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Author Topic: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (GAME OVER, Maquis win!)  (Read 47724 times)

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UmbrageOfSnow

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Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (Day 3)
« Reply #1750 on: March 19, 2019, 11:00:58 am »

UE, did you have a particular reason for voting e or was it just keeping options open?
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Uncleeurope

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Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (Day 3)
« Reply #1751 on: March 19, 2019, 11:03:45 am »

Yup, I found his hammer scummy, his wagon positions scummy, his response to suspicion scummy and I wanted to sheep Faust.

I was never over the moon about the idea though, been preferring. A WCD lynch for awhile.
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Uncleeurope Eddie

EFHW

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Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (Day 3)
« Reply #1752 on: March 19, 2019, 12:05:03 pm »

My concern about manipulation is that the Awaclus case felt very iffy to me. Like he was spinning things as scummy as opposed to actually finding scummy things. His case on e feels very much the same.
I don't understand how the two would feel the same. The Awaclus push had some amount of insincerity of course, since I had a hidden agenda. I don't understand how the e case is similar however... with Awaclus, I have tunneled him all day, hammering home the same point over and over again. With e, I have deliberately withheld my thoughts in order to get unbiased rereads from other players, I have only made the case when pressed and it involves an evaluation of his whole game and interactions rather than just a single vote. The two things are different in basically every respect.
In both cases you won't discuss anyone else. Your pressure on WCD certainly seems like you want the e lynch and are going to fight for it. Both cases feel contrived.
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UmbrageOfSnow

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Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (Day 3)
« Reply #1753 on: March 19, 2019, 12:07:00 pm »

So why are you voting for me and not faust?
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EFHW

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Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (Day 3)
« Reply #1754 on: March 19, 2019, 12:07:56 pm »

Okay, let's ruin Glooble's hard work
Vote: MiX

2.71828..... (3): UncleEurope, SpaceAnemone, MiX
chickenwarlord (3): DatSwan, 2.71828....., WestCoastDidds
MiX (3): raerae, chickenwarlord, Umbrageofsnow

UmbrageOfSnow (1): EFHW
WCD (1): faust
Not Voting (1): ashersky
Glooble's or Shraeye's?
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EFHW

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Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (Day 3)
« Reply #1755 on: March 19, 2019, 12:08:20 pm »

So why are you voting for me and not faust?
I don't think faust is scum.
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MiX

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Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (Day 3)
« Reply #1756 on: March 19, 2019, 12:09:07 pm »

Space/MiX, could you two summarize the e case for me?

Well, I think e's scummy mostly out of a gut read: it seems that everyone I put in my "towny but not 100% town" list is scum: in M121 ss and Uncle were there (and arishipshape was even higher) and I ended D2 with shraeye as the single person in it...and now e's there. Otherwise I'm simply sheeping faust, I really like his case, it makes perfect sense...except the hammer that is, he could be a cop for all we know and wanted to not get NKd. But the rest's good. Now that I think about it, what has e done D2 and D3? I don't remember much. Well, D2 he started the lighting faust wagon but what else? I feel like town!e would be doing much, MUCH more but I'll need to reread that.

What do you think of faust?

PPE 2: Glooble being the mod here.
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I don’t think even MiX is townreading MiX.

EFHW

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Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (Day 3)
« Reply #1757 on: March 19, 2019, 12:12:37 pm »

A cop with a result should speak up, not try to live another night. 1:1 benefits town. Ignoring this was one flawed assumption in faust's Awaclus ploy, which I am still irritated about.
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MiX

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Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (Day 3)
« Reply #1758 on: March 19, 2019, 12:17:00 pm »

A cop with a result should speak up, not try to live another night. 1:1 benefits town. Ignoring this was one flawed assumption in faust's Awaclus ploy, which I am still irritated about.

This late in the day I highly doubt anyone will come out with a guilty result. I also believe 3 nights are the correct number of nights to wait, so I don't think you're right. But what do I know.

What does this have to do with faust's play?
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I don’t think even MiX is townreading MiX.

faust

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Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (Day 3)
« Reply #1759 on: March 19, 2019, 12:21:15 pm »

My concern about manipulation is that the Awaclus case felt very iffy to me. Like he was spinning things as scummy as opposed to actually finding scummy things. His case on e feels very much the same.
I don't understand how the two would feel the same. The Awaclus push had some amount of insincerity of course, since I had a hidden agenda. I don't understand how the e case is similar however... with Awaclus, I have tunneled him all day, hammering home the same point over and over again. With e, I have deliberately withheld my thoughts in order to get unbiased rereads from other players, I have only made the case when pressed and it involves an evaluation of his whole game and interactions rather than just a single vote. The two things are different in basically every respect.
In both cases you won't discuss anyone else. Your pressure on WCD certainly seems like you want the e lynch and are going to fight for it. Both cases feel contrived.
Mh, I am happy to discuss other options and have done so. But what options do we have? chicken, where the case boils down to "he's kind of lurky", and MiX, the person scum!shraeye has tried to lynch for most of D2. Neither of those seems very appealing, and noone has come up with a convincing case.

