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Author Topic: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (GAME OVER, Maquis win!)  (Read 90807 times)

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MiX

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Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (Day 2)
« Reply #1150 on: March 08, 2019, 08:56:21 am »

I was in fact decently against a lynch until Robz posted those two quotes. The first being a 'no matter how much people are discussing me, no one wants to actually throw the votes my way' and the second being a 'you shouldn't throw your vote at things that aren't going to happen' - which in this case was poetic injustice. The combination of two read as a bit of a challenge.

And why was this scummy? Sorry for not asking earlier, had other priorities and forgot.

PPE 1
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Awaclus

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Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (Day 2)
« Reply #1151 on: March 08, 2019, 08:59:40 am »


Why did you answer me?

If you don't like it, don't read it.

That didn't answer my question.

Oh. Well I answered you because I'm trying to win this game.
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Glooble

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Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (Day 2)
« Reply #1152 on: March 08, 2019, 09:03:26 am »

I'm sorry MiX, I am going to keep trying to argue with Awaclus, because otherwise he's just going to be this constant source of confusion to me every time we play a game together.

Awaclus, I'm genuinely curious about what sort of analysis you consider to be pro-town. Because your whole defense of your own play seems to be: you voted for e to see how people would react, but to analyze those reactions would somehow give information that would be more useful to scum than to town. Which gives you cover for not explaining any further why that move was helpful because, by your own logic, to do so will only help scum.

But, here's the thing: aside from hidden information - our roles, any investigate results we might have gotten, etc. - what exactly is there that we don't want scum to know? Like, how does it help scum to know what townies think about you and e? I'm really, really not seeing it.

So just to give you the benefit of the doubt, let's look at the fall out of the oh-so-important e vote. (It's on page 19 if anyone wants to follow along.)

e is at 3 votes when Awaclus votes.

Didds votes e shortly thereafter, bringing that wagon to 5. It's not clear if Awaclus's vote had any impact on her decision to do this, but that's certainly some pressure on e.

Shortly thereafter the conversation shifts to me being scummy, there's a little bit of conversation on pages 20 and 21 where an e lynch is considered in a way it maybe wouldn't be being considered without Awaclus's vote but that's hard to say. Then e votes Robz and the Robz wagon starts.

I admit, this actually does make e look worse to me. I hadn't realized before that e had five votes on him already when he started that wagon. My initial thought of "scum e wouldn't push a wagon this hard day one" loses a little weight if he started the wagon when he was already one of the biggest lynch possibilities. But people start moving off of e pretty quickly after that, and he continues to push the Robz case.

I don't see how any of this is more helpful for scum to know than for town to know though. I'm happy to keep my vote on Awaclus until he starts making sense.


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I think town!Glooble pointing to something as a scum tell and then shortly thereafter doing that thing is a lot more likely than scum!Glooble doing that.

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Awaclus

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Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (Day 2)
« Reply #1153 on: March 08, 2019, 09:04:00 am »

Now let us all ponder over what was meant by this. What possible information (besides your role) on night 0 could you have had to share that would have given scum an advantage? I feel like I'm missing one or two steps in this logic train.

This is Day 2, not Night 0. Specifically the information that I have that would give scum an advantage is "what I personally think about the e wagon".

Also you (might) need to have a space in between the colon and the name of whoever you're voting for. I don't know if joth cares about that but most mods won't count a vote unless it's in the correct format, including the space.
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WestCoastDidds

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Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (Day 2)
« Reply #1154 on: March 08, 2019, 09:14:17 am »


Why did you answer me?

In my experience, Awaclus is super frustrating because he is cryptic and contributes only as much as he thinks is necessary. But, he always answers direct questions, but usually just the question. This is how I know he likes tarantulas and doesn’t have a pet...

WestCoastDidds

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Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (Day 2)
« Reply #1155 on: March 08, 2019, 09:16:28 am »

Chicken, when you vote, include a space after the colon. Oddly specific, I know, but that’s how they do.

Glooble

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Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (Day 2)
« Reply #1156 on: March 08, 2019, 09:17:09 am »

Here's my main problem with Awaclus's reasoning right now.

