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crlundy

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The Dominion Cards Lists 2018 Edition: Projects
« on: February 25, 2019, 07:20:30 pm »
+9

How exciting, I get to introduce a new list! These are the Projects. They are shiny and new, and everyone usually always buys whichever ones are on the table, or uh the screen. Turns out thatís not a bad move; over half the Projects received a vote for first, so they're all pretty good. This speaks to the balance of Renaissance, and also to the strength of Projects. There's no previous year's ranking to compare this to, but I'll still say some things from up on this here soapbox (no puns this time, I promise).

#20 Road Network   Weighted Average: 12.58% / Unweighted Average: 16.67% / Median: 5.26% / Standard Deviation: 23.19%

Many donít see the value of Road Network. To them I say, play some 4-player games. Something has to be last, though.
#19 Exploration   Weighted Average: 16.43% / Unweighted Average: 18.00% / Median: 10.53% / Standard Deviation: 22.91%

We're comparing different costs here, so one of the main things to note is, can I open this? And with Exploration you can, but that won't usually be great. Hermit and Mission do a lot to make not buying cards worth your while; Exploration is currently regarded as Bathsy. It needs combos to truly shine, which makes it a bit narrow, and narrow things don't rank highly here.

I do believe Exploration to be high-skill, and expect it to move up the ranks with time.
#18 City Gate   Weighted Average: 29.39% / Unweighted Average: 33.89% / Median: 26.32% / Standard Deviation: 26.32%

Another Project you can open, but probably shouldn't. Sometimes City Gate is key to kicking off your turn, but often your engine is already working anyway. And if you don't have an engine, would a Silver have been more useful? Once you've bought City Gate, it can be hard to say whether your game would have played more or less the same without it.
#17 Crop Rotation   Weighted Average: 32.37% / Unweighted Average: 38.75% / Median: 31.58% / Standard Deviation: 24.55%

These next two Projects help you plow through your starting cards. I think that's a large part of why they're ranked low: ideally you're trashing those starting cards. Projects are a steal because you pay once and get the benefit every turn, instead of cards you only use once per shuffle (not now, Scheme). The problem here is that $6 isn't really a steal.
#16 Silos   Weighted Average: 34.73% / Unweighted Average: 33.69% / Median: 26.32% / Standard Deviation: 25.55%

I reason that this ranks higher than Crop Rotation becaue it's cheaper, and because you can Cellar any number of Coppers (as opposed to Shepherding only one Victory card). You're ideally trashing your Coppers, so Silos is maybe a bit narrow? It's not like Silos is bad, but something has to be 16th.
#15 Barracks   Weighted Average: 37.30% / Unweighted Average: 42.54% / Median: 47.37% / Standard Deviation: 23.19%

That lonely man is ruing his lot in life: I should have stayed in school, those guys at the Academy know way more about Actions than me. It's a village that starts working soon as you buy it, that can be nice. But by the time you get to buying Barracks, you likely already have villages. Plus some turns you didn't need the extra Action, some turns you needed 2 extra Actions, and well have I mentioned Academy yet?
#14 Fair   Weighted Average: 40.09% / Unweighted Average: 41.39% / Median: 36.84% / Standard Deviation: 20.73%

Sometimes you just really need an extra Buy. Fair's got you covered.
#13 Guildhall   Weighted Average: 42.51% / Unweighted Average: 41.58% / Median: 36.84% / Standard Deviation: 27.63%

How often do you want a deck of Treasures? *Puts out Guildhall.* How about now?

It paints a silver lining around opponents' Mountebanks, and gives a buff to Treasure-gaineres. But usually you have to already want those cards, you're not building a Bureaucrat deck just because Guildhall is around.
#12 Pageant   Weighted Average: 44.32% / Unweighted Average: 44.30% / Median: 42.11% / Standard Deviation: 24.62%

The dream of having an overpay-for-Coffers card lives through in this. Opening Pageant sounds promising, but apparently the gameplay stats are showing it is largely a trap. It's also not every day you see Ryan Laukat commissioned for something that's not a Treasure. There are a lot of days, you see.
#11 Piazza   Weighted Average: 44.39% / Unweighted Average: 42.28% / Median: 36.84% / Standard Deviation: 25.08%

You buy Herald plenty, and Piazza wants to get in on the fun. You can debate in the comments how justified the comparison is. We want there to be discussion on these forums, and I'm here for you.

