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Author Topic: Inn and Watchtower  (Read 1392 times)

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crj

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Inn and Watchtower
« on: March 07, 2019, 01:31:39 pm »
+3

I feel like this must have been asked before, but I'm not finding it. (This is a rather different question.)

I have a Watchtower in hand. I have many cool things, including an Inn, in my discard pile. I buy another Inn.

Firstly, am I correct that I can choose in which order to invoke Inn's "when you gain this" and Watchtower's "when you gain a card"?

Suppose I choose to deal with Inn first. I choose a bunch of actions from the discard pile, including the Inn I already had, and shuffle them into my deck.

Now I want to react with Watchtower to top-deck the Inn I just gained. Can I do that? Obviously, I'll have taken care to leave it on top of my discard pile rather than covering it with some other card, but does the mere act of selecting cards from my discard pile make Watchtower Lose Track of my newly-gained Inn?
« Last Edit: March 07, 2019, 01:37:28 pm by crj »
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dane-m

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Re: Inn and Watchtower
« Reply #1 on: March 07, 2019, 02:28:44 pm »
0

Firstly, am I correct that I can choose in which order to invoke Inn's "when you gain this" and Watchtower's "when you gain a card"?
Yes.

Quote
Suppose I choose to deal with Inn first. I choose a bunch of actions from the discard pile, including the Inn I already had, and shuffle them into my deck.

Now I want to react with Watchtower to top-deck the Inn I just gained. Can I do that? Obviously, I'll have taken care to leave it on top of my discard pile rather than covering it with some other card, but does the mere act of selecting cards from my discard pile make Watchtower Lose Track of my newly-gained Inn?
I believe it does.  There is no way for Watchtower to know that the Inn on top of your discard pile is the one you just gained.
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crj

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Re: Inn and Watchtower
« Reply #2 on: March 07, 2019, 04:30:27 pm »
+1

There is no way for Watchtower to know that the Inn on top of your discard pile is the one you just gained.
The official rule is "Things lose track of a card if something moves it, if it is the top card of a deck and gets covered up, or if it is the top card of a discard pile and gets covered up." which doesn't quite seem to include this circumstance.

Meanwhile, the official rules for Inn include "It does not matter what order you leave your discard pile in afterwards." For that to be true, Watchtower would have to lose track when you "look through" your discard pile, but it's not a foregone conclusion that such a consequence was intended when that rule was written - especially as the looking isn't optional.

By that interpretation of the rules, Watchtower could lose track of the top card of your discard pile without your even touching the pile, which would be pretty surprising.

I really don't know which way to lean on this one - hence my asking!
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Donald X.

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Re: Inn and Watchtower
« Reply #3 on: March 07, 2019, 04:56:13 pm »
+3

Now I want to react with Watchtower to top-deck the Inn I just gained. Can I do that? Obviously, I'll have taken care to leave it on top of my discard pile rather than covering it with some other card, but does the mere act of selecting cards from my discard pile make Watchtower Lose Track of my newly-gained Inn?
A technical reading of the rules doesn't prevent this. You didn't cover up the Inn. We don't require you to keep your discard pile in the same order; if you cover up the Inn you can't do it. But uh online you can't change the order and irl if you pick up the discard pile and shuffle it and then oops wanted the Inn still on top, man it doesn't matter if you get the wrong Inn.

If I'd considered this case though, the rules might disallow it, in an effort to make it so you can learn the lose-track rule and actually know what will happen in cases like this. You physically pick up your discard pile, making it feel like you must be losing track in there. So, this ruling may change. But I like to go by the rulebook when I can, and while the rulebook doesn't actually cover all cases, the other cases were uh different.
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Ingix

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Re: Inn and Watchtower
« Reply #4 on: March 08, 2019, 04:11:27 am »
+1

I'd like to add that online the top card is preserved, that means it matters if you take the 'new' (on top) Inn or the 'old' one. If you take the old one (and not the new one), the Watchtower can still affect the one on top.
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Jeebus

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Re: Inn and Watchtower
« Reply #5 on: March 11, 2019, 05:39:29 pm »
+1

This is an old ruling, which is also most likely the reason it works like that in Dominion Online: http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?topic=1028.msg16408#msg16408
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