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[raerae]

Nope, I don't understand why you don't believe him. You're original argument seemed to center on the SK not being Yates and when I pointed out it's possible you just removed that from your argument and doubled down on him not being SK. So, which is it? And why?

[MiX]

Nope, I don't understand why you don't believe him. You're original argument seemed to center on the SK not being Yates and when I pointed out it's possible you just removed that from your argument and doubled down on him not being SK. So, which is it? And why?

Well, hmm, yeah, you're right, I was confusing there, mostly because I went back and forth on what guarantees ash's MQ. Okay, I'll explain.

If ash is SK!Yates, we already lost, so we can just remove that from the realm of possibilites. But he could still be SK, right? Well, the quote I mentioned has him forgetting that he's bulletproof, therefore he's not SK, which means he's MQ.

Confusing? Yeah. But I see no reason to think ash's SK instead of MQ here anyway, so that single quote's enough to continue my vote on him.

[raerae]

Nope, I don't understand why you don't believe him. You're original argument seemed to center on the SK not being Yates and when I pointed out it's possible you just removed that from your argument and doubled down on him not being SK. So, which is it? And why?

Well, hmm, yeah, you're right, I was confusing there, mostly because I went back and forth on what guarantees ash's MQ. Okay, I'll explain.

If ash is SK!Yates, we already lost, so we can just remove that from the realm of possibilites. But he could still be SK, right? Well, the quote I mentioned has him forgetting that he's bulletproof, therefore he's not SK, which means he's MQ.

Confusing? Yeah. But I see no reason to think ash's SK instead of MQ here anyway, so that single quote's enough to continue my vote on him.

There's no reason we lose with SK Yates, if anything the SK power more or less negate a one shot commute. Why do you think it's so powerful? And that quote seems like exactly what it is, SK can't be NK'd. Once again, I don't understand your argument. This is getting old.

[SpaceAnemone]

I think MiX has a point. In Ash's claim, he specifically asked us whether scum wouldn't just kill him because he's trying to get town to buy into the idea that he might consider kingmaking on the side of town.

More specifically, he referred to his "nighttime survival skills" as the reason why the Maquis wouldn't kill him in the night. That appears to be referring to Yates's ability as a commuter, whereas the SK should just know that they can never be killed at night because of the bulletproof. It's now possible that Ash will sidestep it by insisting that he meant the SK's nighttime survival skills, but it's also possible that if he's actually Maquis, he's trying to warn the SK off targeting him.

[raerae]

I think MiX has a point. In Ash's claim, he specifically asked us whether scum wouldn't just kill him because he's trying to get town to buy into the idea that he might consider kingmaking on the side of town.

More specifically, he referred to his "nighttime survival skills" as the reason why the Maquis wouldn't kill him in the night. That appears to be referring to Yates's ability as a commuter, whereas the SK should just know that they can never be killed at night because of the bulletproof. It's now possible that Ash will sidestep it by insisting that he meant the SK's nighttime survival skills, but it's also possible that if he's actually Maquis, he's trying to warn the SK off targeting him.

Didds does English, how did you interpret that, Professor?

[MiX]

Nope, I don't understand why you don't believe him. You're original argument seemed to center on the SK not being Yates and when I pointed out it's possible you just removed that from your argument and doubled down on him not being SK. So, which is it? And why?

Well, hmm, yeah, you're right, I was confusing there, mostly because I went back and forth on what guarantees ash's MQ. Okay, I'll explain.

If ash is SK!Yates, we already lost, so we can just remove that from the realm of possibilites. But he could still be SK, right? Well, the quote I mentioned has him forgetting that he's bulletproof, therefore he's not SK, which means he's MQ.

Confusing? Yeah. But I see no reason to think ash's SK instead of MQ here anyway, so that single quote's enough to continue my vote on him.

There's no reason we lose with SK Yates, if anything the SK power more or less negate a one shot commute. Why do you think it's so powerful? And that quote seems like exactly what it is, SK can't be NK'd. Once again, I don't understand your argument. This is getting old.

