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Author Topic: What are your most hated official cards?  (Read 747 times)

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ipofanes

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Re: What are your most hated official cards?
« Reply #25 on: January 29, 2019, 07:53:31 am »
0

But in order to load up on pages to play warriors you need lots of free Actions. Hence, Champion.

(italicised text inserted)
« Last Edit: January 29, 2019, 09:14:16 am by ipofanes »
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Asper

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Re: What are your most hated official cards?
« Reply #26 on: January 29, 2019, 07:55:11 am »
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But in order to load up on pages you need lots of free Actions. Hence, Champion.
Pages are cantrips.

Puk

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Re: What are your most hated official cards?
« Reply #27 on: January 29, 2019, 08:53:30 am »
0

1. Rebuild
2. Rebuild
3. Rebuild
4. Rebuild
5. Rebuild
6. Rebuild
7. Rebuild
8. Rebuild
9. A Warrior that trashes my Warrior or discards my Hero/Champion
10. Possession
« Last Edit: January 29, 2019, 08:55:29 am by Puk »
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Asper

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Re: What are your most hated official cards?
« Reply #28 on: January 29, 2019, 09:37:27 am »
0

But in order to load up on pages to play warriors you need lots of free Actions. Hence, Champion.

(italicised text inserted)
You need one Action, a lot of Pages, and one Warrior.

Screwyioux

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Re: What are your most hated official cards?
« Reply #29 on: January 29, 2019, 10:18:05 am »
0

1. Minion (a deceptively luck-rewarding card in my experience)
2. Possession (it feels so invasive to have another player use your hand)
3. Tournament (edges out so many other strategies by heavily incentivizing early Provinces on top of being really swingy in the favor of who gets the best Prize for the board)
4. Peasant
5. Page  (both the travelers have the problem of mattering way too much where you find them in a shuffle, you can be several turns behind the opponent just because their terminal draw was non-terminal a turn before yours was)
6. Scrying Pool (makes games take too long and also "solves" the board to some degree, I don't really like super powerful deck control cards like this)
7. Donate (same as above)
8. Torturer (there's a reason Donald hasn't made too many other "stackable" attacks since Torturer, it just makes games feel oppressive and needs too little support to do it. Compare it to Knights, which require you to interact with the rest of the board, if you have a village, Torturers draw more Torturers for you)
9. Rebuild (this has been pretty well addressed by others, it's just a non-interactive card and games where it's good are boring)

I don't have a tenth. Dominion is a pretty solid game, all things considered.
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ClouduHieh

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Re: What are your most hated official cards?
« Reply #30 on: January 29, 2019, 10:49:31 am »
0

Well wouldnít golem be your tenth? Itís basically as long as scrying pool, cause it makes you play all the Actions you get. I once had a turn play golem gained a golem and a alchemist had to play the alchemist, then had to play the golem again, got apothecary, and another golem, had to play apothecary then had to play another golem, then I got 2 minions, played the the first one for the treasure, then the other one for the attack and got a new hand of actions, played conspirator, Played shantytown which was my last action, or so I thought got another alchemist. This was online the guy resigned right after all that. Then finished with lord rattington, and the cpu had a similar turn except it went a whole lot faster. So are sure golem isnít as long as scrying pool in the same sense?
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GendoIkari

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Re: What are your most hated official cards?
« Reply #31 on: January 29, 2019, 11:05:21 am »
0

Well wouldnít golem be your tenth? Itís basically as long as scrying pool, cause it makes you play all the Actions you get. I once had a turn play golem gained a golem and a alchemist had to play the alchemist, then had to play the golem again, got apothecary, and another golem, had to play apothecary then had to play another golem, then I got 2 minions, played the the first one for the treasure, then the other one for the attack and got a new hand of actions, played conspirator, Played shantytown which was my last action, or so I thought got another alchemist. This was online the guy resigned right after all that. Then finished with lord rattington, and the cpu had a similar turn except it went a whole lot faster. So are sure golem isnít as long as scrying pool in the same sense?

Sounds like you might be playing Golem wrong... it cannot play other Golems.

*Edit* Except I see you were playing online, so couldn't have been playing it wrong... maybe just remembering wrong, or following the events happening incorrectly. Golem could play 2 Alchemists, which would then give you actions available to play a separate Golem if you wanted. But you need many Golems in your deck to play all your actions. You only need 1 Scrying Pool in your deck to draw all your actions.
« Last Edit: January 29, 2019, 11:08:45 am by GendoIkari »
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ClouduHieh

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Re: What are your most hated official cards?
« Reply #32 on: January 29, 2019, 11:40:50 am »
0

Yeah your right it was a long time ago, must of gotten the order wrong. Did have a lot of golems and it was back when I was still a newbie. But Iíve never had the same turn with scrying pool as you guys have Iíve always had to play at least a few scrying pools to get a bunch of Actions. The most Iíve ever got was 3 actions, from one scrying pool. And there have been time when I wasnít able to play all my action cards cause I ran out of Actions. If you have scrying pool in a game with few + actions and no +2 Actions itís not as powerful as it seems. Also it would seem before renaissance came into the picture, you would only get +2 Actions once every 3 games online.
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Commodore Chuckles

