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Author Topic: Potential Duration trashers, Schwerin Cathedral  (Read 1007 times)

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crj

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Potential Duration trashers, Schwerin Cathedral
« on: May 29, 2019, 07:47:45 pm »
+3

This thread has veered into speculation about what the card might do. It's a Duration, and it has an ecclesiastical name, so seems likely to be a trasher.

So what might it be?

My own wild speculation, which might be a nifty idea for a card in any case:

Schwerin Cathedral
Action, $3

Trash up to 3 cards from your hand.
At the start of your next turn, trash the same number of cards from your hand.
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Holger

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Re: Potential Duration trashers, Schwerin Cathedral
« Reply #1 on: May 30, 2019, 06:50:22 am »
0

This thread has veered into speculation about what the card might do. It's a Duration, and it has an ecclesiastical name, so seems likely to be a trasher.

So what might it be?

My own wild speculation, which might be a nifty idea for a card in any case:

Schwerin Cathedral
Action, $3

Trash up to 3 cards from your hand.
At the start of your next turn, trash the same number of cards from your hand.

That sounds interesting, though I expect the real card will not be a pure trasher (because it would be rather unflattering, especially for casual or non-players).

I expect this is slightly stronger than chapel: if you draw it turn 3 you can trash 6 cards on your second shuffle (and at least 3 more on the third shuffle ). But if you draw it turn 4 you can only trash three cards each on the second and third shuffle.

It would also be interesting to increase the trashing to "up to 5 cards". Then you risk having to trash some good cards from the duration effect. But it may be too good when choosing to trash four cards.
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Seprix

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Re: Potential Duration trashers, Schwerin Cathedral
« Reply #2 on: May 30, 2019, 12:47:55 pm »
0

This thread has veered into speculation about what the card might do. It's a Duration, and it has an ecclesiastical name, so seems likely to be a trasher.

So what might it be?

My own wild speculation, which might be a nifty idea for a card in any case:

Schwerin Cathedral
Action, $3

Trash up to 3 cards from your hand.
At the start of your next turn, trash the same number of cards from your hand.

that card would be absolutely busted and way better than chapel.
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Gubump

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Re: Potential Duration trashers, Schwerin Cathedral
« Reply #3 on: May 30, 2019, 01:38:41 pm »
0

This thread has veered into speculation about what the card might do. It's a Duration, and it has an ecclesiastical name, so seems likely to be a trasher.

So what might it be?

My own wild speculation, which might be a nifty idea for a card in any case:

Schwerin Cathedral
Action, $3

Trash up to 3 cards from your hand.
At the start of your next turn, trash the same number of cards from your hand.

that card would be absolutely busted and way better than chapel.

Not really. The second trashing is blind and forced, so this card would only really work in the early game. Chapel still works in the mid and late game if you're playing with on-trash effects and/or junkers.
« Last Edit: May 30, 2019, 01:40:36 pm by Gubump »
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GendoIkari

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Re: Potential Duration trashers, Schwerin Cathedral
« Reply #4 on: May 30, 2019, 02:02:30 pm »
+1

This thread has veered into speculation about what the card might do. It's a Duration, and it has an ecclesiastical name, so seems likely to be a trasher.

So what might it be?

My own wild speculation, which might be a nifty idea for a card in any case:

Schwerin Cathedral
Action, $3

Trash up to 3 cards from your hand.
At the start of your next turn, trash the same number of cards from your hand.

that card would be absolutely busted and way better than chapel.

Not really. The second trashing is blind and forced, so this card would only really work in the early game. Chapel still works in the mid and late game if you're playing with on-trash effects and/or junkers.

Even in early game, the fact that this is a Duration means that you are more likely than not to not get to play it on your third shuffle; while Chapel usually gets played on both second and third shuffle. I think more often than not, by the time you are shuffling for the third time, Chapel will have trashed 7-8 cards, while this will have trashed 6.
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crj

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Re: Potential Duration trashers, Schwerin Cathedral
« Reply #5 on: May 30, 2019, 04:28:50 pm »
+1

Even in early game, the fact that this is a Duration means that you are more likely than not to not get to play it on your third shuffle; while Chapel usually gets played on both second and third shuffle. I think more often than not, by the time you are shuffling for the third time, Chapel will have trashed 7-8 cards, while this will have trashed 6.
I didn't bother to do the maths, but I had a hunch it being a Duration would matter more than one might expect at first glance. The thinner your deck, the more it matters if a card is a Duration, so it self-antisynergises.