My argument for why ash isn't SK is essencially that quote plus his thinking that I'm MQ, which is obviously wrong. That and I don't see why the claim would come from SK more than MQ.

For why SK!Yates means a town loss, well, it all depends on Didds. If Didds is town, is Dax, and scum believe her, then town loses. The reason? Well, assuming we lynch MQ, N5 SK NKs (ha, that's a good letter combo) town, we wake up 2v1v1, no matter who we lynch, then N6 scum NKs the non-Didds: since that person isn't Yates, they die, so we lose. This is simply if Yates isn't town, being SK doesn't change anything. There's also the fact that Didds could clearly be lying about role or alignment, in which case we have higher chances of winning, however there's a way for scum to bypass it. I'm not saying what it is because it requires extreme coordination between both scum and full cooperation, which means there's a way they get it wrong (there's also a way they accidentally get it right). There's also the chance that Didds doublebluffs, makes scum believe she's not Dax, shoots her, and then she's Dax. MVP if that happens, would be hilarious, but again, scum can bypass that with weird coordination. All in all, Yates must be town for town to enter LyLo, that is, to win (I'm assuming LyLo is a win otherwise I would get too demoralized).

I think MiX has a point. In Ash's claim, he specifically asked us whether scum wouldn't just kill him because he's trying to get town to buy into the idea that he might consider kingmaking on the side of town.

More specifically, he referred to his "nighttime survival skills" as the reason why the Maquis wouldn't kill him in the night. That appears to be referring to Yates's ability as a commuter, whereas the SK should just know that they can never be killed at night because of the bulletproof. It's now possible that Ash will sidestep it by insisting that he meant the SK's nighttime survival skills, but it's also possible that if he's actually Maquis, he's trying to warn the SK off targeting him.

If he's MQ, SK knows that already, due to his claim. Otherwise, yes, yes, that's exactly my point, I love you Space. Also, Happy Birthday! In case the day ends earlier than expected and I don't get to say it.

[raerae]

I think MiX has a point. In Ash's claim, he specifically asked us whether scum wouldn't just kill him because he's trying to get town to buy into the idea that he might consider kingmaking on the side of town.

More specifically, he referred to his "nighttime survival skills" as the reason why the Maquis wouldn't kill him in the night. That appears to be referring to Yates's ability as a commuter, whereas the SK should just know that they can never be killed at night because of the bulletproof. It's now possible that Ash will sidestep it by insisting that he meant the SK's nighttime survival skills, but it's also possible that if he's actually Maquis, he's trying to warn the SK off targeting him.

Why does it refer more to the commuter night actions than SK?

[MiX]

I think MiX has a point. In Ash's claim, he specifically asked us whether scum wouldn't just kill him because he's trying to get town to buy into the idea that he might consider kingmaking on the side of town.

More specifically, he referred to his "nighttime survival skills" as the reason why the Maquis wouldn't kill him in the night. That appears to be referring to Yates's ability as a commuter, whereas the SK should just know that they can never be killed at night because of the bulletproof. It's now possible that Ash will sidestep it by insisting that he meant the SK's nighttime survival skills, but it's also possible that if he's actually Maquis, he's trying to warn the SK off targeting him.

Why does it refer more to the commuter night actions than SK?

Because it refers to both. A SK that has Yates looks at it and sees "sweet, cop protection", not one-shot bulletproof, yet when he said "nighttime survival skillS" (notice the "S"), he's counting both. This is because he's MQ, and as MQ he doesn't want to get NKd (his teammate already got NKd so he knows it can happen), which means he looks at the ability and sees, well, one-shot bulletproof, like town. But that functionality makes no sense as full-bulletproof SK. Thus, he's not SK.

There's also the fact that there's no reason to assume SK made this claim instead of MQ. Really, what makes him more SK than any other player right now? We know he's scum, but what else? I think MQ would absolutely claim SK here and pull the same gambit he is doing and I don't see why SK would have more of an incentive to do so (they would both do this). Given I was scumreading him as MQ, I don't see why the claim makes him SK.

