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Author Topic: M122: Lalight's run out of ideas Mafia (Game Over! Town won!)  (Read 193275 times)

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jotheonah

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Re: M122: Lalight's run out of ideas Mafia (Day 2!)
« Reply #800 on: May 03, 2019, 02:56:50 pm »

The distinction is in your lack of care regarding finding and challenging scum. If you were town, your absolute goal would be to NOT challenge town here, where town loses 100% of the time, but instead to challenge scum where, even if it’s not convenient for you, there’s a chance of us lynching correctly. You don’t care who you challenge, as long as you win. That isn’t pro-town, that’s pro-Joth, and that’s exactly the approach scum would take to try and appear townie.

You know what the best feature of a Vig is? It’s a 100% town controlled, no scum-input kill. You know what the downside is? It shorts our numbers. Being promoted as town is all the upside and none of the downside. But by making it a public poll all you’re trying to do is garner town favor by “acting” pro-town - instead of just being pro-town.

I disagree. Especially because the outcome of me making the decision without town input would be to piss everyone off, further increasing the already-high chances they vote for me.

Look, if you had picked someone with a lot of town cred, they could have played it the way you're suggesting. Heck, you could have picked yourself if you wanted to play it that way and had some real skin in the game. But what did you think was going to happen when you picked someone who almost got lynched yesterday? In the position I'm in, using my challenge power without town input is suicide.

Also you are being disingenuous when you continually state that I don't care about finding scum. At no point have I suggested that I would use my power against someone I don't think is scum. The question is, out of the set of people I consider to be likely scum, which will I pick? And the answer is, duh, the one I can beat in a 1v1 vote-off. PPE 2
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A Drowned Kernel

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Re: M122: Lalight's run out of ideas Mafia (Day 2!)
« Reply #801 on: May 03, 2019, 02:58:39 pm »

unvote btw
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Galzria

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Re: M122: Lalight's run out of ideas Mafia (Day 2!)
« Reply #802 on: May 03, 2019, 02:59:51 pm »

My choices were between anybody on the horrible Joseph wagon, or one of my own scum reads.
But... just how was the Joseph wagon horrible...? The guy was scum!

He was a Doctor who had no negative utility towards town except wanting one particular VT townie lynched. Granted, he messed up and should’ve claimed his own role (but not his target) with the promise to work with town to find scum - so I can’t blame anybody but him for his own lynch - but lynching him after the claim was bad... even if the claim itself was bad.
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Quote from: Voltgloss
Derphammering is when quickhammers go derp.

Faust has also been incredibly stubborn this game. In other news, it's hot in the summer, and water falls from the sky when it rains.


Mafia Record:
TOWN Wins: M3, M5, M6, M11, M17, M28, M32, M105, M108, M114, M118, M120, M122, DM1, DoM1, OZ2, RM45, RM47, RM48, RM49, RM55
TOWN Losses: M4, M7, M8, M9, M13, M14, M18, M31, M110, M111, M113, M117, M125, RM3, RM4, RM54
SCUM Wins: M2, M19, M23, M100, DM3, RM1, RM2, RM48, RM50
SCUM Losses: M15 (SK), M102 (Tr), OZ1, RM55

Total Wins: 30
Total Losses: 20

MiX

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Re: M122: Lalight's run out of ideas Mafia (Day 2!)
« Reply #803 on: May 03, 2019, 03:03:51 pm »

My choices were between anybody on the horrible Joseph wagon, or one of my own scum reads.
But... just how was the Joseph wagon horrible...? The guy was scum!

He was a Doctor who had no negative utility towards town except wanting one particular VT townie lynched. Granted, he messed up and should’ve claimed his own role (but not his target) with the promise to work with town to find scum - so I can’t blame anybody but him for his own lynch - but lynching him after the claim was bad... even if the claim itself was bad.

Because of plutarility lynch we would kill him anyway. At least I would. I'm not sure why anyone would delay a lynch on anti-town if not to lynch confirmed scum: D1 lynches are usually on town anyway, knowing that it wouldn't be is good enough for me, and I suspect good enough for everyone else (although I'm not so sure about this).
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A Drowned Kernel

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Re: M122: Lalight's run out of ideas Mafia (Day 2!)
« Reply #804 on: May 03, 2019, 03:04:57 pm »

My choices were between anybody on the horrible Joseph wagon, or one of my own scum reads.
But... just how was the Joseph wagon horrible...? The guy was scum!