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Re: What are your most hated official cards?
« Reply #33 on: January 29, 2019, 05:55:35 pm »
0

I get the feeling you're buying Golem a lot more than the rest of us. Golem is pretty terrible if you've trashed everything. You've mentioned that you don't like trashing, which is fine. But that's probably why you're buying it so much, and noticing its irritating features more.
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Chappy7

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Re: What are your most hated official cards?
« Reply #34 on: January 29, 2019, 06:02:36 pm »
0

In no particular order and without a lot of thought:

  -Ghost Ship.  I don't see how anyone can enjoy this.  It sucks so bad to get hit by this every turn, and it isn't even as much fun for the attacker as most attack cards are imo.
 - Chapel.  Basically always the right strategy and I'm tired of it. Donate would make the list for the same reasons as Chapel, but it is admittedly more interesting with the debt cost and the event-ness and all.
  -Page Line. (Even page itself is very boring)
  -Rebuild
  -Storyteller. Feels Counter intuitive and makes long turns that accomplish less than they feel like they should.
  -Knights. Obvious Reasons.
  -All of Alchemy other than Apprentice (Scrying Pool and Possession especially)
  -Suanavanto.
  -Margrave.  Just so OP it's insane.  Too easy to stack it and force annoying amounts of decisions and long turns.
  - Masquerade.  To me this is one of the most clever cards and obviously a very good card, but I just don't have fun with it at all.
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ClouduHieh

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Re: What are your most hated official cards?
« Reply #35 on: January 29, 2019, 08:57:24 pm »
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If you donít like masquerade you should check out my snowshoes and firn village on my snowline thread, it makes masquerade more useful.
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Screwyioux

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Re: What are your most hated official cards?
« Reply #36 on: January 30, 2019, 09:54:00 am »
0

Well wouldnít golem be your tenth? Itís basically as long as scrying pool, cause it makes you play all the Actions you get. I once had a turn play golem gained a golem and a alchemist had to play the alchemist, then had to play the golem again, got apothecary, and another golem, had to play apothecary then had to play another golem, then I got 2 minions, played the the first one for the treasure, then the other one for the attack and got a new hand of actions, played conspirator, Played shantytown which was my last action, or so I thought got another alchemist. This was online the guy resigned right after all that. Then finished with lord rattington, and the cpu had a similar turn except it went a whole lot faster. So are sure golem isnít as long as scrying pool in the same sense?

Yeah the reason Golem doesn't get a spot is that it's pretty weak most of the time. Scrying Pool "solves" a lot of the puzzle by virtue of being very strong and good at what it does. Golem isn't burdened with such characteristics.
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ClouduHieh

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Re: What are your most hated official cards?
« Reply #37 on: January 30, 2019, 11:21:04 am »
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Golem and familiar is insane too get tons of extra action and deal out a few curses to other players all in the same turn, sure scrying pool could do that but golem would give you extra actions throw in another golem and throw in another attack like torturer. At least scrying pools attack isnít as potent as other attacks. If you had no villages it would be pretty hard to play 2 torturers in a turn, but golem can help you play both in stride. Especially if you had more than one golem and more than one familiar. With that combo they would get 5 curses each in a turn, or 3 curses and one card left in their hand. Golem may be weaker on its own. But there have been times Iíve done more damage with golem than I ever did with scrying pool. Cause remember scrying pool doesnít guarantee that you get Actions, frankly itís really hard to get a lot of action cards if you play scrying pool just once. However you play golem just once and you have a lot of attack cards which means one thing danger danger danger for the other players. Golem forces you to play all cards too.

Just add a game with golem, no +2 Actions, 5 attack cards in the supply no reactions. And see what happens, I had a game online once except it had 4 attacks and it did have a reaction beggar and necropolis. It had margrave too, it had no other potion cards, but it did have maurader, and sage, soothsayer, fortune teller. Everyone else ignored the potions since golem was it, they also focused on just soothersayer, fortune teller and maurader, and didnít buy more than one each. Half the curses were gone. I had a couple of soothsayers and sages, a couple of maurders and a couple of margraves and had 2 golems half the provinces were gone I only had one. But one powerful turn. Thanks to golem necropolis first then golem, soothsayer, sage, then played another golem another soothsayer another sage. Sage gave me margrave. Played margrave, margrave game maurader, and used my last action with maurader. After that it was all over they so many curses and and victory cards they didnít have enough to buy a duchy. Played golem again times more throughout the game and was able to buy up the rest of the provinces and won. The only way to trash cards was rats and there quite a few rats gone. So they had a bunch of turns with victories, curses, ruins and rats. After that one awesome turn they started buying beggar but it was too late. I had bought beggar a couple of times prior to keep rats in check. And it helped me buy a golem once. One player said I hate golem I havenít been able to play a (bad word) turn in forever and then resigned. Thatís why Iím surprised you guys think golem is weak. However Iím sure you would think twice if you were on the receiving end of that game. Thatís the problem with random game your stuck with whatever you randomly get. However if you chose the cards you could make it balanced. They use to have a randomizer online that could make it balanced, problem was it never got updated so it didnít have anything past adventures.
« Last Edit: January 30, 2019, 11:27:39 am by ClouduHieh »
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GendoIkari

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Re: What are your most hated official cards?
« Reply #38 on: January 30, 2019, 11:30:35 am »
+3

If you donít like masquerade you should check out my snowshoes and firn village on my snowline thread, it makes masquerade more useful.

