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[Glooble]

Like, I guess its a fine day one case? It's completely wrong, but so subjective that there's nothing in it that I can argue against.

Preliminary thoughts on where joth falls on the town to scum spectrum?

Other than his case on me, nothing has set off my scum radar. I need to do a reread though.

Is joth town, null or scum? Why didn't you answer the question? Who are your scumbuddies?

vote: joth

[MiX]

1) Joth since you were so persistent on getting others to claim... and you know Awaclus isn't... and I0X is the new guy... either a reason for not claiming or claim it up pretty please.

I was being coy because there was a very specific circumstance where I might have been able to gotcha scum, but with your claim that dream is dead.

At the last minute, I voted yes for the duel. It was a change in my previous thinking. For one thing, ADK had been scumread by Glooble, who I tend to trust, and e wasn’t having an exceptionally townie game. It felt like they were both decent day 1 lynches. And partly I felt it would be better for the vote to be closer, for this scenario we’re in right now.

Here's a thing - joth is saying he, at least partially, based his vote on my scum case against ADK, which was actually against DatSwan. Joth had a whole day to decide yes or no. You'd think he would have reread. I did. But if he had reread he would have seen that my case was on Swan. This seems like an easier mistake for scum!joth to have made while coming up with a townie justification for his vote.

I didn't.

Twin duel let's go!

[MiX]

Oh my I didn't fully read the PPE, amazing. Let's gooo twin duel best duel!

[Glooble]

Don't get me wrong, I totally believe joth could confuse DatSwan and ADK, regardless of alignment. What I don't believe is that he would consider my reads as part of his decision-making process without going back and rereading my case first.

[jotheonah]

Don't get me wrong, I totally believe joth could confuse DatSwan and ADK, regardless of alignment. What I don't believe is that he would consider my reads as part of his decision-making process without going back and rereading my case first.

This is a solid thought process. But it is exactly what happened, because my switch from no to yes was last minute and I needed to get it in before deadline.

[jotheonah]

I'm flattered that you think I'm better than this as town, but the fact is my day 1 cases as town pretty much always suck (and often they're on DatSwan.)

But you're not scummy because the case was bad (though it was). You're scummy because the case felt insincere. Which, yes, is kind of subjective and hard to argue against. Sorry.

I think town Glooble just doesn't say anything until he has something to say. I think scum!Glooble worries that he's not saying enough and feels like he has to come up with a case so he'll look townie. And that's what that case looked like to me.

[EFHW]

So, I've been looking over joth's case against Glooble, and I'm settling on

vote: joth.

This just seems like a nothing case. I thought the post where Glooble makes his duel stance was pretty sensible, and so did joth - he's voting him for trying to sound sensible, but maybe Glooble just is sensible! And DatSwan did come off kind of scummy when he first came in.

[A Drowned Kernel]

If e and ADK are both town, I think we can almost certainly expect scum to have voted yes. But since there wasn't a duel, there's no incentive for scum to have claimed a yes vote- they would know, before anyone claimed, that there would be no way to refute an over-abundance of "no" votes, and a yes vote draws more suspicion. I think we are more likely to find scum among the "no" voters. Unfortunately, that group is huge, so it doesn't narrow things down very much.

This line of reasoning is exactly why I think scum would want to say they voted yes

[A Drowned Kernel]

joth's case on glooble doesn't seem particularly great to me, glooble's stated stance on the duel on day one was basically the same as a lot of people's, joth's case seem to me as insincere as he's saying glooble's was and honestly seems like he might be trying to backtrack on buddying glooble too much

[jotheonah]

This is not a do or die case for me. I like playing with Glooble and I'd rather not D1 lynch him. And certainly I could be wrong, though my gut says I'm not. So my question, as always, is … what else ya got?

[Debatepro]

In my limited experience, Glooble has a good town detector for Joth. I’m not sure scum Joth would be so careless to directly confront the person in the game who ~probably~ has the most insight into them. Plus in my last game, Joth was scummy AF and he was Town. I’m nullish on his case.

[A Drowned Kernel]

vote: joth

[Swowl]

I find it unlikely Joth is skum.

