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Author Topic: Houseruling Caravan Guard  (Read 480 times)

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Kingsfoil

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Houseruling Caravan Guard
« on: February 25, 2019, 12:28:46 pm »
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Less of a question than a comment:
I was a bit confused by Caravan Guard, wondering what it actually DID as a reaction. Does it also block or cancel the attack? Is that assumed in the "Reaction" card type? Turns out it does exactly what it says - nothing (nothing much). And the articles here agree, it's a weak card and rarely chosen, unless you just need a card and it's the only cantrip available.

We've houseruled it to get it back in the game, and it doesn't even require any wording changes - We resolve the "+1 card" AFTER the attack is resolved rather than before, when played as a reaction.

This means that the Caravan Guard provides immunity to attacks based on a 5 card handsize (Pillage), as you get to drop your hand to 4 before resolving the attack but don't draw until after. It also provides complete immunity against Urchin and a consolation prize against "discard down to" attacks like Militia or Legionary. Against Sea Hag you still get the curse but don't get the dead draw, and it reverses the Bureaucrat attack.

What does this mean? It's still not great, as it doesn't cancel the attack like Moat. But it makes up for it with the +1 action, making it a generally better card in your deck. It's still situational and not the best reaction, but it gets you more than nothing. It's not a powerhouse, but it is now a card that I at least find interesting when it's in the kingdom.

For your consideration.

Also for consideration - an interesting duration card would be one that allows you to draw a card after each attack played/resolved against you. That would provide another layer of interaction where players are considering the cost/benefit of playing any attack on their turn.
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Awaclus

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Re: Houseruling Caravan Guard
« Reply #1 on: February 25, 2019, 12:51:12 pm »
+2

Caravan Guard is an okay card. What the Reaction does is that it lets you get the benefit a turn earlier which is useful because of inflation and it stops the card from being stuck in play and not getting reshuffled in for two of your own turns.
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Donald X.

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Re: Houseruling Caravan Guard
« Reply #2 on: February 25, 2019, 12:51:32 pm »
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Also for consideration - an interesting duration card would be one that allows you to draw a card after each attack played/resolved against you. That would provide another layer of interaction where players are considering the cost/benefit of playing any attack on their turn.
This is the rules questions subforum; you are looking for the variants subforum, the only place homemade cards should go. Wait I think I can move your thread.

"Draw a card per attack played against you" goes back to the early days of the game. It has scaling issues. They were resolved by only having it work once, which is Horse Traders.
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Chris is me

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Re: Houseruling Caravan Guard
« Reply #3 on: February 25, 2019, 01:43:06 pm »
+2

Two things the original Caravan Guard does:

1. It's a cantrip that lets you "check" what card it was going to draw before a discard attack hits. The problem with cantrips in those games, especially vanilla ones that don't do a lot like Caravan Guard, is that you have to make your discard decision without knowing what they will draw for you. Caravan Guard bypasses that by letting you know now.

2. You get the beneficial effect (Coin) a turn sooner as many have noted.

It's not super strong but I don't think it needs to be stronger.
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segura

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Re: Houseruling Caravan Guard
« Reply #4 on: February 25, 2019, 02:49:22 pm »
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Caravan Guard is fine as it is. I'd even argue that it is on average better than the other $3 Peddler variant, Oasis. Giving it this weird Horse Trader like extra thingy against handsize attacks probably makes it too good.
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Kingsfoil

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Re: Houseruling Caravan Guard
« Reply #5 on: February 25, 2019, 03:49:24 pm »
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which is Horse Traders.

Yes - there it is. I've never played Cornucopia before, but it looks like these idea trails are already well worn. Thanks for pointing me in the right direction.
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NoMoreFun

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Re: Houseruling Caravan Guard
« Reply #6 on: February 28, 2019, 12:37:47 am »
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I think it could have been an effect that more elegantly worked in the face of attacks.

Something like delayed versions of Throne Room or Moneylender or Mine would at least leave you with a 3 card hand and make you immune to Militia et al.


« Last Edit: February 28, 2019, 07:46:53 am by NoMoreFun »
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ipofanes

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Re: Houseruling Caravan Guard
« Reply #7 on: February 28, 2019, 07:16:23 am »
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Giving it this weird Horse Trader like extra thingy against handsize attacks probably makes it too good.

It's not only handsize attack, it's every attack including Torturer with an empty curse stack, Enchantress dodged by CG before he turns into a pig, Minion played for the coin etc. That being said, turning a delayed Peddler into an instant Peddler is a mild benefit you get.
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Re: Houseruling Caravan Guard
« Reply #8 on: February 28, 2019, 07:29:45 am »
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Giving it this weird Horse Trader like extra thingy against handsize attacks probably makes it too good.

It's not only handsize attack, it's every attack including Torturer with an empty curse stack, Enchantress dodged by CG before he turns into a pig, Minion played for the coin etc. That being said, turning a delayed Peddler into an instant Peddler is a mild benefit you get.
Indeed, a Laboratory as a Reaction effect is incredibly strong which is why that very Reaction is attached to Horse Trader, a fairly weak terminal, instead of a decent cantrip.
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ipofanes

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Re: Houseruling Caravan Guard
« Reply #9 on: February 28, 2019, 08:17:14 am »
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It's not as if Horse Traders could not stand on their own. As noted in the classic Horse Traders/Duchy combo article, it's fine for spiking $5 if $5 is all the spike you need (maybe in an I'll-Gotten Gains rush or with crucial $5 cards). They combine buy and money and shine with draw-to-x. In draw-your-deck situations, they can ascertain you redraw the cards discarded (for Will of the Wisp, Patrician, Seer, or Scrying Pool). You would not spam them with impunity like you would spam Caravan Guards, but they are not to be ignored in many kingdoms even without attack.
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Re: Houseruling Caravan Guard
« Reply #10 on: February 28, 2019, 08:22:39 am »
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I don't want to trash-talk Horse Traders but without the Reaction it would probably be a $3. There are much smoother (read, non-terminal) discard-for-benefit cards and if you want the extra Buy you'd often prefer a Woodcutter.
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ipofanes

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Re: Houseruling Caravan Guard
« Reply #11 on: March 01, 2019, 05:32:10 am »
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Yes, I think you could get away with $3 as you wouldn't want to open with two of them.
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