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Author Topic: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (GAME OVER, Maquis win!)  (Read 310125 times)

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MiX

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Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (Day 2)
« Reply #1175 on: March 08, 2019, 02:15:54 pm »

What do you think of MiX choosing to not say something for once when I brought up the Jimmmmmmmmm and mcmc votes vs Robz votes question?

Not only did you not specify that you meant to ask me, that question brings too much WIFOM about what the scumteam are thinking about. The other questions were much more practical.
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UmbrageOfSnow

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Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (Day 2)
« Reply #1176 on: March 08, 2019, 02:25:45 pm »

Explain how it increases wifom?
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MiX

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Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (Day 2)
« Reply #1177 on: March 08, 2019, 02:29:04 pm »

Explain how it increases wifom?

I meant that the question can't be answered without knowing exactly what the scumteam(s) are thinking about. It's all about whatever plan they have, which is something I have no clue about. It resides on "would scum vote for someone and then kill them?" which is a question I wouldn't even know how to begin answering.
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UmbrageOfSnow

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Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (Day 2)
« Reply #1178 on: March 08, 2019, 02:41:52 pm »

I meant that they are wagons on people who have flipped town.
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MiX

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Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (Day 2)
« Reply #1179 on: March 08, 2019, 02:52:30 pm »

I meant that they are wagons on people who have flipped town.

Oh. That means nothing, most wagons are on people that flip town...next wall post will say what I think of the Robz wagon, it's all about positioning and timing, just "being" on a wagon gives no information. So, no, that question makes no sense.
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UmbrageOfSnow

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Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (Day 2)
« Reply #1180 on: March 08, 2019, 03:08:45 pm »

...
This is kind of my point. And yet it still feels like you're missing my point.
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Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (Day 2)
« Reply #1181 on: March 08, 2019, 03:12:10 pm »

I am contributing, where I have things to say. I am just very succinct! I gave up on rereading the thread, though. It was too much of a slog. So I don't have many things to say about the past. I am planning to do targeted rereads of you and e.

You should absolutely reread me faust and Awaclus too, otherwise you'll be useless today.
I can't possibly reread you. That's why I had to stop. My tl;dr comment was mostly meant for you. You have an entertaining, lively way of writing, but it's really hard to get through a lot at once.
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Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (Day 2)
« Reply #1182 on: March 08, 2019, 03:14:56 pm »

You also haven't said much about the present, EFHW. Do you think I'm nuts about Faust or onto something? What do you think of MiX choosing to not say something for once when I brought up the Jimmmmmmmmm and mcmc votes vs Robz votes question?
I did consider the faust question and decided I disagreed. Mix seems to have backed off posting in general and the question doesn't seem very meaningful to me. Maybe you can explain what you trying to get at?
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Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (Day 2)
« Reply #1183 on: March 08, 2019, 03:17:33 pm »

I am contributing, where I have things to say. I am just very succinct! I gave up on rereading the thread, though. It was too much of a slog. So I don't have many things to say about the past. I am planning to do targeted rereads of you and e.

You should absolutely reread me faust and Awaclus too, otherwise you'll be useless today.
I've already not been useless today.
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MiX

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Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (Day 2)
« Reply #1184 on: March 08, 2019, 03:25:29 pm »

...
This is kind of my point. And yet it still feels like you're missing my point.

If you want me to tell you things, you might find it helpful to actually ask the questions you mean to ask instead of going around the subject. I have no idea what you mean by this post and if I missed your point, how could it be "kind of" your point? I don't get it...

I am contributing, where I have things to say. I am just very succinct! I gave up on rereading the thread, though. It was too much of a slog. So I don't have many things to say about the past. I am planning to do targeted rereads of you and e.

You should absolutely reread me faust and Awaclus too, otherwise you'll be useless today.
I can't possibly reread you. That's why I had to stop. My tl;dr comment was mostly meant for you. You have an entertaining, lively way of writing, but it's really hard to get through a lot at once.

