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Author Topic: BoM wording  (Read 466 times)

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hhelibebcnofnena

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BoM wording
« on: March 18, 2019, 08:34:20 pm »
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Okay, so Band of Misfits says "this is that card until it leaves play". Say you Throne a BoM and play it as Acting Troupe, trashing itself, then playing itself as Village. (Acting Troupe and Village are examples). After the second play, it's not in play to begin with, so it can't leave play. This means the BoM remains in the trash as a Village, until someone does something like gain it back with a Rogue then play it again (still as a Village) from their hand, thus letting it leave play at the end of their turn.

This doesn't seem like it is correct, because you could easily lose track (physically, not rules-wise) of which BoM is actually a Village, especially once you gain it back with Rogue, unless you put a sticker on it or something. But I can't find any official ruling that would prevent this.
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crj

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Re: BoM wording
« Reply #1 on: March 18, 2019, 09:42:47 pm »
+4

Hmm. I think "until it leaves play" is intended to be read as "until it is no longer in play", so if it doesn't enter play, it ceases being the emulated card immediately rather than never ceasing being it.
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hhelibebcnofnena

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Re: BoM wording
« Reply #2 on: March 18, 2019, 09:48:41 pm »
+1

Hmm. I think "until it leaves play" is intended to be read as "until it is no longer in play", so if it doesn't enter play, it ceases being the emulated card immediately rather than never ceasing being it.

Oh, that could make sense. It still plays itself "as if it were a cheaper Action card in the supply", but it just doesn't become that card. I still think the wording is ambiguous though.
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Jeebus

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Re: BoM wording
« Reply #3 on: March 19, 2019, 10:32:51 am »
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There was indeed a long discussion about this, and Donald changed the ruling at least once. The way it works is that when you play a BoM from the trash, you choose a card and get the on-play ability, but the BoM never becomes the chosen card. It's always just a BoM (or bum?) in the trash.

Ingix

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Re: BoM wording
« Reply #4 on: March 19, 2019, 10:33:21 am »
+1

The ruling from Donald, IIRC, was that it becomes that card, then immediately stops being it, in the scenario given.

There are a few rare edge cases where that can matter, like playing an Overlord in the trash as a BoM: The BoM sees itself as having cost D8 (it reverted to the Overlord cost that fast), and now allows you to play anything costing less (like an Engineer).
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crj

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Re: BoM wording
« Reply #5 on: March 19, 2019, 11:13:47 am »
+1

the BoM never becomes the chosen card. It's always just a BoM (or bum?) in the trash.
it becomes that card, then immediately stops being it
Which?

Those two are subtly different, though I confess I'm struggling to construct an example twisted enough for it to matter!
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Jeebus

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Re: BoM wording
« Reply #6 on: March 19, 2019, 12:29:57 pm »
+1

This is Donald's ruling:

There remains the weird special case for Throne - BoM - Feast. Possibly I should drop it; the people who are never guessing how it works are never seeing it either. I guess there's still the chance to make the call as to what it means to play a card that instantly stops being itself; maybe that's fine, it still does everything, therefore Throne - BoM - Feast means you choose the second time and successfully play whatever you picked.

BoM immediately stopped being Scout, but that's okay, we still execute the instructions on Scout.

Ingix is right that it becomes the chosen card, then immediately reverts to BoM. But I think it really doesn't matter, since "immediately" means right after we trigger the on-play instructions and before we start resolving them. An Overlord in the trash will instantly revert to Overlord and be Overlord when we are resolving the on-play ability. So it will cost D8 no matter how we phrase it.

hhelibebcnofnena

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Re: BoM wording
« Reply #7 on: March 19, 2019, 04:14:10 pm »
+1

Ingix is right that it becomes the chosen card, then immediately reverts to BoM. But I think it really doesn't matter, since "immediately" means right after we trigger the on-play instructions and before we start resolving them. An Overlord in the trash will instantly revert to Overlord and be Overlord when we are resolving the on-play ability. So it will cost D8 no matter how we phrase it.

Corner case: Vanilla bonus tokens. I'm pretty sure you still get the bonus, but if it never was that card, you wouldn't.

Another corner case: Moat and other Reactions. I'm pretty sure the same thing applies. BoM isn't an Attack, but it briefly becomes one.

So I think it does actually matter, but I'm not sure about that.
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Jeebus

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Re: BoM wording
« Reply #8 on: March 19, 2019, 04:35:59 pm »
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Corner case: Vanilla bonus tokens. I'm pretty sure you still get the bonus, but if it never was that card, you wouldn't.

Yes, I'm pretty sure that you get the bonus too.

Quote
Another corner case: Moat and other Reactions. I'm pretty sure the same thing applies. BoM isn't an Attack, but it briefly becomes one.

So I think it does actually matter, but I'm not sure about that.

Maybe. The important thing is that when you play BoM "as" the chosen card, that counts as playing the card. You played a card from a pile with a token. Or you played an Attack card.

GendoIkari

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Re: BoM wording
« Reply #9 on: March 19, 2019, 04:47:03 pm »
+1

The important thing is that when you play BoM "as" the chosen card, that counts as playing the card. You played a card from a pile with a token. Or you played an Attack card.

Yes, and this is the same as why the bonus tokens should work. I think that if BoM didn't have the "This is that card until it leaves play" at all; then it would still function for everything that cares about what happens when you play a card, including Moat, etc. You would just lose out on all while-in-play abilities, Duration tracking, and things like Horn of Plenty checking which cards are in play.
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