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Seprix

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The Dominion Cards Lists 2018 Edition: $3 Cards (Top Half)
« on: February 14, 2019, 04:24:08 pm »
+12

The Best Cards: Part 2

Part two in the best Dominion List this year.

#32 ▼2 Warehouse (Seaside) Weighted Average: 48.44% / Unweighted Average: 48.11% (32) / Median:52.38% / Standard Deviation: 19.53%

The most famous cycler besides maybe Cellar, Warehouse is a decent utility card that helps a deck find cards. Warehouse is somewhat similar to Oasis in that itís a fine opener but usually itís not a good idea to have tons of them in a deck.
#31 Cargo Ship (Renaissance) Weighted Average: 53.7% / Unweighted Average: 54.25% (30) / Median:47.92% / Standard Deviation: 20.13%
 
One of the new cards, Cargo Ship is a fantastic card that should be opened often. If Cargo Ship is drawn on Turn 3 and $5 is hit, the opponent is straight up already in a massive hole. In a lot of ways Cargo Ship is like Gear in that it rewards deck tracking. Need a village next turn? Cargo Ship has you covered. Need to hit Inheritance? No problem. Cargo Ship is a versatile card that will have utility in most decks, especially at the start.
#30 ▲2 Market Square (Dark Ages) Weighted Average: 53.99% / Unweighted Average: 55.43% (29) / Median:58.73% / Standard Deviation: 20.32%

A good source of cheap buy, Market Square lends itself well to pile control. In addition, the Gold reaction is a versatile ability, working well with the bountiful amounts of buy. Sometimes itís so convenient to get Golds that itís easy to forget that it might be too soon for the deck. While it looks like Market Square rose a bit, it has to be remembered that a bunch of new cards were introduced below.
#29 ▼1 Watchtower (Prosperity) Weighted Average: 54.57% / Unweighted Average: 55.88% (27) / Median:50.79% / Standard Deviation: 20.9%

Another solid utility card, Watchtower does a lot of things well enough, from being temporary draw, to topdecking cards, to junk protection. It plays well with a lot of cards (most notably Villa) and itís almost never bad to add to a deck. It is the versatility of Watchtower which makes it such a solid option.
#28 ▲3 Doctor (Guilds) Weighted Average: 55.7% / Unweighted Average: 50.11% (31) / Median:53.97% / Standard Deviation: 19.86%

An effective but swingy trasher with a reputation of being annoying to line up, Doctor is oddly enough one of my favorite cards, and I couldnít really explain why. It rose a bit too, which is nice to see. The overpay is really cool, and sometimes the thing to do is overpay by a billion midgame to kill everything in sight. The cool thing about Doctor is that it starts out quite good and fast, but it quickly gets bogged down the later the game progresses. This forces players to play smart and deck track what is on top. The best advice probably would be to start out with Doctor, and if possible pivot to a better trasher to clean up later on, if needed. Doctor can also perform some mediocre deck inspection, which has saved more than one of my turns before.
#27 ▼4 Enchantress (Empires) Weighted Average: 57.75% / Unweighted Average: 55.73% (28) / Median:57.14% / Standard Deviation: 20.71%

Enchantress saw a bit of a drop this year, which is probably disappointing. Quite often itís a good opener just for the odds of messing up the opponentís opening buys as well as the duration cycling. Enchantress also ends up being a nice counter to Enchantressís attack, so often an odd number of them are picked up. Another counter to Enchantress are cards that do passive effects, such as Highway or Haggler. The duration draw is also quite nice and helps make turns more consistent.
#26 =0 Chariot Race (Empires) Weighted Average: 57.82% / Unweighted Average: 56.79% (25) / Median:58.73% / Standard Deviation: 15.25%

Jshís favorite card, Chariot Race is a swingy card that becomes crucial in maybe about half of the Kingdoms its in, and merely solid to mediocre in the rest. The danger lies is buying too many Races too often, because Races wonít do much against well-developed or trashed decks. In fact, one of the best counters to a pure Race deck is buying lots of Golds and Provinces as price counters, hilariously bringing Dominion all the way back to its roots. That being said, often enough a game will be significantly harder to win because someone topdecks a Copper at the wrong time. Nothing to be done but cry and move on.
#25 ▼1 Ghost Town (Nocturne) Weighted Average: 58.22% / Unweighted Average: 56.22% (26) / Median:57.14% / Standard Deviation: 17.21%

