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Author Topic: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (GAME OVER, Maquis win!)  (Read 47719 times)

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MiX

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Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (Day 4)
« Reply #2375 on: March 27, 2019, 01:02:40 pm »

The joke here is that we were right, you were wrong, yet you want to play the "I told you so" card. So, tell me, when were you right and can you provide quotes of when you said that?

EFHW, I'm touched. But I still think you're scum. Alas, you're probably going to die tonight...so I shouldn't bother.
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UmbrageOfSnow

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Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (Day 4)
« Reply #2376 on: March 27, 2019, 01:03:20 pm »

I would like UoS to clarify some things.

1st you soft-claimed Garak.
Then you claimed O'Brian.
Then you said it was a mistake for me to claim.

Why did you soft-claim in the first place? And why Garak? Did you realize that's how your post sounded? You say my claim was a mistake, but it has actually been very helpful to the POE today. You can have your opinion, of course, but I'm confused why you think that when you were the one to revive the claiming topic.

You said you were trying to protect Worf. How? Don't you think it was already pretty obvious I was Worf?

Why don't you think your role is valuable? Are you convinced there is no MU and if so, when did you decide that? Also, did you not see that your results made faust IC?

I was trying to screw with people trying to POE Garak, obviously. I do think it was a mistake for you to claim, as I've already explained at length. I certainly didn't force anyone to claim, and when I actually claim I claim explicitly so there's no reason that should have made you feel pressured to claim. I explicitly didn't want you to claim and that was the whole point of a lot of what I was doing. It's better for me to be the NK than you here.

It does at least save me trying to find a way to soft my 3 innocents, which I'd have had to do before the end of the day otherwise.

I'm reasonably convinced there is not MU, although it's possible, and I was convinced of that when I got another negative result and neither NK was on MU.

I think faust was pretty damn IC without my claim anyway. I wouldn't have wanted to lynch him today even without my result if you'd claimed your result, and really I'd been coming around on his towniness over the night anyway.
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UmbrageOfSnow

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Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (Day 4)
« Reply #2377 on: March 27, 2019, 01:03:59 pm »

The joke here is that we were right, you were wrong, yet you want to play the "I told you so" card. So, tell me, when were you right and can you provide quotes of when you said that?

EFHW, I'm touched. But I still think you're scum. Alas, you're probably going to die tonight...so I shouldn't bother.

My first response to this violates the civility pledge, so I'm out for a few hours.
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MiX

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Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (Day 4)
« Reply #2378 on: March 27, 2019, 01:07:53 pm »

The joke here is that we were right, you were wrong, yet you want to play the "I told you so" card. So, tell me, when were you right and can you provide quotes of when you said that?

EFHW, I'm touched. But I still think you're scum. Alas, you're probably going to die tonight...so I shouldn't bother.

My first response to this violates the civility pledge, so I'm out for a few hours.

Outch, was I too agressive? I genually don't remember proof of you being right, but pretty much all I remember from you is "faust is scum!" so that must be an unfair assertion. I suppose you think you're much more correct than I thought, so I think I'll have enough evidence of that when rereading you. Well, time for me to do some quality rereading!
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faust

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Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (Day 4)
« Reply #2379 on: March 27, 2019, 01:46:32 pm »

I think a few Itoldyousos are warranted when everyone spends the entire game ignoring me and blindly sheeping faust while multiple people lament the impossibility of ever lynching scum and want to claim because how could we ever proceed with scumhunting without just lynching people based on claims?

And now everyone has dropped that which is on one hand a return to sanity but why were they saying that stuff in the first place?

I really deeply want faust to be scum here, I know he can
Well I think the claims we have are very useful. What do your scumreads look like by the way?
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Uncleeurope

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Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (Day 4)
« Reply #2380 on: March 27, 2019, 02:02:13 pm »

Honestly, that was a lot of pages for the raerae/mix thing.  I skimmed most of it.  I prefer to lynch there to make it stop.

There should be no more claims, unless forced at L-1. Role usefulness comes with anonymity.

Everyone is still scummy. What the heck.

This is a scummy post.
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Uncleeurope Eddie

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Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (Day 4)
« Reply #2381 on: March 27, 2019, 02:03:21 pm »

Honestly, that was a lot of pages for the raerae/mix thing.  I skimmed most of it.  I prefer to lynch there to make it stop.

There should be no more claims, unless forced at L-1. Role usefulness comes with anonymity.

Everyone is still scummy. What the heck.

This is a scummy post.

