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Author Topic: M123: Doomsday Mafia (Town and Survivor win!)  (Read 154806 times)

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ashersky

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Re: M123: Doomsday Mafia (Day 1)
« Reply #150 on: June 03, 2019, 10:38:06 pm »

As for the setup, I don't see any particular reason why the game ends on N1.  Is it technically possible given the setup?  Yes.  But it'd pretty unlikely, even given my terrible knowledge of statistics and probability.

5 scum + D1 mislynch + 2 PGOs being targeted separately by townies + N1 Town NKed + N1 Town Vigged = 5v5 on D2 open.  But man, no way that ever happens.

There's also nothing scummy about laying this all out -- if I can figure it out, so can scum.

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ashersky

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Re: M123: Doomsday Mafia (Day 1)
« Reply #151 on: June 03, 2019, 10:39:59 pm »

I think not talking about how certain roles should be played (if they exist) is a better bit of advice, possibly.  A player's skill level could make the difference there, but without knowing alignments, it's tough to know if we want to help.
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Re: M123: Doomsday Mafia (Day 1)
« Reply #152 on: June 04, 2019, 12:18:36 am »

I hope we don't do another misbegotten ashersky lynch this game. Those last few posts read very town to me
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Swowl

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Re: M123: Doomsday Mafia (Day 1)
« Reply #153 on: June 04, 2019, 02:32:31 am »

Hey all

I am going to assume I am missing something regarding the game, because I do not see how set up discussion here is bad (at least compared to... literally every other game I have played on this site where it is deemed either good, or just a nuisance). This is the first time while I have played it has been viewed as "bad".

If anything there is ambiguity surrounding all options in this set up more so than most we play.


*Insert standard wall post where I go over the details that I am leaving out because "talking about the set up is bad"*


If you read the above, or the set up, you will notice there are essentially 3 levels of information a player can have:

1) Skum - Know what they picked/have. They know how many other roles outside of the template one's exist. They don't know who is what role.

2) Town - Know themselves. Know what roles exist in the game. Same as always.

3) Third Party - Knows their role. Knows what roles exist in the game. Same as it could always be.


So, I don't get why people are opposed to the idea. I also do not see a huge upside I suppose. I think I find the thought of being against talking about it skummy though.
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Swowl

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Re: M123: Doomsday Mafia (Day 1)
« Reply #154 on: June 04, 2019, 02:34:35 am »

gkrieg's vote on me for the plan thing is super lazy.

Basically, all {ashersky,plan} posts are lazy and need to stop.  It was a meta thing like a year and a half ago.  It's personally exhausting and annoying at this point.

Yes, I still think about things and occasionally have plan-like ideas.  No, it is not an important thing anymore.

I mean, if anything, I definitely plan more as scum anyway.

I read this and then immediately went digging for this:

Also, for the record, hating on ashersky plans is just a hipster contrarianism thing to do. As Awaclus points out subconsciously, the efficacy of ashersky plans notwithstanding, the airing of, discussion of, and sometimes demolishing of ashersky plans is always pro-town. And generally they are pro-town regardless of my own alignment.

If you want to complain about ashersky plans, the correct way is to say it has zero bearing on my alignment so I deserve no town points for them. Unfortunately, I often do get scum points if I don’t have one, so partly this is all your fault.

Separate to this, using waiting for the plan as an excuse to not otherwise engage is not an acceptable action.

Do Ash plans have zero bearing on your alignment, or do you do them more often as skum?
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Town:  14 wins, 14 losses (1 MVP)
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Uncleeurope

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Re: M123: Doomsday Mafia (Day 1)
« Reply #155 on: June 04, 2019, 03:01:18 am »

I think the main concern people have with setup talk is connected to traitors.

I dunno, though.

Nor do I care, really.

But whatevs.

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ashersky

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Re: M123: Doomsday Mafia (Day 1)
« Reply #156 on: June 04, 2019, 05:42:35 am »

gkrieg's vote on me for the plan thing is super lazy.

Basically, all {ashersky,plan} posts are lazy and need to stop.  It was a meta thing like a year and a half ago.  It's personally exhausting and annoying at this point.

Yes, I still think about things and occasionally have plan-like ideas.  No, it is not an important thing anymore.

I mean, if anything, I definitely plan more as scum anyway.

I read this and then immediately went digging for this:

Also, for the record, hating on ashersky plans is just a hipster contrarianism thing to do. As Awaclus points out subconsciously, the efficacy of ashersky plans notwithstanding, the airing of, discussion of, and sometimes demolishing of ashersky plans is always pro-town. And generally they are pro-town regardless of my own alignment.