Ghost Town is a good Village variant that has a number of tactical uses. Firstly, it can be timed to help spike price points with the extra draw, and is quite good to set up turns where it is known draw is coming up. Of course, this means Ghost Town rewards good deck tracking, instantly making it a higher skill card. Secondly, it is non-terminal, meaning Ghost Town is flexible. A less cool thing about Ghost Town is that it takes up space before it is played. The downsides to this are overplayed, but it is still real enough.
#24 Experiment (Renaissance) Weighted Average: 58.76% / Unweighted Average: 59.36% (23) / Median:53.97% / Standard Deviation: 17.49%

In a lot of ways, Experiment can be thought of as an Expedition variant. In fact, it is much better than Expedition. The flexibility that Experiment provides means that a player can choose not to burn one, saving it for another turn. This requires the player knowing exactly what she wants to purchase or do each turn. The constant threat of instantly piling Experiment is also something to always keep an eye on. With so many good things to say, the real danger of Experiment is relying on them too much to draw. There are a couple of notable exceptions such as Ironworks, but generally Experiment should be thought of as supplemental draw. Oh, did I mention how good it is as an opener? Another tip: Itís okay to remodel Experiments into stuff. Turn the temporary card into something permanent.
#23 ▲3 Scheme (Hinterlands) Weighted Average: 60.58% / Unweighted Average: 62.46% (21) / Median:60.32% / Standard Deviation: 17.59%

Scheme is a consistency machine. Topdecking villages and draw is of course a solid and effective option, but there are always other tactical plays to be made. Annoying Sea Hag or Young Witch game? Pair them with Scheme and the player gets more plays without buying a second one. Need protection? Topdeck a Reaction. Want to trash more? You know what to do. By the way, did you know that if you buy nothing and topdeck the Hermit, you get a Madman and also get to keep the Hermit. Weird, huh?
#22 ▼2 Lookout (Seaside) Weighted Average: 62.06% / Unweighted Average: 57.5% (24) / Median:61.9% / Standard Deviation: 19.96%

Itís almost become a showoff game in the community as to who figured out Lookout was good the soonest. It was generally considered to be an annoying and mediocre card at the start because of the worst case scenarios, but it had a renaissance (heh) in the last couple of years, and now it has fallen a bit again. Lookout cycles, it trashes and it scouts. The scary stuff about Lookout can be mitigated with a bit of deck tracking, but sometimes, bad things happen to good people. Itís in the name, sometimes you just have to look out.
#21 =0 Catapult (Empires) Weighted Average: 64.11% / Unweighted Average: 62.56% (20) / Median:65.08% / Standard Deviation: 18.92%

Itís Militia, but better. Catapult makes games degenerate quickly and often. However, it isnít as simple as killing Copper every time. Sometimes Estates have to die. Sometimes the play is to go for the Silver (or Rocks) cursing, delay it a bit and get to the finish line of deck consistency, and kick the opponent while heís still on the ground, over and over. Sometimes cursing is more trouble than it is worth and Catapult is just discarding, except for that time when the player wants a points lead at the end so blows up a Silver to make it harder to lose. Catapult always makes a player think, from tactical plays to discard choices.
#20 ▲4 Plan (Adventures) Weighted Average: 64.43% / Unweighted Average: 61.77% (22) / Median:65.08% / Standard Deviation: 18.77%

Plan is a tricky Event, and depending on who is asked, itís Great or Not-So-Great. It looks like the Greats are winning this year, as Plan jumped up a couple of spots. It cannot be denied that thinning a card and adding an Action card all at once is a good play, but the tricky bit is placing Plan on the right card. Too expensive, and thereís never anything to trash. If the card sucks, the double whammy punch becomes more of a single whammy slap. Nonetheless, Plan does in fact make players plan. Just donít get caught with the sad 4/3 opening when it counts.
#19 ▼1 Village (Base) Weighted Average: 65.74% / Unweighted Average: 63.86% (19) / Median:68.25% / Standard Deviation: 20.82%