Understandable. But I have no idea how to summarize my posts, they're usually a bunch of seperate points that are, well, hard to summarize? I have no idea how to get a good short conclusion from my posts that I actually want to share, most of them state how I'm shaping my reads and I have no intent to make that obvious to everyone.

PPE 2
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MiX

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Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (Day 2)
« Reply #1185 on: March 08, 2019, 04:30:23 pm »

VCA! Let's see our end-of-D1 vote count:

LaLight (2): Shraeye, Robz888
Robz888 (10): 2.71828....., WestCoastDidds, UmbrageofSnow, SpaceAnemone, chickenwarlord, DatSwan, Awaclus, Glooble, Jimmmmm, ashersky
Jimmmmm (1): raerae
raerae (1): mcmcsalot
2.71828..... (1): LaLight
SpaceAnemone (3): faust, Uncleeurope, MiX

From this, we can seperate these voters into several groups:
  • Robz wagon: 2.71, Didds, UoS, Space, chicken, Swan, Awaclus, Glooble, Jimmmmm, ash
  • LL/Space wagons: shraeye, Robz, raerae, faust, Uncle, MiX
  • None of the above: raerae, mcmc, LL
I'm seperating the LL/Space wagons because I think those were the other realistic options besides Robz (if anyone feels like 2.71 or Jimmmmm should go there I'll make a post with them too).

We can further seperate this if we look at the vote count when Robz was the only one getting lynched, that is, after Swan's vote:

LaLight (4): MiX, Shraeye, Glooble, Robz888
Robz888 (6): 2.71828....., WestCoastDidds, UmbrageofSnow, SpaceAnemone, chickenwarlord, DatSwan
Jimmmmm (1): raerae
raerae (2): ashersky, mcmcsalot
2.71828..... (2): LaLight, Awaclus
shraeye (1): Jimmmmm
SpaceAnemone (2): faust, Uncleeurope

Since the lynch was guaranteed here, we can ignore votes after this. The 2.71 vote's also irrelevent for the Robz wagon: it's better if we remove him from that group to make conclusions. We can also add Uncle to the Robz list because of his vote mobility around deadline (voted after UoS, moved to Jimmmm after chicken). Thus, our groups are:
  • Robz wagon: Didds, UoS, Uncleeurope, Space, chicken, Swan
  • LL/Space wagons: MiX, shraeye, Glooble, Robz, raerae, faust, Uncleeurope
  • None of the above: 2.71, ashersky, raerae, mcmc, LL, Awaclus, Jimmmmm
So, now that this is done, how can we use this? I believe there's (at least) one scum in the first group. Why? Because I feel like SOME scum would want to enter the Robz wagon. At least one, to help it grow, it was a fairly easy wagon to enter (just look at UoS' post when voting and you'll realize why) and you would be between townies doing the same, perfect cover. Besides, it grew like a wildfire (all of those votes were from #791 to #836). Wow, it actually grew incredibly fast.

Let's look at the votes in order, Didds first:

vote: Robz

I am committeed to a lynch.  I am willing to vote for LL, Robz, or Asher.  I won't vote for Jimmmm today.

At this point LL had 6 votes and Robz had 1. So moving because "I am comitted to a lynch" is...weird at best, scummy at worst. However, she does explain it in the only way possible:

I left LL when enough folks said it wasnít fair to lynch him with no internet access, etc, so while Iím on Robz early itís because he seemed viable based on the talk even if it wants yet about votes. And I wasnít moving to Jimmm.

Which looks reasonable enough. It's also a very good excuse to get off the LL wagon but that only makes sense if LL's scum...go back here if EFHW flips scum.

Next is UoS with the best explanation:

Vote: Robz

Baaaaaaaaa

Wow. Just wow. Is sheeping scummy? It's a very "meh" reason and one that is stupidly easy to explain: all UoS has to say is that 2.71 was towny...oh hey, that's what they did! I don't like this vote, seems to be what scum would do. @UoS, do you like sheeping? If so, do you prefer to do it early or later in the game?

Then comes Mr. volatile vote, Uncle:

Vote: Robz

I dunno, people. My vote is still fluid, just trying some stuff out.