He was a Doctor who had no negative utility towards town except wanting one particular VT townie lynched. Granted, he messed up and should’ve claimed his own role (but not his target) with the promise to work with town to find scum - so I can’t blame anybody but him for his own lynch - but lynching him after the claim was bad... even if the claim itself was bad.

Man you and I have a very different idea as to what constitutes "negative utility". I would have definitely lynched joseph after a lyncher claim.
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arishipshape

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Re: M122: Lalight's run out of ideas Mafia (Day 2!)
« Reply #805 on: May 03, 2019, 03:05:06 pm »

Joth, I used to think you were scum. Then you got promoted and seem to be handling it wonderfully, especially with Galz's claim. You're keeping calm, cool, and logical. Galz, why did you claim?
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MiX

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Re: M122: Lalight's run out of ideas Mafia (Day 2!)
« Reply #806 on: May 03, 2019, 03:05:52 pm »

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jotheonah

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Re: M122: Lalight's run out of ideas Mafia (Day 2!)
« Reply #807 on: May 03, 2019, 03:08:47 pm »

MiX, I am rereading the end of D1 and you were pretty adamant about me being scum. Then, at the beginning of today you're all about that town read on me. What's that about?
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Galzria

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Re: M122: Lalight's run out of ideas Mafia (Day 2!)
« Reply #808 on: May 03, 2019, 03:10:42 pm »

The distinction is in your lack of care regarding finding and challenging scum. If you were town, your absolute goal would be to NOT challenge town here, where town loses 100% of the time, but instead to challenge scum where, even if it’s not convenient for you, there’s a chance of us lynching correctly. You don’t care who you challenge, as long as you win. That isn’t pro-town, that’s pro-Joth, and that’s exactly the approach scum would take to try and appear townie.

You know what the best feature of a Vig is? It’s a 100% town controlled, no scum-input kill. You know what the downside is? It shorts our numbers. Being promoted as town is all the upside and none of the downside. But by making it a public poll all you’re trying to do is garner town favor by “acting” pro-town - instead of just being pro-town.

I disagree. Especially because the outcome of me making the decision without town input would be to piss everyone off, further increasing the already-high chances they vote for me.

Look, if you had picked someone with a lot of town cred, they could have played it the way you're suggesting. Heck, you could have picked yourself if you wanted to play it that way and had some real skin in the game. But what did you think was going to happen when you picked someone who almost got lynched yesterday? In the position I'm in, using my challenge power without town input is suicide.

Also you are being disingenuous when you continually state that I don't care about finding scum. At no point have I suggested that I would use my power against someone I don't think is scum. The question is, out of the set of people I consider to be likely scum, which will I pick? And the answer is, duh, the one I can beat in a 1v1 vote-off. PPE 2

Why would I ever choose someone with town cred or that I thought was town? See, you’re STILL not looking at it from a town perspective. I laid it out D1: The best use of the entire role from a town perspective is to choose the player they MOST think to be scum, because even if they’re wrong, that player then gets to choose again. That’s two opportunities to force scum into being the 50/50 chance. Picking myself would be the absolute worst use of the role as there would then only be one opportunity to find scum (my own challenge choice). By choosing you, I’m essentially saying “Joth is my challenge choice”, except if I’m wrong YOU get to pick your own top choice.

I don’t give a damn about public opinion and neither should you (or any town). If we end up in a town-v-town challenge, regardless if you’re guaranteed to win or not, town loses. So IF you’re town then start acting like it instead of trying primarily to protect your own hide.
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Quote from: Voltgloss
Derphammering is when quickhammers go derp.

Faust has also been incredibly stubborn this game. In other news, it's hot in the summer, and water falls from the sky when it rains.