Perhaps the most important and influential card in all of Dominion, Village is the concept card that makes the game as satisfying as it is. Without a card like Village, building fun decks becomes significantly harder. Thereís really not much else to say. Itís cheap. Itís a Village. Youíll get Village.
#18 ▼1 Dungeon (Adventures) Weighted Average: 69.17% / Unweighted Average: 64.6% (18) / Median:68.25% / Standard Deviation: 20.89%

A great opener, Dungeon is straight up a better version of Warehouse. The first turn cycles a bit less, but the second turn is a wonderful game of ďchoose your starting hand.Ē More choices are always good. Dungeon is a consistency machine as well, saving turns for players worldwide. The best thing to do with a pair of Dungeons is try to space them, playing one a turn. Sometimes this canít be done, so donít hold too hard to that rule.
#17 Sewers (Renaissance) Weighted Average: 70.89% / Unweighted Average: 70.72% (15) / Median:73.02% / Standard Deviation: 20.57%

Sewers is a wonky but efficient trasher, doubling the effectiveness of anything that trashes. Pair it with a Steward, and the deck never has to worry about Steward collision. In addition, Sewers works wonders with unconventional cards like Pixie, which blow up to trigger the effect.
#16 ▲2 Hermit (Dark Ages) Weighted Average: 74.02% / Unweighted Average: 69.56% (17) / Median:75.81% / Standard Deviation: 23.16%

It just so happens that I am writing a Hermit article now, how about that. Hermit is a really nifty card that trashes, gains and accelerates. In fact, easily the strongest thing about Hermit is the ability to gain Madmen and if it did nothing else, it would still be quite fantastic. Itís fine to sacrifice one mediocre turn for a super turn, as Tactician taught long ago. Hermit also provides gain and play options with the Madman plays if deck is drawn, how neat is that. If thereís anything to take away though, itís that Hermit should be thought of primarily as a deck accelerator, and not a gainer/trasher.
#15 ▼5 Gear (Adventures) Weighted Average: 75.4% / Unweighted Average: 71.19% (14) / Median:76.19% / Standard Deviation: 19.98%

One of the greatest draw cards in Dominion, Gear provides immense flexibility and consistency like few cards do. Gear may set aside to spike a price point, to smooth economy, or even to reduce the shuffle size. It has long been a theme that Gear is good in Money decks. It is also the case that Gear shines even harder in engines. So itís weird that Gear dropped a bunch this year, like really weird.
#14 ▼1 Forager (Dark Ages) Weighted Average: 75.49% / Unweighted Average: 74.84% (12) / Median:76.19% / Standard Deviation: 18.06%

A fine trasher and a fine source of buy, Forager is a solid nonterminal option to thin decks with. The strength of Forager comes in that it becomes stronger the more types of treasures are trashed. Ignore Forager, and the opponent gets all the goodies with trashing. Canít have that, so everybody has to get Forager. The single most annoying thing about Forager which makes it a high skill card is that if there are no gains on the board, it almost becomes a ďfake buyĒ. To gain an extra card, a card has to die. At the start this is easy, but at the end it gets really tricky. Knowing when to kill cards in these sorts of situations will make all of the difference in winning or losing.
#13 ▼1 Bonfire (Adventures) Weighted Average: 76.77% / Unweighted Average: 74.47% (13) / Median:77.78% / Standard Deviation: 14.74%

The greatest strength of Bonfire is in the opening, where the deck gets to thin Coppers (and in rare cases Necropolis) before even shuffling. Bonfire is a very fast trasher because of this, especially when paired with trashers that can kill Estates. There are also great combos like with Jack of All Trades, which both supplies Silvers and kills Estates.
#12 ▲3 Menagerie (Cornucopia) Weighted Average: 76.93% / Unweighted Average: 76.21% (11) / Median:77.78% / Standard Deviation: 15.7%