I also considered doing what he did (voting yes to try and limit the claim pools). Skum would not do this. It doesn't matter *if it looks good today*. At some point in time in the future we will look back and separate the pools. Skum!Joth does not want to be in a 1/3 pool (if it is 1/3) vs the counter no-pool of 8 or however many people.

Also, and this is coming from me so I guess take it FWIW... but he probably just made a mistake and mixed me and ADK up.

E is still the most suspicious of players around.

[Swowl]

prod request: 0iX

its his first game. probably let him get settled, this is a weird day 1.

[MiX]

Glooble's vote on joth is scummier than anything either of them did all day, I don't think all the case talk matters as much as Glooble's attempt to direct all attention to whoever cased him. It feels...TOO defensive. Like the scum motivation is so obvious you should just accept that's exactly what the motivation for that vote was. But I might need to reread the circumstances.

Also look as Glooble's stance regarding joth: it's a flip flop into a very serious vote. I don't like ti.

[Joseph2302]

prod request: 0iX

its his first game. probably let him get settled, this is a weird day 1.

True, but have they actually posted yet?

[Debatepro]

prod request: 0iX

its his first game. probably let him get settled, this is a weird day 1.

True, but have they actually posted yet?

2 posts after the start of the game.

[jotheonah]

prod request: 0iX

its his first game. probably let him get settled, this is a weird day 1.

He met Silver in the championship. He’s not a n00b.

[MiX]

prod request: 0iX

its his first game. probably let him get settled, this is a weird day 1.

He met Silver in the championship. He’s not a n00b.

So...uh...Swan and 0Ix aren't scumbuddies? I'll take that.

[Glooble]

If e and ADK are both town, I think we can almost certainly expect scum to have voted yes. But since there wasn't a duel, there's no incentive for scum to have claimed a yes vote- they would know, before anyone claimed, that there would be no way to refute an over-abundance of "no" votes, and a yes vote draws more suspicion. I think we are more likely to find scum among the "no" voters. Unfortunately, that group is huge, so it doesn't narrow things down very much.

This line of reasoning is exactly why I think scum would want to say they voted yes

Maybe we're looking at this the wrong way. If scum are thinking about this like wagons, they probably want some on, some off - some yes claims and some no claims.


Or if they wanted to push town into lynching a yes claim, maybe they would all want to vote no and put themselves in the larger group.

[EFHW]

If I were scum, I wouldn't try anything hinky with the duel voting. We maybe caught them unawares this time by not bringing up vote claiming until after the vote, but I doubt it. It's going to be more of a deterrent than anything, and I don't think speculation about yes or no voters will get us anywhere. I feel like we have been going in circles on this with nothing to show for it.

e's specific vote of "yes" when he was one of the combatants is really interesting. It seems like a crazy risk for scum to take, but low utility for town. It is also possible that he voted no and is claiming yes, but why do that? Could be for towncred, except it's not a very towny move. If he's town, generating discussion was pro-town but getting lynched isn't. Sometimes I'll go with something just to make things interesting - like if someone sends me a cookie in the night, I'll probably eat it (chocolate please). Being one of the combatants could seem fun to him. I'd like to hear more from him about how he made this decision.

[A Drowned Kernel]

If e and ADK are both town, I think we can almost certainly expect scum to have voted yes. But since there wasn't a duel, there's no incentive for scum to have claimed a yes vote- they would know, before anyone claimed, that there would be no way to refute an over-abundance of "no" votes, and a yes vote draws more suspicion. I think we are more likely to find scum among the "no" voters. Unfortunately, that group is huge, so it doesn't narrow things down very much.

This line of reasoning is exactly why I think scum would want to say they voted yes

Maybe we're looking at this the wrong way. If scum are thinking about this like wagons, they probably want some on, some off - some yes claims and some no claims.


Or if they wanted to push town into lynching a yes claim, maybe they would all want to vote no and put themselves in the larger group.

It's all WIFOM, though, because I think that scum can pretty easily see that at this point, claiming to have voted yes will win you townpoints

PPE: I feel like I have a scumread on joth to show for it

[A Drowned Kernel]

Here's a question for e: was there another player that, if you had been paired with, you would have voted "no"?

[jotheonah]

Can we get a vote count and a deadline reminder?

[Robz888]

Unvote I guess.

Still reading Joth as town, though.