His other votes has much more substance than this, feels off. But he jumped off the wagon, which makes this reasoning make sense. Since he was moving everywhere and the wagon grew REALLY fast I think this vote's null, Uncle just wanted to hop around and got caught up with the barrage of Robz votes, he even left after 2 votes. @Uncle, why, exactly, did you vote for Robz?

Now, space:

Robz888 -- Actually, his inactivity here doesn't feel totally like it did in RMM51. Here he seems to be reading and sheeping, rather than too busy to be present. I certainly have sympathy for people who find interacting with a big group on D1 tough, but that's not really the vibe I get from him either. Of the major wagons that I haven't ruled out, he's looking the most votable.

Vote: Robz

Here I feel that the weird thing was throwing away so many people off their lynch pool then not getting better scumreads than Robz. The whole post's also a lot of words to essencially sheep 2.71 since that's, ultimately, what drove them to vote...yet they don't say it here. Yes, I've said this before, but it keeps being true. Also, if you read it all, it has exactly 1 scumread (Robz) and then whatever it is that Space thinks of me, I still don't know what "case" they were talking about, but I'm assuming it's a scumread too?

Chicken's next:

Vote Robbz

I guess it makes sense to throw my vote into the ring at this juncture. Robbz was my strongest scumread, and now that it is looking like we are converging for an actual lynch seems to have the most traction. If there is a big shift to Lalight I guess I could be persuaded, but I would much rather stick on this line.

"strong" scumread with some of the flimsiest reasons to vote I've ever seen. I would be on this wagon instantly if I didn't think this is part of his meta. @chicken, you said "It wasn't scummy in and of itself - but the first was a rather a poor choice of words to throw out when the populace at large already had moderate suspicion on him": how is this scummy? How is a poor choice of words scummy? This explanation is essencial for us to understand you.

Lastly comes Swan:

I was wrong. I will not be here. I do not think Robz is particularly skummy but I do not want my vote to go to waste and I do not want to vote for Space.


Vote: Robz

So...he votes for Robz because he doesn't "want to vote for Space"? Yet LL's a much bigger wagon...he then explains this with the laziest (lazy seems to be a theme of this game) answer I've seen:

LL's wagon was at 4 votes, Robz' was at 5, he could easily vote LL...actually, @Swan, why didn't you vote LL?

I posted this in my VCA - but because I had to choose between the two and I liked Robz more than LL.

Now that I had time to reread...WHAT VCA? I didn't see you talk about LL at all. @Swan, what, how do you explain this? Swan has the worst explanation, he just saw a wagon, voted and went on his merry way...he didn't have a lot of time but he could clearly see that there were 3 wagons, he only commented 2, I don't get it.


From all this I get: Swan is scum, UoS and chicken are scummy, Didds, Space and Uncle are null/towny, doesn't matter now.

Now, you might say, but there's almost always scum in a 6 player group! To wish I reply, if we're in multiball, there would be at least 2 scum here. Because each scum team wants the cover, they would both put someone in there, not realizing that the other scum team's already there, since they don't even know if it's multiball. This would easily explain how the wagon exploded so fast. But, what if it's not multiball? Well, I'm positive there's still at least 1 scum here, which is more than you can say in a random group of 6. You can also note (and I will) that Uncle's vote had little to do with it and reduce it to a group of 5 with guaranteed 1 scum: those are pretty good odds. Couple that with bad reasons to vote from pretty much everyone and you have a solid lynch list. I'll essencially want to lynch from this list today, but not the null/towny reads, so just Swan, UoS and chicken.

Unfortunatly I'm pretty sure I made a lot of stretches, overexaggerations, oversimplifications or just outright mistakes somewhere, as I am prone to, so I'll also accept a faust or Awaclus lynch. Awaclus for their position in the wagon, unquestionable, which means he would (theoretically) be safe from VCAs today and faust for...hey, I actually like the manipulation case! But really just because the only way faust flips scum is if every single town joins on him. I'll have to reread him later...