Menagerie has a bit of a exponential effect, in that the first couple donít do much. However, as more Menageries are added, they start drawing consistently and often. Menagerie also loves deck diversity, something crucial to modern Engine building. Menagerie also loves thinning, something crucial to modern Engine building. I donít know that itís this high on the list, but many times players get burned for not pursuing Menagerie hard enough. Iíve seen top players do it recently, man. It always feels bad at the start, but pays off in the end.
#11 Star Chart (Renaissance) Weighted Average: 78.14% / Unweighted Average: 69.74% (16) / Median:80.95% / Standard Deviation: 28.7%

Criminally underrated in the first outing, Star Chart is clearly in the contending for the best $3 cost card, and one of the very best cards in Dominion hands down. Being able to control deck shuffle contents in any capacity is a very strong power, and the only thing that will straight up beat Star Chart is literal perfect shuffle luck paired with trashers like Chapel or Donate.
#10 ▼3 Swindler (Intrigue) Weighted Average: 78.89% / Unweighted Average: 76.95% (10) / Median:80.95% / Standard Deviation: 16.85%

The most unanimously enjoyed card, Swindler always creates fun and enjoyable gameplay, while still being incredibly skill-based.  No other card creates nearly as many decision points as something like Swindling your opponentís Laboratory.  Do you give them a Duchy?  Do you say ĎOof, sorryí and then give them a Duchy?  Or do you just resign and blacklist your opponent as soon as they buy one? (written by GreyEK)
#9 ▼3 Fishing Village (Seaside) Weighted Average: 79.06% / Unweighted Average: 77.71% (8) / Median:82.54% / Standard Deviation: 18.63%

Having the rare distinction of being an openable Village, Fishing Village brings a whole host of strengths to a deck. It is a legitimate contender to Silver, and it provides Actions over the course of two turns. Getting an Action at the start of a turn is stronger than simply being forced to play a village midturn, due to the randomness of the average starting hand. Instead of relying on finding a village and a draw card, now the deck only needs to find a draw card.
#8 ▲5 Black Market (Promo) Weighted Average: 80.16% / Unweighted Average: 78.02% (7) / Median:82.54% / Standard Deviation: 15.7%

Black Market has changed throughout the years, due to reasons outside of the metagame involving client decisions as to what it does. As such, itís harder to measure what the community thought of Black Market throughout the years. If Stef decided tomorrow that Black Market would only have 20 cards, Black Market drops very hard. As it stands, Black Market has 60 cards, has the most useless cards removed from the deck, and as such Black Market nearly dominates every game it is in. Even on boards with no villages and no hope for building an engine, somehow Black Market can pull out an undeserved win out of thin air. And donít even get me started on Fairgrounds and Museum, or the combos with Draw-to-X, Tactician, Quarry, and other stuff. Black Market is perhaps the most versatile card in Dominion.
#7 ▲1 Amulet (Adventures) Weighted Average: 80.87% / Unweighted Average: 78.75% (6) / Median:85.48% / Standard Deviation: 17.62%

Amulet is never really bad for a deck. The variety of choices (silver gain, trash, coin) let it become flexible in a similar manner to Steward. Also like Steward, the simplicity of Amulet can be deceptive in evaluating its power level. I think itís a bit overranked here, but it is hard to deny just how useful Amulet is in nearly every deck.
#6 ▲4 Ferry (Adventures) Weighted Average: 83.41% / Unweighted Average: 82.16% (5) / Median:87.5% / Standard Deviation: 15.61%

Ferry saw a sharp rise this year. Itís nearly unskippable and the effect is powerful. The tricky stuff comes into play with questions of efficiency. Move around the Ferry token too much, and buys are being wasted. Buy too few cards with Ferry on the card, and Ferry wasnít very efficient. As with most of the top cards, the complexity of decision making with Ferry is what makes good players so much better with it.
#5 =0 Urchin (Dark Ages) Weighted Average: 85% / Unweighted Average: 82.49% (4) / Median:90.48% / Standard Deviation: 21.64%

The dreaded double Urchin open commands respect and is often correct. Connect both Urchins before the second shuffle, and the deck position is looking good. Fail to connect, and already the deck is working from behind. Of course, connecting Urchins is how to get Mercenary, a powerfully efficient card that trashes, generates economy, draws cards, and attacks the opponent all at once. With such centralizing power in Mercenary, itís no surprise that Urchin is so high on the list.
#4 Cathedral (Renaissance) Weighted Average: 85.94% / Unweighted Average: 77.39% (9) / Median:95.24% / Standard Deviation: 29.67%

