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Author Topic: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (GAME OVER, Maquis win!)  (Read 90573 times)

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Glooble

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Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (PMs sent. Night 0)
« Reply #1125 on: March 08, 2019, 04:52:30 am »

Im going to reread Awaclus real quick, hopefully that gets us somewhere. Given that he seems to be the lynch were crystallizing around right now. On mobile so fewer quotes then usual.


In RMM51, it definitely helped scum a ton that a lot of information was available and that a lot of it was true. We were a lot e to make very informed decisions most nights.

This is the post that made me start townreading Awaclus. Im just not sure I see scum Awaclus sharing this rather than pet town dog their own graves as it were. But he could also just have done it for towncred I suppose.

Next notable thing he does is vote for ash after saying he was super behind and catching up, which ash calls out. Its a little scummy I guess.

Nothing really comes of his catching up- a quick vote on e without much explanation (okay, this is the e vote weve been talking about, wow is that a weak case for Awaclus scumhunting), a little commenting on the MiX/Didds unpleasantness and then the Robz vote that weve discussed to death.

On to day 2.

That was quick day 2 Awaclus has basically just defended himself the whole day. And voted for MiX. I can see where this wagon is coming from. Its a scummy defense for sure.

Im onboard. Totally willing to switch my vote to Awaclus, although I am going to try and make time to reread Faust first, maybe on the this morning. Im going back to sleep for an hour. Im sorry Ive sucked day two.

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I think town!Glooble pointing to something as a scum tell and then shortly thereafter doing that thing is a lot more likely than scum!Glooble doing that.

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Glooble

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Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (Day 2)
« Reply #1126 on: March 08, 2019, 05:05:47 am »

vote: Awaclus

I was going to hold off because this brings the MiX wagon down to two and starts to make non-Awaclus votes seem like a fools errand. But Im confident enough now in my scumread to do that.

We have just over 24 hours. Five people still arent voting at all.
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I think town!Glooble pointing to something as a scum tell and then shortly thereafter doing that thing is a lot more likely than scum!Glooble doing that.

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SpaceAnemone

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Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (Day 2)
« Reply #1127 on: March 08, 2019, 05:18:02 am »

We have just over 24 hours. Five people still arent voting at all.

Huh? The most recent vote count said that the deadline is 8am forum time on Monday. It's currently just after 5am forum time on Friday. That's more than 24 hours even if you use funny maths for weekends.
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Awaclus

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Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (Day 2)
« Reply #1128 on: March 08, 2019, 05:43:47 am »

[quote author=shraeye link=topic=19459.msg793485#msg793485
-His claims of Day1 scumhunting just ring so false.  "I did something weird"...yeah but no followup, no analysis, no cases, no trying to convince anyone of his ideas.
[/quote]

Yeah so I did the pro-town part without doing the part that helps scum more than it helps us.
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MiX

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Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (Day 2)
« Reply #1129 on: March 08, 2019, 05:45:28 am »

vote: Awaclus

What's Awaclus's scum meta? My spidey senses tell me this is the wagon I need to go to not get lynched, but I really don't see these arguments not applying to town!Awaclus.

Everyone can answer this, and please don't just use RMM51, I would like more.

PPE 1: You won't help town if we lynch you because you didn't give us information.
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Awaclus

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Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (Day 2)
« Reply #1130 on: March 08, 2019, 05:45:41 am »

- Good point: Awaclus, if you had to take something out of your vote on e, what would it be? If nothing then your move was pointless.

It was something. I'm not going to tell you though because you're scum.
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Glooble

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Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (Day 2)
« Reply #1131 on: March 08, 2019, 05:48:34 am »

We have just over 24 hours. Five people still arent voting at all.

Huh? The most recent vote count said that the deadline is 8am forum time on Monday. It's currently just after 5am forum time on Friday. That's more than 24 hours even if you use funny maths for weekends.

For some reason I was thinking day would end a week from when day one ended. I forgot about the night.

That makes me feel a lot better.
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I think town!Glooble pointing to something as a scum tell and then shortly thereafter doing that thing is a lot more likely than scum!Glooble doing that.

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faust

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Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (Day 2)
« Reply #1132 on: March 08, 2019, 05:49:18 am »

We have just over 24 hours. Five people still arent voting at all.

