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Author Topic: M122: Lalight's run out of ideas Mafia (Game Over! Town won!)  (Read 193109 times)

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A Drowned Kernel

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Re: M122: Lalight's run out of ideas Mafia (Day 2!)
« Reply #850 on: May 04, 2019, 12:24:53 am »

Maybe this will spark some conversation:

I am planning to challenge faust.

I will have to reread faust but I don't think I would be opposed to that
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Re: M122: Lalight's run out of ideas Mafia (Day 2!)
« Reply #851 on: May 04, 2019, 01:53:30 am »

Maybe this will spark some conversation:

I am planning to challenge faust.
I am the Tracker.
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Re: M122: Lalight's run out of ideas Mafia (Day 2!)
« Reply #852 on: May 04, 2019, 01:59:59 am »

My result is negative; not sure if I should share it as it would out someone as non-PR [they could be Vengeful, but that's not a very useful PR].
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faust

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Re: M122: Lalight's run out of ideas Mafia (Day 2!)
« Reply #853 on: May 04, 2019, 02:15:48 am »

I realize you don't like my proposed challengee (Glooble). Maybe the fact that two town PRs suggested him will change your mind? But I doubt it. In lieu of that, I propose gkrieg or Space.
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MiX

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Re: M122: Lalight's run out of ideas Mafia (Day 2!)
« Reply #854 on: May 04, 2019, 04:36:19 am »

Maybe this will spark some conversation:

I am planning to challenge faust.
I am the Tracker.

Well this is fun. I guess there's no reason to not wait for a counterclaim?

Why do you propose Space?
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Re: M122: Lalight's run out of ideas Mafia (Day 2!)
« Reply #855 on: May 04, 2019, 04:47:23 am »

Why do you propose Space?
Inactivity plus they were keeping their distance from the Joseph wagon as if they expected Joseph to flip town.
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Re: M122: Lalight's run out of ideas Mafia (Day 2!)
« Reply #856 on: May 04, 2019, 04:49:00 am »

joth, please explain how you went from this:

Quote
If I were to pick for Joth, I would make him choose between {ADK, Faust, Glooble}.

Literally my top three town reads.

to this:

I am planning to challenge faust.
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MiX

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Re: M122: Lalight's run out of ideas Mafia (Day 2!)
« Reply #857 on: May 04, 2019, 04:57:31 am »

Do you believe Space's "helpfulness" in D1, coupled with them saying it was pro-town, gives Space scumpoints? Because that seems to be the majority of Space's D1, coupled with her permanent vote on Joseph and some thoughts about me.

@Space, when you see this...can you explain everything about why you never moved your vote from Joseph? I think it would be great if we had this explained.
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Re: M122: Lalight's run out of ideas Mafia (Day 2!)
« Reply #858 on: May 04, 2019, 05:08:39 am »

Do you believe Space's "helpfulness" in D1, coupled with them saying it was pro-town, gives Space scumpoints?
No.
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Glooble

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Re: M122: Lalight's run out of ideas Mafia (Day 2!)
« Reply #859 on: May 04, 2019, 07:37:41 am »

Ok, it's POE time:

Off the table:

joth: cannot challenge himself
Glooble: I am town, and joth doesn't want to lynch me anyway
Galzria: the only way he makes sense as scum is if MiX is also scum and he's taking a huge gambit that I don't think Galz would take. Much better to let MiX get lynched.
MiX: if Galz is town he's town
faust: claimed tracker, no counterclaim

That leaves:
ADK
Space
gKrieg
chairs
ari
DatSwan
EFHW

I'm inclined to believe this claim. But what was so horrible about the Joseph wagon?

I believe the part where he's promoter. But maybe not the part where he's town...

Why on earth would scum promoter claim right now?

Why wouldn't they?

1) If mix is town there's no motivation for them to claim and stop you from picking him 2) If mix is scum this irrevocably ties galz and mix together, and if one of them is caught the other one does. It's a huge risk just to stop you from picking mix, when it's pretty clear that if you did pick mix, you would be the one lynched anyway.

