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Author Topic: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (GAME OVER, Maquis win!)  (Read 20837 times)

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UmbrageOfSnow

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Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (Day 4)
« Reply #2025 on: March 23, 2019, 08:46:25 pm »

Also, seriously raerae, why do we need to claim to move the day forward? Like we've had other days in the game where we lynched people without massclaiming haven't we?
Yep. Those have gone splendidly.

I was townreading Awaclus and e, the problem is just that you guys keep ignoring me. How does claiming help unless I'm Kai Winn?
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UmbrageOfSnow

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Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (Day 4)
« Reply #2026 on: March 23, 2019, 08:57:01 pm »

I think it needs to be full mass claim or no claims (unless someone has a need).  Lynching based on rolled role is dumb. There is no scumhunting involved. The only exception to that is roles that affect lylo voting such as Hated.
That's pretty much what I'm saying. I keep thinking there's some utility to keeping Dax and Yates unclaimed with the hope of one of them being NKed but once we have a few claims anyway the unambiguous cop results are probably worth more.
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SpaceAnemone

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Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (Day 4)
« Reply #2027 on: March 23, 2019, 08:58:00 pm »

Essencially, arishipshape stayed long enough for his vote to matter and then left whereas Didds went there and immediatly left, adding literally zero pressure. I don't see why she would be a part of any analysis over the E wagon, the other 5 stayed much longer.

I haven't followed the stuff about airshipshape because you seem to be talking about a different game I haven't read.

However, I do have numbers for this current game.

The at-least-4-votes-on-e wagon ran from #473 to #643, or 160 posts.

Within that, WCD was on the tail from #482 to #561, which is 79 posts, so more or less 50% of the wagon.

So I definitely don't think that's "literally zero pressure".. I just had a greater degree of certainty earlier in the game that it would end up being e or EFHW. As it is, EFHW's play so far in D4 seems towny enough. The fact that WCD is VLA makes it a little hard to do any direct comparison.

PPE 6+ because I got distracted.
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SpaceAnemone

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Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (Day 4)
« Reply #2028 on: March 23, 2019, 09:00:15 pm »

If Hated is going to matter, town Hated will claim in time to rectify it and scum Hated might not but will be in a pickle come endgame anyway.

Isn't Eddie the hated one? He claimed back in D1.

In the unclaimed camp, I think we have one loved person, one double-voter, and one deathproof person who might also mess with town lynches in various ways.
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raerae

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Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (Day 4)
« Reply #2029 on: March 23, 2019, 09:15:54 pm »

Rae, when did I say lynching MiX was bad?  Never said that, no real issues with it.

Let's do it! 
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SpaceAnemone

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Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (Day 4)
« Reply #2030 on: March 23, 2019, 09:18:49 pm »

That town!LR plan doesn't work because it makes the cop useless, so no point in protecting them.

How pray tell would protecting a cop render them useless?  Bus drivers are roleblockers.
Lightning rod would redirect their investigation from their target to the LR. Bus driving could work, at the risk of hitting someone else valuable like town!Morn or the other cop.

That is correct. I actually didnít see that you put LR there responding to me saying Garak should Bus. Thatís quite the sleight of hand there.

You said Gafak is scummy for not LRing. I disagree and say they should not LR and should bus to protect cop. Then you respond to my direct response to you with a misdirect?  Why?

So, to clarify here: thank you for pointing out a fault in your own thinking and not mine.

Interesting.. I'd missed this subtlety when EFHW was arguing that Garak should claim, too.

Is it better for town!Garak to bus-drive, thus having a small chance of protecting an outed role by diverting one of two possible NKs, or to use LR and therefore probably save two other PRs from NKs, giving a likely net gain of townie? I guess Garak won't have known that both NKs would fall on townies so often instead of non-town factions hitting each other. I think it's not as clear-cut as what seemed to be presented in-thread earlier, but I also think it's not clear that Ash's suggestion of saving the shot for use as bus-driving is inherently better.

Having said that, I think that the discussion so far in D4 framing the lack of Garack-reveal as anti-town means a town!Garak should have felt a lot of pressure to claim.
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EFHW

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Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (Day 4)
« Reply #2031 on: March 23, 2019, 09:19:39 pm »

When does Garak choose? I assumed they had to choose at N0.
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EFHW

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Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (Day 4)
« Reply #2032 on: March 23, 2019, 09:20:54 pm »

That town!LR plan doesn't work because it makes the cop useless, so no point in protecting them.

How pray tell would protecting a cop render them useless?  Bus drivers are roleblockers.
Lightning rod would redirect their investigation from their target to the LR. Bus driving could work, at the risk of hitting someone else valuable like town!Morn or the other cop.