Now we are onto the top four. Cathedral went from ďscary to buyĒ to ďliterally DonateĒ in the span of couple of months. Right now the community is finetuning when to not get Cathedral. Some great reasons include discard attacks, Donate, and a money board. As such, Cathedral isnít as automatic as Donate is. Knowing the rare cases of Cathedral skipping will win many a game.
#3 =0 Steward (Intrigue) Weighted Average: 90.01% / Unweighted Average: 84.89% (3) / Median:92.06% / Standard Deviation: 19%

Steward is an incredibly versatile card that continues to shine despite each expansion growing progressively stronger in power level. It is a workhorse that is simple but effective: thin cards, draw cards, or generate economy. This flexibility lends Steward to be highly efficient in almost any type of deck. It might be a tiny bit high for my tastes here, but itís really not by much. A lot of these top cards are similar in power level.
#2 =0 Masquerade (Intrigue) Weighted Average: 94.95% / Unweighted Average: 92.65% (1) / Median:98.41% / Standard Deviation: 17.04%

The card I would pick for top $3, Masquerade has lived in the shadow of Ambassador for years and years. The cataclysmic nature of losing an Ambassador war is forever burned into any Dominion veteranís mind, and will perhaps forever paint the narrative. Masquerade draws, thins cards, and puts pressure on the opponent all at once. Let me tell you a story. There was a contest last year between a person who bought Masquerade and ignored Donate, and someone else who bought only Donate and ignored Masquerade, just for fun. Obviously Donate won, but Masquerade at times demanded precise play from the Donate player and sometimes made the game scarily close. Masquerade is that good.
#1 =0 Ambassador (Seaside) Weighted Average: 95.65% / Unweighted Average: 90.91% (2) / Median:98.41% / Standard Deviation: 20.4%

Rated the top card for the $3 costs for the umpteenth time, Ambassador is a safe pick, albeit this time it is not so clear whether it should actually be the best with Cathedral, Star Chart and Masquerade as primary contenders. Nevertheless, Ambassador is an incredibly strong card and if it is not first, it is certainly within the top four.

That's it. You can all go home now.
« Last Edit: February 14, 2019, 04:47:06 pm by Seprix »
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werothegreat

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Re: The Dominion Cards Lists 2018 Edition: $3 Cards (Top Half)
« Reply #1 on: February 14, 2019, 04:32:37 pm »
+2

I would also pick Masquerade for the top.
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Re: The Dominion Cards Lists 2018 Edition: $3 Cards (Top Half)
« Reply #2 on: February 14, 2019, 04:41:06 pm »
+2

Menagerie has a bit of a exponential effect, in that the first couple donít do much. However, as more Menageries are added, they start drawing consistently and often.

What is this supposed to mean? How does adding more and more menageries to a deck make them more likely to activate (or even exponentially more likely to activate)? I understand that having a second and a third can help activate since it's another unique, but you specifically said it's after the first couple. Four to five Menageries hardly seems like a "bit of an exponential effect", unless I'm not understanding your meaning here.
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Seprix

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Re: The Dominion Cards Lists 2018 Edition: $3 Cards (Top Half)
« Reply #3 on: February 14, 2019, 04:43:18 pm »
0

Menagerie has a bit of a exponential effect, in that the first couple don’t do much. However, as more Menageries are added, they start drawing consistently and often.

What is this supposed to mean? How does adding more and more menageries to a deck make them more likely to activate (or even exponentially more likely to activate)? I understand that having a second and a third can help activate since it's another unique, but you specifically said it's after the first couple. Four to five Menageries hardly seems like a "bit of an exponential effect", unless I'm not understanding your meaning here.