I would gladly engage with someone who is really making a case on someone that's more than one throwaway observation. It is not my fault that this is not happening.
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Since the number of points is within a constant factor of the number of city quarters, in the long run we can get (4 - ε) ↑↑ n points in n turns for any ε > 0.

UmbrageOfSnow

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Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (Day 3)
« Reply #1760 on: March 19, 2019, 12:24:14 pm »

What do you think of faust?

I think I need to reevaluate him in light of his Ferengi claim, and I'm not going to have the time to do that before deadline probably, especially as I need to take the time and try to avoid confbias. But I've been the only one scumreading him, or at least willing to vote him all game, other than for 30 seconds on Day 2. It's pretty clear we're not going to lynch him today so I'm going to focus on other people.
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faust

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Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (Day 3)
« Reply #1761 on: March 19, 2019, 12:25:25 pm »

What do you think of faust?

I think I need to reevaluate him in light of his Ferengi claim, and I'm not going to have the time to do that before deadline probably, especially as I need to take the time and try to avoid confbias. But I've been the only one scumreading him, or at least willing to vote him all game, other than for 30 seconds on Day 2. It's pretty clear we're not going to lynch him today so I'm going to focus on other people.

Here's a list of all the alive players, and all the other players who've vote for them at least once so far in the game, in case it's interesting for everyone else:
[...]

faust: 8 (UmbrageOfSnow, DatSwan, MiX, ashersky, 2.71828....., Awaclus, Uncleeurope, raerae)
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Since the number of points is within a constant factor of the number of city quarters, in the long run we can get (4 - ε) ↑↑ n points in n turns for any ε > 0.

UmbrageOfSnow

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Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (Day 3)
« Reply #1762 on: March 19, 2019, 12:27:43 pm »

Sure doesn't feel that way.
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UmbrageOfSnow

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Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (Day 3)
« Reply #1763 on: March 19, 2019, 12:31:02 pm »

EFHW: are you townreading e?
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MiX

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Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (Day 3)
« Reply #1764 on: March 19, 2019, 12:32:02 pm »

What do you think of faust?

I think I need to reevaluate him in light of his Ferengi claim, and I'm not going to have the time to do that before deadline probably, especially as I need to take the time and try to avoid confbias. But I've been the only one scumreading him, or at least willing to vote him all game, other than for 30 seconds on Day 2. It's pretty clear we're not going to lynch him today so I'm going to focus on other people.

Right, you don't have all the time in the world. I forgot, sorry about that. You're right, there's no need to reread him before N3.


In other news, I just reread E, he has no posts and no reason for why he's voting chicken. I remember E as being much better as town than this, no V/LA or low activity announcement so...what is he doing?
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I don’t think even MiX is townreading MiX.

EFHW

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Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (Day 3)
« Reply #1765 on: March 19, 2019, 12:37:53 pm »

A cop with a result should speak up, not try to live another night. 1:1 benefits town. Ignoring this was one flawed assumption in faust's Awaclus ploy, which I am still irritated about.

This late in the day I highly doubt anyone will come out with a guilty result. I also believe 3 nights are the correct number of nights to wait, so I don't think you're right. But what do I know.

What does this have to do with faust's play?
You said maybe Awaclus would have claimed cop if e hadn't hammered him,  which reminded me that faust's plan depended on town all assuming he was a cop with a result, which I didn't and wouldn't.

3 nights to wait for what?
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EFHW

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Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (Day 3)
« Reply #1766 on: March 19, 2019, 12:39:10 pm »

My concern about manipulation is that the Awaclus case felt very iffy to me. Like he was spinning things as scummy as opposed to actually finding scummy things. His case on e feels very much the same.
I don't understand how the two would feel the same. The Awaclus push had some amount of insincerity of course, since I had a hidden agenda. I don't understand how the e case is similar however... with Awaclus, I have tunneled him all day, hammering home the same point over and over again. With e, I have deliberately withheld my thoughts in order to get unbiased rereads from other players, I have only made the case when pressed and it involves an evaluation of his whole game and interactions rather than just a single vote. The two things are different in basically every respect.
In both cases you won't discuss anyone else. Your pressure on WCD certainly seems like you want the e lynch and are going to fight for it. Both cases feel contrived.
Mh, I am happy to discuss other options and have done so. But what options do we have? chicken, where the case boils down to "he's kind of lurky", and MiX, the person scum!shraeye has tried to lynch for most of D2. Neither of those seems very appealing, and noone has come up with a convincing case.