This post makes me want to take ADK off the table. I don't think scum!adk points this out. It's way two tempting to just let them duke it out and hope joth challenges Galz or MiX.

ari is an interesting question. I was scumreading him day one, as was joth, but mcmcsalot thought he was just newb town, and I'm inclined to trust mcmcs reads. Nothing jumps out for me either way on a reread. He spent a lot of the end of day two half-heartedly voting for inactive or less active players (chairs, EFHW) which feels scummy to me but could just be flailing town. ari is still a viable challenge from where I'm standing, I guess.

Space: mcmc thought they were scummy based on reply #355- reading it over, I really disagree, it's verbose, but Space just tends to be verbose for the sake of precision, mcmc made it seem like it was trying to obscure or manipulate and I really don't see that. The ensuing discussion from that accusation is a big chunk of the overall Space content. This post is a little defensive for my taste, especially given there wasn't even a wagon on them:
Note that my post that mcmc thinks is so scummy did another useful pro-town thing: it boosted the signal on faust's comment about the possibility of a quick-lynch before the Gladiator deadline kicks in, and obtained clear mod confirmation that it's a viable plan, which avoids uncertainty during the critical window at the start of D2.

I did also say that I don't think we should do any pre-planning around that till D2, but the idea itself was already accessible to scum, so it's not like I hurt our chances there. Furthermore, if it's being discussed at this level, a scum Gladiator has less excuse to say "oops, it didn't occur to me that we should hold out till deadline" if they come into the thread naming a second player. Same goes for avoiding a derp!town move.

Basically, I think it's pro-town to point out to whomever the gladiator is that it's a good idea to hold off and let town have some rapid start-of-D2 discussion before naming anyone else to the 1-v-1.

Defending MiX end of day two feels a little towny, if we assume MiX is town. Though its by no means exonerating.

I'm going to post this now I think then do the last four in another post because this is getting long.
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I think town!Glooble pointing to something as a scum tell and then shortly thereafter doing that thing is a lot more likely than scum!Glooble doing that.

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Re: M122: Lalight's run out of ideas Mafia (Day 2!)
« Reply #860 on: May 04, 2019, 07:46:59 am »

joth, please explain how you went from this:

Quote
If I were to pick for Joth, I would make him choose between {ADK, Faust, Glooble}.

Literally my top three town reads.

to this:

I am planning to challenge faust.

Oh I was planning to. After I issued the challenge.
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Re: M122: Lalight's run out of ideas Mafia (Day 2!)
« Reply #861 on: May 04, 2019, 07:49:26 am »

joth, please explain how you went from this:

Quote
If I were to pick for Joth, I would make him choose between {ADK, Faust, Glooble}.

Literally my top three town reads.

to this:

I am planning to challenge faust.

Oh I was planning to. After I issued the challenge.

Wait, how does that answer faust's question? I don't understand what you said.


@Glooble, notice how you said "End of day two" when you meant one. That was a bit weird, just saying it so others don't get confused.
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Re: M122: Lalight's run out of ideas Mafia (Day 2!)
« Reply #862 on: May 04, 2019, 07:57:56 am »

My scenario for scum!faust is dependent on Galz being town which means this probably isn’t a fake claim though.

Here’s the bones of the case: Assume Galz, MiX, and I are all town.

Yesterday , faust was the one to point out that we could do a normal lynch if we squeezed it in the first 72 hours. Space reiterated that point. No one else really discussed it.

Then today starts, and neither faust nor space makes any effort to make a pre-challenge lynch happen, to delay my challenge, or even to remind us of the option. Weird, no?

But imagine faust and/or space are blind scum dealing with a town promoter. Well they want to keep their options open in case today’s gladiator is one of them or someone who might choose one of them. So they lay the groundwork.

Then today comes. Neither of them is gladiator. All my professed reads are on town. So they just, as I said before, sit back and eat popcorn.

