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Author Topic: M123: Doomsday Mafia (Town and Survivor win!)  (Read 154782 times)

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gkrieg13

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Re: M123: Doomsday Mafia (Day 1)
« Reply #225 on: June 04, 2019, 08:05:16 pm »

If ash is town, ash is easy to mislynch, so getting a wagon going on him is a pretty good idea.

For scum? Aren't you voting for him?

Not any more.
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jotheonah

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Re: M123: Doomsday Mafia (Day 1)
« Reply #226 on: June 04, 2019, 09:31:48 pm »

I cannot get into this game guys. Try as I might.

That's OK. It means I won't feel guilty about...

vote: jotheonah

Not expecting to change my vote from this.

Are you expecting to explain your vote?
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ashersky

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Re: M123: Doomsday Mafia (Day 1)
« Reply #227 on: June 04, 2019, 10:16:46 pm »

For the record,  I don't actually scumread Swan for the hot take on plans.  I think the "I'm going to dig up an old quote" thing is more often from town trying to do a good thing. 

I don't think finding possible or actual contradictions to previous statements from previous games is all that useful, though.  But I think the idea that someone would want to do that is in general a town sentiment.
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ashersky

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Re: M123: Doomsday Mafia (Day 1)
« Reply #228 on: June 04, 2019, 10:17:56 pm »

Anyone else having the "not secure" problem on f.ds, btw?  Like the https thing is not working.
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EFHW

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Re: M123: Doomsday Mafia (Day 1)
« Reply #229 on: June 04, 2019, 10:32:11 pm »

unvote. DatSwan does this kind of thing a lot. It has gotten him lynched correctly and gotten him mislynched. My opinion is that scum isn't going to try a purposeful misdirect this early in the game.
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EFHW

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Re: M123: Doomsday Mafia (Day 1)
« Reply #230 on: June 04, 2019, 10:41:24 pm »

I cannot get into this game guys. Try as I might.

One thing I'm thinking about is mcmc's voting bloc. How does scum react to this idea (assuming, for the purposes of argument that it was a serious plan)? Do they want to be part of the bloc so they can steer it? Do they want to avoid it so their vote is less constrained?

I found MiX's reaction to the bloc -- really wanting to get in and even voting for himself to prove his loyalty -- to be the only interesting reaction. I think it might be scummy.

I know most of us saw that whole thing as a little silly, but I can see scum seeing it as a little scary and feeling the need to react to it, or become part of it, as quickly as possible.

I guess that's enough for me to vote: MiX
The bloc was never going to be a thing. I guess there was that one game where someone was looking to make non-voting pacts. Was that MiX? But day 1 who would trust multiple other people enough to make a bloc? So wanting to join looks like playing along to me.

If there WAS going to be a real bloc, then scum would want in.
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A Drowned Kernel

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Re: M123: Doomsday Mafia (Day 1)
« Reply #231 on: June 04, 2019, 11:26:39 pm »

Of those, I don't really like the PPS wagon, I like the Datswan wagon, and don't think the MiX wagon is for very good reasons, although I think the people on the MiX wagon are probably town.

vote: Datswan

Am I voting gkrieg yet? vote: gkrieg
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A Drowned Kernel

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Re: M123: Doomsday Mafia (Day 1)
« Reply #232 on: June 04, 2019, 11:28:33 pm »

Right now I'm feeling towny on: mix, SS, ash

Anyone else is pretty much up for grabs
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Uncleeurope

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Re: M123: Doomsday Mafia (Day 1)
« Reply #233 on: June 04, 2019, 11:37:55 pm »

Yup, Vote: gkrieg is fine with me.
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Re: M123: Doomsday Mafia (Day 1)
« Reply #234 on: June 05, 2019, 01:25:44 am »

gkrieg's vote on me for the plan thing is super lazy.

Basically, all {ashersky,plan} posts are lazy and need to stop.  It was a meta thing like a year and a half ago.  It's personally exhausting and annoying at this point.

Yes, I still think about things and occasionally have plan-like ideas.  No, it is not an important thing anymore.

I mean, if anything, I definitely plan more as scum anyway.