Guildhall was above Piazza in the List of Best $5 Cards.
#10 Canal   Weighted Average: 45.73% / Unweighted Average: 49.24% / Median: 47.37% / Standard Deviation: 26.65%

Kicking off the top 10 is Canal. You can make whatever comparisons to Highway or the Key. But you can't really go wrong with Canal, except maybe trash for benefit.
#9 Innovation   Weighted Average: 56.98% / Unweighted Average: 57.78% / Median: 63.16% / Standard Deviation: 24.30%

The weighted average for Innovation is a jump up from Canal, so we're in a new tier here. A Projects ranking by the Discord community had Innovation 4 places higher, the biggest difference between that list and this one. I dunno, seemed worth noting. The $6 cost means you can't just pick it up willy nilly, and recognizing when it's good is what separates the wheat from the chaff.
#8 Fleet   Weighted Average: 58.73% / Unweighted Average: 55.26% / Median: 57.89% / Standard Deviation: 26.76%

The artwork is very ominous. At worst, Fleet is a delayed Duchy (a pretty high floor). At best, it defends against 3-piling. And maybe some other things, I personally still get psyched out by Fleet games, but I think you usually always buy it?
#7 Capitalism   Weighted Average: 59.04% / Unweighted Average: 60.18% / Median: 57.89% / Standard Deviation: 17.65%

Capitalism is by far the most exotic Project. Some boards it might do absolutely nothing; it doesnít have a setup clause to ensure Actions with +$ amounts are around. But when itís good, itís good. Really good. Still, I suspect this one to fall a rank or two as the hype wears off, and its niche-ness settles in.

Fleet and Capitalism were swapped in the List of Best $5 Cards, so are essentially neck and neck.
#6 Citadel   Weighted Average: 59.50% / Unweighted Average: 63.52% / Median: 63.16% / Standard Deviation: 23.54%

For those keeping count, the top 5 Projects after this are all ones that you could open. One might infer from that that the best Projects are ones you get the most turns with. But thatís not for me to say. Anyway, before those we have Citadel. You canít (usually) open it. Despite that, itís #6, which means its effect is pretty sweet. Spiking is important here, like with Inheritance. Itís not a Princed Throne Room; make sure the first Action you play each turn gives +1 Action.
#5 Sewers   Weighted Average: 71.39% / Unweighted Average: 69.96% / Median: 78.95% / Standard Deviation: 24.59%

Without another trasher around, Sewers does nothing. Fortunately Renaissance comes with plenty of trashing. So, when there is trashing around, Sewers doubles it. It pairs nicely with trashers that are restricted to what they can trash or where they can trash from.
#4 Academy   Weighted Average: 72.00% / Unweighted Average: 68.77% / Median: 78.95% / Standard Deviation: 24.38%

It looks so innocent, but man. Academy can be bonkers, almost letting you entirely skip other villages (I said almost, OK). Probably don't open it on $5/$2, but don't wait too long. It also makes you think twice about Maraudering or Cultisting.
#3 Sinister Plot   Weighted Average: 75.74% / Unweighted Average: 70.58% / Median: 78.95% / Standard Deviation: 24.07%

What is so sinister about this plot? It seems very above board to me. Even if you're using it as an every-other-turn-Flag, that's not bad for $4. The time-value-of-Projects principle very much applies here: the sooner you buy it, the more time you have to benefit from it.