PPE MiX: I was planning to lay out my case after I issued the challenge, not before. But claim changes things.
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Re: M122: Lalight's run out of ideas Mafia (Day 2!)
« Reply #863 on: May 04, 2019, 08:00:28 am »

So assuming no counterclaim, I don’t think it can be faust. Space would be my next choice I suppose, since the case also applies to them. I have a bit more potential Space evidence as well.
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Glooble

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Re: M122: Lalight's run out of ideas Mafia (Day 2!)
« Reply #864 on: May 04, 2019, 08:00:38 am »

gKrieg: Okay, I think we've found my top choice for challenging/ lynching today. Reread him real quick. It won't take long, cause he hasn't said much. What he has said has been entirely reactive. This is actilurking at its finest. Lots of "I agree with this" and "this is a little scummy". Almost no analysis, and no strong stands about other people's scumminess. Everything is deniable. vote: gKrieg

I'll finish this anyway for the sake of completeness.

chairs: actually, chairs is an excellent contrast to gKrieg. Even fewer posts, and about the same average length, but way more substantive.  He certainly could be scum, but rereading him he feels much more likely to be busy/ slighlty disengaged town to me. Don't want to lynch.

DatSwan: Total Null read. Confused about the setup (or pretending to be.) Could easily be scum but I still like gKrieg more. DatSwan, apropos of nothing, why do you spell scum with a "k"?

EFHW: Not a lot of content, but I give her a surgery pass on that. Useful later on in my limited experience. Nothing scummy in what is there. Solid Null read.


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Re: M122: Lalight's run out of ideas Mafia (Day 2!)
« Reply #865 on: May 04, 2019, 08:01:33 am »

So assuming no counterclaim, I don’t think it can be faust. Space would be my next choice I suppose, since the case also applies to them. I have a bit more potential Space evidence as well.

I'm okay with that but please reread gKrieg and tell me he's not super scummy.
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Re: M122: Lalight's run out of ideas Mafia (Day 2!)
« Reply #866 on: May 04, 2019, 08:03:47 am »

So assuming no counterclaim, I don’t think it can be faust. Space would be my next choice I suppose, since the case also applies to them. I have a bit more potential Space evidence as well.

I'm okay with that but please reread gKrieg and tell me he's not super scummy.

I re-read. That’s not my favorite kind of case.
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MiX

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Re: M122: Lalight's run out of ideas Mafia (Day 2!)
« Reply #867 on: May 04, 2019, 12:46:19 pm »

I'm not sure if I should voice my own reads, given that I would rather hear them from scum...

If my town reads are correct, I believe we already won. I agree with Galzria that town promoter is a very powerful role and with Lyncher gone we can PoE a lot of people. Given that we have 2 possible mislynches left, and because we're an even number Vengeful Townie can even bring that number to 3, which gives us a lot of room to maneuver, my townreads should be enough to quite literally PoE all 3 scum.

This is to say I have 3 specific players that I would like to lynch today, and I'm fine with any, given that I believe we're in a very good position. Of course, maybe scum's playing us really well, but this post is essencially saying I'm hopeful, my lack of reads have died and I'm ready to win.

I support joth's choice.
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Re: M122: Lalight's run out of ideas Mafia (Day 2!)
« Reply #868 on: May 04, 2019, 01:16:20 pm »

Do you believe Space's "helpfulness" in D1, coupled with them saying it was pro-town, gives Space scumpoints? Because that seems to be the majority of Space's D1, coupled with her permanent vote on Joseph and some thoughts about me.

@Space, when you see this...can you explain everything about why you never moved your vote from Joseph? I think it would be great if we had this explained.

I find it very easy to read Joseph as the kind of person who acts to amuse himself and doesn't necessarily think things through, so in the absence of real scum evidence, there didn't seem to be any good reason not to leave the vote where I'd left it in RVS. As faust pointed out last game, sometimes I have biases.

In fact, Joseph did mess up his claim, and I think that what faust picked up on there was a genuine not-town slip, so I think everyone voting there was entirely justified in case he'd been scum and not just the lyncher doctor.

Of course, if I live long enough, I'll frustrate myself in the later game by not having moved myself around a few different wagons to help see who moves where when there are other people voting, but I just wasn't invested enough in most of the arguments going on for me to feel energetic enough to move around. Sad but true.
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Glooble

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Re: M122: Lalight's run out of ideas Mafia (Day 2!)
« Reply #869 on: May 04, 2019, 01:18:55 pm »

Joseph’s slim was about knowing there was a traitor though. Lyncher Doctor doesn’t have that information any more than a VT does. It’s in a different quadrant.
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I think town!Glooble pointing to something as a scum tell and then shortly thereafter doing that thing is a lot more likely than scum!Glooble doing that.