More discussion means scum is forced to lie more. They have to think about the information they have versus the information they're supposed to have, and sometimes they mess up. They have to justify their votes, and if their real reason for voting is help their own wincon, they have to come up with a lie. The more we force scum to lie, the more likely we are to catch them in a lie.

So letting each town player draw they're own conclusions and encouraging votes with no explanation attached just lets scum hide. I know Awaclus knows this, so it feels to me like Awaclus is just trying to justify his own scummy behavior and enable scummy behavior from others.
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I think town!Glooble pointing to something as a scum tell and then shortly thereafter doing that thing is a lot more likely than scum!Glooble doing that.

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WestCoastDidds

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Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (Day 2)
« Reply #1157 on: March 08, 2019, 09:17:26 am »

I think it is super weird that Lalight was contributing more than EFHW has.

MiX

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Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (Day 2)
« Reply #1158 on: March 08, 2019, 09:18:48 am »

This is Day 2, not Night 0. Specifically the information that I have that would give scum an advantage is "what I personally think about the e wagon".

But before you said:

I'd legit rather self-hammer than let scum know my thought process behind voting for e.

Related?

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Chickenwarlord

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Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (Day 2)
« Reply #1159 on: March 08, 2019, 09:33:26 am »

And why was this scummy? Sorry for not asking earlier, had other priorities and forgot.
It wasn't scummy in and of itself - but the first was a rather a poor choice of words to throw out when the populace at large already had moderate suspicion on him. The second - the call to action- just made me consider that if I was going to vote I should do it for something that was logically going to be chosen. Literally no one else had jumped on my no lynch wagon, even other people in the thread that had made arguments for no lynch weren't putting their money where their discourse was.
Was it a bit of a sheep move to vote Robz there? Absolutely. Was I already thinking about it at that point? Also yes.
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Awaclus

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Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (Day 2)
« Reply #1160 on: March 08, 2019, 09:33:33 am »

But, here's the thing: aside from hidden information - our roles, any investigate results we might have gotten, etc. - what exactly is there that we don't want scum to know? Like, how does it help scum to know what townies think about you and e? I'm really, really not seeing it.

We don't want scum to know:

1) what mistakes they're making
2) how much they can trust that we'll vote for a mislynch vs. push for a scum lynch
3) how much they can trust that some of us with PRs will use them in certain ways

Concretely, in RMM51, we knew some of that stuff, and took or tried to take advantage of all of it. I realized that I would benefit from switching to a more engaged, quasi-helpful style of posting because town pretty much outright told me that, which I did and it worked. We were able to e.g. kill Haddock right at the moment when he was running out of false scum reads and probably would have gone after the real scum next but we pre-emptively stopped that from happening and didn't even look suspicious in doing so. And then we made a mistake in assuming how WCD would use her role and that put us into a more difficult position for the final day. 
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Awaclus

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Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (Day 2)
« Reply #1161 on: March 08, 2019, 09:34:49 am »

This is Day 2, not Night 0. Specifically the information that I have that would give scum an advantage is "what I personally think about the e wagon".

But before you said:

I'd legit rather self-hammer than let scum know my thought process behind voting for e.

Related?

PPE 4

I misspoke.
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Awaclus

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Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (Day 2)
« Reply #1162 on: March 08, 2019, 09:38:41 am »

They have to justify their votes, and if their real reason for voting is help their own wincon, they have to come up with a lie. The more we force scum to lie, the more likely we are to catch them in a lie.

So letting each town player draw they're own conclusions and encouraging votes with no explanation attached just lets scum hide. I know Awaclus knows this, so it feels to me like Awaclus is just trying to justify his own scummy behavior and enable scummy behavior from others.