[raerae]

And from your argument there's no reason to think MQ made it over SK. I really can't believe you DON'T believe him considering you've taken everybody else's claims at face value. That alone is enough to make me mistrustful of your assessment, especially since it so conveniently fits your already established view of a MQ Ash.

[raerae]

Also, that was directed at Space.

[MiX]

Also, that was directed at Space.

Aww, I had a response readied and everything! That actually seems to make as much sense directed at Space as it does at me.

[raerae]

Also, that was directed at Space.

Aww, I had a response readied and everything! That actually seems to make as much sense directed at Space as it does at me.

My original question was directed at Space, that's why I quoted them and then asked the question.  I know I said I wouldn't coach but hell if I can't stop myself anymore.  You realize that I ask questions to specific people to gauge their responses and see where they fall, right?  When you pop in to answer every question I pose to everybody else it's impossible for me to a grasp on them, impossible for me to see you as town since you're refusing to let me get my own reads, and it makes it unbelievably easy for somebody to buddy you while showing no original thought?  "Oh, MiX has a point here..."  Sometimes you just have to tone it down and wait for somebody else to respond first.

[MiX]

Also, that was directed at Space.

Aww, I had a response readied and everything! That actually seems to make as much sense directed at Space as it does at me.

My original question was directed at Space, that's why I quoted them and then asked the question.  I know I said I wouldn't coach but hell if I can't stop myself anymore.  You realize that I ask questions to specific people to gauge their responses and see where they fall, right?  When you pop in to answer every question I pose to everybody else it's impossible for me to a grasp on them, impossible for me to see you as town since you're refusing to let me get my own reads, and it makes it unbelievably easy for somebody to buddy you while showing no original thought?  "Oh, MiX has a point here..."  Sometimes you just have to tone it down and wait for somebody else to respond first.

I'm sorry, I thought you wanted to know why we're still voting for ash...I believe lynching him today is more important than getting reads, but I suppose we can do both...also, feel free to coach, I don't mind. I'll stay in the backlines then, my vote is placed, I've stated my reasons, doubt I'll change it today-

[raerae]

Also, that was directed at Space.

Aww, I had a response readied and everything! That actually seems to make as much sense directed at Space as it does at me.

My original question was directed at Space, that's why I quoted them and then asked the question.  I know I said I wouldn't coach but hell if I can't stop myself anymore.  You realize that I ask questions to specific people to gauge their responses and see where they fall, right?  When you pop in to answer every question I pose to everybody else it's impossible for me to a grasp on them, impossible for me to see you as town since you're refusing to let me get my own reads, and it makes it unbelievably easy for somebody to buddy you while showing no original thought?  "Oh, MiX has a point here..."  Sometimes you just have to tone it down and wait for somebody else to respond first.

I'm sorry, I thought you wanted to know why we're still voting for ash...I believe lynching him today is more important than getting reads, but I suppose we can do both...also, feel free to coach, I don't mind. I'll stay in the backlines then, my vote is placed, I've stated my reasons, doubt I'll change it today-

I'm not saying don't participate just let somebody else do it first once in a while.  Also, clearly I need reads today since Ash isn't town.  I had Space pegged as the SK too so now my applecart has been all sorts of upset.  If Ash is MQ, who is the other one?  And is there any harm is allowing Ash to live today?  Whether he's MQ or SK he'll be alive tomorrow and we'll have more dead people information.  I don't know whether I believe him or not but I know that phrasing thing isn't enough for me to risk lynching the SK.

[WestCoastDidds]

Great googly moogly! So much going on!

I’m on a flight for the next three hours. I’d like to know what ADK thinks of this latest turn of events.

Rae, I think you and I are town. Who’s our third?

Joth, when is the deadline?

[raerae]

Great googly moogly! So much going on!

I’m on a flight for the next three hours. I’d like to know what ADK thinks of this latest turn of events.