Mafia Record:
TOWN Wins: M3, M5, M6, M11, M17, M28, M32, M105, M108, M114, M118, M120, M122, DM1, DoM1, OZ2, RM45, RM47, RM48, RM49, RM55
TOWN Losses: M4, M7, M8, M9, M13, M14, M18, M31, M110, M111, M113, M117, M125, RM3, RM4, RM54
SCUM Wins: M2, M19, M23, M100, DM3, RM1, RM2, RM48, RM50
SCUM Losses: M15 (SK), M102 (Tr), OZ1, RM55

Total Wins: 30
Total Losses: 20

arishipshape

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Re: M122: Lalight's run out of ideas Mafia (Day 2!)
« Reply #809 on: May 03, 2019, 03:16:49 pm »

The distinction is in your lack of care regarding finding and challenging scum. If you were town, your absolute goal would be to NOT challenge town here, where town loses 100% of the time, but instead to challenge scum where, even if it’s not convenient for you, there’s a chance of us lynching correctly. You don’t care who you challenge, as long as you win. That isn’t pro-town, that’s pro-Joth, and that’s exactly the approach scum would take to try and appear townie.

You know what the best feature of a Vig is? It’s a 100% town controlled, no scum-input kill. You know what the downside is? It shorts our numbers. Being promoted as town is all the upside and none of the downside. But by making it a public poll all you’re trying to do is garner town favor by “acting” pro-town - instead of just being pro-town.

I disagree. Especially because the outcome of me making the decision without town input would be to piss everyone off, further increasing the already-high chances they vote for me.

Look, if you had picked someone with a lot of town cred, they could have played it the way you're suggesting. Heck, you could have picked yourself if you wanted to play it that way and had some real skin in the game. But what did you think was going to happen when you picked someone who almost got lynched yesterday? In the position I'm in, using my challenge power without town input is suicide.

Also you are being disingenuous when you continually state that I don't care about finding scum. At no point have I suggested that I would use my power against someone I don't think is scum. The question is, out of the set of people I consider to be likely scum, which will I pick? And the answer is, duh, the one I can beat in a 1v1 vote-off. PPE 2

Why would I ever choose someone with town cred or that I thought was town? See, you’re STILL not looking at it from a town perspective. I laid it out D1: The best use of the entire role from a town perspective is to choose the player they MOST think to be scum, because even if they’re wrong, that player then gets to choose again. That’s two opportunities to force scum into being the 50/50 chance. Picking myself would be the absolute worst use of the role as there would then only be one opportunity to find scum (my own challenge choice). By choosing you, I’m essentially saying “Joth is my challenge choice”, except if I’m wrong YOU get to pick your own top choice.

I don’t give a damn about public opinion and neither should you (or any town). If we end up in a town-v-town challenge, regardless if you’re guaranteed to win or not, town loses. So IF you’re town then start acting like it instead of trying primarily to protect your own hide.
But he is thinking from a town perspective by trying to stay alive. From his perspective, assuming he's town, he needs to pick a fight he can win first and foremost. Yes, our goal is to get scum, but let's say he picks a scum and we lynch him instead. Scum lives. He needs to find a scum that he can actually win against in a 1V1. So yes, he needs to pick scum. But he needs to pick scum that wont get him lynched anyways. Unless he's just scum, in which case well done Galz, you get a town medal.
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MiX

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Re: M122: Lalight's run out of ideas Mafia (Day 2!)
« Reply #810 on: May 03, 2019, 03:18:06 pm »

MiX, I am rereading the end of D1 and you were pretty adamant about me being scum. Then, at the beginning of today you're all about that town read on me. What's that about?

I reread your town and scum games D1, and I noticed you talked a lot, by which I mean a LOT, more when you were scum. Maybe not in quantity of posts, but in the density of posts: they were longer when you were scum. And then I saw your town game, where you...kinda did what you're doing here. Jokes, small posts, important tidbits. And most importantly, you were scumhunting really well D1, when I set aside your scumread on me I found a lot of good points, good arguments and good cases. I believe the crux of this is your ari case: 3 short quotes, 3 short lines debunking his faust case, followed (or preceded by, I forgot the order) a brief sum of what made him scum. Remember how I voted there? You made a lot of sense.

There, that's roughly my "joth is town" case. Galzria, care to destroy it?

But he is thinking from a town perspective by trying to stay alive. From his perspective, assuming he's town, he needs to pick a fight he can win first and foremost. Yes, our goal is to get scum, but let's say he picks a scum and we lynch him instead. Scum lives. He needs to find a scum that he can actually win against in a 1V1. So yes, he needs to pick scum. But he needs to pick scum that wont get him lynched anyways. Unless he's just scum, in which case well done Galz, you get a town medal.

