Dominion Strategy Forum

Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length
Pages: 1 2 [3] 4 5 ... 41  All

Author Topic: RMM53: A Series of Unfortunate Nightkills (Day 4)  (Read 4505 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

pubby

  • Apprentice
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 275
    • View Profile
Re: RMM53: A Series of Unfortunate Nightkills (Day 1)
« Reply #50 on: May 07, 2019, 09:22:59 am »

I've never played on f.ds before so yeah.

vote: ADK
Logged

faust

  • Board Moderator
  • *
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 2474
  • Shuffle iT Username: faust
    • View Profile
Re: RMM53: A Series of Unfortunate Nightkills (Day 1)
« Reply #51 on: May 07, 2019, 09:25:05 am »

I've never played on f.ds before so yeah.
Did you play elsewhere? How much?
Logged
Since the number of points is within a constant factor of the number of city quarters, in the long run we can get (4 - ε) ↑↑ n points in n turns for any ε > 0.

pubby

  • Apprentice
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 275
    • View Profile
Re: RMM53: A Series of Unfortunate Nightkills (Day 1)
« Reply #52 on: May 07, 2019, 09:29:35 am »

Did you play elsewhere? How much?
Yeah I've played before on other forums and chat rooms. Maybe 10 games total? It's been years though.
Logged

jotheonah

  • Jester
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 988
    • View Profile
Re: RMM53: A Series of Unfortunate Nightkills (Day 1)
« Reply #53 on: May 07, 2019, 09:32:27 am »

Friendly mod reminder: As a new player to our community, please read and sign the civility pledge.
Logged
"I know old meta, and joth is useless day 1 but awesome town day 3 and on." --Teproc

He/him

pubby

  • Apprentice
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 275
    • View Profile
Re: RMM53: A Series of Unfortunate Nightkills (Day 1)
« Reply #54 on: May 07, 2019, 09:49:10 am »

Thanks.
Logged

faust

  • Board Moderator
  • *
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 2474
  • Shuffle iT Username: faust
    • View Profile
Re: RMM53: A Series of Unfortunate Nightkills (Day 1)
« Reply #55 on: May 07, 2019, 09:59:03 am »

If I understand the setup correctly, there are 4 groups of people:

3 Baudelaires
3 scums
3 VFD people
4 random townies that don't belong to any group

I feel like something could be gained from a VFD vs non-VFD claim (where Baudelaires claim whatever). But maybe that's dangerous for like flavor reasons that I am not aware of.
Logged
Since the number of points is within a constant factor of the number of city quarters, in the long run we can get (4 - ε) ↑↑ n points in n turns for any ε > 0.

Awaclus

  • Adventurer
  • ******
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 11120
  • Shuffle iT Username: Awaclus
  • (。 ω 。`)
    • View Profile
Re: RMM53: A Series of Unfortunate Nightkills (Day 1)
« Reply #56 on: May 07, 2019, 10:34:19 am »

If I understand the setup correctly, there are 4 groups of people:

3 Baudelaires
3 scums
3 VFD people
4 random townies that don't belong to any group

I feel like something could be gained from a VFD vs non-VFD claim (where Baudelaires claim whatever). But maybe that's dangerous for like flavor reasons that I am not aware of.

What are you envisioning we would gain from this?
Logged
Bomb, Cannon, and many of the Gunpowder cards can strongly effect gameplay, particularly in a destructive way

The Twitch channel where I stream DominionThe YouTube channel where I make musicDownload my band's albums for free

faust

  • Board Moderator
  • *
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 2474
  • Shuffle iT Username: faust
    • View Profile
Re: RMM53: A Series of Unfortunate Nightkills (Day 1)
« Reply #57 on: May 07, 2019, 10:37:13 am »

If I understand the setup correctly, there are 4 groups of people:

3 Baudelaires
3 scums
3 VFD people
4 random townies that don't belong to any group

I feel like something could be gained from a VFD vs non-VFD claim (where Baudelaires claim whatever). But maybe that's dangerous for like flavor reasons that I am not aware of.

What are you envisioning we would gain from this?
PoE down the line. I guess it's irrelevant if VFD flips with your role, but otherwise now might be the only chance... let me check on that.
Logged
Since the number of points is within a constant factor of the number of city quarters, in the long run we can get (4 - ε) ↑↑ n points in n turns for any ε > 0.

WestCoastDidds

  • Pearl Diver
  • **
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 14
  • Shuffle iT Username: WestCoastDidds
  • Didds, ya'll
    • View Profile
Re: RMM53: A Series of Unfortunate Nightkills (Day 1)
« Reply #58 on: May 07, 2019, 10:39:35 am »

Hi friends! Good to see you all!