Why?
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MiX

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Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (Day 4)
« Reply #2382 on: March 27, 2019, 02:11:00 pm »

Partly we just finished a game as scum together and I kind of think if Awaclus was scum here he might play along or dismiss me differently to get me to townread him. There's also something in his tone. It's hard to explain, I'm not certain I'm the Awaclus-whisperer but I'm lean-town on him here.

Thar be scum in these here players.

This faust wagon happened really fast and I'm not super into it.
Hard no on that bs faust wagon. What in the actual hell??
faust wagon materializing out of nowhere stinks real bad.
The faust wagon is stinking up the joint!

And then he mentions he was townreading E but I don't actually see that explicitly said in D3. But I do in the other days, so okay. I guess Snow's more right throughout the game than I thought.
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Uncleeurope

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Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (Day 4)
« Reply #2383 on: March 27, 2019, 02:19:10 pm »

Honestly, that was a lot of pages for the raerae/mix thing.  I skimmed most of it.  I prefer to lynch there to make it stop.

There should be no more claims, unless forced at L-1. Role usefulness comes with anonymity.

Everyone is still scummy. What the heck.

This is a scummy post.

Why?

Do you find the thing townie?

Itís saying nothing other than soft pushing yourself and a player you believe to be town. Setting up arbitrary lynching rules like that severely hampers towns ability to find scum properly. Plus it just kind of says everyone is scummy with a shrug.


Basically, Ash has been doing everything you are scumreading me for, acusing everyone, and messing with VCA, he isnít on ANY VCA because he never votes.

He just hammers.

I am trying to generate reactions and partner reads of protection with my votes.

And my previous floundering about claiming was to see if anyone was pro-claiming at this point, something that would have set my alarm bells off as being scummy. (Read: it was a test)
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Uncleeurope Eddie

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Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (Day 4)
« Reply #2384 on: March 27, 2019, 02:24:41 pm »

Honestly, that was a lot of pages for the raerae/mix thing.  I skimmed most of it.  I prefer to lynch there to make it stop.

There should be no more claims, unless forced at L-1. Role usefulness comes with anonymity.

Everyone is still scummy. What the heck.

This is a scummy post.

Why?

Do you find the thing townie?

Itís saying nothing other than soft pushing yourself and a player you believe to be town. Setting up arbitrary lynching rules like that severely hampers towns ability to find scum properly. Plus it just kind of says everyone is scummy with a shrug.


Basically, Ash has been doing everything you are scumreading me for, acusing everyone, and messing with VCA, he isnít on ANY VCA because he never votes.

He just hammers.

I am trying to generate reactions and partner reads of protection with my votes.

And my previous floundering about claiming was to see if anyone was pro-claiming at this point, something that would have set my alarm bells off as being scummy. (Read: it was a test)

I find it incredibly scummy. Nice "test"...I don't buy it. You're good, you've successfully twisted my reads, I see an ash/snow team more likely now. Well done. Now bus your partner and get it over with.
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Uncleeurope

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Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (Day 4)
« Reply #2385 on: March 27, 2019, 02:45:55 pm »

Nice "test"...I don't buy it.

Yeah, well, I have the ability to play this game as scum without saying overtly scummy things. And as Snow would attest (if he's feeling helpful), I like testing people on topics as town.

Well done. Now bus your partner and get it over with.

Gladly.
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Uncleeurope Eddie

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Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (Day 4)
« Reply #2386 on: March 27, 2019, 03:21:35 pm »

Nice "test"...I don't buy it.

Yeah, well, I have the ability to play this game as scum without saying overtly scummy things. And as Snow would attest (if he's feeling helpful), I like testing people on topics as town.

Agreed, that was a stupid thing to say. But it was a very odd trap, I don't think it would ever work.

Well done. Now bus your partner and get it over with.

Gladly.

But you're not voting for Didds...
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Uncleeurope

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Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (Day 4)
« Reply #2387 on: March 27, 2019, 03:41:14 pm »

Oh, sorry, assumed you were talking about Ash, since that was who I was pushing to lynch in that post...
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Uncleeurope Eddie

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Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (Day 4)
« Reply #2388 on: March 27, 2019, 03:42:49 pm »

Oh, sorry, assumed you were talking about Ash, since that was who I was pushing to lynch in that post...

If you were already bussing your partner I wouldn't have to ask you to do such a thing  :P  But seriously that whole exchange made you a tiny bit townier and I'm scumreading you for it. Yeah...
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Uncleeurope

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Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (Day 4)
« Reply #2389 on: March 27, 2019, 03:55:10 pm »

Oh, sorry, assumed you were talking about Ash, since that was who I was pushing to lynch in that post...

If you were already bussing your partner I wouldn't have to ask you to do such a thing  :P  But seriously that whole exchange made you a tiny bit townier and I'm scumreading you for it. Yeah...