Huh? The most recent vote count said that the deadline is 8am forum time on Monday. It's currently just after 5am forum time on Friday. That's more than 24 hours even if you use funny maths for weekends.
Hey Space, how about you vote for someone? Or at least share some thoughts beyond deadline times.
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MiX

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Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (Day 2)
« Reply #1133 on: March 08, 2019, 05:49:27 am »

- Good point: Awaclus, if you had to take something out of your vote on e, what would it be? If nothing then your move was pointless.

It was something. I'm not going to tell you though because you're scum.

You're not in your scum QT, everyone will see what you say, not just me. Also, that's such an easy way to weasel out of answering that it looks scummy. But is it? Why is your meta a mess?
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Awaclus

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Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (Day 2)
« Reply #1134 on: March 08, 2019, 05:51:20 am »

You're not in your scum QT, everyone will see what you say, not just me. Also, that's such an easy way to weasel out of answering that it looks scummy. But is it? Why is your meta a mess?

Yeah, the other scum will see it too. I'm not weaseling out of answering anything, I'd legit rather self-hammer than let scum know my thought process behind voting for e.
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MiX

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Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (Day 2)
« Reply #1135 on: March 08, 2019, 06:08:54 am »

You're not in your scum QT, everyone will see what you say, not just me. Also, that's such an easy way to weasel out of answering that it looks scummy. But is it? Why is your meta a mess?

Yeah, the other scum will see it too. I'm not weaseling out of answering anything, I'd legit rather self-hammer than let scum know my thought process behind voting for e.

That is, quite literally, the definition of anti-town. Because you just told me what you don't want to say in a very obvious way. However, if I am, indeed, correct, then you can't say more. But dying with that information is absolutely pointless. So, make a compelling case on your top scumread (me?) or you're probably getting lynched anyway, so you can say your thought process.

Is that a good deal? Is this how people handle Awaclus? He's weird.
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Awaclus

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Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (Day 2)
« Reply #1136 on: March 08, 2019, 06:11:13 am »

So, make a compelling case on your top scumread (me?) or you're probably getting lynched anyway, so you can say your thought process.

No.
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MiX

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Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (Day 2)
« Reply #1137 on: March 08, 2019, 06:14:39 am »

FoS: Awaclus, I give up, someone else make sense of this. I'm assuming he's always playing a gambit? And it's the same one everytime? But I don't see why anyone would do this.

By the way, still on Swowl because of VCA shenanigans, I'll try to make a post about it later today when I'm at a computer.
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Awaclus

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Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (Day 2)
« Reply #1138 on: March 08, 2019, 06:21:55 am »

FoS: Awaclus, I give up, someone else make sense of this. I'm assuming he's always playing a gambit? And it's the same one everytime? But I don't see why anyone would do this.

Because it's extremely important for scum to have as little information as possible.
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Glooble

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Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (Day 2)
« Reply #1139 on: March 08, 2019, 07:09:22 am »

FoS: Awaclus, I give up, someone else make sense of this. I'm assuming he's always playing a gambit? And it's the same one everytime? But I don't see why anyone would do this.

Because it's extremely important for scum to have as little information as possible.

So if you had your way everyone would just vote and no one would ever explain their votes? How would we ever form reads?

I cant get in Awacluss head. But Last game I took the well other people say hes just like this thing to heart and it lost us the game so this time Im happy to lynch him.
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I think town!Glooble pointing to something as a scum tell and then shortly thereafter doing that thing is a lot more likely than scum!Glooble doing that.

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Awaclus

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Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (Day 2)
« Reply #1140 on: March 08, 2019, 07:28:42 am »

So if you had your way everyone would just vote and no one would ever explain their votes? How would we ever form reads?

1) Yes
2) By scumhunting.
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MiX

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Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (Day 2)
« Reply #1141 on: March 08, 2019, 07:49:29 am »

So if you had your way everyone would just vote and no one would ever explain their votes? How would we ever form reads?

1) Yes
2) By scumhunting.

Do you scumhunt...by voting? And that's helpful because...? With no opinions, votes are shallow, meaningless, random. Your strategy works because others talk about things and react to votes with words. If everyone only voted town would never win, the odds are stacked against us, we need to overcome those with reads, which always come from talking, from sharing information, thought processes, reasons to vote.

Arguing with Awaclus is pointless. I tried to view his playstyle as pro-town, tried to understand his reasoning...but there is none.

Because it's extremely important for scum to have as little information as possible.

Town also needs information. Okay I'll stop now.
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SpaceAnemone

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Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (Day 2)
« Reply #1142 on: March 08, 2019, 08:04:05 am »

We have just over 24 hours. Five people still arent voting at all.

