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[jotheonah]

Vote: joth because he has the same reads as me and I would love to know how he plays.

I'm an open book. AMA.

[A Drowned Kernel]

Honestly, if you think of the promoter as a vig of sorts, everything becomes much clearer:We shouldn't try to identify or control them, and furthermore I consider ADK's efforts to control them highly scummy. Scum is afraid of a vig, and they're extra afraid of a compulsive vig they can't control or predict. Let's let our town power role do their thing.

Man, I wish I had the faith in vigs that you guys seem to.

When you're on a team, you should trust your teammates. I find faust's argument that promoter = vig is a flawed analogy more convincing than your argument that vigs are negative utility.

Are faust and I arguing on opposite sides? I don't think faust has come down as pro or anti claim. All he's said so far is that I'm scummy, I'm guessing from his later posts because I wanted to talk about the setup.

[jotheonah]

No I think you're arguing the same thing in different ways, and I'm just saying his is better.

[A Drowned Kernel]

No I think you're arguing the same thing in different ways, and I'm just saying his is better.

Is this related to your scumread on me, or tangential?

[MiX]

I feel like we're focusing a lot on ADK and joth, once this is settled I'll need to see how this came to be.

in fact vote: ADK

Why? Just, why? I'll also use this to say that joth is simply ASSUMING promoter is town when talking about it, something that we do not know. Clearly, the claim shouldn't be forced if we knew promoter was town, since we could trust them to know when to claim.

I agree with Glooble that it was pretty weird how Glooble wasn't mentioned. But I don't think it's that important, speaks more about Glooble than ADK to me.

Vote: joth because he has the same reads as me and I would love to know how he plays.

I'm an open book. AMA.

What do you think of me?

[jotheonah]

No I think you're arguing the same thing in different ways, and I'm just saying his is better.

Is this related to your scumread on me, or tangential?

Tangential.

I feel like we're focusing a lot on ADK and joth, once this is settled I'll need to see how this came to be.

in fact vote: ADK

Why? Just, why? I'll also use this to say that joth is simply ASSUMING promoter is town when talking about it, something that we do not know. Clearly, the claim shouldn't be forced if we knew promoter was town, since we could trust them to know when to claim.

I agree with Glooble that it was pretty weird how Glooble wasn't mentioned. But I don't think it's that important, speaks more about Glooble than ADK to me.

Vote: joth because he has the same reads as me and I would love to know how he plays.

I'm an open book. AMA.

What do you think of me?

A) I'm going to sheep faust, both in my vote for ADK and in my refusal to explain it.
B) We were specifically talking about the utility of a town promoter, so that's where my head was. Also, we can't really force a scum promoter to claim, so realistically a forced claim is going to land on a town promoter.
C) My main experience with you so far was a mod's eye view of DS9, in which you were a serial killer, which is not a super-helpful precedent. So I haven't figured out how to read you yet. You strike me as the sort of person who is easy to misread as scummy when you're town, but that also makes it hard to tell if you're scum.

[A Drowned Kernel]

A) I'm going to sheep faust, both in my vote for ADK and in my refusal to explain it.

Terrible.

[MiX]

A) I'm going to sheep faust, both in my vote for ADK and in my refusal to explain it.
B) We were specifically talking about the utility of a town promoter, so that's where my head was. Also, we can't really force a scum promoter to claim, so realistically a forced claim is going to land on a town promoter.
C) My main experience with you so far was a mod's eye view of DS9, in which you were a serial killer, which is not a super-helpful precedent. So I haven't figured out how to read you yet. You strike me as the sort of person who is easy to misread as scummy when you're town, but that also makes it hard to tell if you're scum.

A) Do you believe you're voting for ADK for the same reasons faust is? And also: do you care if this is true or not?
B) That's fair, I suppose. I still believe we should force a claim so we can say "no one claimed" with absolute certainty.
C) It's helpful enough: it should tell you everything I thought about when getting a scum role. Having partners changes it, but only somewhat, I presume. And yes, I think my previous games showed that it's easier to lynch me as town, I can get pretty sneaky as scum...I miss it.

A) I'm going to sheep faust, both in my vote for ADK and in my refusal to explain it.

Terrible.

Why are you voting for joth again?

[jotheonah]

A) Do you believe you're voting for ADK for the same reasons faust is? And also: do you care if this is true or not?

No and no.

[A Drowned Kernel]

Why are you voting for joth again?