Sadly ari whisperer, Joseph, died, but...isn't this one of the towniest things you've ever heard?
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jotheonah

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Re: M122: Lalight's run out of ideas Mafia (Day 2!)
« Reply #811 on: May 03, 2019, 03:19:48 pm »

The distinction is in your lack of care regarding finding and challenging scum. If you were town, your absolute goal would be to NOT challenge town here, where town loses 100% of the time, but instead to challenge scum where, even if it’s not convenient for you, there’s a chance of us lynching correctly. You don’t care who you challenge, as long as you win. That isn’t pro-town, that’s pro-Joth, and that’s exactly the approach scum would take to try and appear townie.

You know what the best feature of a Vig is? It’s a 100% town controlled, no scum-input kill. You know what the downside is? It shorts our numbers. Being promoted as town is all the upside and none of the downside. But by making it a public poll all you’re trying to do is garner town favor by “acting” pro-town - instead of just being pro-town.

I disagree. Especially because the outcome of me making the decision without town input would be to piss everyone off, further increasing the already-high chances they vote for me.

Look, if you had picked someone with a lot of town cred, they could have played it the way you're suggesting. Heck, you could have picked yourself if you wanted to play it that way and had some real skin in the game. But what did you think was going to happen when you picked someone who almost got lynched yesterday? In the position I'm in, using my challenge power without town input is suicide.

Also you are being disingenuous when you continually state that I don't care about finding scum. At no point have I suggested that I would use my power against someone I don't think is scum. The question is, out of the set of people I consider to be likely scum, which will I pick? And the answer is, duh, the one I can beat in a 1v1 vote-off. PPE 2

Why would I ever choose someone with town cred or that I thought was town? See, you’re STILL not looking at it from a town perspective. I laid it out D1: The best use of the entire role from a town perspective is to choose the player they MOST think to be scum, because even if they’re wrong, that player then gets to choose again. That’s two opportunities to force scum into being the 50/50 chance. Picking myself would be the absolute worst use of the role as there would then only be one opportunity to find scum (my own challenge choice). By choosing you, I’m essentially saying “Joth is my challenge choice”, except if I’m wrong YOU get to pick your own top choice.

I don’t give a damn about public opinion and neither should you (or any town). If we end up in a town-v-town challenge, regardless if you’re guaranteed to win or not, town loses. So IF you’re town then start acting like it instead of trying primarily to protect your own hide.

This is actually pretty well-stated. And you're right, it would be silly for you to choose yourself or a town read (although has town cred =/= town read) But none of it explains:

(A) Why you would try to goad me into challenging you, which is exactly the opposite of what you've described above
(B) Why you would try to rush me rather than making my decision with a maximum amount of information
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Glooble

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Re: M122: Lalight's run out of ideas Mafia (Day 2!)
« Reply #812 on: May 03, 2019, 03:21:57 pm »

(C) Why you felt the need to claim.
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I think town!Glooble pointing to something as a scum tell and then shortly thereafter doing that thing is a lot more likely than scum!Glooble doing that.

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arishipshape

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Re: M122: Lalight's run out of ideas Mafia (Day 2!)
« Reply #813 on: May 03, 2019, 03:22:07 pm »

But he is thinking from a town perspective by trying to stay alive. From his perspective, assuming he's town, he needs to pick a fight he can win first and foremost. Yes, our goal is to get scum, but let's say he picks a scum and we lynch him instead. Scum lives. He needs to find a scum that he can actually win against in a 1V1. So yes, he needs to pick scum. But he needs to pick scum that wont get him lynched anyways. Unless he's just scum, in which case well done Galz, you get a town medal.
Sadly ari whisperer, Joseph, died, but...isn't this one of the towniest things you've ever heard?
This is why I advocate for pure clarity. I do not understand what you mean. Please explain this particular post with zero sarcasm or jokes. I apologize, understanding those things isn't my strong suit.
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Galzria

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Re: M122: Lalight's run out of ideas Mafia (Day 2!)
« Reply #814 on: May 03, 2019, 03:22:42 pm »

Joth, I used to think you were scum. Then you got promoted and seem to be handling it wonderfully, especially with Galz's claim. You're keeping calm, cool, and logical. Galz, why did you claim?