It's quite exponential. Having two Menageries in hand is okay, since the draw triggers after it's played. Thus, it gets better when you add more Menageries versus other cards. Maybe I'm wording it weird, and I'm open to rewriting it.
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Re: The Dominion Cards Lists 2018 Edition: $3 Cards (Top Half)
« Reply #4 on: February 14, 2019, 05:30:50 pm »
+2

I don't have tons of experience with it yet, but so far Cargo Ship seems really good to me.  I think it's underrated here.
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Re: The Dominion Cards Lists 2018 Edition: $3 Cards (Top Half)
« Reply #5 on: February 14, 2019, 06:09:02 pm »
+3

Cathedral and Star Chart are underrated.
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Re: The Dominion Cards Lists 2018 Edition: $3 Cards (Top Half)
« Reply #6 on: February 14, 2019, 06:44:53 pm »
+6

Okay for the list as a whole:

Fell and should keep falling: Fishing Village - Placing Fishing Village in this category isn't so much about Fishing Village as it is about the other cards on this list. Fishing Village is quite good but the lower cards, particularly the trashers, Dungeon, and Gear, often do more for consistency than having a start-of-turn extra action. Also, the first two or four are very impressive but then you would most often rather have another village that draws. I would argue for Ghost Town being above it if consistency building is your main reason for rating this so high.

Fell and shouldn't be falling: Gear - Along with Dungeon should be in the top 10. Few cards do more for you early: while it doesn't feel spectacular, having turns 3 and 4 go more correctly is a big deal. After this speed has been gained, Gear will then act as a strong consistency measure, giving a bit of draw but more importantly allowing the setting aside of either cards necessary to draw or those that would prevent you from doing so such that they do not get in the way.

Rose and shouldn't be rising: Gladiator - Menagerie was a close second here, but Gladiator's rise should have been a fall rather than roughly staying put. Contrary to what people have been saying in the other thread, Gladiator acts as a terminal Silver, and going out of your way to make it a Gold is typically a bad plan, not that either card is special or even good. Being able to play with Gladiator against poor opponents where revealing Fortune is significantly better for you than them likely makes it feel better than it actually is.

Rose and should keep rising: Smugglers - Against competent opponents, Smugglers is a gainer that will gain what they want nearly regardless of cost, which is likely what you want too. This card can warp games with people being careful about their gains as to not give more away than they get, and often plays as better than buying. While the top half of this list is already loaded and there are other cards (Develop, Improve) that should be moving into or at least close to it, a place can also probably be made for Smugglers.

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Re: The Dominion Cards Lists 2018 Edition: $3 Cards (Top Half)
« Reply #7 on: February 14, 2019, 07:16:17 pm »
+2

Menagerie has a bit of a exponential effect, in that the first couple donít do much. However, as more Menageries are added, they start drawing consistently and often.

What is this supposed to mean? How does adding more and more menageries to a deck make them more likely to activate (or even exponentially more likely to activate)? I understand that having a second and a third can help activate since it's another unique, but you specifically said it's after the first couple. Four to five Menageries hardly seems like a "bit of an exponential effect", unless I'm not understanding your meaning here.

It's quite exponential. Having two Menageries in hand is okay, since the draw triggers after it's played. Thus, it gets better when you add more Menageries versus other cards. Maybe I'm wording it weird, and I'm open to rewriting it.

It's exponential in the sense of exponential decay. It's less likely to hit as your hand gets bigger  :P
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Re: The Dominion Cards Lists 2018 Edition: $3 Cards (Top Half)
« Reply #8 on: February 14, 2019, 07:26:21 pm »
0

Experiment being ranked above Ghost Town is strange. The main purpose of Experiment is to give you two one-time increases of your handsize by one. Ghost Town also gives you two one-time increases of your handsize by one, the first being on the turn you buy it (since it is gained to hand) and the second being on the turn after you buy it.
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Re: The Dominion Cards Lists 2018 Edition: $3 Cards (Top Half)
« Reply #9 on: February 14, 2019, 10:50:32 pm »
+2

Ghost Town also gives you two one-time increases of your handsize by one, the first being on the turn you buy it (since it is gained to hand) and the second being on the turn after you buy it.

