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[Dominionaer]

B take a normal 5 card turn after the Outpost turn

[ftl]

Here's my interpretation:

A plays 2 Possessions.
During the 1st Possessed turn, A makes B play Outpost.
The 2nd Possessed turn is an Outpost turn, controlled by A.
B takes a normal turn.

Where I'm confused is when A plays ONE Possession, and makes B play Outpost.
B takes an Outpost turn immediately after the Possessed turn - that much is made clear in the FAQ.

But does this means that player B is screwed with a 3 card hand for his turn, and A has his next turn immediately after?  Or does B take a normal 5 card turn after the Outpost turn caused by A Possessing B and playing his Outpost?

This case is I think resolvable by just following the text on the cards exactly. B plays outpost; he takes an extra turn, with 3 cards, as specified by Outpost. Then he gets to take his normal turn, because he hasn't had it yet. All of those are controlled by B, because Possession only takes control of one turn.


I'd still love to hear an explanation and reasoning for what happens if A plays multiple possessions, and then forces B to play Outpost on the first Possessed turn.

[AJD]

I'd still love to hear an explanation and reasoning for what happens if A plays multiple possessions, and then forces B to play Outpost on the first Possessed turn.

Okay, let's reason this out.

Turn A:
—Alex plays Possession. This stipulates that turn P1 should follow turn A.
—Alex plays another Possession. This stipulates that turn P2 should follow turn A.
End of Turn A. Now two things are trying to happen at the same time: turn P1 and P2. Alex chooses P1. Therefore turn P2 will follow turn P1.

Turn P1:
—Becky plays Outpost. This causes her to draw 3 cards in cleanup, and stipulates that turn O1 should follow turn P1.
End of turn P1. Now two things are trying to happen at the same time: turn P2 and O1. Alex gets to choose, because Becky is being possessed.

...If Alex chooses O1, Becky will play her own turn with a three-card hand, and turn P2 (with Alex possessing Becky) will follow, with a five-card hand unless an Outpost is played on turn O1. Turn B will follow turn P2.
...If Alex chooses P2, Alex will play Becky's turn with a three-card hand, and turn O1 never happens because it would be a third consecutive turn. Turn B will follow turn P2.

Does that sound right?

[werothegreat]

Does that sound right?

No.  P2 becomes O1.  Becky's Outpost turn is played by Alex.

[AJD]

Does that sound right?

No.  P2 becomes O1.  Becky's Outpost turn is played by Alex.

Why?

[Ingix]

Does that sound right?

No.  P2 becomes O1.  Becky's Outpost turn is played by Alex.

I think there might be a confusion of terminology here. Outpost does 2 things: It cause you to draw only 3 cards in this turn's cleanup phase, and it causes you to get an extra turn. In the simple case that there is only one Outpost involved and nothing else, that means your next turn after you played Outpost will be the turn created by Outpost and you have only the three cards you drew this turn on this next turn. From a player's perspective in this case, the turn generated by Outpost is special only because his initial hand size is smaller than usual.

So I think different players might mean slightly different things when they say "Outpost turn". For some, it means the turn generated by Outpost (A). For others, it is the turn they start with 3 cards in hand (B). As I explained above, in the simple case A and B are the same. In our case, involving Possessions, they are not.

When werothegreat says "Becky's Outpost turn is played by Alex.", the meaning of "Outpost turn" matches (B). OF course, if you use (A), this is wrong. This could be the interpretation of AJD.

+++

The only place I disagree with AJD is his explanation is who chooses between P2 and O1 coming next. I say Becky chooses, as the choice is made between turns. Other than that, I agree.

[AJD]

The only place I disagree with AJD is his explanation is who chooses between P2 and O1 coming next. I say Becky chooses, as the choice is made between turns. Other than that, I agree.

Becky is still being possessed at that point though.

[Wolphmaniac]

One thing that all of these scenarios have in common is that nobody wins.

[werothegreat]

Werothegreat Throne Rooms a Possession.

Werothegreat, controlling VillageIdiot's turn, makes him play an Outpost.

From what is on the cards, and what is in the FAQ, and my own internal logic, Werothegreat's 2nd Possession should control the Outpost turn.

Anyone who still asserts that the Outpost turn is a separate thingy that Werothegreat's 2nd Possession CAN'T control, please produce a canonical (e.g. from the mouth of Donald X himself) explanation why.

Edit: I think I get it now.

 

Both cards say "extra turn."  So i guess this turns into a blue dog thing.

[UltimaPenguin]

The only place I disagree with AJD is his explanation is who chooses between P2 and O1 coming next. I say Becky chooses, as the choice is made between turns. Other than that, I agree.

Becky is still being possessed at that point though.

I disagree. The decision for which extra turn goes next happens between turns. Nobody is possessed between turns. Donald ruled in this post (http://boardgamegeek.com/thread/540344/multiple-possessions-from-multiple-players-stack-o/page/1) that the "active" player between turns is whoever took the most recent turn. The most recent turn was made by Becky (whose choices were controlled by Alex, but it was still Becky's turn). So Becky is the "active" player, but it's nobody's turn, so nobody is being possessed while this decision is made. So I'd say Becky chooses.

[Dominionaer]

... 2nd Possession should control the Outpost turn.

At first instinct I would have agreed to this. But after a round of thinking i go with UltimaPenguin (which is opposite to my former opinion.) B (VillageIdiot) has to choose between

second possessed turn with 3 card hand and no extra turn from Outpost
or
outpost turn (controlled by B) followed by second possessed turn

Until Donald states otherwise!

[AJD]

The only place I disagree with AJD is his explanation is who chooses between P2 and O1 coming next. I say Becky chooses, as the choice is made between turns. Other than that, I agree.

Becky is still being possessed at that point though.

I disagree. The decision for which extra turn goes next happens between turns. Nobody is possessed between turns. Donald ruled in this post (http://boardgamegeek.com/thread/540344/multiple-possessions-from-multiple-players-stack-o/page/1) that the "active" player between turns is whoever took the most recent turn. The most recent turn was made by Becky (whose choices were controlled by Alex, but it was still Becky's turn). So Becky is the "active" player, but it's nobody's turn, so nobody is being possessed while this decision is made. So I'd say Becky chooses.

I think that in one of those BGG threads somewhere Donald ruled that Alex's control over Becky's decisions extends into that between-turn space as well, though I can't find it right now.

[Jeebus]

I see that my FAQ was referenced earlier in this thread, but I'm kinda sad it didn't lead to the correct resolution of the problem. If you guys look in section 21. Clarifications and errata under "Possession", you will find an item that says the following:

• Clarification: If Outpost or Possession is played on a Possession turn, and another turn is in queue to happen (from a card played before this turn), follow 19.4 Timing of several concurrent abilities. As stated there, in between turns the player who last had a turn is considered to be the current player, but if that player was Possessed on that turn, the Possessor still makes decisions for that player between turns (such as whether to play an Outpost turn or Possession turn first).

http://boardgamegeek.com/wiki/page/Complete_and_All-Encompassing_Dominion_FAQ

There is also a source, which is probably the ruling AJD was looking for.