The role is extremely positive utility for town, as it has all the upside of a Vig with none of the downside - with the added bonus that it’s like if you Vig wrong, your choice gets the added benefit of trying again. Granted town still needs to lynch correctly, but forcing scum into a 50/50 is fantastic. Vig’s are only negative utility because they shorten the game, and are more often wrong than right. This softens that while increasing the odds of finding scum, while simultaneously not shortening the game.

It didn’t make sense to claim yesterday before N1 because I could use my power N1. The odds of me living through N3 in general are significantly reduced however, so the chances it gets used again are slim. The setup knowledge that is granted to town given Joseph’s flip in conjunction with my own role is valuable though, and having it out there (and thus reducing needless speculation going forward) seemed of much higher value.

And lastly the point by MiX made him almost conf!town - which makes him a bad choice for Joth to challenge, which is where Joth was leaning.

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Derphammering is when quickhammers go derp.

Faust has also been incredibly stubborn this game. In other news, it's hot in the summer, and water falls from the sky when it rains.


Mafia Record:
TOWN Wins: M3, M5, M6, M11, M17, M28, M32, M105, M108, M114, M118, M120, M122, DM1, DoM1, OZ2, RM45, RM47, RM48, RM49, RM55
TOWN Losses: M4, M7, M8, M9, M13, M14, M18, M31, M110, M111, M113, M117, M125, RM3, RM4, RM54
SCUM Wins: M2, M19, M23, M100, DM3, RM1, RM2, RM48, RM50
SCUM Losses: M15 (SK), M102 (Tr), OZ1, RM55

Total Wins: 30
Total Losses: 20

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Re: M122: Lalight's run out of ideas Mafia (Day 2!)
« Reply #815 on: May 03, 2019, 03:22:51 pm »

I'm actually coming around to town!MiX here. Either he's town or he's doing a very very good job at buddying.
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Re: M122: Lalight's run out of ideas Mafia (Day 2!)
« Reply #816 on: May 03, 2019, 03:25:16 pm »

The thing is if MiX is town then Galz is. There's no way scum!Galz claims to save town!MiX.
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Re: M122: Lalight's run out of ideas Mafia (Day 2!)
« Reply #817 on: May 03, 2019, 03:26:02 pm »

The thing is if MiX is town then Galz is. There's no way scum!Galz claims to save town!MiX.

And if we're all three town then scum here is just sitting back eating popcorn.
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MiX

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Re: M122: Lalight's run out of ideas Mafia (Day 2!)
« Reply #818 on: May 03, 2019, 03:27:15 pm »

But he is thinking from a town perspective by trying to stay alive. From his perspective, assuming he's town, he needs to pick a fight he can win first and foremost. Yes, our goal is to get scum, but let's say he picks a scum and we lynch him instead. Scum lives. He needs to find a scum that he can actually win against in a 1V1. So yes, he needs to pick scum. But he needs to pick scum that wont get him lynched anyways. Unless he's just scum, in which case well done Galz, you get a town medal.
Sadly ari whisperer, Joseph, died, but...isn't this one of the towniest things you've ever heard?
This is why I advocate for pure clarity. I do not understand what you mean. Please explain this particular post with zero sarcasm or jokes. I apologize, understanding those things isn't my strong suit.

I'm just expressing a townread on you. I agree wholeheartedly with your post, and it seems different from what I recall you doing D2 of your last game (although I don't remember him that well).

The thing is if MiX is town then Galz is. There's no way scum!Galz claims to save town!MiX.

Yeah, that's what I was thinking after Galz explained his claim...

The thing is if MiX is town then Galz is. There's no way scum!Galz claims to save town!MiX.

And if we're all three town then scum here is just sitting back eating popcorn.

I think I can count 3 people who are eating popcorn right now: Swan, gkrieg and EFHW. Are they scum?
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Re: M122: Lalight's run out of ideas Mafia (Day 2!)
« Reply #819 on: May 03, 2019, 03:28:36 pm »

But he is thinking from a town perspective by trying to stay alive. From his perspective, assuming he's town, he needs to pick a fight he can win first and foremost. Yes, our goal is to get scum, but let's say he picks a scum and we lynch him instead. Scum lives. He needs to find a scum that he can actually win against in a 1V1. So yes, he needs to pick scum. But he needs to pick scum that wont get him lynched anyways. Unless he's just scum, in which case well done Galz, you get a town medal.
Sadly ari whisperer, Joseph, died, but...isn't this one of the towniest things you've ever heard?
This is why I advocate for pure clarity. I do not understand what you mean. Please explain this particular post with zero sarcasm or jokes. I apologize, understanding those things isn't my strong suit.