I read this and then immediately went digging for this:

Also, for the record, hating on ashersky plans is just a hipster contrarianism thing to do. As Awaclus points out subconsciously, the efficacy of ashersky plans notwithstanding, the airing of, discussion of, and sometimes demolishing of ashersky plans is always pro-town. And generally they are pro-town regardless of my own alignment.

If you want to complain about ashersky plans, the correct way is to say it has zero bearing on my alignment so I deserve no town points for them. Unfortunately, I often do get scum points if I don’t have one, so partly this is all your fault.

Separate to this, using waiting for the plan as an excuse to not otherwise engage is not an acceptable action.

Do Ash plans have zero bearing on your alignment, or do you do them more often as skum?

I hate phone posting. Lost my response.

Gist: both, there is a difference between “having a plan” and planning. Ask my scum partners from forever—I plan. So should you, btw.

The plan that gkrieg talks about is the public one I was forced to produce every game for years when I was active and one of the “best” players here. It became a farce.

You want a “plan”?  I can make one up. If you want my planning, check out our scum QT.  I already told you what I think you should do if you got PGO.

Plan being the aside point - I was more fixated on the contradictions between the two posts.

I am sure if I search hard enough I can find you contradict yourself in two different mafia games.

Vote: Datswan

This vote would be null if I voted for ash. Since I did not, that means this vote is because....hell if I know actually, but it makes it skummier.
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Town:  14 wins, 14 losses (1 MVP)
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Re: M123: Doomsday Mafia (Day 1)
« Reply #235 on: June 05, 2019, 01:26:37 am »

I'm realizing that DatSwan is getting a meta for imprecision. Anyone else I would have voted for misreading ash (plans vs. planning) and mischaracterizing a post. I don't think that's a great meta for us to accept complacently, so vote: DatSwan anyway.

PPE: Glooble

I do not want this meta and I did not mis characterize anything.
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Town:  14 wins, 14 losses (1 MVP)
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3-Party: 4 wins, 1 loss

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Re: M123: Doomsday Mafia (Day 1)
« Reply #236 on: June 05, 2019, 01:36:13 am »


In what do you base your suspicion that scum is more likely to misinterpret and mischaracterize ash's statement?

Not sure I understand your question. Misinterpret and Mischaracterize are very different things.

Scum is more likely to mischaracterize ash's statement because that helps them win. Intentionally mischaracterizing another player's statement as town is very bad play.

Scum isn't any more likely to misinterpret ash's statement, but I don't think that's what happened here.


Intentionally misinterpretting exists, but I suppose that's just mischaracterizing?

How does mischaracterizing ash's statement help scum win?

If ash is town, ash is easy to mislynch, so getting a wagon going on him is a pretty good idea.

1) So... I never made an attempt at all to get a wagon Ash.

2) By your own logic, "If Swan is Town, then GK is skummy for mischaracterizing their statement". Or is that not what is happening here and you are just mis interpreting?

3) This is a game based on unknown opinions and reads by a community of players. You could literally apply your concept to ANY post that is not already verified as a fact about another player.
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Town:  14 wins, 14 losses (1 MVP)
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3-Party: 4 wins, 1 loss

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Re: M123: Doomsday Mafia (Day 1)
« Reply #237 on: June 05, 2019, 01:36:51 am »

Anyone else having the "not secure" problem on f.ds, btw?  Like the https thing is not working.


yes - for weeks now
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Re: M123: Doomsday Mafia (Day 1)
« Reply #238 on: June 05, 2019, 01:37:52 am »

I'm realizing that DatSwan is getting a meta for imprecision. Anyone else I would have voted for misreading ash (plans vs. planning) and mischaracterizing a post. I don't think that's a great meta for us to accept complacently, so vote: DatSwan anyway.

PPE: Glooble

We did that last time, and that's how we lynched scum. I seriously doubt he would do this on purpose this game.

He's not doing the same thing though. In that game DatSwan spent a lot of day 1 just straight up pretending to have misread crucial portions of the setup (I assume to make people think he couldn't possibly be scum, since scum think harder about that stuff and have a QT to discuss it before the game starts.)  That's very different than presenting a misleading case on another player.