The top 3 Projects together received 75% of the first place votes.
#2 Star Chart   Weighted Average: 80.97% / Unweighted Average: 73.24% / Median: 89.47% / Standard Deviation: 28.35%

If you don't yet think this deserves do be this high, just try buying it. And don't forget IRL to topdeck something.
#1 Cathedral   Weighted Average: 85.73% / Unweighted Average: 77.90% / Median: 94.74% / Standard Deviation: 32.27%

Unsurprisingly, Cathedral sits on top (bottom?) of these rankings. It received by far the most votes for first, 15 of them (there were 31 voters). It's basically the Donate Project; what else is there to say that we donít already know? Trashing is great, and a one-time investment in this gets you trashing every turn for the rest of the game, buyer beware. It has its pitfalls of course; we've all been burned by Cathedral. Watch out for their Militias and your Alchemists.

That's all for the Projects, check back tomorrow for the grand finale: Boons and Hexes.
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crj

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Re: The Dominion Cards Lists 2018 Edition: Projects
« Reply #1 on: February 25, 2019, 09:50:10 pm »
+1

Citadel
[...]
Itís not a Princed Throne Room; make sure the first Action you play each turn gives +1 Action.
Is that really true in Renaissance-land, though? Start by doubling a terminal draw, then use a Villager to continue your Action Phase, replenishing your Villager supply before next turn?
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nasmith99

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Re: The Dominion Cards Lists 2018 Edition: Projects
« Reply #2 on: February 25, 2019, 10:34:12 pm »
+1

Sinister Plot seems out of place; I see Cathedral, Star Chart, Sewers, and Academy as a tier above the rest, probably in that order.

I think City Gate is probably the worst; as soon as you start putting cantrips in your deck it is irrelevant and likely only gives any significant benefit to money decks (not that you necessarily skip City Gate otherwise). Unlike Guildhall, this benefit is small enough that City Gate's presence on the board makes you want to play money when you otherwise wouldn't.

I also think Innovation is a bit underrated. Like Capitalism, it is highly board-dependent, but it has been very strong on most of the boards I've seen it on. It's possible I've just drawn an unrepresentative sample of kingdoms, but Innovation has a ton of tricks and I expect it to rise in the future.
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Cave-o-sapien

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Re: The Dominion Cards Lists 2018 Edition: Projects
« Reply #3 on: February 26, 2019, 01:31:36 am »
+1

I like Plot where it is. It's incredibly flexible Duration draw. I see people let it build up too much though. You can't take those tokens with you, so use them more frequently!
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Dingan

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Re: The Dominion Cards Lists 2018 Edition: Projects
« Reply #4 on: February 26, 2019, 01:54:13 am »
0

I am still scared of Cathedral. I feel there are certain games where it is a must-open, but certain games where it is ignorable -- games with other reliable trashing, games that go on for a long time, games with hand-size-reduction attacks. Whereas the other top-tier Projects leave your deck in a strictly better state than they would without the Project.
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markusin

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Re: The Dominion Cards Lists 2018 Edition: Projects
« Reply #5 on: February 26, 2019, 11:26:46 am »
0

I am still scared of Cathedral. I feel there are certain games where it is a must-open, but certain games where it is ignorable -- games with other reliable trashing, games that go on for a long time, games with hand-size-reduction attacks. Whereas the other top-tier Projects leave your deck in a strictly better state than they would without the Project.

That's mainly why I have Star Chart above Cathedral.
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Awaclus

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Re: The Dominion Cards Lists 2018 Edition: Projects
« Reply #6 on: February 26, 2019, 01:49:39 pm »
0

I am still scared of Cathedral. I feel there are certain games where it is a must-open, but certain games where it is ignorable -- games with other reliable trashing, games that go on for a long time, games with hand-size-reduction attacks. Whereas the other top-tier Projects leave your deck in a strictly better state than they would without the Project.

The only other trashing that would make me consider skipping Cathedral is Donate, and I don't think games go on for a long time with Cathedral in them.
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Bomb, Cannon, and many of the Gunpowder cards can strongly effect gameplay, particularly in a destructive way

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crlundy

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Re: The Dominion Cards Lists 2018 Edition: Projects
« Reply #7 on: February 26, 2019, 01:50:39 pm »
0

Citadel
[...]
Itís not a Princed Throne Room; make sure the first Action you play each turn gives +1 Action.
Is that really true in Renaissance-land, though? Start by doubling a terminal draw, then use a Villager to continue your Action Phase, replenishing your Villager supply before next turn?