I had some things to say about the other 2 groups, for example, I'm also positive there's at least one scum in the LL/Space bunch, but here I don't have a lot to say about each because they haven't said important things about those votes...also I'm not as confident about that.

TL;DR: Swan is scum, UoS and chicken are scummy, will vote for faust and Awaclus, must reread faust.

I'll single out some questions next post. If anyone wants me to go in-depth in the LL/Space group say so, I already spent a lot of brainpower just doing this analysis...
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MiX

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Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (Day 2)
« Reply #1186 on: March 08, 2019, 04:33:35 pm »

Questions from previous post:

@UoS, do you like sheeping? If so, do you prefer to do it early or later in the game?

@Uncle, why, exactly, did you vote for Robz?

@chicken, you said "It wasn't scummy in and of itself - but the first was a rather a poor choice of words to throw out when the populace at large already had moderate suspicion on him": how is this scummy? How is a poor choice of words scummy? This explanation is essencial for us to understand you.

@Swan, what, how do you explain never mentioning LL D1? This question makes more sense in the context of the previous post.
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Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (Day 2)
« Reply #1187 on: March 08, 2019, 05:00:44 pm »

I donít remember exactly why, I think it was a mix of eís posts getting to me and Robz poss feeling slightly apathetic. As well as, and this is the big one, wanting to see more clearly who was okay with Robz dying more clearly.

That being said, I caved once so many people jumped, and became much more interested in not pushing the narrative that this was inevitable just to see how many people would agree or disagree.

Why no mention of Awaclus in your list there, I must have missed the bit where you discounted him.

Vote: Faust

Errr...

Vote: Chicken
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MiX

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Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (Day 2)
« Reply #1188 on: March 08, 2019, 05:04:14 pm »

I donít remember exactly why, I think it was a mix of eís posts getting to me and Robz poss feeling slightly apathetic. As well as, and this is the big one, wanting to see more clearly who was okay with Robz dying more clearly.

That being said, I caved once so many people jumped, and became much more interested in not pushing the narrative that this was inevitable just to see how many people would agree or disagree.

Why no mention of Awaclus in your list there, I must have missed the bit where you discounted him.

Vote: Faust

Errr...

Vote: Chicken

Awaclus voted after Swan. Did you actually read that wall? Wow.

What makes you think chicken's scum (or scummier than Swan)?
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Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (Day 2)
« Reply #1189 on: March 08, 2019, 05:08:07 pm »

Okay Faust, thoughts on Awaclus now?
I think he is scum.
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Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (Day 2)
« Reply #1190 on: March 08, 2019, 05:34:45 pm »

Okay Faust, thoughts on Awaclus now?
I think he is scum.

You're mistaken.
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MiX

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Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (Day 2)
« Reply #1191 on: March 08, 2019, 05:36:11 pm »

Okay Faust, thoughts on Awaclus now?
I think he is scum.

You're mistaken.

What did this post accomplish? All it does is say "My name is Awaclus and here is my meta" which is useless.
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Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (Day 2)
« Reply #1192 on: March 08, 2019, 06:01:05 pm »

Okay Faust, thoughts on Awaclus now?
I think he is scum.

You're mistaken.

What did this post accomplish? All it does is say "My name is Awaclus and here is my meta" which is useless.

What did this post accomplish? All it does is say "My name is MiX and here is my meta" which is useless.
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MiX

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Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (Day 2)
« Reply #1193 on: March 08, 2019, 06:01:58 pm »

Okay Faust, thoughts on Awaclus now?
I think he is scum.

You're mistaken.

What did this post accomplish? All it does is say "My name is Awaclus and here is my meta" which is useless.

What did this post accomplish? All it does is say "My name is MiX and here is my meta" which is useless.

I wanted to know what you thought was good content or not, clearly you like to reduce scum's information, how do you feel about saying nothing in a post?
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Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (Day 2)
« Reply #1194 on: March 08, 2019, 06:06:45 pm »

Okay Faust, thoughts on Awaclus now?
I think he is scum.

You're mistaken.

What did this post accomplish? All it does is say "My name is Awaclus and here is my meta" which is useless.