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Re: M122: Lalight's run out of ideas Mafia (Day 2!)
« Reply #870 on: May 04, 2019, 01:31:26 pm »

Joseph’s slim was about knowing there was a traitor though. Lyncher Doctor doesn’t have that information any more than a VT does. It’s in a different quadrant.

He may have made a slip around traitor, but the one I'm specifically referring to is the one faust pointed out after Joseph's claim, after which Joseph offered a pretty poor defense:

Most of all I don't buy that you got this role and subsequently believed that only one of the quadrants is chosen, because then there wouldn't be an option for 2 bodyguards.
That's true, if I'd read my role PM correctly
I saw bodyguard and was like "yh, I know what that does, cool", and missed the 2 bodyguard thing. It's a crap defence but it's true

I think it was very reasonable to think something fishy was going on with Joseph after this. I'd hoped he was scum fake-claiming, but I'll take a non-townie roll over a town lynch.
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SpaceAnemone

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Re: M122: Lalight's run out of ideas Mafia (Day 2!)
« Reply #871 on: May 04, 2019, 01:33:30 pm »

Then today starts, and neither faust nor space makes any effort to make a pre-challenge lynch happen, to delay my challenge, or even to remind us of the option. Weird, no?

Until the past hour or so, last night was the only time I'd checked in since the start of D2 because my day yesterday was busy, and someone else had already mentioned it. So not that weird.
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MiX

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Re: M122: Lalight's run out of ideas Mafia (Day 2!)
« Reply #872 on: May 04, 2019, 01:39:15 pm »

Joseph’s slim was about knowing there was a traitor though. Lyncher Doctor doesn’t have that information any more than a VT does. It’s in a different quadrant.

He may have made a slip around traitor, but the one I'm specifically referring to is the one faust pointed out after Joseph's claim, after which Joseph offered a pretty poor defense:

Most of all I don't buy that you got this role and subsequently believed that only one of the quadrants is chosen, because then there wouldn't be an option for 2 bodyguards.
That's true, if I'd read my role PM correctly
I saw bodyguard and was like "yh, I know what that does, cool", and missed the 2 bodyguard thing. It's a crap defence but it's true

I think it was very reasonable to think something fishy was going on with Joseph after this. I'd hoped he was scum fake-claiming, but I'll take a non-townie roll over a town lynch.

Why didn't you explain this at the end of day 1?
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Re: M122: Lalight's run out of ideas Mafia (Day 2!)
« Reply #873 on: May 04, 2019, 01:42:45 pm »

Joseph’s slim was about knowing there was a traitor though. Lyncher Doctor doesn’t have that information any more than a VT does. It’s in a different quadrant.

He may have made a slip around traitor, but the one I'm specifically referring to is the one faust pointed out after Joseph's claim, after which Joseph offered a pretty poor defense:

Most of all I don't buy that you got this role and subsequently believed that only one of the quadrants is chosen, because then there wouldn't be an option for 2 bodyguards.
That's true, if I'd read my role PM correctly
I saw bodyguard and was like "yh, I know what that does, cool", and missed the 2 bodyguard thing. It's a crap defence but it's true

I think it was very reasonable to think something fishy was going on with Joseph after this. I'd hoped he was scum fake-claiming, but I'll take a non-townie roll over a town lynch.

Why didn't you explain this at the end of day 1?

Why did it need even more explaining than that at the time? I'm only re-posting it now to clarify which thing I was referring to, since it looks like Glooble missed it the first time round.
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Re: M122: Lalight's run out of ideas Mafia (Day 2!)
« Reply #874 on: May 04, 2019, 01:53:35 pm »

Sorry had my final final yesterday and I’m not active on the weekends. Challenging a lurker is a bad choice anyway, as it requires people to take a stand on someone who it is easy to take a stand on.

I stayed away from Joseph early before the lynch had happened because I actually didn’t think he was scum. I did take strong stands on people, it was just usually about town reads like faust and Space and Joseph.
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