Huh? The most recent vote count said that the deadline is 8am forum time on Monday. It's currently just after 5am forum time on Friday. That's more than 24 hours even if you use funny maths for weekends.
Hey Space, how about you vote for someone? Or at least share some thoughts beyond deadline times.

My main reason for not voting is that I don't have time to do a serious re-read and come up with anything original till tomorrow at the earliest, and I'm not happy sheeping any of the cases I've seen. That's also my reason for being aware of when the deadline is, because I want to have time to contribute but I'm running surprisingly close to exhaustion just now because of life in general.

Question for you, faust: What did you think of my comment that it would be useful to have baseline numbers for the likelihood of at least one scum in a set of n players? Do you agree that it would be town-useful info to have? If so, have you not followed up on it because you too are sorely strapped for time? Or do you think it's more useful to scum than town, but for some reason have decided not to scumread me for suggesting that it would be useful?

PPE 7 because work.
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Town games: M84(L), M85(W), M86(L), M87(W), M88(L), M90(L), M92(W), M94(L), M97(L), M99(W), M100(L), M104(W), M107(W), M110(L), M112(L), RMM37(L), RMM40(D), RMM41(L), RMM43(L), RMM47(W), ZM23(W).
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Awaclus

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Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (Day 2)
« Reply #1143 on: March 08, 2019, 08:10:51 am »

Do you scumhunt...by voting? And that's helpful because...? With no opinions, votes are shallow, meaningless, random. Your strategy works because others talk about things and react to votes with words. If everyone only voted town would never win, the odds are stacked against us, we need to overcome those with reads, which always come from talking, from sharing information, thought processes, reasons to vote.

Yes, you scumhunt by voting and looking at how people react. The only reason why the odds are stacked against town is that everyone always tells scum exactly what they need to do in order to counterplay us, but that's a choice you can stop making.

Town also needs information. Okay I'll stop now.

Yes, but you shouldn't go shouting your most valuable secrets to everyone without thinking just because "hurr durr town needs information". There's information that benefits town and there's information that doesn't. Whatever I think about the e wagon is in the latter category, and the fact that the e wagon formed and people reacted to it is in the former.
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MiX

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Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (Day 2)
« Reply #1144 on: March 08, 2019, 08:14:32 am »

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Awaclus

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Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (Day 2)
« Reply #1145 on: March 08, 2019, 08:16:16 am »

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MiX

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Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (Day 2)
« Reply #1146 on: March 08, 2019, 08:20:43 am »

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faust

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Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (Day 2)
« Reply #1147 on: March 08, 2019, 08:24:10 am »

Question for you, faust: What did you think of my comment that it would be useful to have baseline numbers for the likelihood of at least one scum in a set of n players? Do you agree that it would be town-useful info to have? If so, have you not followed up on it because you too are sorely strapped for time? Or do you think it's more useful to scum than town, but for some reason have decided not to scumread me for suggesting that it would be useful?
I don't think it is particularly useful for anyone. It doesn't hurt, but man there are better things you could do with your time. Calculating the expected number of scum in the setup is already nontrivial because you have to factor in that we had 2 town kills, which makes SK more likely.
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Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (Day 2)
« Reply #1148 on: March 08, 2019, 08:44:01 am »

Yeah, the other scum will see it too. I'm not weaseling out of answering anything, I'd legit rather self-hammer than let scum know my thought process behind voting for e.
Now let us all ponder over what was meant by this. What possible information (besides your role) on night 0 could you have had to share that would have given scum an advantage? I feel like I'm missing one or two steps in this logic train.

In other news, all 3 bandwagons with more than one vote look pretty good to me, especially for information gathering purposes, so for Now I'll VOTE:MiX to keep things relatively even between our frontrunners for our other undecided people in the audience.
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Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (Night 1)
« Reply #1149 on: March 08, 2019, 08:54:19 am »

Of course I have written this to show that the scum!me perspective does not make sense. UoS was implying that I might be scum who NKed Jimmmmm. I am pointing out that scum!me would not have killed Jimmmmm. I don't understand why you think that makes me scum.
Faust raises an interesting point here to keep in mind for future NKs. With two scumteams- it becomes easier for them to frame specific people from outside of whatever scumteam is making their group decision. I definitelywanted to have that angle messing up my head. Thanks Faust, I hate it.
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