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Author Topic: Donald X.'s Guide to 12 Dominion Expansions Discussion Thread  (Read 867 times)

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GendoIkari

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Donald X.'s Guide to 12 Dominion Expansions Discussion Thread
« on: February 18, 2019, 01:57:22 pm »
+2

Original thread.

One thing that stands out to me is that Donald doesn't mention Duration cards in regards to Empires, Nocturne, or Renaissance. I guess the idea was that Adventure's "Duration cards return" was meant as "starting with Adventures, Duration cards became part of every set". But that's not clear; if I didn't know otherwise, I would have thought that Durations only existed in Seaside and Adventures.

Anyway, even though I mostly only ever played full random, thus don't think too much about which cards are even part of which sets, I agree with the "someone else" that Seaside and Prosperity are my favorites.
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JW

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Re: Donald X.'s Guide to 12 Dominion Expansions Discussion Thread
« Reply #1 on: February 18, 2019, 02:12:02 pm »
+2

Kudos to Donald for posting this. That said, Donald seems not favorable enough to Renaissance and too favorable to Nocturne. Renaissance sets a new standard in terms of adding a lot to the game without as much complexity as some other recent sets. For the high degree of complexity, Nocturne does not add as much to the game as the other recent sets (and the card pool isn’t as favorable to decks that draw cards, that is, what I and many others perceive as the most fun decks) as other recent sets).
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Awaclus

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Re: Donald X.'s Guide to 12 Dominion Expansions Discussion Thread
« Reply #2 on: February 18, 2019, 02:58:32 pm »
0

I agree that the guide overrates Nocturne, and I think it also overrates Prosperity. It has Counting House, Contraband and Royal Seal, plus a relatively high number of cards that are only very rarely useful and/or still not very strong when they get bought like Hoard and Talisman.
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Donald X.

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Re: Donald X.'s Guide to 12 Dominion Expansions Discussion Thread
« Reply #3 on: February 18, 2019, 03:02:31 pm »
0

One thing that stands out to me is that Donald doesn't mention Duration cards in regards to Empires, Nocturne, or Renaissance. I guess the idea was that Adventure's "Duration cards return" was meant as "starting with Adventures, Duration cards became part of every set". But that's not clear; if I didn't know otherwise, I would have thought that Durations only existed in Seaside and Adventures.
"They finally came back in Adventures, and the later sets each have a few Duration cards." I guess it doesn't mention that Nocturne is especially heavy in them.
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Donald X.

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Re: Donald X.'s Guide to 12 Dominion Expansions Discussion Thread
« Reply #4 on: February 18, 2019, 03:05:19 pm »
+3

Kudos to Donald for posting this. That said, Donald seems not favorable enough to Renaissance and too favorable to Nocturne. Renaissance sets a new standard in terms of adding a lot to the game without as much complexity as some other recent sets. For the high degree of complexity, Nocturne does not add as much to the game as the other recent sets (and the card pool isn’t as favorable to decks that draw cards, that is, what I and many others perceive as the most fun decks) as other recent sets).
I was trying not to say "this is the best one, as if my opinion is the one to listen to" outside of that one section on the best sets, which lists both Renaissance and Nocturne and I mean I think they both belong there.

I did not put Prosperity on that list, or in the runners-up list in that section, so, I don't see how I overrated it (@Awaclus).
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Awaclus

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Re: Donald X.'s Guide to 12 Dominion Expansions Discussion Thread
« Reply #5 on: February 18, 2019, 03:14:36 pm »
0

I did not put Prosperity on that list, or in the runners-up list in that section, so, I don't see how I overrated it (@Awaclus).

You didn't necessarily, but the "someone else" section does and it's in the guide.
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Donald X.

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Re: Donald X.'s Guide to 12 Dominion Expansions Discussion Thread
« Reply #6 on: February 18, 2019, 03:17:55 pm »
+3

You didn't necessarily, but the "someone else" section does and it's in the guide.
Yes; other people overrate Prosperity, and that's what that section is about, what other people say.
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Gherald

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Re: Donald X.'s Guide to 12 Dominion Expansions Discussion Thread
« Reply #7 on: February 19, 2019, 05:15:24 am »
+1

Prosperity has some dud cards, yes, but if you're going to own several expansions (i.e. more than 2) it's pretty much a must-have for the Colonies.