Rae, I think you and I are town. Who’s our third?

Joth, when is the deadline?

I have a suspicion and I don't like it.  But, I mean, I've been wrong about everything else so why not.

[SpaceAnemone]

And from your argument there's no reason to think MQ made it over SK. I really can't believe you DON'T believe him considering you've taken everybody else's claims at face value. That alone is enough to make me mistrustful of your assessment, especially since it so conveniently fits your already established view of a MQ Ash.

Is this targeted at me, or at MIX?

If me, could you please clarify what the "it" in the first sentence is? I think you're referring to the "case" that Maquis!Ash would say the thing about nighttime protection that SK!Ash would not, but then I'm confused as to why the rest doesn't follow for you, so it would be helpful to me if you could break it down a little.

[SpaceAnemone]

Rae, I think you and I are town. Who’s our third?

It me! Though I think it's more likely that one of you and raerae is non-town than that MiX is. If it's you (WCD) then you probably get the win anyway, though...

[WestCoastDidds]

So, ADK is scum either way?

[raerae]

And from your argument there's no reason to think MQ made it over SK. I really can't believe you DON'T believe him considering you've taken everybody else's claims at face value. That alone is enough to make me mistrustful of your assessment, especially since it so conveniently fits your already established view of a MQ Ash.

Is this targeted at me, or at MIX?

If me, could you please clarify what the "it" in the first sentence is? I think you're referring to the "case" that Maquis!Ash would say the thing about nighttime protection that SK!Ash would not, but then I'm confused as to why the rest doesn't follow for you, so it would be helpful to me if you could break it down a little.

That was at MiX, bolded below.  I don't understand why you both think that him saying nighttime actions refers specifically to the Commuter actions and not the SK, they both have night actions.  But if that's the entirety of your argument then there's no reason for you to try to explain it further.

I think MiX has a point. In Ash's claim, he specifically asked us whether scum wouldn't just kill him because he's trying to get town to buy into the idea that he might consider kingmaking on the side of town.

More specifically, he referred to his "nighttime survival skills" as the reason why the Maquis wouldn't kill him in the night. That appears to be referring to Yates's ability as a commuter, whereas the SK should just know that they can never be killed at night because of the bulletproof. It's now possible that Ash will sidestep it by insisting that he meant the SK's nighttime survival skills, but it's also possible that if he's actually Maquis, he's trying to warn the SK off targeting him.

Why does it refer more to the commuter night actions than SK?

Because it refers to both. A SK that has Yates looks at it and sees "sweet, cop protection", not one-shot bulletproof, yet when he said "nighttime survival skillS" (notice the "S"), he's counting both. This is because he's MQ, and as MQ he doesn't want to get NKd (his teammate already got NKd so he knows it can happen), which means he looks at the ability and sees, well, one-shot bulletproof, like town. But that functionality makes no sense as full-bulletproof SK. Thus, he's not SK.

There's also the fact that there's no reason to assume SK made this claim instead of MQ. Really, what makes him more SK than any other player right now? We know he's scum, but what else? I think MQ would absolutely claim SK here and pull the same gambit he is doing and I don't see why SK would have more of an incentive to do so (they would both do this). Given I was scumreading him as MQ, I don't see why the claim makes him SK.

[raerae]

So, ADK is scum either way?

Seems like it to me.

[WestCoastDidds]

So, ADK is scum either way?

Seems like it to me.

Space, you agree?

[ashersky]

Ash, who is MQ?

MiX + SA if I had to say right now from the gut. I know there are a few reasons out there for why it is unlikely, but all things are doable.

You could swap in any other player for SA and I’d not be surprised.

[raerae]

@Ash, why'd you kill shraeye?

[MiX]

Ash, who is MQ?

MiX + SA if I had to say right now from the gut. I know there are a few reasons out there for why it is unlikely, but all things are doable.

You could swap in any other player for SA and I’d not be surprised.

Does everyone love to forget Space was copped N1? How in any way would that happen when Space is MQ?