As you well should, If I am acting townie, that probably means I am scum. You can only trust me if I'm scum.
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Uncleeurope Eddie

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Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (Day 4)
« Reply #2390 on: March 27, 2019, 03:56:46 pm »

faust, are you going to comment on the MiX thing since your insistence is the only reason I did that?
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MiX

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Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (Day 4)
« Reply #2391 on: March 27, 2019, 03:59:15 pm »

Oh, sorry, assumed you were talking about Ash, since that was who I was pushing to lynch in that post...

If you were already bussing your partner I wouldn't have to ask you to do such a thing  :P  But seriously that whole exchange made you a tiny bit townier and I'm scumreading you for it. Yeah...

As you well should, If I am acting townie, that probably means I am scum. You can only trust me if I'm scum.

You're correct, which means you're towny, which means you're scum, which means you're lying, which means you're scummy, which means you're town. Unvobe: Eddie

faust, are you going to comment on the MiX thing since your insistence is the only reason I did that?

At the risk of reading too much into this, why are you asking the IC to do things? I think a simple reminder's all you needed to do, but maybe that's what a simple reminder is.
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MiX

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Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (Day 4)
« Reply #2392 on: March 27, 2019, 04:17:47 pm »

DISCLAIMER: THIS IS ALL ABOUT HUNTING MAQUIS AND NOT SCUM IN GENERAL. BE WARNED.

Okay, here's my attempt at throwing everything I'm using and thinking about to see if others can reach the same conclusions as me. Obviously, I'm assuming I'm town for all of these, so if you replace me with whoever it is you are you'll obtain different information, hopefully they'll converge somewhere. So!

First, the D1 e wagon, essencially boils down to this (green means not Maquis)

2.71828..... (5): mcmcsalot, EFHW, Robz888, Awaclus, WestCoastDidds

What I've taken from this is that Didds is likely scum. I've been discarding this option because it restricts a lot and Didds was only on it half the time, which diminishes how important this is. But it still exists, so it has to be mentioned. Then the LL(EFHW) wagon, which culminates in:

EFHW (6): Uncleeurope, MiX, WestCoastDidds, UmbrageofSnow, shraeye, Glooble

Because I'm town, all I can conclude from this is that I don't think Didds and Snow are Maquisbuddies with shraeye. Maybe there's more things you can say about this wagon that rule out some other scumteams with me on it, but I don't see it. The Uncle vote here's also essencially pointless, since I don't think Maquis would necessarily put 2+ buddies or even 2-. If you think otherwise, state so, but that's all I have to say about this. Now comes Robz's wagon, of course:

Robz888 (10): 2.71828....., WestCoastDidds, UmbrageofSnow, SpaceAnemone, chickenwarlord, DatSwan, Awaclus, Glooble, Jimmmmm, ashersky

From this I took something that will probably be controversial: Didds or Snow is Maquis. I removed ash from the wagon analysis because, as I've said D2, I think D1 wagons have much more information at the early stages and the rest of the votes (all the way from Awaclus, maybe even Swan) were just from people looking to lynch anyone. So, Didds or Snow are Maquis, maybe just ash but I doubt it, I think scum would love to be on the Robz wagon because e was pretty towny and it's incredibly easy to jump on it, as I've said in D2, this wagon's been talked about already. Onto D2! From now on I'm only using end of day wagons, if anyone feels like an intermediate wagon has some relevance, they should speak up NOW. Caps for emphasis.

MiX (4): raerae, ashersky, shraeye, WestCoastDidds

What a beautiful wagon. There's so much you can pull from it, like, I think there's two Maquis (counting shraeye) in it, but I'm not really using it to make scumteams, maybe I should? The Very Important Information to pull from this is, really, that Didds and ash aren't scum together. I sincerily doubt shraeye and Didds would hop on my wagon as fast as they did (reminder that their votes were after the fast faust wagon stunt in D2) with a scumbuddy on board, I just don't see it happening. It also removes a Didds/raerae scumteam and, to some extent, an ash/raerae scumteam as well, but I believe those are unlikely anyway. Then there's the fact that I could be Maquis, in which case I think it continues to remove a scumteam, in this case Didds/MiX (and maybe ash/MiX), but that's irrelevent to me. With D2 wagons comes the amazing Awaclus wagon:

Awaclus (8): faust, Glooble, DatSwan, chickenwarlord, Uncleeurope, MiX, SpaceAnemone, 2.71828.....