Welcome, pubby. What are your preferred pronouns? Whats your time zone? Anything else we should know?

Im a she, in central time, I believe animals should have human names so there is some ambiguity when speaking about loved ones, children, and cats....Scott, Brad, Jeremy, Declan...who can tell which us which?!?
Logged
It's probably not townie mctownerson WCD.

faust

  • Board Moderator
  • *
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 2474
  • Shuffle iT Username: faust
    • View Profile
Re: RMM53: A Series of Unfortunate Nightkills (Day 1)
« Reply #59 on: May 07, 2019, 10:42:14 am »

Im a she, in central time, I believe animals should have human names so there is some ambiguity when speaking about loved ones, children, and cats....Scott, Brad, Jeremy, Declan...who can tell which us which?!?
Alternatively, you could give your children animal names!
Logged
Since the number of points is within a constant factor of the number of city quarters, in the long run we can get (4 - ε) ↑↑ n points in n turns for any ε > 0.

Awaclus

  • Adventurer
  • ******
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 11120
  • Shuffle iT Username: Awaclus
  • (。 ω 。`)
    • View Profile
Re: RMM53: A Series of Unfortunate Nightkills (Day 1)
« Reply #60 on: May 07, 2019, 10:49:24 am »

After thinking about it a little, I'm inclined to support faust's plan. Concretely, it would divide us into two groups of people:

 - people who are guaranteed to not be VFD town
 - people who are guaranteed to not be non-VFD town

It's not hard to see how this could be inconvenient for scum later on in the game.
Logged
Bomb, Cannon, and many of the Gunpowder cards can strongly effect gameplay, particularly in a destructive way

The Twitch channel where I stream DominionThe YouTube channel where I make musicDownload my band's albums for free

Awaclus

  • Adventurer
  • ******
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 11120
  • Shuffle iT Username: Awaclus
  • (。 ω 。`)
    • View Profile
Re: RMM53: A Series of Unfortunate Nightkills (Day 1)
« Reply #61 on: May 07, 2019, 10:50:56 am »

And "non-VFD" town is a term which here means "the random townies", i.e. non-VFD, non-Baudelaire town.
Logged
Bomb, Cannon, and many of the Gunpowder cards can strongly effect gameplay, particularly in a destructive way

The Twitch channel where I stream DominionThe YouTube channel where I make musicDownload my band's albums for free

A Drowned Kernel

  • 2015 World Champion
  • *
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1062
  • They/Them
    • View Profile
Re: RMM53: A Series of Unfortunate Nightkills (Day 1)
« Reply #62 on: May 07, 2019, 10:55:20 am »

If I understand the setup correctly, there are 4 groups of people:

3 Baudelaires
3 scums
3 VFD people
4 random townies that don't belong to any group

I feel like something could be gained from a VFD vs non-VFD claim (where Baudelaires claim whatever). But maybe that's dangerous for like flavor reasons that I am not aware of.

It does give scum better PoE for killing Baudelaires so I'm not a fan
Logged
The perfect engine
But it will never go off
Three piles are empty

Awaclus

  • Adventurer
  • ******
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 11120
  • Shuffle iT Username: Awaclus
  • (。 ω 。`)
    • View Profile
Re: RMM53: A Series of Unfortunate Nightkills (Day 1)
« Reply #63 on: May 07, 2019, 11:00:22 am »

If I understand the setup correctly, there are 4 groups of people:

3 Baudelaires
3 scums
3 VFD people
4 random townies that don't belong to any group

I feel like something could be gained from a VFD vs non-VFD claim (where Baudelaires claim whatever). But maybe that's dangerous for like flavor reasons that I am not aware of.

It does give scum better PoE for killing Baudelaires so I'm not a fan

It also gives town better PoE for protecting Baudelaires if we have any relevant roles.
Logged
Bomb, Cannon, and many of the Gunpowder cards can strongly effect gameplay, particularly in a destructive way

The Twitch channel where I stream DominionThe YouTube channel where I make musicDownload my band's albums for free

faust

  • Board Moderator
  • *
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 2474
  • Shuffle iT Username: faust
    • View Profile
Re: RMM53: A Series of Unfortunate Nightkills (Day 1)
« Reply #64 on: May 07, 2019, 11:02:07 am »

If I understand the setup correctly, there are 4 groups of people:

3 Baudelaires
3 scums
3 VFD people
4 random townies that don't belong to any group

I feel like something could be gained from a VFD vs non-VFD claim (where Baudelaires claim whatever). But maybe that's dangerous for like flavor reasons that I am not aware of.