What did this post accomplish? All it does is say "My name is MiX and here is my meta" which is useless.

I wanted to know what you thought was good content or not, clearly you like to reduce scum's information, how do you feel about saying nothing in a post?

I'm generally fine with saying nothing in a post. It makes rereads and finding specific posts to quote take slightly more effort, which probably hurts all alignments equally but it's an extremely minor effect either way so I don't know if it's good or not and I don't really care too much either.
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Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (Day 2)
« Reply #1195 on: March 08, 2019, 06:52:41 pm »

vote: mix

That wagon analysis was...something. But to me the biggest thing that stands out is the use of the thought and phrasing that the Robz lynch ďwas securedĒ at some point earlier in the day.

 And the. Removing players from that wagon to do wagon analysis as if they were on other wagons even when they were not is just...wow?

I still have no town reads. MiX is scummier than Awaclus and deadline and all that.
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Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (Day 1)
« Reply #1196 on: March 08, 2019, 07:12:22 pm »

Vote Count 2.6




MiX (4): raerae, Awaclus, chickenwarlord, ashersky
Awaclus (4): faust, WestCoastDidds, shraeye, Glooble
faust (1): UmbrageOfSnow
DatSwan (1): MiX
chickenwarlord (1): Uncleeurope

Not voting (5): 2.71828....., SpaceAnemone, EFHW, DatSwan

With 15 alive it takes 8 to lynch most players. Day 2 ends at 8:00 am forum time, Monday March 11th.

I wasnít able to find a backup mod so you are somewhat on your own for vote counts between now and Sunday night. I will try to pop in here and there though.
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Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (Day 2)
« Reply #1197 on: March 08, 2019, 07:31:51 pm »

Questions from previous post:

@UoS, do you like sheeping? If so, do you prefer to do it early or later in the game?

@Uncle, why, exactly, did you vote for Robz?

@chicken, you said "It wasn't scummy in and of itself - but the first was a rather a poor choice of words to throw out when the populace at large already had moderate suspicion on him": how is this scummy? How is a poor choice of words scummy? This explanation is essencial for us to understand you.

@Swan, what, how do you explain never mentioning LL D1? This question makes more sense in the context of the previous post.

Response to MiX - I thought the context was clear, but I could see how it is not. I said on day 1 "I don't want to vote for space, so I will vote for Robz"... knowing that LL was the second wagon. I assumed it would be gathered that that meant I did not want to lynch LL. I tried to elaborate on that when you asked me earlier in Day 2.

As for reasons:

1) Didn't want to vote LL because they were way out of any element I have ever seen them play. Specifically, it is my observation that as skum they do not lurk at all. Zero content creates a rough read, but I did not want to vote there when I combine those points.

2) With LL removed my choices were Robz or Space. I knew I would not be around to help with vote switching at DL (5am my time). I really had no good reason. While I enjoy Robz in games once he starts talking very much... I find Space's content mid-late game far more useful. I also am horrible at reading Robz. Not to say I am good at reading Space, but she and I normally but heads so she naturally stays on my radar.... which is comforting in a weird way.

Combine all that with a dash of "Robz was the larger wagon and I wasn't gonna be around"... and you get my vote for Robz.

I feel like I mentioned all this before, but there is the summary.
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Town:  14 wins, 14 losses (1 MVP)
Skum: 7 wins, 7 losses (1 MVP)
3-Party: 4 wins, 1 loss

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Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (Day 2)
« Reply #1198 on: March 08, 2019, 07:38:15 pm »

Yeah, I'm with Ash, let's make this inevitable now that faust clearly isn't happening.

Vote: MiX

The one that really gets me is somehow winding up null/town on Space after all that.
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Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (Day 2)
« Reply #1199 on: March 08, 2019, 07:46:53 pm »


@UoS, do you like sheeping? If so, do you prefer to do it early or later in the game?


I don't really like sheeping, but sometimes it makes sense. It's not an early or late game thing really, but I guess I'd say I'm much more likely to do it early game, but I think that is true of literally everyone.
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