I would gladly engage with someone who is really making a case on someone that's more than one throwaway observation. It is not my fault that this is not happening.
You have refused to share your ideas about other potential Shraeye partners.
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EFHW

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Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (Day 3)
« Reply #1767 on: March 19, 2019, 12:41:18 pm »

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MiX

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Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (Day 3)
« Reply #1768 on: March 19, 2019, 12:50:21 pm »

A cop with a result should speak up, not try to live another night. 1:1 benefits town. Ignoring this was one flawed assumption in faust's Awaclus ploy, which I am still irritated about.

This late in the day I highly doubt anyone will come out with a guilty result. I also believe 3 nights are the correct number of nights to wait, so I don't think you're right. But what do I know.

What does this have to do with faust's play?
You said maybe Awaclus would have claimed cop if e hadn't hammered him,  which reminded me that faust's plan depended on town all assuming he was a cop with a result, which I didn't and wouldn't.

3 nights to wait for what?

Wait what when did I say that? When did anyone said that? I meant that E could be a cop...oops. I didn't know that was confusing.

3 nights to always come out with a guilty result. But WIFOM WIFOM WIFOM so maybe I shouldn't have said anything. I'll think about this more in N3. If you're still confused, maybe you should be, I'm not sure I should be talking about this... If you aren't confused, then I'll just say that this doesn't mean faust misplayed his gambit, I think that's how cop would want to come out with a result D2.
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I don’t think even MiX is townreading MiX.

Uncleeurope

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Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (Day 3)
« Reply #1769 on: March 19, 2019, 01:13:15 pm »

Okay, I am just going to put this out there.

WCD is my top scum pick for today. I think that the majority of her posts are contentless at best and bornderlined manipulative at worst. Under direct questions she squirms and any opinion she released is either because of someone else (Example: “EFHW, what was it you said again about Faust manipulating”) thus eliminating personal attachment to the case or followed up by a second option to read the situation. Sooo much waffling.

Like, if someone could be the human incarnation of a waffle, it’s WCD.

Her name is now WaffleCoastDidds, I have dubbed it such.

Pair that with some of the wagon analysis that has been going around and it just doesn’t look good.
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Uncleeurope Eddie

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Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (Day 3)
« Reply #1770 on: March 19, 2019, 01:15:14 pm »

You have refused to share your ideas about other potential Shraeye partners.
Yes. I don't see how sharing that would benefit town right now. It only helps scum figure out who they should nightkill, and gives them leeway to support the wagon on the scumread that isn't their partner.
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Since the number of points is within a constant factor of the number of city quarters, in the long run we can get (4 - ε) ↑↑ n points in n turns for any ε > 0.

Uncleeurope

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Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (Day 3)
« Reply #1771 on: March 19, 2019, 01:18:06 pm »

I should also throw in that out of everyone she is the person who has been the most “well, Uncle is suspect” without doing ANYTHING about it. Like, make a case on me or leave me alone, because what she is doing is he definition of keeping me open an option to lynch in the future.

I think that behavior is scummy and am using that to build my case, an element you people might not see as significant as I see it. So some amount of my case could be seen as bias, and should be noted.
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Uncleeurope Eddie

MiX

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Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (Day 3)
« Reply #1772 on: March 19, 2019, 01:22:45 pm »

I should also throw in that out of everyone she is the person who has been the most “well, Uncle is suspect” without doing ANYTHING about it. Like, make a case on me or leave me alone, because what she is doing is he definition of keeping me open an option to lynch in the future.

I think that behavior is scummy and am using that to build my case, an element you people might not see as significant as I see it. So some amount of my case could be seen as bias, and should be noted.

Er...reread past Didds games. I don't think this is any difference from her town games. In fact, I reread her N2 and what I determined is that she's not a Survivor, just look at RMM50 and this and spot the differences, mostly with her votes.

When did she manipulate anyone? Examples, please.
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I don’t think even MiX is townreading MiX.

WestCoastDidds

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Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (Day 3)
« Reply #1773 on: March 19, 2019, 01:28:14 pm »

Oh, thanks for the personal attacks, Eddie. And a mean nickname to boot. Yeah, that’s awesome. Cool.
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It's probably not townie mctownerson WCD.

UmbrageOfSnow

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Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (Day 3)
« Reply #1774 on: March 19, 2019, 01:33:23 pm »

Oh, thanks for the personal attacks, Eddie. And a mean nickname to boot. Yeah, that’s awesome. Cool.
Is waffle an anti-Belgian racial slur?
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