second Potion (independent of the overpay thingy).

Your meta-problem seems to be that you seriously underestimate the opportunity cost of getting/having Potions. You have to buy a Potion and you have to deal with the disadvantage of an extra dead card in your deck.
« Last Edit: August 01, 2019, 11:55:20 am by segura »
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spineflu

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Re: spineflu, an idiot, designs fanspansions
« Reply #23 on: August 01, 2019, 03:40:39 pm »
0

Orrery, a terminal trasher that provides some deck control, would be weak at $3, let alone $3P.
Prophet is a potential source of non-terminal VPs that seems too easily exploitable in an engine.
Lead is an on-buy Treasure Trove that is far too weak. You end up with a Potion, x Coppers and x Golds in your deck.
The set collection thing about the Seals is a cool idea but I cannot imagine a situation in which I'd buy 2 Potions just for the sake of some lousy overpaying for VP. You are sometimes getting a second Potion with Alchemist or in the case of a Vineyard rush but Seals provide on average less VPs than Vineyards, i.e. they seem lees centralizing which make you less willing to get a second Potion (independent of the overpay thingy).

Your meta-problem seems to be that you seriously underestimate the opportunity cost of getting/having Potions. You have to buy a Potion and you have to deal with the disadvantage of an extra dead card in your deck.

I think all of these will be addressed in day 3. except Orrery being overpriced. that should probably cost $2^ and be a cantrip. and Prophet being too easily exploitable. I don't know if I'm actually worried about that tho.
« Last Edit: August 01, 2019, 03:41:48 pm by spineflu »
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spineflu

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Re: spineflu, an idiot, designs fanspansions
« Reply #24 on: August 02, 2019, 02:42:13 pm »
0

Updated Orrery to be a cantrip and cost $2^

Part 3 of 4
Or: How to potions overpay without wrecking your deck.


Coffers but with potions.

Here's some vanilla applications:

an event that doesn't use a buy and has a variable cost


a combo treasure


a nonterminal cantrip-or-trasher


a festivillage

And a set of unique "occult" cards that borrowed from the Boons in terms of what does what.










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