I have to more to say later but for the record, that was scum!swan sincerely misunderstanding the setup

ADK was my skum buddy and the skum thread is open now for that game. Please feel free to go back and check that I was sadly just being a freekin idiot.
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Town:  14 wins, 14 losses (1 MVP)
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3-Party: 4 wins, 1 loss

Swowl

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Re: M123: Doomsday Mafia (Day 1)
« Reply #239 on: June 05, 2019, 01:42:02 am »

I also fail to see in what world Swan would think that tidbit would make people scumread ash.

Really? Ash basically said (sorry can’t quote I’m on mobile) “I’m more likely to make a plan as scum” and several months ago said “my plans aren’t alignment indicative”. The implicit argument in Swan’s Question is “he contradicted himself so one of the statements must be a lie”. And since the older statement was in a game where ash was town, the further implication is that it is the quote from this game that is, in fact, the lie.

That was my interpretation anyway. But maybe I’m reading too much into Swan’s post.

Anyway, this has been a fun Socratic discussion but my phone is about to die so I will be back in a few hours probably.

To clarify - my intention was exactly to insinuate this... but only to Ash to get an answer. I found their response about as towny as I suppose I could expect. To be specific... ash slightly deflected the point by making it about his lack of planning thus far. I doubt skum in that position risks doing that instead of simply battling back the way others ended up doing for him.
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Town:  14 wins, 14 losses (1 MVP)
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MiX

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Re: M123: Doomsday Mafia (Day 1)
« Reply #240 on: June 05, 2019, 03:27:03 am »

I cannot get into this game guys. Try as I might.

That's OK. It means I won't feel guilty about...

vote: jotheonah

Not expecting to change my vote from this.

Explain this and I will sheep.

Yup, Vote: gkrieg is fine with me.

Same as above.
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Uncleeurope

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Re: M123: Doomsday Mafia (Day 1)
« Reply #241 on: June 05, 2019, 03:31:15 am »

I cannot get into this game guys. Try as I might.

That's OK. It means I won't feel guilty about...

vote: jotheonah

Not expecting to change my vote from this.

Explain this and I will sheep.

Yup, Vote: gkrieg is fine with me.

Same as above.

But I don't feeeeel like it.
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MiX

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Re: M123: Doomsday Mafia (Day 1)
« Reply #242 on: June 05, 2019, 03:32:12 am »

All the votes on Swan are lazy and he has done nothing scummy.

Gkrieg, can you explain why Swan is scum?

unvote. DatSwan does this kind of thing a lot. It has gotten him lynched correctly and gotten him mislynched. My opinion is that scum isn't going to try a purposeful misdirect this early in the game.

Vote: EFHW

PPE: Fine, I guess you're just bussing then.
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Uncleeurope

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Re: M123: Doomsday Mafia (Day 1)
« Reply #243 on: June 05, 2019, 03:35:34 am »

All the votes on Swan are lazy and he has done nothing scummy.

I agree.

Vote: EFHW

I disagree. (At least based on that post you quoted)

PPE: Fine, I guess you're just bussing then.

I disagree.
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faust

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Re: M123: Doomsday Mafia (Day 1)
« Reply #244 on: June 05, 2019, 04:31:14 am »

Vote Count 1.4

MiX (3): pingpongsam, Debatepro, jotheonah
pingpongsam (1): silverspawn
DatSwan (3): 2.71828....., Glooble, gkrieg13
jotheonah (1): pubby
gkrieg13 (2): A Drowned Kernel, Uncleeurope
EFHW (1): MiX

Not Voting (4): DatSwan, ashersky, mcmcsalot, EFHW

With 15 alive, it takes 8 to lynch. Day 1 ends on June 10, 2019, 10:00:00 am.
« Last Edit: June 09, 2019, 03:35:33 pm by faust »
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Re: M123: Doomsday Mafia (Day 1)
« Reply #245 on: June 05, 2019, 06:03:01 am »

gkrieg's vote on me for the plan thing is super lazy.