It was just meant as a word of caution for those who may not have seen that interaction coming. There are certainly other solutions to the problem: Villagers, Fishing Village, Champion, even a Princed Throne.

I am still scared of Cathedral. I feel there are certain games where it is a must-open, but certain games where it is ignorable -- games with other reliable trashing, games that go on for a long time, games with hand-size-reduction attacks. Whereas the other top-tier Projects leave your deck in a strictly better state than they would without the Project.

If Cathedral is around, why is the game going on for a long time? It wasn't intuitive to me at first, but buying Cathedral is very often good, even if the board doesn't seem to be screaming Cathedral.
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aku_chi

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Re: The Dominion Cards Lists 2018 Edition: Projects
« Reply #8 on: February 26, 2019, 01:57:06 pm »
0

I am still scared of Cathedral. I feel there are certain games where it is a must-open, but certain games where it is ignorable -- games with other reliable trashing, games that go on for a long time, games with hand-size-reduction attacks. Whereas the other top-tier Projects leave your deck in a strictly better state than they would without the Project.

The only other trashing that would make me consider skipping Cathedral is Donate, and I don't think games go on for a long time with Cathedral in them.

Urchin is an excellent reason to skip Cathedral.  If there's a handsize attack and strong alternative trashing, Cathedral is dubious.  Urchin and Catapult provide both in one card, and there are other kingdoms that might have both through a combination of cards.
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Awaclus

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Re: The Dominion Cards Lists 2018 Edition: Projects
« Reply #9 on: February 26, 2019, 02:03:41 pm »
0

I am still scared of Cathedral. I feel there are certain games where it is a must-open, but certain games where it is ignorable -- games with other reliable trashing, games that go on for a long time, games with hand-size-reduction attacks. Whereas the other top-tier Projects leave your deck in a strictly better state than they would without the Project.

The only other trashing that would make me consider skipping Cathedral is Donate, and I don't think games go on for a long time with Cathedral in them.

Urchin is an excellent reason to skip Cathedral.  If there's a handsize attack and strong alternative trashing, Cathedral is dubious.  Urchin and Catapult provide both in one card, and there are other kingdoms that might have both through a combination of cards.

Sure, but that's because they're handsize attacks specifically, not just any "other reliable trashing".
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Bomb, Cannon, and many of the Gunpowder cards can strongly effect gameplay, particularly in a destructive way

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ipofanes

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Re: The Dominion Cards Lists 2018 Edition: Projects
« Reply #10 on: February 27, 2019, 03:12:16 am »
+1

Yesterday I got matched with an opponent who, upon seeing the kingdom, pledged for not using Star Chart because it would slow down the game too much. I couldn't make heads or tails out of this and opened Star Chart anyway, causing him to resign immediately. I do think that he meant that every shuffle procedure takes longer. The number of rounds should be accelerated by Star Chart.
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markus

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Re: The Dominion Cards Lists 2018 Edition: Projects
« Reply #11 on: February 27, 2019, 04:04:53 am »
0

Yesterday I got matched with an opponent who, upon seeing the kingdom, pledged for not using Star Chart because it would slow down the game too much. I couldn't make heads or tails out of this and opened Star Chart anyway, causing him to resign immediately. I do think that he meant that every shuffle procedure takes longer. The number of rounds should be accelerated by Star Chart.
For the record, I was not that player.  8)

Turn numbers slightly decreases with Star Chart (but that's not significant). I suppose that getting faster to the attacks cancels out with getting faster to whatever cards speed up your deck building.

On average there are 9 shuffles in which each player may choose a card.

Ceterum censeo, I still find it annoying that you can see all but the remaining cards in the deck that you are about to draw.
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