If you want to complain about ashersky plans, the correct way is to say it has zero bearing on my alignment so I deserve no town points for them. Unfortunately, I often do get scum points if I don’t have one, so partly this is all your fault.

Separate to this, using waiting for the plan as an excuse to not otherwise engage is not an acceptable action.

Do Ash plans have zero bearing on your alignment, or do you do them more often as skum?

I hate phone posting. Lost my response.

Gist: both, there is a difference between “having a plan” and planning. Ask my scum partners from forever—I plan. So should you, btw.

The plan that gkrieg talks about is the public one I was forced to produce every game for years when I was active and one of the “best” players here. It became a farce.

You want a “plan”?  I can make one up. If you want my planning, check out our scum QT.  I already told you what I think you should do if you got PGO.
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MiX

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Re: M123: Doomsday Mafia (Day 1)
« Reply #157 on: June 04, 2019, 06:03:17 am »

good case. vote: pps

I mean, clearly I’ve been made redundant with this mix guy around. Self votes, check, calls the scum team D1, check, makes nearly incomprehensible analysis that is useless to everyone but maybe himself, check. I mean, I got nothing left to do here.

Where do you think I got my inspiration?

Scum team: joth/gkrieg/ss/e, mcmc's survivor. There, game solved. Oh, except I'm not sure who's traitor yet.

There's too much scum on this list. Townslip or scum calculating a "townslip"?

But I'm actually feeling less strong about mix, so unvote

But...there's 4 scum.

good case. vote: pps

I mean, clearly I’ve been made redundant with this mix guy around. Self votes, check, calls the scum team D1, check, makes nearly incomprehensible analysis that is useless to everyone but maybe himself, check. I mean, I got nothing left to do here.

Well then vote: pps

One of us has to go, right? Can’t have two of this personality. This other guy seems to want to talk setup. You know I won’t do that. I’m usually good for an exciting fake claim with major plot holes if I am scum. Who doesn’t want fun and excitement?

Hopefully scum NKs one of us when they're tired of our nonsense. That's always my dream, but it never comes true...


ash's town. I think EFHW and Uncle have moved up in my scummy list...oh that reminds me I should setup my reads list, haven't played a D1 in too long apparently.
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mcmcsalot

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Re: M123: Doomsday Mafia (Day 1)
« Reply #158 on: June 04, 2019, 07:09:41 am »

I’ll say I agree completely with ash’s self analysis.
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Debatepro

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Re: M123: Doomsday Mafia (Day 1)
« Reply #159 on: June 04, 2019, 09:16:46 am »

If you read the above, or the set up, you will notice there are essentially 3 levels of information a player can have:
1) Skum - Know what they picked/have. They know how many other roles outside of the template one's exist. They don't know who is what role.
2) Town - Know themselves. Know what roles exist in the game. Same as always.
3) Third Party - Knows their role. Knows what roles exist in the game. Same as it could always be.
So, I don't get why people are opposed to the idea. I also do not see a huge upside I suppose. I think I find the thought of being against talking about it skummy though.

I think the upside of this post and asher's  breakdown of how game could end N1 (151) is helpful to level set knowledge and information. I couldn't figure out how the game ends in N1 and I think some players assume everyone is playing at the same speed and level.

The dogma that "helpful" isn't alignment indicative is a common refrain, but actually if you look at it in context with other posts, that it can be very useful. It seems to me that scum need chaos and uncertainty.

We have a moral obligation to hunt down the earth saving scum, lest we let self-replicating machines get off the rock and destroy the universe.


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A Drowned Kernel

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Re: M123: Doomsday Mafia (Day 1)
« Reply #160 on: June 04, 2019, 09:30:55 am »

1) Skum - Know what they picked/have. They know how many other roles outside of the template one's exist. They don't know who is what role.

The issue is that some scum don't have this info, and scum doesn't know their traitor, and traitor potentially doesn't know who mafia is, and setup talk provides a way for them to signal to each other.
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A Drowned Kernel

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Re: M123: Doomsday Mafia (Day 1)
« Reply #161 on: June 04, 2019, 09:35:08 am »

Scum team: joth/gkrieg/ss/e, mcmc's survivor. There, game solved. Oh, except I'm not sure who's traitor yet.

There's too much scum on this list. Townslip or scum calculating a "townslip"?

But I'm actually feeling less strong about mix, so unvote

But...there's 4 scum.