That is correct. I actually didnít see that you put LR there responding to me saying Garak should Bus. Thatís quite the sleight of hand there.

You said Gafak is scummy for not LRing. I disagree and say they should not LR and should bus to protect cop. Then you respond to my direct response to you with a misdirect?  Why?

So, to clarify here: thank you for pointing out a fault in your own thinking and not mine.
I would apologize for misreading you if I wasn't so irked by the tone of your post.
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EFHW

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Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (Day 4)
« Reply #2033 on: March 23, 2019, 09:23:52 pm »

Dear mods, when does Garak choose between Lightning Rod and Bus Driver?
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EFHW

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Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (Day 4)
« Reply #2034 on: March 23, 2019, 09:32:42 pm »

And what is the downside of Town!Garak claiming? If they can convince us they are town, they can still do their thing tonight. I don't think most town!Garaks would let fear of being lynched keep them from claiming. Could be wrong.
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EFHW

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Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (Day 4)
« Reply #2035 on: March 23, 2019, 09:39:15 pm »

A completely different tack would be to look for the SK, in case there is one. Finding them would reduce the nk's to at most 1 per night.
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raerae

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Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (Day 4)
« Reply #2036 on: March 23, 2019, 09:43:23 pm »

A completely different tack would be to look for the SK, in case there is one. Finding them would reduce the nk's to at most 1 per night.

That would be nice but they leave no trail.  We could just lynch MiX.  Unless you're town reading him?
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EFHW

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Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (Day 4)
« Reply #2037 on: March 23, 2019, 09:57:13 pm »

A completely different tack would be to look for the SK, in case there is one. Finding them would reduce the nk's to at most 1 per night.

That would be nice but they leave no trail.  We could just lynch MiX.  Unless you're town reading him?
No, I'm SK reading him actually. Him or Eddie.
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raerae

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Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (Day 4)
« Reply #2038 on: March 23, 2019, 09:59:50 pm »

A completely different tack would be to look for the SK, in case there is one. Finding them would reduce the nk's to at most 1 per night.

That would be nice but they leave no trail.  We could just lynch MiX.  Unless you're town reading him?
No, I'm SK reading him actually. Him or Eddie.

So you don't believe there are two teams?  (sorry if you covered this in stats class, I just really can't follow that, math has always been intimidating and it's hard to rewire your brain, ya know?)
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EFHW

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Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (Day 4)
« Reply #2039 on: March 23, 2019, 10:06:20 pm »

A completely different tack would be to look for the SK, in case there is one. Finding them would reduce the nk's to at most 1 per night.

That would be nice but they leave no trail.  We could just lynch MiX.  Unless you're town reading him?
No, I'm SK reading him actually. Him or Eddie.

So you don't believe there are two teams?  (sorry if you covered this in stats class, I just really can't follow that, math has always been intimidating and it's hard to rewire your brain, ya know?)
It is technically still possible that there are two teams. My feeling, though, is that we have SK/Maquis.
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raerae

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Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (Day 4)
« Reply #2040 on: March 23, 2019, 10:19:38 pm »

Also, seriously raerae, why do we need to claim to move the day forward? Like we've had other days in the game where we lynched people without massclaiming haven't we?
Yep. Those have gone splendidly.

I was townreading Awaclus and e, the problem is just that you guys keep ignoring me. How does claiming help unless I'm Kai Winn?

Soooooo...how you feel about MiX?
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ashersky

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Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (Day 4)
« Reply #2041 on: March 24, 2019, 12:11:24 am »

That town!LR plan doesn't work because it makes the cop useless, so no point in protecting them.

How pray tell would protecting a cop render them useless?  Bus drivers are roleblockers.
Lightning rod would redirect their investigation from their target to the LR. Bus driving could work, at the risk of hitting someone else valuable like town!Morn or the other cop.

That is correct. I actually didnít see that you put LR there responding to me saying Garak should Bus. Thatís quite the sleight of hand there.

You said Gafak is scummy for not LRing. I disagree and say they should not LR and should bus to protect cop. Then you respond to my direct response to you with a misdirect?  Why?

So, to clarify here: thank you for pointing out a fault in your own thinking and not mine.

Interesting.. I'd missed this subtlety when EFHW was arguing that Garak should claim, too.