So, okay, everyone has their #1 and #2 and maybe even a #3 favored set that's not Prosperity, but if Prosperity isn't your next pick to toss in the mix....well, let's just say you're in the minority.
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Chappy7

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Re: Donald X.'s Guide to 12 Dominion Expansions Discussion Thread
« Reply #8 on: February 19, 2019, 11:39:47 am »
0

Prosperity has some dud cards, yes, but if you're going to own several expansions (i.e. more than 2) it's pretty much a must-have for the Colonies.

So, okay, everyone has their #1 and #2 and maybe even a #3 favored set that's not Prosperity, but if Prosperity isn't your next pick to toss in the mix....well, let's just say you're in the minority.

Prosperity is definitely in my bottom 3 favorite sets.  Probably bottom 2 right after Alchemy.  I bought the base cards, which comes with Platinum and Colony, and that's all.  I own almost all of the other expansions but I don't think I'm ever going to buy Prosperity. 
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LastFootnote

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Re: Donald X.'s Guide to 12 Dominion Expansions Discussion Thread
« Reply #9 on: February 19, 2019, 12:19:09 pm »
0

That said, Donald seems not favorable enough to Renaissance and too favorable to Nocturne. Renaissance sets a new standard in terms of adding a lot to the game without as much complexity as some other recent sets. For the high degree of complexity, Nocturne does not add as much to the game as the other recent sets (and the card pool isn’t as favorable to decks that draw cards, that is, what I and many others perceive as the most fun decks) as other recent sets).

I think that for the history of Dominion releases, every new (full-sized) set has become my favorite. That streak stopped with Renaissance. Nocturne remains top of the heap for me, having a lot of the most interesting and flavorful cards in the game. Renaissance is still a very good expansion, but I don't find it as exciting as…oh probably any of the last three sets.

Which is to say, everybody is entitled to their own opinion.
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Re: Donald X.'s Guide to 12 Dominion Expansions Discussion Thread
« Reply #10 on: February 19, 2019, 02:09:01 pm »
0

I think that for the history of Dominion releases, every new (full-sized) set has become my favorite. That streak stopped with Renaissance. Nocturne remains top of the heap for me, having a lot of the most interesting and flavorful cards in the game. Renaissance is still a very good expansion, but I don't find it as exciting as…oh probably any of the last three sets.

Which is to say, everybody is entitled to their own opinion.

Yes, but Nocturne has too many additional cards to read, in a way that can be overwhelming.

Thanks; we had a lot of fun playtesting Nocturne, but I would change it a lot at this point, which is not true of Adventures or Empires. I would probably split it into two sets, one with Night, Spirits, and Boons, and the other with Heirlooms and some other new mechanic. I wouldn't do Hexes (too slow). I would only do ~5 Fate cards.
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Re: Donald X.'s Guide to 12 Dominion Expansions Discussion Thread
« Reply #11 on: February 19, 2019, 02:16:43 pm »
+1

Prosperity has some dud cards, yes, but if you're going to own several expansions (i.e. more than 2) it's pretty much a must-have for the Colonies.

So, okay, everyone has their #1 and #2 and maybe even a #3 favored set that's not Prosperity, but if Prosperity isn't your next pick to toss in the mix....well, let's just say you're in the minority.
I have had Prosperity for awhile, and don't think the Colonies add as much as I originally expected.
« Last Edit: February 19, 2019, 02:20:13 pm by JoeBot »
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LastFootnote

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Re: Donald X.'s Guide to 12 Dominion Expansions Discussion Thread
« Reply #12 on: February 19, 2019, 02:34:30 pm »
0

Yes, but Nocturne has too many additional cards to read, in a way that can be overwhelming.

That is again just your opinion. It's Donald X.'s opinion too. That doesn't mean that Nocturne isn't my favorite expansion, though. I tend to enjoy those complex effects more, despite knowing that having simple cards is also important.

EDIT: To be very clear, I agree with Donald X. that Nocturne could be improved, and possibly split into two sets. It's still my favorite set, though.
« Last Edit: February 19, 2019, 02:36:17 pm by LastFootnote »
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Donald X.

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Re: Donald X.'s Guide to 12 Dominion Expansions Discussion Thread
« Reply #13 on: February 19, 2019, 02:55:50 pm »
+7

Yes, but Nocturne has too many additional cards to read, in a way that can be overwhelming.

That is again just your opinion. It's Donald X.'s opinion too. That doesn't mean that Nocturne isn't my favorite expansion, though. I tend to enjoy those complex effects more, despite knowing that having simple cards is also important.

