OK, this is coming in 2 parts. Part 1 is below. Lets call Part 1 "Why Joth is Skum". Part 2 ("why swan is Town), will have to follow as I am out of time:
This is the end of Day 1 for reference:
Day 1 Final VC:
MiX (2): Glooble, gkrieg13
A Drowned Kernel (1): mcmcsalot
jotheonah (5): chairs, Galzria, arishipshape, Joseph2302, MiX
Joseph2302 (6): SpaceAnemone, DatSwan, EFHW, faust, jotheonah, A Drowned Kernel
1) Joth's logic on the selection of them being the promoter:
If promoter is scum, I was either targeted (A) because MiX is town and scum thought I couldn’t resist challenging him, (B) because MiX is scum and scum thought I wouldn’t dare challenge him, or (C) because everyone has such a scumread on me that it doesn’t matter who I challenge because I’ll lose.
Anyway, MiX’s kicking in the door with shameless buddying feels consistent with B.
If promoter is town then I was obviously targeted by someone who thinks I’m scum and it’s basically also C.
So my best hope here is to seek a consensus target from town or else target MiX.
- They then in close posts thereafter continue to elaborate on the plan stating that they will be targeting MiX in 72 hours unless convinced otherwise.
- After they say this... Ari, Chairs, and Glooble all outright state it would be Joth over MiX.
- MiX states they would vote themselves, because they are VT. Which whether they are or not, I assume/hope is a lie. Town's only job in that situation is to stay alive. It doesn't matter how much you believe the other person is town.
- Right thereafter, ADK and Faust both also say they will go for Joth over MiX.
- Chairs then switches after the MiX claim of voting for self and says they would go MiX.
So a page after the plan is laid out based on isolating MiX unless a better option is presented we have 4 people saying they are gonna vote for Joth (plus MiX).
- Then there is some discussion and Galz claims promoter, also stating he thinks Joth is Skum.
- 100%, if Galz is Town, he went back and found Joth's top 3 stated SRs and picked them for the pool he announced for Joth. This makes sense for Town!Galz if Galz thinks Joth is skum, as I would assume Skum!Joth would include a buddy (or skum anyone for that matter) in there top SR list early on.
- By post #780 the current choices laid in from of Joth have been noted to be Galz or MiX. They then post this:
I never said I wasn't going to challenge you. I'm not going to challenge you right now.
You want me to challenge you before it's clear which one of us will win, because that gives you a 50/50 shot. Whereas if I wait until I have a clear idea of how everyone is going to vote I can choose to challenge you or not -- which gives you a 0% chance if I challenge you. So waiting is clearly pro-town and rushing is clearly pro-scum.
- The above is a fancy way of saying "shit - the two options I could go to I am for sure going to lose to, so I need more time to create another option".
- Then he pushes Galz a bit, which isn't really skummy because I also was/am suspicious a little of the claim... but still to the point of keeping options open.
- Lots of interaction with Galz and his claim. Nothing there I find odd, just that time is passed.
- States they have done a re read, and that they have chosen their target, and that they will be challenging in 4 hours.
- I then quote MiX for arbitrarily voting me for not speaking since the day started (a day ago). I ask them to "chill" because I had a meet over the weekend and could not find time.
- Then Joth... not MiX... responds to my comment, saying they will wait a little longer. All of this is before my DAMA posting stage, so I am not really sure, assuming I am correct, what it is Joth found from Day 1 re read that made him select me.
- Joth right there after posts this:
Should we have the claiming conversation before I make my challenge?
People in this town seem to place a lot of store in claims, so I really don't want to make a strong case on scum and then end up being the lynch because of some ridiculous fake claim.
- This reads, to me at least, as Joth is essentially claiming to be a PR. If Joth makes a strong case on someone, then that person claims a PR, and Joth is VT, that isn't a ridiculous claim... that is just someone claiming to be a PR.
-If Joth is a PR and they make a case and that person claims the same PR, Town!Joth should not be worried - that is a great set up, as we either lynch the fake claimer (and then skum kills Joth), or we lynch Joth (skum kills someone) and then we still lynch the fake claimer. Either way, 100% we find skum there - and the read back value given Joth would control the speed at which they claim would be huge.
-If Joth is skum, they would be worried about accidentally targeting a PR and dealing with the same situation from the skum side of things.
-Also, there is the added benefit of getting people to claim out so skum knows their identity (like faust)
- Next, Joth says he is planning on challenging faust.
- Faust then claims Tracker (crazy when shit works out that way). As no one has CC'd faust at this point, I assume they are truthful.
- Joth states they cannot get on the GK wagon based on weak reasoning (which is fair).
- Now all my drunken posts happen. I stand by them, and in another post I will go over them. They are poorly worded, but I stand by the points that I was making.
- Right after that MiX jumps on me
- Right after that Joth intends to challenge me. Why is the weak reasoning vs me acceptable but not for GK? Could it be because many people stated they did not want to lynch GK, yet I appeared on many peoples lynch pool list? hmmmmm
OK that is my summary. If I were to make key points:
1) Joth should recieve 0 Town points for being selected by Galz (assuming it's Galz) until we determine whether or not Galz is Skum or Town. I am leaning Town on Galz (which is very strange for my mind to wrap itself around). If Galz is skum, then yes... Joth is most certainly town. But really, as paranoid as I want to be... Galz is probably Town. If Galz is Town it does not necessarily make Joth skum... but it sure as hell doesn't make him town.
2) Joth jumping around his potential challenge pool - the way he selected targets he only stood good chances against, the promotion of the claim concept before he issues challenges, and selecting me based on a few freekin posts I made that were (fair enough) hard to decipher... that is just like EXACTLY how skum would handle it in this situation.
3) If I were in Joth's shoes the play would be in my eyes to pick exactly who I thought to be the skummiest player alive, as that would give me the best chance of lynching skum. It shouldn't of mattered to Joth (more than selecting skum at least) who it was that was willing to vote for Joth vs the potential player.... Let's take this current situation. They selected me because they thought they stood a good chance vs me instead of vs someone else. Either Joth is town, and it is Town v Town, or Joth is Skum, and it is Town v Skum. Skum!Joth would focus on picking the player they could win against, whereas Town!Joth (or Town!Anyone) should focus on selecting skum.
4) Right now we are in a shitty situation, there are only two targets to choose from. Please look back and try to tell me that I am the skummiest of the lot. They could of selected an off-all-wagons player, they could of selected Galz, they could of selected ADK (the other main wagon D1)... any of those choices would of potentially given masses of more information then selecting me. However, since I had the unfortunate consequence of being on the Day 1 wagon of being on many peoples lynch pool list, they chose to instead jump on me for weak reasoning because it gave them a better chance to survive. That, right there... is NOT a town mind set in the selection process. It is a town mindset when it is between "you or the other guy", but in this scenario - JOTH GOT TO PICK THE OTHER GUY!
*Super post note that I will have no way of fitting into the other post so I am doing it now before I forget - I would expect that if Joth is skum, then skum would of hard bussed him. It could be 1 knowing they are doing it, or it could be two knowing they are doing it... but there is for sure one.
In Days to come I can see MiX getting heat. If MiX is skum they are EXACTLY the traitor, and even that is a stretch. If I get lynched, please don't lynch MiX before Joth*