Personally, my main concern is that it might be too swingy in terms of what different players end up trashing at-start-of-next-turn.
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Frolouch

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Re: Potential Duration trashers, Schwerin Cathedral
« Reply #6 on: May 30, 2019, 05:00:46 pm »
0

I think the card will have something to do with gaining villagers/coffers in relation to the cost of trashed cards.

It's the first promo to come out after Renaissance, so I assume it will play into the themes from that expansion.
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hhelibebcnofnena

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Re: Potential Duration trashers, Schwerin Cathedral
« Reply #7 on: May 30, 2019, 05:30:30 pm »
+1

I think the card will have something to do with gaining villagers/coffers in relation to the cost of trashed cards.

It's the first promo to come out after Renaissance, so I assume it will play into the themes from that expansion.

I doubt it; it's a promo so it probably won't require any extra materials (like Coffers or Villagers). If it does play into Renaissance themes, I would expect that to mean it has an Artifact.
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ipofanes

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Re: Potential Duration trashers, Schwerin Cathedral
« Reply #8 on: June 03, 2019, 11:31:44 am »
0

Schwerin Cathedral is in Brick Gothic style which predates Renaissance.
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ipofanes

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Re: Potential Duration trashers, Schwerin Cathedral
« Reply #9 on: June 03, 2019, 11:37:41 am »
0

Schwerin Cathedral
Action, $3

Trash up to 3 cards from your hand.
At the start of your next turn, trash the same number of cards from your hand.

To cater for people like me with attention issues, I would phrase this as:

Place up to 3 cards underneath Schwerin Cathedral.
At the start of your next turn, trash these cards and an equal number of cards from your hand.
Schwerin Cathedral remains in play until next turn's cleanup phase.
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hhelibebcnofnena

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Re: Potential Duration trashers, Schwerin Cathedral
« Reply #10 on: June 03, 2019, 12:41:30 pm »
0

Schwerin Cathedral
Action, $3

Trash up to 3 cards from your hand.
At the start of your next turn, trash the same number of cards from your hand.

To cater for people like me with attention issues, I would phrase this as:

Place up to 3 cards underneath Schwerin Cathedral.
At the start of your next turn, trash these cards and an equal number of cards from your hand.
Schwerin Cathedral remains in play until next turn's cleanup phase.

If we're changing the wording:
1. Change "place" to "set aside".
2. Change "Schwerin Cathedral" to "this" (set aside up to 3 cards underneath this)
3. You don't need the remain in play clause.
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Commodore Chuckles

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Re: Potential Duration trashers, Schwerin Cathedral
« Reply #11 on: June 03, 2019, 09:07:12 pm »
+1

So, I was thinking about the design contest thread, and since this is a Duration...

Schwerin Cathedral
Action - Duration - $3
Now and at the start of your next turn: +$1.
While this is in play, when another player gains a card, trash a card from your hand.
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majiponi

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Re: Potential Duration trashers, Schwerin Cathedral
« Reply #12 on: June 03, 2019, 11:53:22 pm »
0

So, I was thinking about the design contest thread, and since this is a Duration...

Schwerin Cathedral
Action - Duration - $3
Now and at the start of your next turn: +$1.
While this is in play, when another player gains a card, trash a card from your hand.

Oh, I'll buy Skulk.
Me, too.
Me, three.

It is useless on 4-player game, isn't it?
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crj

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Re: Potential Duration trashers, Schwerin Cathedral
« Reply #13 on: June 04, 2019, 08:00:50 am »
0

It could work as a "you may", though.
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Awaclus

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Re: Potential Duration trashers, Schwerin Cathedral
« Reply #14 on: June 04, 2019, 08:17:38 am »
0

This thread has veered into speculation about what the card might do. It's a Duration, and it has an ecclesiastical name, so seems likely to be a trasher.

So what might it be?

My own wild speculation, which might be a nifty idea for a card in any case:

Schwerin Cathedral
Action, $3

Trash up to 3 cards from your hand.
At the start of your next turn, trash the same number of cards from your hand.

that card would be absolutely busted and way better than chapel.

Not really. The second trashing is blind and forced, so this card would only really work in the early game. Chapel still works in the mid and late game if you're playing with on-trash effects and/or junkers.

Even in early game, the fact that this is a Duration means that you are more likely than not to not get to play it on your third shuffle; while Chapel usually gets played on both second and third shuffle. I think more often than not, by the time you are shuffling for the third time, Chapel will have trashed 7-8 cards, while this will have trashed 6.