I think it's trivial for scum to come up with a believable fake reason why they're voting the way they do.
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Chickenwarlord

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Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (Day 2)
« Reply #1163 on: March 08, 2019, 09:40:26 am »

I misspoke.
With this, your logic makes more sense certainly, but not enough to throw off suspicion.
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EFHW

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Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (Day 2)
« Reply #1164 on: March 08, 2019, 11:16:25 am »

Is that a good deal? Is this how people handle Awaclus? He's weird.
This is how Awaclus responds to questions. Not really alignment indicative, unfortunately.
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Uncleeurope

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Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (Day 2)
« Reply #1165 on: March 08, 2019, 11:28:00 am »

Okay Faust, thoughts on Awaclus now?

MiX, is that really your best scumread? DatSwowl’s timing regarding the end of the day? That seems unlike you.
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Uncleeurope Eddie

MiX

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Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (Day 2)
« Reply #1166 on: March 08, 2019, 11:30:01 am »

Okay Faust, thoughts on Awaclus now?

MiX, is that really your best scumread? DatSwowl’s timing regarding the end of the day? That seems unlike you.

I ran out of scumreads. Well, that aren't related to the VCA. It's sad, I know...this is why I wasn't moving from Swan.
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Uncleeurope

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Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (Day 2)
« Reply #1167 on: March 08, 2019, 11:34:34 am »

Vote: MiX
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Uncleeurope Eddie

MiX

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Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (Day 2)
« Reply #1168 on: March 08, 2019, 11:35:20 am »

Vote: MiX

Vobe: Uncle

Two can play that game!
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Glooble

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Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (Day 2)
« Reply #1169 on: March 08, 2019, 11:56:42 am »

I think it is super weird that Lalight was contributing more than EFHW has.

It is kinda weird. You've had plenty of time to catch up, EFHW. What caught your eye? Who are you scumreading? Which argument do you think was the stupidest?
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I think town!Glooble pointing to something as a scum tell and then shortly thereafter doing that thing is a lot more likely than scum!Glooble doing that.

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Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (Day 1)
« Reply #1170 on: March 08, 2019, 12:27:05 pm »

Vote Count 2.5


Gul Dukat sends Worf a helpful message from his guest quarters.

"Mr. Worf,

I was administrator of this station for a number of years, you know. Please do let me know if there's anything you need help figuring out. I know the heating controls in your new office can be quite finicky. Alternately, I'd be happy to take over the position.

At your service,
Gul Dukat"

Worf facepalms.


MiX (4): raerae, Awaclus, chickenwarlord, UncleEurope
Awaclus (4): faust, WestCoastDidds, shraeye, Glooble
faust (2): UmbrageOfSnow, ashersky
DatSwan (1): MiX

Not voting (5): 2.71828....., SpaceAnemone, EFHW, DatSwan

With 15 alive it takes 8 to lynch most players. Day 2 ends at 8:00 am forum time, Monday March 11th.

Your mod will be V/LA from Friday night to Sunday night. Currently seeking a backup mod (not from among players) to do some vote counts. I will be back at deadline.

For the record, I don't care about the space, but I will not be accepting Vobes.
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EFHW

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Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (Day 2)
« Reply #1171 on: March 08, 2019, 12:47:53 pm »

I am contributing, where I have things to say. I am just very succinct! I gave up on rereading the thread, though. It was too much of a slog. So I don't have many things to say about the past. I am planning to do targeted rereads of you and e.
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MiX

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Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (Day 2)
« Reply #1172 on: March 08, 2019, 12:49:44 pm »

I am contributing, where I have things to say. I am just very succinct! I gave up on rereading the thread, though. It was too much of a slog. So I don't have many things to say about the past. I am planning to do targeted rereads of you and e.

You should absolutely reread me faust and Awaclus too, otherwise you'll be useless today.
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UmbrageOfSnow

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Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (Day 2)
« Reply #1173 on: March 08, 2019, 02:07:35 pm »

You also haven't said much about the present, EFHW. Do you think I'm nuts about Faust or onto something? What do you think of MiX choosing to not say something for once when I brought up the Jimmmmmmmmm and mcmc votes vs Robz votes question?
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UmbrageOfSnow

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Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (Day 2)
« Reply #1174 on: March 08, 2019, 02:09:16 pm »

For what it's worth, I somewhat agree with Awaclus, I just think the sweet spot is more where I am. Of course, I would think that.
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