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Author Topic: Glossary Update  (Read 1951 times)

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Jeebus

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Re: Glossary Update
« Reply #25 on: March 22, 2019, 12:38:06 pm »
+1

Stop Card: A card that does not draw any more cards from your deck, like Giant or Gold. If Actions are limited, this may or may not include terminal draw.   

I don't understand the last sentence. Can Smithy be a stop card?

Polk5440

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Re: Glossary Update
« Reply #26 on: March 22, 2019, 09:23:36 pm »
+2

Stop Card: A card that does not draw any more cards from your deck, like Giant or Gold. If Actions are limited, this may or may not include terminal draw.   

I don't understand the last sentence. Can Smithy be a stop card?

Probably not based on the first sentence of the definition, as written, because Smithy draws 3 cards. So I see why that's confusing. It can be like a stop card if you expect to draw and play many more cards, but you have only one action left, so playing Smithy would end your Action phase. If you have Actions to spend, this is a non-issue and Smithy is not a stop card in any sense.

As the glossary is going for simplicity, how about just striking the second sentence completely?
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J Reggie

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Re: Glossary Update
« Reply #27 on: March 23, 2019, 06:59:21 am »
+2

If you have 0 actions left, Smithy is a stop card (aside from edge cases like Villa or Scepter).

Jeebus

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Re: Glossary Update
« Reply #28 on: March 23, 2019, 10:16:24 am »
+3

If you have 0 actions left, Smithy is a stop card (aside from edge cases like Villa or Scepter).
I would then instead say that Smithy is a dead card, like an Estate or a Curse, because you can't play it. I understand stop cards as cards that don't draw upon playing them.

hhelibebcnofnena

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Re: Glossary Update
« Reply #29 on: March 23, 2019, 08:26:16 pm »
+2

If you have 0 actions left, Smithy is a stop card (aside from edge cases like Villa or Scepter).

Or villagers, which I wouldn't consider an edge case.
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Awaclus

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Re: Glossary Update
« Reply #30 on: March 23, 2019, 10:18:10 pm »
+2

If you have 0 actions left, Smithy is a stop card (aside from edge cases like Villa or Scepter).
I would then instead say that Smithy is a dead card, like an Estate or a Curse, because you can't play it. I understand stop cards as cards that don't draw upon playing them.

Dead cards are stop cards.
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Re: Glossary Update
« Reply #31 on: March 24, 2019, 01:19:19 am »
+2

Hmm, how about "milling Provinces" (not to be confused with the card Mill), in the sense of 'using a remodeler to trash and gain Provinces to run down the pile before your opponent can catch up'?
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Re: Glossary Update
« Reply #32 on: March 24, 2019, 01:57:44 am »
+1

For your pseudotrashing entry, you might want to clarify that Island sets the cards aside indefinitely. Otherwise, it sounds like everything that sets something aside is pseudotrashing, which is not what I understand the term to mean
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Awaclus

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Re: Glossary Update
« Reply #33 on: March 24, 2019, 06:14:56 am »
+1

For your pseudotrashing entry, you might want to clarify that Island sets the cards aside indefinitely. Otherwise, it sounds like everything that sets something aside is pseudotrashing, which is not what I understand the term to mean

Two Havens can pseudotrash one card.
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Doom_Shark

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Re: Glossary Update
« Reply #34 on: March 24, 2019, 03:42:08 pm »
+1

For your pseudotrashing entry, you might want to clarify that Island sets the cards aside indefinitely. Otherwise, it sounds like everything that sets something aside is pseudotrashing, which is not what I understand the term to mean

Two Havens can pseudotrash one card.

Assuming you draw one of them each turn, and never play them both on the same turn. Does Summon pseudotrash? No, duh. But it still sets things aside.
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Re: Glossary Update
« Reply #35 on: March 24, 2019, 06:09:09 pm »
+4

For your pseudotrashing entry, you might want to clarify that Island sets the cards aside indefinitely. Otherwise, it sounds like everything that sets something aside is pseudotrashing, which is not what I understand the term to mean

Two Havens can pseudotrash one card.

Assuming you draw one of them each turn, and never play them both on the same turn. Does Summon pseudotrash? No, duh. But it still sets things aside.

Psuedotrashing definitely includes things like Archive and Crypt which have the effect of making your deck thinner than it would be. Summon is a completely irrelevant example.
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Re: Glossary Update
« Reply #36 on: March 24, 2019, 06:30:10 pm »
+2

Assuming you draw one of them each turn, and never play them both on the same turn. Does Summon pseudotrash? No, duh. But it still sets things aside.

Summon doesn't pseudotrash because it takes a card from the supply and sets it aside. That's the equivalent of saying Lurker is thinning.
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Re: Glossary Update
« Reply #37 on: March 24, 2019, 11:06:07 pm »
+1

Would Festival be a stop card, since it doesn't draw? Necro variants usually help keep your engine going, but they can actually stop it, too, so the definition might be trickier than just "anything that doesn't draw".