It's worth noting that getting rid of all your Coppers as soon as possible is not really something you want to do because that prevents your economy from growing naturally while you're building up an engine. For that reason, on your second Chapel play, you probably want to skip trashing the Coppers and instead use them to buy something. This proposed Schwerin Cathedral is substantially faster at trashing Estates than Chapel is, which boosts your economy instead of holding it back and is therefore stronger.
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Commodore Chuckles

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Re: Potential Duration trashers, Schwerin Cathedral
« Reply #15 on: June 04, 2019, 07:40:38 pm »
0

It could work as a "you may", though.

It wouldn't necessarily need "you may". Trashing 5 junk cards and then doing nothing else is a turn well spent in my book. It would just outlive its usefulness really fast and you'd have to be careful when you play it in some games. I think "you may" would be less interesting, and anyway, it wouldn't fit the rules of that design contest.
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GendoIkari

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Re: Potential Duration trashers, Schwerin Cathedral
« Reply #16 on: June 04, 2019, 09:18:48 pm »
0

It could work as a "you may", though.

It wouldn't necessarily need "you may". Trashing 5 junk cards and then doing nothing else is a turn well spent in my book. It would just outlive its usefulness really fast and you'd have to be careful when you play it in some games. I think "you may" would be less interesting, and anyway, it wouldn't fit the rules of that design contest.

The problem is you basically couldn’t ever play it after the very first time you have it in your hand. Playing it any other time means both trashing something you wanted and losing a turn.
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Seprix

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Re: Potential Duration trashers, Schwerin Cathedral
« Reply #17 on: June 04, 2019, 10:02:58 pm »
+1

This thread has veered into speculation about what the card might do. It's a Duration, and it has an ecclesiastical name, so seems likely to be a trasher.

So what might it be?

My own wild speculation, which might be a nifty idea for a card in any case:

Schwerin Cathedral
Action, $3

Trash up to 3 cards from your hand.
At the start of your next turn, trash the same number of cards from your hand.

that card would be absolutely busted and way better than chapel.

Not really. The second trashing is blind and forced, so this card would only really work in the early game. Chapel still works in the mid and late game if you're playing with on-trash effects and/or junkers.

Even in early game, the fact that this is a Duration means that you are more likely than not to not get to play it on your third shuffle; while Chapel usually gets played on both second and third shuffle. I think more often than not, by the time you are shuffling for the third time, Chapel will have trashed 7-8 cards, while this will have trashed 6.

Okay maybe "way better" was an exaggeration because chapel is chapel, but it would still be better than chapel, hands down. Yes please, I'll trash 6 cards in a shuffle for 100, Alex. The wording also suggests you can play it and trash nothing, so you can play it to get it out of your shuffle for free once you're done.
« Last Edit: June 04, 2019, 10:04:06 pm by Seprix »
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Re: Potential Duration trashers, Schwerin Cathedral
« Reply #18 on: June 04, 2019, 11:46:30 pm »
0

It could work as a "you may", though.

It wouldn't necessarily need "you may". Trashing 5 junk cards and then doing nothing else is a turn well spent in my book. It would just outlive its usefulness really fast and you'd have to be careful when you play it in some games. I think "you may" would be less interesting, and anyway, it wouldn't fit the rules of that design contest.

The problem is you basically couldn’t ever play it after the very first time you have it in your hand. Playing it any other time means both trashing something you wanted and losing a turn.

It's worth pointing out that we're talking about the fringe case of more than 2 players and the presence of a cheap card that causes you gain something else when you buy it.
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Gubump

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Re: Potential Duration trashers, Schwerin Cathedral
« Reply #19 on: June 04, 2019, 11:50:01 pm »
+1

It's worth pointing out that we're talking about the fringe case of more than 2 players and the presence of a cheap card that causes you gain something else when you buy it.

I almost never play with just 2 players. There are some games that are fun with 2, but Dominion usually isn't one of them IMO.
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crj

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Re: Potential Duration trashers, Schwerin Cathedral
« Reply #20 on: June 05, 2019, 06:54:16 am »
0

The wording also suggests you can play it and trash nothing, so you can play it to get it out of your shuffle for free once you're done.
Naah. It'd work like Gear: if it's not going to have any effect next turn, it cleans up this turn.