It does give scum better PoE for killing Baudelaires so I'm not a fan

It also gives town better PoE for protecting Baudelaires if we have any relevant roles.
It is true however that scum PoE is better than town PoE there, because scum would know exactly how many Baudelaires are in each group, whereas town wouldn't.
Logged
Since the number of points is within a constant factor of the number of city quarters, in the long run we can get (4 - ε) ↑↑ n points in n turns for any ε > 0.

jotheonah

  • Jester
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 988
    • View Profile
Re: RMM53: A Series of Unfortunate Nightkills (Night 0)
« Reply #65 on: May 07, 2019, 11:08:21 am »

As all educated people know, it is important to be precise in one's use of language. For instance, if you were to tell your spouse or roommate that you were chatting online with your mafia friends, you would want to specify how the word "mafia" is being used, so that your spouse or roommate knows that you are playing a fictional game called mafia, rather than engaging in actual illicit activity via the Internet.

Similarly, if you were the moderator of a themed mafia game, you might want to be careful to specify how terms such as "VFD" and "volunteer" are used, lest you introduce the wrong kind of confusion into your player base. In that case, you might want to tell them explicitly that the VFD is an organization which has splintered, and that for the purposes of this game the term "VFD" will refer to both the Arsonist and Volunteer factions, while the term "volunteer" will refer only to the side of the schism concerned with protecting the Baudelaire children. You might even need to edit a previous flavor post to avoid any confusion on the subject.

As that hypothetical moderator, you might even want to go as far as to inform your players about what information will be revealed when someone in the game dies. But then again, you might not.


Vote Count 1.1

A Drowned Kernel (2): Awaclus, pubby
raerae (1): MiX
pubby (1): A Drowned Kernel

Not voting (13): shraeye, 2.71828....., raerae, WestCoastDidds, DatSwan, ashersky, UncleEurope, mcmcsalot, faust

With 13 players alive, it take 7 to lynch most players. Day 1 will end at 8:35 AM FT on May 12th.
Logged
"I know old meta, and joth is useless day 1 but awesome town day 3 and on." --Teproc

He/him

Awaclus

  • Adventurer
  • ******
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 11120
  • Shuffle iT Username: Awaclus
  • (。 ω 。`)
    • View Profile
Re: RMM53: A Series of Unfortunate Nightkills (Day 1)
« Reply #66 on: May 07, 2019, 11:13:09 am »

I don't think this affects the plan at all, does it? Scum can still claim whatever.
Logged
Bomb, Cannon, and many of the Gunpowder cards can strongly effect gameplay, particularly in a destructive way

The Twitch channel where I stream DominionThe YouTube channel where I make musicDownload my band's albums for free

pubby

  • Apprentice
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 275
    • View Profile
Re: RMM53: A Series of Unfortunate Nightkills (Day 1)
« Reply #67 on: May 07, 2019, 11:19:34 am »

I guess I'm confused. If scum fakes their role and the Baudelaires fake their role too, then that's 6 fake claims to 7 genuine ones. Is that actually helpful?

Welcome, pubby. What are your preferred pronouns? Whats your time zone? Anything else we should know?
Hi WestCoastDidds. I'm a he in central US time.
Logged

MiX

  • Chancellor
  • ***
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 23
  • Shuffle iT Username: MiX
  • It's me.
    • View Profile
Re: RMM53: A Series of Unfortunate Nightkills (Day 1)
« Reply #68 on: May 07, 2019, 11:26:01 am »

I think this plan is a bit...interesting? is probably the word for this.

Pros:
- Scum are locked into claiming VFD or not
- Baudelaire know where scum are
- At exactly 4 town / 3 VFD, everyone there is an IC (obviously counting dead ones that flipped)

Cons:
- Scum know where Baudelaire are
- VFD are presumely stronger PRs, given the flavour, so they'll get targetted first
- Baudelaire can't claim to know where scum are located, so they cannot share this information to town: comparitively, scum can NK freely based on the PoE, meaning it's stronger for them.

Overall I don't think it's worth it, unless we get the "exactly 4 town / 3 VFD" scenario, which honestly seems hard and PoEs Baudelaire like crazy. I might think of all the possible cases for the Baudelaire/scum spread and what it means, but meh, I don't like it.

PPE 1
Logged
I dont think even MiX is townreading MiX.

mcmcsalot

  • Explorer
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 336
  • Shuffle iT Username: mcmcsalot
    • View Profile
Re: RMM53: A Series of Unfortunate Nightkills (Day 1)
« Reply #69 on: May 07, 2019, 11:52:01 am »

I am very confused.
Logged
Wins: M19, M21, M23, M24, M26, M39, M91, M94, M102, M104, M107, M114, M115
Losses: M20, M22, M25, M27, M30, M31, M35, M38, M40, M42, M46, M60, M90, M93, M96, M98, M100, M101, M106, M111, M113
Winrate: 38.2%(13/34) 29.6%(8/27), 71.4%(5/7)

Uncleeurope

  • Pawn
  • **
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 3
    • View Profile
Re: RMM53: A Series of Unfortunate Nightkills (Day 1)
« Reply #70 on: May 07, 2019, 01:17:36 pm »

Hi.