He was right, his wagon isn't uninformative. This is essencially a big red flag saying that Uncle is scum, or at least that either me or Uncle is scum. This is such a poweful tool for PoE that I have to remove it in other to see anything other than "Uncle is conf!scum". For completion's sake, Snow was on faust, not sure what to make of it. To D3!

2.71828..... (7): SpaceAnemone, MiX, faust, EFHW, chickenwarlord, UncleEurope, ashersky
chickenwarlord (3): DatSwan, 2.71828....., WestCoastDidds
MiX (2): raerae, UmbrageOfSnow

I think it was...snow? that said my wagon was also interesting, so all three are useful. I was mostly using the first one, that says that there's probably scum in (MiX/Uncle/ash), but I think it also says there's probably scum in (Didds/Snow/raerae), I think this is a day where scum would split? Especially snow, he essencially has a free pass to townread e and he was inactive, which means I believe that the other scum would be on wagon. Obviously, I'm using it to say that a Snow/Uncle Maquis team is most likely, but what matters is where it comes from.


I think it's coherent to say that the teams are either Uncle/Didds or Uncle/Snow based on this, because it's what I'm extrapolating from all of this, but I think, more than ever, I need everyone's opinion on this. Especially what each maybe-Maquis has to say with a different PoE.

TL;DR: takeaway points from each wagon post, in order: Didds gains scumpoints, Didds/Snow isn't possible, Didds or Snow are Maquis, Didds/ash isn't possible, Uncle is scum(my), Uncle or ash are Maquis; all of this from my PoV, I want feedback on opinions based on other's PoEs. For me it points to Uncle/Didds or Uncle/Snow, therefore Uncle is scum.

I'm going to post my D2 analysis of D1's wagons and will compare to this. Later, hopefully in a few minutes but no promises.
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Uncleeurope

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Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (Day 4)
« Reply #2393 on: March 27, 2019, 04:23:22 pm »

What about Ash Snow?
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Uncleeurope Eddie

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Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (Day 4)
« Reply #2394 on: March 27, 2019, 04:26:18 pm »

I am becoming increasingly aware of Ash/MiX by the way

Havenít brought it up because Iíve mainly been talking to MiX, but itís a thing happening in my head, so there ya go.
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Uncleeurope Eddie

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Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (Day 4)
« Reply #2395 on: March 27, 2019, 04:29:36 pm »

I am becoming increasingly aware of Ash/MiX by the way

Havenít brought it up because Iíve mainly been talking to MiX, but itís a thing happening in my head, so there ya go.

Mainly because MiX removes Ash from a wagon e was on just for hammering it.

And loads of pairings MiX has been throwing out during this whole process have included Ash but I donít remember him voting Ash once.
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Uncleeurope Eddie

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Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (Day 4)
« Reply #2396 on: March 27, 2019, 04:30:32 pm »

What about Ash Snow?

Ash wasn't on the Awaclus wagon. But you're right, this the third scumteam I'm considering. Given that you're not voting for Snow, I think this isn't possible. But it's more of a gut than anything.

I am becoming increasingly aware of Ash/MiX by the way

Havenít brought it up because Iíve mainly been talking to MiX, but itís a thing happening in my head, so there ya go.

Pretty sure your vote on ash made this incredibly obvious. But no, this makes no sense. However you're right that my VCA points to that, if you think that both me and ash would hammer together, just reread end of D1. I also remember snow saying that we can't be a scumteam D1, but I have no intention to defend ash. Do you want me to quote the snow post I'm talking about?
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MiX

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Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (Day 4)
« Reply #2397 on: March 27, 2019, 04:33:13 pm »

I am becoming increasingly aware of Ash/MiX by the way

Havenít brought it up because Iíve mainly been talking to MiX, but itís a thing happening in my head, so there ya go.

Mainly because MiX removes Ash from a wagon e was on just for hammering it.

And loads of pairings MiX has been throwing out during this whole process have included Ash but I donít remember him voting Ash once.

Ash is the townier of all pairs with him. Also, I wouldn't be that obvious about the hammer thing if he was my scumbuddy. WIFOM!
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Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (Day 4)
« Reply #2398 on: March 27, 2019, 04:33:39 pm »

Remembering another player eliminating scum teams is a whole lot easier when you know thy are wrong.

It stuck in my head for days that Faust eliminates our exact scum config in a post, and I also wanted to point at that regularly. Doesnít make Snow right, though.
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Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (Day 4)
« Reply #2399 on: March 27, 2019, 04:34:09 pm »

Remembering another player eliminating scum teams is a whole lot easier when you know thy are wrong.

It stuck in my head for days that Faust eliminates our exact scum config in a post, and I also wanted to point at that regularly. Doesnít make Snow right, though.

Speaking of last game of that wasnít clear.
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