At time I voted, his reads seemed both sheepy and non-committal. At this point it might be a little OMGUS, but I just don't read his read on me as genuine.

[jotheonah]

Why are you voting for joth again?

At time I voted, his reads seemed both sheepy and non-committal. At this point it might be a little OMGUS, but I just don't read his read on me as genuine.

It’s day one and nothing has happened, of course my reads are noncommittal. I’d be worried if anyone had conviction at this point.

[gkrieg13]

Honestly, if you think of the promoter as a vig of sorts, everything becomes much clearer: you are wrong.

FTFY

The advantage of a vig is that it provides additional town-controlled kills. Promoter cannot do that.

I agree here.

[gkrieg13]

Vote: joth because he has the same reads as me and I would love to know how he plays.

vote: MiX for this awful vote.

[Glooble]

vote: chairs for not having shown up yet.

[MiX]

Vote: joth because he has the same reads as me and I would love to know how he plays.

vote: MiX for this awful vote.

It is pretty bad, yes. My scumread on joth grew since then but now it's dying off...

vote: chairs for not having shown up yet.

Eh, why not

Vote: chairs, I need to reread to solidify some gut reads anyway.

[Joseph2302]

Vote: chairs
Would be fun to lynch someone before they post

[Galzria]

If I could vote MiX a second time here, I would.

[MiX]

If I could vote MiX a second time here, I would.

Do you think pushing for the claim is scummy? If so, why? I continue to believe forcing a claim is good if there's scum!Promoter since it locks scum into making a decision here and now and it means we won't have this problem later in the game (town!Promoter claiming gives some power to scum as they can decide if he lives or dies but that's the price we pay). If this is not why you're voting for me, do you want to say what said reason is?

This is when I would change my vote after a reread, but I still want it to be on chairs.

[Galzria]

If I could vote MiX a second time here, I would.

Do you think pushing for the claim is scummy? If so, why? I continue to believe forcing a claim is good if there's scum!Promoter since it locks scum into making a decision here and now and it means we won't have this problem later in the game (town!Promoter claiming gives some power to scum as they can decide if he lives or dies but that's the price we pay). If this is not why you're voting for me, do you want to say what said reason is?

This is when I would change my vote after a reread, but I still want it to be on chairs.

First: You’re not pushing a scum!promoter into doing anything. They aren’t going to claim if they don’t want to do so - even if every person in the game, including them, expressed that the Promoter should claim, they could sit there silently or claim “not Promoter” with the 13 other people claiming the same.

So what you’re actually trying to do, effectively, is get a potential town!Promoter to claim. Which, if you fell on the side of believing it to be a negative utility role is one thing - but that’s not the reason you’ve been arguing for the claim.

Second: You’ve been pushing a potential Traitor to claim the role. This would make sense given, as noted above, a scum!promoter won’t actually claim anyway. The town could “force” the Traitor to use his “power”, and the actual scum!promoter can play right along consequence free.

Third: I don’t believe the initial vote on Chairs for his lack of posting comes from scum all that often, but I’m more inclined to see the first person to jump at that as a reasonable vote as scummy.

[mcmcsalot]

I agree with galz and would also like to double vote for mix

[arishipshape]

Sorry I've been gone all day. I'll read everything I missed tonight, formulate opinions, refute arguments against me, etc. For now, unvote, as I'm sure I've missed many things today that would cause me to change my vote. See you all tonight!

[Glooble]

I’ll be Galz or mcmcsalot’s extra vote and vote: MiX . I like it a little better than the ADK wagon at this point.

[A Drowned Kernel]

Third: I don’t believe the initial vote on Chairs for his lack of posting comes from scum all that often, but I’m more inclined to see the first person to jump at that as a reasonable vote as scummy.

What's your thought on Joseph here?

[SpaceAnemone]

Third: I don’t believe the initial vote on Chairs for his lack of posting comes from scum all that often, but I’m more inclined to see the first person to jump at that as a reasonable vote as scummy.

What's your thought on Joseph here?

I know this question wasn't directed at me, but I've been gone all day and need to start getting into things, and this seems a good starting point! :-)

I would say that Joseph would jump on a wagon just for entertainment value without actually thinking through consequences. Mix doesn't tend to feel that spontaneous.. he's more an over-thinker.

[SpaceAnemone]

Can someone explain to me how Lyncer Doctor works? I don't follow the PM explanation for that one... is it saying that each night they may target one particular player, and only that one player?