There's 3 scum and a traitor, your post lists 4 then adds the traitor
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mcmcsalot

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Re: M123: Doomsday Mafia (Day 1)
« Reply #162 on: June 04, 2019, 09:40:34 am »

unvote

Adk you make it very hard to stay a block when you are voting for one of the members
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A Drowned Kernel

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Re: M123: Doomsday Mafia (Day 1)
« Reply #163 on: June 04, 2019, 09:50:05 am »

unvote

Adk you make it very hard to stay a block when you are voting for one of the members

That's how i roll, deal with it
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WestCoastDidds

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Re: M123: Doomsday Mafia (Day 1)
« Reply #164 on: June 04, 2019, 10:01:10 am »

Vote Count 1.2

MiX (2): pingpongsam, Debatepro
jotheonah (1): Uncleeurope
Uncleeurope (1): jotheonah
mcmcsalot (1): EFHW
ashersky (1): gkrieg13
silverspawn (2): MiX, 2.71828.....
pingpongsam (3): silverspawn, pubby, A Drowned Kernel

Not Voting (4): Glooble, DatSwan, ashersky, mcmcsalot

With 15 alive, it takes 8 to lynch. Day 1 ends on June 10, 2019, 10:00:00 am.
« Last Edit: June 09, 2019, 03:42:26 pm by faust »
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MiX

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Re: M123: Doomsday Mafia (Day 1)
« Reply #165 on: June 04, 2019, 10:03:04 am »

Scum team: joth/gkrieg/ss/e, mcmc's survivor. There, game solved. Oh, except I'm not sure who's traitor yet.

There's too much scum on this list. Townslip or scum calculating a "townslip"?

But I'm actually feeling less strong about mix, so unvote

But...there's 4 scum.

There's 3 scum and a traitor, your post lists 4 then adds the traitor

Ah, I thought this was the case. I meant "I don't know who is the traitor from those 4".

Debatepro seems to have a very...peculiar...flavour, and judging from mine I'd say he's town. Weird.
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EFHW

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Re: M123: Doomsday Mafia (Day 1)
« Reply #166 on: June 04, 2019, 10:04:17 am »

1) Skum - Know what they picked/have. They know how many other roles outside of the template one's exist. They don't know who is what role.

The issue is that some scum don't have this info, and scum doesn't know their traitor, and traitor potentially doesn't know who mafia is, and setup talk provides a way for them to signal to each other.
I don't agree with this. Let them signal. Everyone is listening. We want everyone to talk.
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Re: M123: Doomsday Mafia (Day 1)
« Reply #167 on: June 04, 2019, 10:45:56 am »

@mod, I am voting silverspawn not PPS
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A Drowned Kernel

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Re: M123: Doomsday Mafia (Day 1)
« Reply #168 on: June 04, 2019, 10:47:38 am »

Scum team: joth/gkrieg/ss/e, mcmc's survivor. There, game solved. Oh, except I'm not sure who's traitor yet.

There's too much scum on this list. Townslip or scum calculating a "townslip"?

But I'm actually feeling less strong about mix, so unvote

But...there's 4 scum.

There's 3 scum and a traitor, your post lists 4 then adds the traitor

Ah, I thought this was the case. I meant "I don't know who is the traitor from those 4".

Debatepro seems to have a very...peculiar...flavour, and judging from mine I'd say he's town. Weird.

So not a township, then. But the fact that you're not playing it up as one is promising
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WestCoastDidds

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Re: M123: Doomsday Mafia (Day 1)
« Reply #169 on: June 04, 2019, 11:05:34 am »

Vote Count 1.2 corrected

MiX (2): pingpongsam, Debatepro
jotheonah (1): Uncleeurope
Uncleeurope (1): jotheonah
mcmcsalot (1): EFHW
ashersky (1): gkrieg13
silverspawn (2): MiX, 2.71828.....
pingpongsam (3): silverspawn, pubby, A Drowned Kernel

Not Voting (4): Glooble, DatSwan, ashersky, mcmcsalot

With 15 alive, it takes 8 to lynch. Day 1 ends on June 10, 2019, 10:00:00 am.
« Last Edit: June 09, 2019, 03:42:46 pm by faust »
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Swowl

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Re: M123: Doomsday Mafia (Day 1)
« Reply #170 on: June 04, 2019, 11:20:26 am »

gkrieg's vote on me for the plan thing is super lazy.

Basically, all {ashersky,plan} posts are lazy and need to stop.  It was a meta thing like a year and a half ago.  It's personally exhausting and annoying at this point.

Yes, I still think about things and occasionally have plan-like ideas.  No, it is not an important thing anymore.

I mean, if anything, I definitely plan more as scum anyway.

I read this and then immediately went digging for this:

Also, for the record, hating on ashersky plans is just a hipster contrarianism thing to do. As Awaclus points out subconsciously, the efficacy of ashersky plans notwithstanding, the airing of, discussion of, and sometimes demolishing of ashersky plans is always pro-town. And generally they are pro-town regardless of my own alignment.