And while we're talking about this, I feel that payload is a common term that should be included here. The way I see it, "payload" is what your engine is actually delivering (so, cards that don't draw or give +Actions. The few cards like Forager that don't draw and give a single +1 Action also arguably count since they behave like Treasures.) while "stop card" is the combined categories of "payload" and "dead card", so it doesn't include any Villages either.
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AJD

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Re: Glossary Update
« Reply #38 on: March 25, 2019, 12:10:40 am »
+2

Festival is definitely a stop card.

I don't think payload is limited to stop cards, though. Grand Market is definitely payload, for example.
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werothegreat

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Re: Glossary Update
« Reply #39 on: March 25, 2019, 10:57:21 am »
+1

Can't we just point people to the wiki entries for all of these?
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Re: Glossary Update
« Reply #40 on: March 26, 2019, 12:24:42 am »
+1

Summon doesn't pseudotrash because it takes a card from the supply and sets it aside. That's the equivalent of saying Lurker is thinning.

Summon is a completely irrelevant example.

I was connecting that back to my initial complaint, which was that the example sounded like it was saying anything that sets something aside pseoudotrashes. I was not trying to argue that Summon pseudotrashes, I was using it as a ludicrous example for why the example should be reworded. Now, I will concede that I misunderstood what people mean by peseudotrashing. I now believe, however, that Island should not be the example at all because while Island is the most extreme case of pseudotrashing, it is also by far the least common execution.
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Polk5440

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Re: Glossary Update
« Reply #41 on: March 26, 2019, 11:04:26 am »
0

Can't we just point people to the wiki entries for all of these?

The glossary is meant to be a quick reference for terms used a lot in the blog posts on the front page using one-two sentence summary definitions that gets people most of the way there in understanding what the word/term means.

If this goal is not successful for certain words/terms, then yes, wiki is better. (And then people can edit/add to the wiki.)
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Polk5440

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Re: Glossary Update
« Reply #42 on: March 26, 2019, 11:16:29 am »
0

Stop Card: A card that does not draw any more cards from your deck, like Giant or Gold.

Striking the second sentence, I feel like this does get most of the way there and is not misleading. I am still open to other wordings, as this seems to have more gaps than other definitions. Also open to removal, if this entry is just not as helpful.

Pseudo-Trash:  Remove cards from your deck without trashing them. For example, Island sets aside cards.

I am happy with this definition and example, but if people are confused by it or don't see the benefit of including it, I can remove it. It's on the bubble for me. There are now lots of cards that can pseudo-trash, which is why I thought it was worth including. Island, Native Village, Archive, Haven, Annex, etc. can pseudo-trash other cards. Reserve cards can pseudo-trash themselves.

Milling Provinces was also on the bubble, but the other side of it. AJD's proposed definition would also need the addition of remodeler so that's a two term requirement. Dud and payload: I didn't think a Dominion specific definition is any clearer than starting with the English dictionary definition of these words and then looking at context, so that's why I didn't include them. Open to inclusion if people can come up with helpful, simple definitions.
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Re: Glossary Update
« Reply #43 on: March 26, 2019, 01:39:13 pm »
0

I think the problem with "milling provinces" is I don't think there's an established, orthodox term for it that everyone uses.  I mean, for fuck's sake some people still say "splitter" instead of "village"
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Re: Glossary Update
« Reply #44 on: March 26, 2019, 02:03:58 pm »
+1

I mean, for fuck's sake some people still say "splitter" instead of "village"

That's because some people still refuse to call Summon a "village".
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Re: Glossary Update
« Reply #45 on: March 26, 2019, 07:44:06 pm »
0

I think the problem with "milling provinces" is I don't think there's an established, orthodox term for it that everyone uses.

What other term do people use for it though?
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Re: Glossary Update
« Reply #46 on: March 26, 2019, 08:52:50 pm »
+1

While it's pretty obvious to me what "milling" means in that context, personally the only two terms I've used are "depleting" and "churning". I'm not sure it's a common enough thing that I'd ever looked for a standard phrase, and I'm not sure any standard phrase for it needs to be in the glossary.
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Re: Glossary Update
« Reply #47 on: March 27, 2019, 01:02:17 pm »
+3

If the point to the glossary is to be able to tell what someone means, then "milling Provinces" contributes, it's a thing people actually say.

It comes from Magic, where "milling" is commonly used to refer to putting cards from a deck directly into the discard pile. It goes back to the card Millstone.
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GendoIkari

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Re: Glossary Update
« Reply #48 on: March 27, 2019, 05:40:37 pm »
+3

So you're telling me that people aren't talking about discarding 2 Provinces to get + after playing a Mill?
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