Is it better for town!Garak to bus-drive, thus having a small chance of protecting an outed role by diverting one of two possible NKs, or to use LR and therefore probably save two other PRs from NKs, giving a likely net gain of townie? I guess Garak won't have known that both NKs would fall on townies so often instead of non-town factions hitting each other. I think it's not as clear-cut as what seemed to be presented in-thread earlier, but I also think it's not clear that Ash's suggestion of saving the shot for use as bus-driving is inherently better.

Having said that, I think that the discussion so far in D4 framing the lack of Garack-reveal as anti-town means a town!Garak should have felt a lot of pressure to claim.

I appreciate your thoughtfulness here.

It donít think there is ever a perfectly right answer to these types of debates. I feel that bussing a claimed cop allows for one night of follow the cop, which is very strong. That other kills may fall on scum is a bonus.

As for pressure to claim, thatís going to depend on the player. Like, Faust or myself basically never feel pressure; a newer player might have cracked right away.
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f.ds Mafia Board Moderator

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ashersky

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Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (Day 4)
« Reply #2042 on: March 24, 2019, 12:12:05 am »

A completely different tack would be to look for the SK, in case there is one. Finding them would reduce the nk's to at most 1 per night.

That would be nice but they leave no trail.  We could just lynch MiX.  Unless you're town reading him?

I donít think even MiX is townreading MiX.
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Uncleeurope

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Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (Day 4)
« Reply #2043 on: March 24, 2019, 12:15:01 am »

A completely different tack would be to look for the SK, in case there is one. Finding them would reduce the nk's to at most 1 per night.

That would be nice but they leave no trail.  We could just lynch MiX.  Unless you're town reading him?

I donít think even MiX is townreading MiX.

Bahahaha

Thatís a sig if Iíve ever seen one.
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Uncleeurope Eddie

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Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (Day 4)
« Reply #2044 on: March 24, 2019, 12:15:42 am »

A completely different tack would be to look for the SK, in case there is one. Finding them would reduce the nk's to at most 1 per night.

That would be nice but they leave no trail.  We could just lynch MiX.  Unless you're town reading him?
No, I'm SK reading him actually. Him or Eddie.

We are playing fairly differently, interested in the connection there.
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Uncleeurope Eddie

raerae

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Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (Day 4)
« Reply #2045 on: March 24, 2019, 12:24:20 am »

A completely different tack would be to look for the SK, in case there is one. Finding them would reduce the nk's to at most 1 per night.

That would be nice but they leave no trail.  We could just lynch MiX.  Unless you're town reading him?

I donít think even MiX is townreading MiX.

Which begs the question of why his lynch has never gone through. 
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Uncleeurope

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Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (Day 4)
« Reply #2046 on: March 24, 2019, 12:34:22 am »

Because it's MiX, and we are fresh out of a game where he did this exact stuff as town and got killed for it. (And he is an unlikely shraeye partner)
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Uncleeurope Eddie

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Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (Day 4)
« Reply #2047 on: March 24, 2019, 02:04:42 am »

A completely different tack would be to look for the SK, in case there is one. Finding them would reduce the nk's to at most 1 per night.

That would be nice but they leave no trail.  We could just lynch MiX.  Unless you're town reading him?

I donít think even MiX is townreading MiX.

Which begs the question of why his lynch has never gone through.

I did not.

http://begthequestion.info/
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f.ds Mafia Board Moderator

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Games (30): Mafia: 17, 21, 24, 31, 39, 43, 67, 72, 86 || Newbie: 7 || RMM: 6, 7, 10, 20, 22, 26, 32, 45 || Blitz: 4-7, X, 17-19, 22, 24 || BM: 14, 19

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Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (Day 4)
« Reply #2048 on: March 24, 2019, 02:05:49 am »

Because it's MiX, and we are fresh out of a game where he did this exact stuff as town and got killed for it. (And he is an unlikely shraeye partner)

This seems right, although I was unaware of any previous games.

I definitely would lynch MiX, his personal brand of scumminess just seems to supercede whatever alignment he got in his PM.
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f.ds Mafia Board Moderator

2013, 2014, 2015 Mafia Mod of the Year

Games (30): Mafia: 17, 21, 24, 31, 39, 43, 67, 72, 86 || Newbie: 7 || RMM: 6, 7, 10, 20, 22, 26, 32, 45 || Blitz: 4-7, X, 17-19, 22, 24 || BM: 14, 19

2015 f.ds Representative, World Forum Mafia Championships
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Town: 47 Games, 24 Wins
Scum: 22 Games, 13 Wins
11x MVP: M30, M83, ZM16, M25, M38, M61, M76, RMM5, RMM41, RMM46, M51

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Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (Day 4)
« Reply #2049 on: March 24, 2019, 03:01:41 am »

I am townreading MiX.
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