If you want to complain about ashersky plans, the correct way is to say it has zero bearing on my alignment so I deserve no town points for them. Unfortunately, I often do get scum points if I don’t have one, so partly this is all your fault.

Separate to this, using waiting for the plan as an excuse to not otherwise engage is not an acceptable action.

Do Ash plans have zero bearing on your alignment, or do you do them more often as skum?

I hate phone posting. Lost my response.

Gist: both, there is a difference between “having a plan” and planning. Ask my scum partners from forever—I plan. So should you, btw.

The plan that gkrieg talks about is the public one I was forced to produce every game for years when I was active and one of the “best” players here. It became a farce.

You want a “plan”?  I can make one up. If you want my planning, check out our scum QT.  I already told you what I think you should do if you got PGO.

Plan being the aside point - I was more fixated on the contradictions between the two posts.
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gkrieg13

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Re: M123: Doomsday Mafia (Day 1)
« Reply #171 on: June 04, 2019, 11:55:02 am »

Setup talk is bad here, I think, so let's not.

This is a town tell for ADK, I suppose.

?

Last game ADK was scum and started the game off with a ton of setup talk. That’s the joke.

Terrible joke, ADK not discussion setup's null precisely because of that.

Scum team: joth/gkrieg/ss/e, mcmc's survivor. There, game solved. Oh, except I'm not sure who's traitor yet.

There's too much scum on this list. Townslip or scum calculating a "townslip"?

But I'm actually feeling less strong about mix, so unvote

Uh it isn’t too much scum?
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Re: M123: Doomsday Mafia (Day 1)
« Reply #172 on: June 04, 2019, 11:58:07 am »

gkrieg's vote on me for the plan thing is super lazy.

Basically, all {ashersky,plan} posts are lazy and need to stop.  It was a meta thing like a year and a half ago.  It's personally exhausting and annoying at this point.

Yes, I still think about things and occasionally have plan-like ideas.  No, it is not an important thing anymore.

I mean, if anything, I definitely plan more as scum anyway.

I read this and then immediately went digging for this:

Also, for the record, hating on ashersky plans is just a hipster contrarianism thing to do. As Awaclus points out subconsciously, the efficacy of ashersky plans notwithstanding, the airing of, discussion of, and sometimes demolishing of ashersky plans is always pro-town. And generally they are pro-town regardless of my own alignment.

If you want to complain about ashersky plans, the correct way is to say it has zero bearing on my alignment so I deserve no town points for them. Unfortunately, I often do get scum points if I don’t have one, so partly this is all your fault.

Separate to this, using waiting for the plan as an excuse to not otherwise engage is not an acceptable action.

Do Ash plans have zero bearing on your alignment, or do you do them more often as skum?

I hate phone posting. Lost my response.

Gist: both, there is a difference between “having a plan” and planning. Ask my scum partners from forever—I plan. So should you, btw.

The plan that gkrieg talks about is the public one I was forced to produce every game for years when I was active and one of the “best” players here. It became a farce.

You want a “plan”?  I can make one up. If you want my planning, check out our scum QT.  I already told you what I think you should do if you got PGO.

But it is possible that not having a plan was your plan all along.
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gkrieg13

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Re: M123: Doomsday Mafia (Day 1)
« Reply #173 on: June 04, 2019, 12:01:22 pm »

1) Skum - Know what they picked/have. They know how many other roles outside of the template one's exist. They don't know who is what role.

The issue is that some scum don't have this info, and scum doesn't know their traitor, and traitor potentially doesn't know who mafia is, and setup talk provides a way for them to signal to each other.
I don't agree with this. Let them signal. Everyone is listening. We want everyone to talk.

As someone who has been lynched for extremely obvious signaling, I agree with this here. I think it is much less likely they successfully signal and no one from town catches it than they out themselves and we can lynch them.
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MiX

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Re: M123: Doomsday Mafia (Day 1)
« Reply #174 on: June 04, 2019, 12:16:18 pm »

1) Skum - Know what they picked/have. They know how many other roles outside of the template one's exist. They don't know who is what role.

The issue is that some scum don't have this info, and scum doesn't know their traitor, and traitor potentially doesn't know who mafia is, and setup talk provides a way for them to signal to each other.
I don't agree with this. Let them signal. Everyone is listening. We want everyone to talk.

As someone who has been lynched for extremely obvious signaling, I agree with this here. I think it is much less likely they successfully signal and no one from town catches it than they out themselves and we can lynch them.

We can also continue to help the Traitor know how they should play and what we expect of him, that's always nice.

Vote: gkrieg
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