Um... What? It technically does increase your handsize when you gain it, but practically speaking it doesn't because it gives you no benefit on the turn you play it.
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Re: The Dominion Cards Lists 2018 Edition: $3 Cards (Top Half)
« Reply #10 on: February 15, 2019, 02:10:55 am »
+4

Star Chart is overrated. It should be with Scheme, the two cards do mostly the same thing.
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Re: The Dominion Cards Lists 2018 Edition: $3 Cards (Top Half)
« Reply #11 on: February 15, 2019, 02:36:01 am »
+4

Star Chart is overrated. It should be with Scheme, the two cards do mostly the same thing.

lol
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Re: The Dominion Cards Lists 2018 Edition: $3 Cards (Top Half)
« Reply #12 on: February 15, 2019, 04:26:43 am »
+5

I haven't made a list, but Cathedral would have been an easy #1 for me.

Cargo Ship is a card that had me worried when I first read it for being too good. I now know I was wrong - I expect it to rise a little bit but not much.

This post was full of Seprix' opinion and while I am happy to disagree in silence with most of it here I feel an urge to respond:
If Stef decided tomorrow that Black Market would only have 20 cards, Black Market drops very hard.     
First of all, I don't make decisions - or at least I try not to. I make suggestions to Donald and he decides what the game is. In this particular case it even involved a seriously long discussion with the entire community.
Secondly, you assume people voted about the online card instead of the real card. Could be right, could be wrong.
Third, the card says you should take all cards not in the kingdom, and then Donald says you should do whatever you like best or what is practical. All cards not in the kingdom is 250+; 60 is just a reasonable approximation of that (I don't think 60 or 250 would matter for BMs strength) while at 20 it was significantly weaker then intended.
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Re: The Dominion Cards Lists 2018 Edition: $3 Cards (Top Half)
« Reply #13 on: February 15, 2019, 08:05:07 am »
+2

Star Chart is overrated. It should be with Scheme, the two cards do mostly the same thing.

Comments like these suggest how many players assume they can draw their deck each turn. Both cards guarantee to give you your favourite card next turn, yet one of these offers the choice out of your whole deck, even mid-turn.
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Re: The Dominion Cards Lists 2018 Edition: $3 Cards (Top Half)
« Reply #14 on: February 15, 2019, 08:44:19 am »
+2

Star Chart is overrated. It should be with Scheme, the two cards do mostly the same thing.

Comments like these suggest how many players assume they can draw their deck each turn. Both cards guarantee to give you your favourite card next turn, yet one of these offers the choice out of your whole deck, even mid-turn.
Not really. Scheme is almost as useful, maybe even more so, if you do not draw your deck. If I have one Scheme and one power card, I topdeck the Scheme until I reach the power card, and then topdeck the power card. This may not work as nicely if I draw the power card before the Scheme, but on the other hand if I am lucky I can play my power card twice in the same shuffle, which Star Chart cannot do.

There is some benefit in Star Chart being prompt, whereas Scheme takes a shuffle to play, but I really don't see a difference that justifies a rating delta as big as shown in the rankings. In sloggy games, Star Chart is like Pearl Diver: It prevents a card from missing the shuffle (obviously it is better at that than Pearl Diver). In engine games, Star Chart prevents you from having a dud roughly as well as Scheme does.
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Re: The Dominion Cards Lists 2018 Edition: $3 Cards (Top Half)
« Reply #15 on: February 15, 2019, 10:45:39 am »
0

Star Chart is overrated. It should be with Scheme, the two cards do mostly the same thing.
I just tried a sim that opens Scheme + Conspirator, and then only buys estates whenever Conspirator is in play.  Then I tried the same sim with Star Chart.  The Star Chart strategy initially plays Conspirator every 2 turns, and drains estates by turn 20.  The Scheme strategy initially plays Conspirator on about 50-60% of turns, and drains estates around turn 18.  Oh and if you get neither, then it takes about 24 turns.