EDIT: To be very clear, I agree with Donald X. that Nocturne could be improved, and possibly split into two sets. It's still my favorite set, though.
It was a lot of fun to playtest. As a product, the complexity was over the top, but for us it was great. It was a sad surprise at the release party to see how slowly people were resolving Hexes.

The Guide is trying to answer "what expansion should I get next," rather than be my opinions of the sets. For me at the time the sets just got better and better, except for Alchemy which was rushed, and Guilds getting moved to last because of Base Cards coming out. Then after the break, the new sets were even better - better polished and with more content. Since the main set and Intrigue got patched up, Intrigue has risen to be the best of the early sets, while Seaside is now the worst set after Alchemy, followed by Prosperity - those two sets that everyone recommends.

Empires and Renaissance I can recommend without reservations. Adventures is great, but I should have consolidated token types, had fewer different tokens. I'm sure that could have worked out, and then it would be great and with fewer tokens to paw through. Nocturne I should have split into two sets, and replaced Hexes with something else. It's loaded with fun cards, but it's a product, and could have been better for its audience.
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Re: Donald X.'s Guide to 12 Dominion Expansions Discussion Thread
« Reply #14 on: February 19, 2019, 03:56:54 pm »
0

In terms of flavor, I think Seaside should be on the list. I know several people who rate it as their favorite expansion (not having gotten anything since Guilds/Dark Ages probably) just because it's the set with the strongest flavor of all the earlier ones.

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Re: Donald X.'s Guide to 12 Dominion Expansions Discussion Thread
« Reply #15 on: February 19, 2019, 04:14:24 pm »
0

In terms if sets with "duds", I don't view any set as having many duds, except Alchemy, Hinterlands, and probably first edition base game.

Alchemy is pretty bad, 4 of the cards means that 33% are duds. I don't see Prosperity as being so bad; it has maybe 4 dud cards, but two of those are not awful (Trade Route and Royal Seal). Seaside has like 2 dud cards (plus a semi-dud in Pearl Diver). But I don't get why Hinterlands isn't mentioned more often. Hinterlands has 4 awful cards, plus a couple semi-duds.

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Re: Donald X.'s Guide to 12 Dominion Expansions Discussion Thread
« Reply #16 on: February 19, 2019, 04:42:08 pm »
+1

Yes, but Nocturne has too many additional cards to read, in a way that can be overwhelming.

That is again just your opinion. It's Donald X.'s opinion too. That doesn't mean that Nocturne isn't my favorite expansion, though. I tend to enjoy those complex effects more, despite knowing that having simple cards is also important.

EDIT: To be very clear, I agree with Donald X. that Nocturne could be improved, and possibly split into two sets. It's still my favorite set, though.
It was a lot of fun to playtest. As a product, the complexity was over the top, but for us it was great. It was a sad surprise at the release party to see how slowly people were resolving Hexes.

The Guide is trying to answer "what expansion should I get next," rather than be my opinions of the sets. For me at the time the sets just got better and better, except for Alchemy which was rushed, and Guilds getting moved to last because of Base Cards coming out. Then after the break, the new sets were even better - better polished and with more content. Since the main set and Intrigue got patched up, Intrigue has risen to be the best of the early sets, while Seaside is now the worst set after Alchemy, followed by Prosperity - those two sets that everyone recommends.

Empires and Renaissance I can recommend without reservations. Adventures is great, but I should have consolidated token types, had fewer different tokens. I'm sure that could have worked out, and then it would be great and with fewer tokens to paw through. Nocturne I should have split into two sets, and replaced Hexes with something else. It's loaded with fun cards, but it's a product, and could have been better for its audience.

Sure, I agree with all that. And when testing a set, I try to separate what I know is good for it from what I personally enjoy most. I'm glad Renaissance was received so well and it's clearly a success story. No regrets there. But for my own personal play, I enjoy Nocturne most.
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Re: Donald X.'s Guide to 12 Dominion Expansions Discussion Thread
« Reply #17 on: February 19, 2019, 08:02:22 pm »
0

As just one data point, for me Nocturne is the closest thing to a dud since Alchemy (which isn't to say Alchemy is entirely a dud, but...).

And it seems other people feel the same: in my play group it's not getting taken down from the shelf nearly as often as Adventures or Dark Ages. /-8
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