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Author Topic: Bread and Circuses: A New Semi-Open Setup for 14 Players  (Read 868 times)

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Uncleeurope

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Re: Bread and Circuses: A New Semi-Open Setup for 14 Players
« Reply #25 on: March 02, 2019, 03:50:07 pm »

Claiming Jester only works after scum know there is a Jester in the game, because otherwise anyone in the Sirvivor block can insta lynch a Jester claim.
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jotheonah

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Re: Bread and Circuses: A New Semi-Open Setup for 14 Players
« Reply #26 on: March 02, 2019, 05:34:45 pm »

Ah, ok.
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UmbrageOfSnow

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Re: Bread and Circuses: A New Semi-Open Setup for 14 Players
« Reply #27 on: March 02, 2019, 05:38:59 pm »

There's also the meta question of how much does Jester want to claim Jester. No one wants to lynch the Jester in this setup, so it's not the best way for Jester to win. Jester only wants to claim Jester if they think town won't buy Jester claiming Jester and will lynch them anyway because only scum would claim Jester.

Yes, it's a pile of WIFOM, but I'm not sure the equilibrium is overpowered for scum. It is possible it's more scumsided than we think for these reasons though, which is why I'm not too worried about massclaim later in the game improving things for town.
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UmbrageOfSnow

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Re: Bread and Circuses: A New Semi-Open Setup for 14 Players
« Reply #28 on: March 02, 2019, 05:40:04 pm »

One of the goals of this was that UE suggested we should have a Jester that was 50% likely and had a downside to lynching and then we tossed around roles that would be interesting with that and came up with Gladiator and started messing with it.
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jotheonah

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Re: Bread and Circuses: A New Semi-Open Setup for 14 Players
« Reply #29 on: March 02, 2019, 07:05:52 pm »

Well I would say I disagree with faust on being opposed to a Jester on principle. I would play a thoughtful setup with a Jester in it, and I would probably be thrilled to end up with the role. I don't think its inherently bastard, although that is the official line at mafiascum, I believe.
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chairs

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Re: Bread and Circuses: A New Semi-Open Setup for 14 Players
« Reply #30 on: March 04, 2019, 08:12:58 am »

I would be into this setup.

faust

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Re: Bread and Circuses: A New Semi-Open Setup for 14 Players
« Reply #31 on: March 04, 2019, 08:20:04 am »

Well I would say I disagree with faust on being opposed to a Jester on principle. I would play a thoughtful setup with a Jester in it, and I would probably be thrilled to end up with the role. I don't think its inherently bastard, although that is the official line at mafiascum, I believe.
I don't think it's bastard, it just isn't fun to me.
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UmbrageOfSnow

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Re: Bread and Circuses: A New Semi-Open Setup for 14 Players
« Reply #32 on: March 05, 2019, 03:08:03 pm »

Looking at best and worst cases for the different possibilities, there are a lot of ways for this game to be over fast. Making it so Vengeful Townie and 2nd Bodyguard don't line up was a big improvement.

It's going to be swingy no matter what I do, question is if it's
a)balanced (scum and town have ~equal chance of winning, 3rd parties have a fair shot.)
b)rewards better play
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UmbrageOfSnow

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Re: Bread and Circuses: A New Semi-Open Setup for 14 Players
« Reply #33 on: March 05, 2019, 05:27:25 pm »

Yeah, setup D in particular isn't just swingy, it's too scumsided, it's either a scum sweep or a fair game iff Survivor or 1 scum die early.

After some discussion we're changing the Survivor to a Lyncher/Executioner/whatever you want to call it and seeing how that looks.
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UmbrageOfSnow

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Re: Bread and Circuses: A New Semi-Open Setup for 14 Players
« Reply #34 on: March 05, 2019, 06:04:19 pm »

We decided on a weird possibly self-targeting doctor lyncher, feedback welcome, I'm wasting a bunch of time debating balance tonight.
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MiX

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Re: Bread and Circuses: A New Semi-Open Setup for 14 Players
« Reply #35 on: March 07, 2019, 12:29:42 pm »

After the lyncher's target is lynched...what happens? Does the game end? That would be a very awkward ending...but if it doesn't then the lyncher has nothing to do all game.

That probably needs to be fixed, I wouldn't like either of those options...
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UmbrageOfSnow

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Re: Bread and Circuses: A New Semi-Open Setup for 14 Players
« Reply #36 on: March 07, 2019, 12:37:47 pm »

It comes pre-fixed, it's in the Lyncher's role PM.

Lyncher dies victorious and the game continues.
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UmbrageOfSnow

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Re: Bread and Circuses: A New Semi-Open Setup for 14 Players
« Reply #37 on: March 07, 2019, 12:38:27 pm »

The lyncher can rejoice in shared victory with either town or scum.
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MiX

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Re: Bread and Circuses: A New Semi-Open Setup for 14 Players
« Reply #38 on: March 07, 2019, 12:45:59 pm »

Oh "dies" also counts getting lynched. Oops.
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jotheonah

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Re: Bread and Circuses: A New Semi-Open Setup for 14 Players
« Reply #39 on: March 07, 2019, 12:53:00 pm »

How bad is it if the bodyguards manage to work out right away a way to coordinate their targets? That seems potentially game-breaking.
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jotheonah

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Re: Bread and Circuses: A New Semi-Open Setup for 14 Players
« Reply #40 on: March 07, 2019, 12:53:43 pm »

Wait, I guess not, since they have to target the same person as mafia. And if the other bodyguard can see their breadcrumbs, the mafia can too.
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UmbrageOfSnow

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Re: Bread and Circuses: A New Semi-Open Setup for 14 Players
« Reply #41 on: March 07, 2019, 12:58:45 pm »

How bad is it if the bodyguards manage to work out right away a way to coordinate their targets? That seems potentially game-breaking.
Well they can only protect kill once, which makes it better. But yeah that threat can force scum to bg hunt or pick weird kills. Makes it more likely an iC makes it to LYLO but playing around with it seems like a bg is likely to die early. I don't believe it to be broken, been tweaking the setup all week but I don't mind more tweaks, and I am also looking forward to post-game post-mortem about the setup. 50-50 whether or not the are 2 bg at all, remember.
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