Basically, all {ashersky,plan} posts are lazy and need to stop.  It was a meta thing like a year and a half ago.  It's personally exhausting and annoying at this point.

Yes, I still think about things and occasionally have plan-like ideas.  No, it is not an important thing anymore.

I mean, if anything, I definitely plan more as scum anyway.

I read this and then immediately went digging for this:

Also, for the record, hating on ashersky plans is just a hipster contrarianism thing to do. As Awaclus points out subconsciously, the efficacy of ashersky plans notwithstanding, the airing of, discussion of, and sometimes demolishing of ashersky plans is always pro-town. And generally they are pro-town regardless of my own alignment.

If you want to complain about ashersky plans, the correct way is to say it has zero bearing on my alignment so I deserve no town points for them. Unfortunately, I often do get scum points if I don’t have one, so partly this is all your fault.

Separate to this, using waiting for the plan as an excuse to not otherwise engage is not an acceptable action.

Do Ash plans have zero bearing on your alignment, or do you do them more often as skum?

I hate phone posting. Lost my response.

Gist: both, there is a difference between “having a plan” and planning. Ask my scum partners from forever—I plan. So should you, btw.

The plan that gkrieg talks about is the public one I was forced to produce every game for years when I was active and one of the “best” players here. It became a farce.

You want a “plan”?  I can make one up. If you want my planning, check out our scum QT.  I already told you what I think you should do if you got PGO.

Plan being the aside point - I was more fixated on the contradictions between the two posts.

I am sure if I search hard enough I can find you contradict yourself in two different mafia games.

Vote: Datswan

This vote would be null if I voted for ash. Since I did not, that means this vote is because....hell if I know actually, but it makes it skummier.

Because accusing someone of being scummy and not voting then makes you...... Townie?
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Uncleeurope

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Re: M123: Doomsday Mafia (Day 1)
« Reply #246 on: June 05, 2019, 07:03:17 am »

Vote: e
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Re: M123: Doomsday Mafia (Day 1)
« Reply #247 on: June 05, 2019, 07:57:05 am »

Anyone else having the "not secure" problem on f.ds, btw?  Like the https thing is not working.

Nah, if anything my insecurities are lessened here.
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A Drowned Kernel

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Re: M123: Doomsday Mafia (Day 1)
« Reply #248 on: June 05, 2019, 09:17:46 am »

joth, do you still like your vote on mix?
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Re: M123: Doomsday Mafia (Day 1)
« Reply #249 on: June 05, 2019, 09:28:28 am »


I have to more to say later but for the record, that was scum!swan sincerely misunderstanding the setup

ADK was my skum buddy and the skum thread is open now for that game. Please feel free to go back and check that I was sadly just being a freekin idiot.

I did check the scum QT. Here's what I found. It's interesting.

Here is a quote from DatSwan, Night 0, in the scum QT for the game in question:

Quote
4) Odd Night Promoter - This role is the most important thing to exist in the game imo. We know they exist, but on Day 2 it is unlikely that Town will know if the promoter is Town or Skum, which works in our favor. Combine that with the fact that they have no idea who town or skum is and could be setting up a Town V Town situation... if we see fit we can def get rid of them before they get a shot #2.

And here is his first post in the game itself:

Hey everyone! Good to have another game on here

Summary of thoughts:

1) Promoter Claim - Since we don't know if there is a Promoter, combined with the chance that there is a Mafia Promoter instead of a Town Promoter who could claim and then even "prove it" if we were to force the target options on them... I am not seeing a super upside for a Promoter Claim. Additionally, the Town Promoter is potentially a very strong role if I understand it correctly... but its value only grows as the game goes on. They get to enhance reads, isolate based on claims, etc... and all of that increases the chances of finding good targets. So yeah... I think I am against the Promoter Claim because I think Skum would probably want to get rid of them.

2) Joth is def the Jester.

Bolding mine. I can't see how you can read these two quotes and think scum!DatSwan was sincerely confused about the setup.

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I think town!Glooble pointing to something as a scum tell and then shortly thereafter doing that thing is a lot more likely than scum!Glooble doing that.

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