I'm just expressing a townread on you. I agree wholeheartedly with your post, and it seems different from what I recall you doing D2 of your last game (although I don't remember him that well).

The thing is if MiX is town then Galz is. There's no way scum!Galz claims to save town!MiX.

Yeah, that's what I was thinking after Galz explained his claim...

The thing is if MiX is town then Galz is. There's no way scum!Galz claims to save town!MiX.

And if we're all three town then scum here is just sitting back eating popcorn.

I think I can count 3 people who are eating popcorn right now: Swan, gkrieg and EFHW. Are they scum?

This all happened in a pretty short span of time, I think like half of this game hasn't even checked in to see the day has started.
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Glooble

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Re: M122: Lalight's run out of ideas Mafia (Day 2!)
« Reply #820 on: May 03, 2019, 03:28:53 pm »

unvote

I actually can't get the scum!Galz narrative to make sense, but I'm also pretty sure joth is town.
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I think town!Glooble pointing to something as a scum tell and then shortly thereafter doing that thing is a lot more likely than scum!Glooble doing that.

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jotheonah

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Re: M122: Lalight's run out of ideas Mafia (Day 2!)
« Reply #821 on: May 03, 2019, 03:29:49 pm »

But he is thinking from a town perspective by trying to stay alive. From his perspective, assuming he's town, he needs to pick a fight he can win first and foremost. Yes, our goal is to get scum, but let's say he picks a scum and we lynch him instead. Scum lives. He needs to find a scum that he can actually win against in a 1V1. So yes, he needs to pick scum. But he needs to pick scum that wont get him lynched anyways. Unless he's just scum, in which case well done Galz, you get a town medal.
Sadly ari whisperer, Joseph, died, but...isn't this one of the towniest things you've ever heard?
This is why I advocate for pure clarity. I do not understand what you mean. Please explain this particular post with zero sarcasm or jokes. I apologize, understanding those things isn't my strong suit.

I'm just expressing a townread on you. I agree wholeheartedly with your post, and it seems different from what I recall you doing D2 of your last game (although I don't remember him that well).

The thing is if MiX is town then Galz is. There's no way scum!Galz claims to save town!MiX.

Yeah, that's what I was thinking after Galz explained his claim...

The thing is if MiX is town then Galz is. There's no way scum!Galz claims to save town!MiX.

And if we're all three town then scum here is just sitting back eating popcorn.

I think I can count 3 people who are eating popcorn right now: Swan, gkrieg and EFHW. Are they scum?

I guess it's going to take a re-read for me to find out. Alright Galzria, I'm going to operate for the moment on the assumption that you are town.

unvote
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MiX

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Re: M122: Lalight's run out of ideas Mafia (Day 2!)
« Reply #822 on: May 03, 2019, 03:30:21 pm »

Vote: Swan

You have a point ADK, but I believe the only person who hasn't posted yet is Swan. Oh and Space, forgot.
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jotheonah

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Re: M122: Lalight's run out of ideas Mafia (Day 2!)
« Reply #823 on: May 03, 2019, 03:31:24 pm »

But he is thinking from a town perspective by trying to stay alive. From his perspective, assuming he's town, he needs to pick a fight he can win first and foremost. Yes, our goal is to get scum, but let's say he picks a scum and we lynch him instead. Scum lives. He needs to find a scum that he can actually win against in a 1V1. So yes, he needs to pick scum. But he needs to pick scum that wont get him lynched anyways. Unless he's just scum, in which case well done Galz, you get a town medal.
Sadly ari whisperer, Joseph, died, but...isn't this one of the towniest things you've ever heard?
This is why I advocate for pure clarity. I do not understand what you mean. Please explain this particular post with zero sarcasm or jokes. I apologize, understanding those things isn't my strong suit.

I'm just expressing a townread on you. I agree wholeheartedly with your post, and it seems different from what I recall you doing D2 of your last game (although I don't remember him that well).

The thing is if MiX is town then Galz is. There's no way scum!Galz claims to save town!MiX.

Yeah, that's what I was thinking after Galz explained his claim...

The thing is if MiX is town then Galz is. There's no way scum!Galz claims to save town!MiX.