Besides, actions aren't free. You could have a Ruins-Duration which was just "this remains in play until next turn" and people still wouldn't play it at every opportunity.
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Re: Potential Duration trashers, Schwerin Cathedral
« Reply #21 on: June 05, 2019, 08:06:02 am »
0

It's worth pointing out that we're talking about the fringe case of more than 2 players and the presence of a cheap card that causes you gain something else when you buy it.

I almost never play with just 2 players. There are some games that are fun with 2, but Dominion usually isn't one of them IMO.

3 or 4 players is nice provided the players don't start complaining when they inevitably have to wait for their turn. The people I would normally play 3P with don't fit that requirement so I only play 2P. But when I do get the chance to play 3 or 4 player Dominion with other people, I enjoy it.
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Re: Potential Duration trashers, Schwerin Cathedral
« Reply #22 on: June 05, 2019, 09:30:44 am »
+2

4 players is nice provided that the other two players have their own set of Dominion and are playing a separate game.
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Holger

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Re: Potential Duration trashers, Schwerin Cathedral
« Reply #23 on: June 05, 2019, 02:18:48 pm »
0

So, I was thinking about the design contest thread, and since this is a Duration...

Schwerin Cathedral
Action - Duration - $3
Now and at the start of your next turn: +$1.
While this is in play, when another player gains a card, trash a card from your hand.

Oh, I'll buy Skulk.
Me, too.
Me, three.

It is useless on 4-player game, isn't it?

You could just restrict it to the player to your right to make it independent of player number, like Smugglers does.
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Holger

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Re: Potential Duration trashers, Schwerin Cathedral
« Reply #24 on: June 05, 2019, 02:46:40 pm »
0

This thread has veered into speculation about what the card might do. It's a Duration, and it has an ecclesiastical name, so seems likely to be a trasher.

So what might it be?

My own wild speculation, which might be a nifty idea for a card in any case:

Schwerin Cathedral
Action, $3

Trash up to 3 cards from your hand.
At the start of your next turn, trash the same number of cards from your hand.

that card would be absolutely busted and way better than chapel.

Not really. The second trashing is blind and forced, so this card would only really work in the early game. Chapel still works in the mid and late game if you're playing with on-trash effects and/or junkers.

Even in early game, the fact that this is a Duration means that you are more likely than not to not get to play it on your third shuffle; while Chapel usually gets played on both second and third shuffle. I think more often than not, by the time you are shuffling for the third time, Chapel will have trashed 7-8 cards, while this will have trashed 6.

Okay maybe "way better" was an exaggeration because chapel is chapel, but it would still be better than chapel, hands down. Yes please, I'll trash 6 cards in a shuffle for 100, Alex. The wording also suggests you can play it and trash nothing, so you can play it to get it out of your shuffle for free once you're done.

Trashing 6 cards in a shuffle is the best case with this Schwerin Cathedral, not the average or typical case (it has probability <50%).
In the typical case where you draw it either on turn 3 or 4, Chapel will have trashed 4 cards by the end of turn 4, and SC 4.5 on average. That small trashing advantage is offset by the latter's higher cost and the fact that its trashing is spread over two turns. So if you draw it turn 3, you'll at best have one other good card (> $2) in your deck after turn 4, while with Chapel you have one more useful turn on the second shuffle and therefore usually two $3-$5 cards in your deck after turn 4.
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Re: Potential Duration trashers, Schwerin Cathedral
« Reply #25 on: June 11, 2019, 04:59:32 am »
0

I doubt it; it's a promo so it probably won't require any extra materials (like Coffers or Villagers). If it does play into Renaissance themes, I would expect that to mean it has an Artifact.

Schwerin Cathedral
Action/Duration - $3
Now and at the start of your next 2 turns, set aside a card from your hand. Once you have set aside 3 cards this way, trash them. If all 3 cards have the same name take the Holy Blood.

Holy Blood - Artifact
Worth 3VP if you have this at the end of the game
« Last Edit: June 11, 2019, 08:06:23 pm by NoMoreFun »
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Re: Potential Duration trashers, Schwerin Cathedral
« Reply #26 on: June 11, 2019, 08:57:43 am »
+1

I doubt it; it's a promo so it probably won't require any extra materials (like Coffers or Villagers). If it does play into Renaissance themes, I would expect that to mean it has an Artifact.

Schwerin Cathedral
Action/Duration - $3
Now and at the start of your next 2 turns, set aside a card from your hand. Once you have set aside 3 cards this way, trash them. If all 3 cards were copies of each other, take the Holy Blood.

Holy Blood - Artifact
Worth 3VP if you have this at the end of the game

I would say "have the same name" instead of "were copies of each other".
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