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Author Topic: Throne Room / Mining Village  (Read 316 times)

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twl_corinthian

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Throne Room / Mining Village
« on: March 26, 2019, 08:16:17 am »
+1

Throne Rooming a Mining Village. (or King's Courting it, etc). I still don't quite get it.

Intrigue rulebook (p8) says I can trash Mining Village the first time it's played, but not the second, but also that I do get the action/card bonuses for the second play.

Does the 'Lose Track' thing apply? If so, doesn't that prevent the second play entirely (contradicting the rulebook clarification)? If not, where does Mining Village end up? If it's been moved back in play, it's not in the trash any more, so if it's not trashed the second time (either by rule or by choice) presumably it just discards as normal? So we get a trashing bonus then we get the card back... seem like a fair trick to me tbh, or not broken in this case anyway.

(Even more pedantic bit: why can't I trash it a second time? With Feast you can iirc, so is Mining Village just a specific exception?)
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Awaclus

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Re: Throne Room / Mining Village
« Reply #1 on: March 26, 2019, 08:40:03 am »
+3

The answer to this is actually very simple: you can't trash something which is already in the trash. The reason why Mining Village and Feast are different is that Mining Village has "you may trash this for +$2" which means that you don't get the +$2 unless you actually did trash it. Feast just trashes itself and then, completely unrelatedly, it gains a card, so when you Throne it, what happens is that you trash it, you gain a card, you try to trash it again but you can't because it's already in the trash, and then you gain another card.

The same applies to the other on-play benefits of Mining Village. They're not dependent on the trashing, so you can throne Mining Village, get +1 card +2 Actions, trash Mining Village for +$2, get +1 card +2 Actions again, try to trash Mining Village again which doesn't work because it's already in the trash and then you don't get the +$2 because you didn't actually trash the card.
« Last Edit: March 26, 2019, 08:42:37 am by Awaclus »
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Re: Throne Room / Mining Village
« Reply #2 on: March 26, 2019, 08:45:19 am »
+2

Effects described with "for" or "if you do" are conditional on the successful execution of the thing before it.

"You may trash this for $2", only gives you two if you did the trash this successfully.

No other effects of cards are conditional on following other instructions or the card being in play (excluding "while this is in play", obviously). So even though Feast or Mining Village are in the trash the second time Throne Room plays them, you still do what they say, except for the parts you can't ("trash this") and any effects conditional upon stuff you can't do ("for $2").

Feast's gain is *not* conditional on trashing the card, it is just that trashing the card is not an optional effect (no "you may") so you usually do both. When you can't, it doesn't stop the other effect of gaining a card, since there is no "for" or "if you do".
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GendoIkari

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Re: Throne Room / Mining Village
« Reply #3 on: March 26, 2019, 09:09:03 am »
+2

Lose Track does apply, but it is important to remember that Lose Track never stops you from playing a card, it only ever stops a card from being moved.

The steps that happen (skipping over the steps you know such as getting +cards and +actions)

1. Play Throne Room

2. Play Mining Village; it moves from your hand to in-play.

3. Trash Mining Village; it moves from in-play to the trash.

4. Play Mining Village again.  It cannot be moved because Throne Room has Lost Track of it. It can still be played, but it stays in the trash. So you still follow the instructions on the card because you played it; it just won't move from the trash to in-play.

5. Try to trash Mining Village; you can't. There are actually 2 separate reasons that you can't. First off, because you can't trash something that's already in the trash. Second, because Lose Track applies. Mining Village expects itself to be in-play, but it isn't. Because it isn't where Mining Village expects, it can't be moved.

Because you never actually trashed it the second time, even if you tried to, you don't get the + the second time. The "For" wording requires you to do the first action to get the benefit.
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twl_corinthian

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Re: Throne Room / Mining Village
« Reply #4 on: March 26, 2019, 11:18:34 am »
0

Thanks gang! (wow is this ever a very technical rules explanation though :P )
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Jeebus

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Re: Throne Room / Mining Village
« Reply #5 on: March 27, 2019, 11:23:20 am »
0

Lose Track does apply, but it is important to remember that Lose Track never stops you from playing a card, it only ever stops a card from being moved.
Quoted and bolded because it's such a common misreading of the rule.

Slightly more detailed rundown: http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=19394.msg782045#msg782045
This is at least the third thread recently that boils down to this question.
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