So yeah, Star Chart seems about as good as a single scheme, in a deck that doesn't draw.  But I'm guessing Star Chart really shines with duration cards and draw cards (since those are likely to miss shuffles if not at the top of your deck).  Star chart + Masq is a great example.
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Re: The Dominion Cards Lists 2018 Edition: $3 Cards (Top Half)
« Reply #16 on: February 15, 2019, 10:51:46 am »
+1

So yeah, Star Chart seems about as good as a single scheme, in a deck that doesn't draw.  But I'm guessing Star Chart really shines with duration cards and draw cards (since those are likely to miss shuffles if not at the top of your deck).  Star chart + Masq is a great example.
I admit that for the very specific case of terminal draw - BM, Star Chart beats Scheme. For plenty of other cases (Conspirator, King's Court etc.) Scheme is better. That doesn't seem to be a useful thing to look at when determining card strength, the vast majority of games are not terminal draw - BM.
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Re: The Dominion Cards Lists 2018 Edition: $3 Cards (Top Half)
« Reply #17 on: February 15, 2019, 11:33:14 am »
0

Star chart guarantees reliability no matter what the deck is. Scheme only does that in narrow circumstances. Scheme has a higher ceiling, but in the context of all games, star chart is far more reliable. I usually open with it.
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Re: The Dominion Cards Lists 2018 Edition: $3 Cards (Top Half)
« Reply #18 on: February 15, 2019, 11:44:04 am »
+1

Third, the card says you should take all cards not in the kingdom, and then Donald says you should do whatever you like best or what is practical. All cards not in the kingdom is 250+; 60 is just a reasonable approximation of that (I don't think 60 or 250 would matter for BMs strength) while at 20 it was significantly weaker then intended.
The original Black Market text said to use one of each unused card. The current text though just says "Make a Black Market deck out of different unused Kingdom cards." So anything is fair game. 60 is good though.

When the card had the original text, I never actually made it every card; I would use one not-being-used expansion as the Black Market deck. I only have 10 copies of each card, using one regular copy as the randomizer, so this approach took no setup.
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Re: The Dominion Cards Lists 2018 Edition: $3 Cards (Top Half)
« Reply #19 on: February 15, 2019, 11:51:44 am »
0

For those using auto-link; are these card list threads working for you? I'm seeing all the hover popups always appear at the top of the page (offscreen if not scrolled up). *Edit* It's only a problem in the OP; the replies seem normal.
« Last Edit: February 15, 2019, 11:52:58 am by GendoIkari »
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Re: The Dominion Cards Lists 2018 Edition: $3 Cards (Top Half)
« Reply #20 on: February 15, 2019, 01:09:28 pm »
+4

Scheme doesn't do a very good job of letting me play my Masquerade turns 3 and 4 regardless of shuffles.

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Re: The Dominion Cards Lists 2018 Edition: $3 Cards (Top Half)
« Reply #21 on: February 15, 2019, 01:19:27 pm »
0

Should also be relevant that Star Chart can only ever work on a single card; while Scheme can be combined with other Schemes to make sure things collide.
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Re: The Dominion Cards Lists 2018 Edition: $3 Cards (Top Half)
« Reply #22 on: February 15, 2019, 01:22:55 pm »
+1

I'm really surprised that people think Star Chart and Scheme are similar in power level. I'm happy to play Faust on a bunch of boards regarding this topic, because Star Chart to me is an easy Top 4 $3 cost.
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Re: The Dominion Cards Lists 2018 Edition: $3 Cards (Top Half)
« Reply #23 on: February 15, 2019, 01:28:17 pm »
0

For those using auto-link; are these card list threads working for you? I'm seeing all the hover popups always appear at the top of the page (offscreen if not scrolled up). *Edit* It's only a problem in the OP; the replies seem normal.

I'm not using auto-link but I temporarily turned it on to test it and had the same problem.
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Re: The Dominion Cards Lists 2018 Edition: $3 Cards (Top Half)
« Reply #24 on: February 15, 2019, 06:12:10 pm »
+5

Star Chart isn't (just) for reliability, it's for speed. Playing critical cards faster and more often by getting them at the top of the shuffles.

That "Conspirator / Estate test" thing is an absolute joke. Sure, Star Chart does a lot less when the card it is accelerating doesn't have as much of an effect. It also does a lot less when you topdeck a card your deck is totally full of. Neither of these cases are when Star Chart is super good.

Like, I just don't know how you can have played with Star Chart and not get what it does. It removes a lot of luck from the equation, and good luck saves at least a turn on any given board.
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