Vote: mcmc

Oh, and me no likey claim, but it is quite possible that I don't understand the benefits fully.
Logged
Uncleeurope Eddie

Awaclus

  • Adventurer
  • ******
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 11120
  • Shuffle iT Username: Awaclus
  • (。 ω 。`)
    • View Profile
Re: RMM53: A Series of Unfortunate Nightkills (Day 1)
« Reply #71 on: May 07, 2019, 02:06:50 pm »

- Baudelaire know where scum are
- Scum know where Baudelaire are

No they don't.
Logged
Bomb, Cannon, and many of the Gunpowder cards can strongly effect gameplay, particularly in a destructive way

The Twitch channel where I stream DominionThe YouTube channel where I make musicDownload my band's albums for free

MiX

  • Chancellor
  • ***
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 23
  • Shuffle iT Username: MiX
  • It's me.
    • View Profile
Re: RMM53: A Series of Unfortunate Nightkills (Day 1)
« Reply #72 on: May 07, 2019, 02:16:36 pm »

- Baudelaire know where scum are
- Scum know where Baudelaire are

No they don't.

Picture this: suppose 2 of each side claim VFD while the other claims non-VFD. For both of them, they see 5 non-VFD out of 4 and 5 VFD out of 3 that aren't part of their team. Ergo, there must be 1 of the other team in the non-VFD side and 2 of the other team in the VFD side. Thus, they know where each other are in the split. This is obviously true for other claim scenarios.


Why is raerae not here? :(
Logged
I dont think even MiX is townreading MiX.

pubby

  • Apprentice
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 275
    • View Profile
Re: RMM53: A Series of Unfortunate Nightkills (Day 1)
« Reply #73 on: May 07, 2019, 02:17:35 pm »

Hmm so I was thinking about this from a certain perspective, but MiX's post made me realize there's more to it.

Take the plan from the perspective of scum. It makes sense, that's for sure. Imagine this: if everyone role-claims then the 10 non-scum players are partitioned into two groups: those claiming to be volunteers, and those claiming to be non-volunteer townies. Knowing these partitions provides tons of valuable insight, even on the first night. For example: if 5 out of 10 people claim to be volunteers, then that means 2 Baudelaires are in that group of 5 (because there's supposed to be exactly 3 volunteers, not 5). If scum picked a player at random from the 5 players claiming to be volunteers, they'd have a 2/5 chance of picking a Baudelaire. This is better than the 3/10 chance they'd have picking someone at random if nobody role claimed. And these partitions are useful for the ENTIRE game - eventually you get some true deduction and can pinpoint roles more accurately. (plus, if the volunteers are assumed to be power roles, the odds of night killing someone important is 100%)

tl;dr: everyone claiming volunteer status strongly benefit scum

The Baudelaires can benefit in a similar manner to find scum, but it's weaker. Playing the odds isn't super smart as town (if you guess wrong, your town friends die!), but even worse, taking action requires going public and good luck doing that without first telling everyone you're a Baudelaire. Unless I'm missing something, the plan benefits the Baudelaires less than it benefits scum, though this could differ depending on their abilities.

Beyond that, the gained information doesn't seem useful to volunteers and non-volunteer townies. I mean, if you don't know anyone else then 6 out of 12 people are lying to you. Can you really act on that? And if you were a a power role would you really want to reveal yourself? Seems unlikely.

So here's a hot take: Faust, for suggesting the idea, could be Scum, maybe Baudelaire. I don't think he'd suggest the idea if he were otherwise.
Logged

MiX

  • Chancellor
  • ***
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 23
  • Shuffle iT Username: MiX
  • It's me.
    • View Profile
Re: RMM53: A Series of Unfortunate Nightkills (Day 1)
« Reply #74 on: May 07, 2019, 02:28:02 pm »

pubby hitting all the points I hit, I guess I'm flattered. I agree with his exaggeration of the scum advantage relative to the Baudelaire advantage, especially the "playing the odds" part. Well, I was about to put forward a scenario where Baudelaire eventually claim (just 1) to out their info but that's actually not going to happen. For now:

Vote: faust, incredible plan here. The only problem is scum!faust probably doesn't do this, my read here is that faust has a PR that wants this, and that makes a little bit more sense as scum.
Logged
I dont think even MiX is townreading MiX.
Pages: 1 2 [3] 4 5 ... 41  All
 

Page created in 0.098 seconds with 20 queries.