I doubt his problem is that it's not useful enough. Masquerade is super powerful.
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Screwyioux

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Re: What are your most hated official cards?
« Reply #39 on: January 30, 2019, 03:06:45 pm »
+1

Golem and familiar is insane too get tons of extra action and deal out a few curses to other players all in the same turn, sure scrying pool could do that but golem would give you extra actions throw in another golem and throw in another attack like torturer. At least scrying pools attack isnít as potent as other attacks. If you had no villages it would be pretty hard to play 2 torturers in a turn, but golem can help you play both in stride. Especially if you had more than one golem and more than one familiar. With that combo they would get 5 curses each in a turn, or 3 curses and one card left in their hand. Golem may be weaker on its own. But there have been times Iíve done more damage with golem than I ever did with scrying pool. Cause remember scrying pool doesnít guarantee that you get Actions...

A few reasons Golem is usually weak:

1. Cost. Golem is a very expensive card and usually overpriced for what it does. Any potion-cost card requires you to buy an otherwise useless stop card for $4 then line it up with enough money to buy the damn thing, that's a big ask early on when you're getting control of your deck and usually want a card like Golem.

2. Reliability. You're at the whimsy of whatever actions the Golem happens to pick up. Sometimes there's a non-terminal in there and you keep your turn going, other times....rip. Not to mention Golem hitting your mandatory trasher and forcing you to trash a good card.

So what's the purpose of the Golem? It's to help you play your other actions more often and function as a village. But if there's any other way to do that (other villages, drawing more cards, just getting more copies of the attack you're trying to play in the first place), you'll usually find that they're cheaper, faster to build and more effective.

Now if you already have the potion in your deck for some other reason, the Golem is a bit better of a prospect, but still often skippable for other, more important deck priorities.


Also, the reason Scrying Pool is insanely powerful has very little to do with the attack.
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Commodore Chuckles

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Re: What are your most hated official cards?
« Reply #40 on: January 30, 2019, 06:18:13 pm »
+1

The big problem with Golem is that it relies on other Action cards to actually do anything. The best way to make sure it's an effective "Village" is to have Villages for it to play... but then if you have those Villages why do you need the Golem? Its most useful trick is becoming a "Village" by hitting cantrips, but only a minority of boards will have cantrips and Golem as the only Village. And then you still run into the price and reliability issues. It's also worth noting that it's easy for it to trigger a bad shuffle.
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Screwyioux

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Re: What are your most hated official cards?
« Reply #41 on: January 31, 2019, 10:08:31 am »
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Not to mention how awkward Golem can be for a deck that draws itself.
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mail-mi

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Re: What are your most hated official cards?
« Reply #42 on: January 31, 2019, 11:40:15 am »
+1

I've found that Golem works well in games with no trashing or heavy junking (or both). It helps you to play your actions more often.
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Commodore Chuckles

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Re: What are your most hated official cards?
« Reply #43 on: January 31, 2019, 05:50:53 pm »
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Not to mention how awkward Golem can be for a deck that draws itself.

Well, in a Golem strategy Golem is the thing that's helping you draw your deck in the first place. It might be more accurate to say that the situations in which it's possible for Golem to draw your deck are also situations in which you can draw it without Golem.

I've found that Golem works well in games with no trashing or heavy junking (or both). It helps you to play your actions more often.

Yes, this is its primary use, and in this case it's relatively good. Except if the junk is Ruins, of course.
« Last Edit: January 31, 2019, 05:52:19 pm by Commodore Chuckles »
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ClouduHieh

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Re: What are your most hated official cards?
« Reply #44 on: February 08, 2019, 10:10:49 pm »
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So did you guys like my version of rebuild better? Or would you prefer it to stay the same with a higher cost like $7 or would you prefer it without the +1 Action? The point is would you like the card any better if it was changed. Or is just a waste of space in the box🙁

To try and make existing cards more enjoyable to play with is the real point of this thread. Obviously golem is fine the way it is. But I would like some ideas to make raze more enjoyable to play with, but still keeping it at $2.

As for the fool? Iím not sure how to make it any better, without removing lost in the woods.

As for scrying pool would replacing the +1 Action with +2 Cards make it better? And we could make it +2 Cards after the other function of the action. What do you guys think?
« Last Edit: February 08, 2019, 10:17:54 pm by ClouduHieh »
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