And if we're all three town then scum here is just sitting back eating popcorn.

I think I can count 3 people who are eating popcorn right now: Swan, gkrieg and EFHW. Are they scum?

What about SpaceAnemone?
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"I know old meta, and joth is useless day 1 but awesome town day 3 and on." --Teproc

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Galzria

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Re: M122: Lalight's run out of ideas Mafia (Day 2!)
« Reply #824 on: May 03, 2019, 03:35:19 pm »

The distinction is in your lack of care regarding finding and challenging scum. If you were town, your absolute goal would be to NOT challenge town here, where town loses 100% of the time, but instead to challenge scum where, even if it’s not convenient for you, there’s a chance of us lynching correctly. You don’t care who you challenge, as long as you win. That isn’t pro-town, that’s pro-Joth, and that’s exactly the approach scum would take to try and appear townie.

You know what the best feature of a Vig is? It’s a 100% town controlled, no scum-input kill. You know what the downside is? It shorts our numbers. Being promoted as town is all the upside and none of the downside. But by making it a public poll all you’re trying to do is garner town favor by “acting” pro-town - instead of just being pro-town.

I disagree. Especially because the outcome of me making the decision without town input would be to piss everyone off, further increasing the already-high chances they vote for me.

Look, if you had picked someone with a lot of town cred, they could have played it the way you're suggesting. Heck, you could have picked yourself if you wanted to play it that way and had some real skin in the game. But what did you think was going to happen when you picked someone who almost got lynched yesterday? In the position I'm in, using my challenge power without town input is suicide.

Also you are being disingenuous when you continually state that I don't care about finding scum. At no point have I suggested that I would use my power against someone I don't think is scum. The question is, out of the set of people I consider to be likely scum, which will I pick? And the answer is, duh, the one I can beat in a 1v1 vote-off. PPE 2

Why would I ever choose someone with town cred or that I thought was town? See, you’re STILL not looking at it from a town perspective. I laid it out D1: The best use of the entire role from a town perspective is to choose the player they MOST think to be scum, because even if they’re wrong, that player then gets to choose again. That’s two opportunities to force scum into being the 50/50 chance. Picking myself would be the absolute worst use of the role as there would then only be one opportunity to find scum (my own challenge choice). By choosing you, I’m essentially saying “Joth is my challenge choice”, except if I’m wrong YOU get to pick your own top choice.

I don’t give a damn about public opinion and neither should you (or any town). If we end up in a town-v-town challenge, regardless if you’re guaranteed to win or not, town loses. So IF you’re town then start acting like it instead of trying primarily to protect your own hide.

This is actually pretty well-stated. And you're right, it would be silly for you to choose yourself or a town read (although has town cred =/= town read) But none of it explains:

(A) Why you would try to goad me into challenging you, which is exactly the opposite of what you've described above
(B) Why you would try to rush me rather than making my decision with a maximum amount of information

A) Fair point. I do think you’re scum though, so I doubt you’ll challenge another scum (but by all means please prove me wrong!). However you’re right that challenging me isn’t best. That’s true for everyone though - nobody should want you to challenge them. My personal perspective on it is simply that I promoted you because I thought you were scum, so at that point I accept you’ll challenge another town player regardless. Might as well be me and not a different potential PR. If I’m wrong and you’re town, then definitely don’t challenge me. 😋

B) I rescind my rushing you. However what I want is for you to make the most informed and uninfluenced decision possible (if you’re town). I would be MUCH more willing to take seriously a player that said “I’m challenging X because I honestly believe he’s scum for _________ these reasons” than one that says “I’m challenging X because I can win”.
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Mafia Record:
TOWN Wins: M3, M5, M6, M11, M17, M28, M32, M105, M108, M114, M118, M120, M122, DM1, DoM1, OZ2, RM45, RM47, RM48, RM49, RM55
TOWN Losses: M4, M7, M8, M9, M13, M14, M18, M31, M110, M111, M113, M117, M125, RM3, RM4, RM54
SCUM Wins: M2, M19, M23, M100, DM3, RM1, RM2, RM48, RM50
SCUM Losses: M15 (SK), M102 (Tr), OZ1, RM55

Total Wins: 30
Total Losses: 20
Pages: 1 ... 31 32 [33] 34 35 ... 68  All
 

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