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Author Topic: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (GAME OVER, Maquis win!)  (Read 377864 times)

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SpaceAnemone

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Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (Day 2)
« Reply #1100 on: March 07, 2019, 06:38:17 am »

I am suspicious Space's defense of MiX but I can't exactly put my finger on why right at this second (phones are great and terrible all at the same time).
Did you mean Space?  Did I miss this post?

Faust commented in one of his posts that he thinks I have an anti-MiX bias that isn't alignment-related. I agreed that I probably do, and said it's why I haven't voted for MiX so far in D2 because I don't want to let that bias get in the way of good analysis. I also posted an "if I were to be very generous to MiX I could read it this way" sort of interpretation of the way he'd misrepresented raerae, though I thought I'd finished that post off by saying I didn't actually believe it. (Sorry for being vague; I'm work-posting while waiting for some data to copy, but I don't have time to go quoting stuff right now!).

PPE 2 because this post has been sitting in a browser tab for a while because work has been happening.
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2.71828.....

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Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (Day 2)
« Reply #1101 on: March 07, 2019, 06:56:08 am »

Way behind, apologize. Will catch up soon
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UmbrageOfSnow

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Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (Day 2)
« Reply #1102 on: March 07, 2019, 12:27:22 pm »

Eddie's claim makes sense to me and it's weird that we're still talking about it, even if some of that turns out to have been a misunderstanding.

It's terrible for town cops to investigate, get a useless result, and claim it. Outing cops is bad.

It's also silly to automatically lynch him early in the game, it likely makes sense to lynch him strategically before LYLO, but it's possible everyone has a strong townread on him for some reason, or that scum kill him, particularly with the Bus Drive in the game, or that he's lynched for legitimate case reasons, in which case we get way more information from his lynch.
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WestCoastDidds

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Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (Day 2)
« Reply #1103 on: March 07, 2019, 12:35:56 pm »


I have very little to add to the current conversations because today is my busy work day, but I got tickets to the women's world cup matches that I wanted to see this morning, so I am doing the dance of joy!
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I never got to read what Didds said, but whatever she's saying, she's right.

UmbrageOfSnow

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Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (Night 1)
« Reply #1104 on: March 07, 2019, 12:36:04 pm »

Robz should have claimed, not going to apologize for anything about the wagon yesterday, time to find scum today
It's true that Robz misplayed, but that doesn't absolve you from the responsibility of having misread him.

If you look at the Robz wagon, I think the point of no return was when Awaclus voted.
...
Glooble clearly felt that after Awaclus's vote, there was no way for an alternate wagon to succeed. DatSwan is up there too, epsecially because he made it clear that his vote was final, but I really think Awaclus drove this mislynch home. So, we should all be voting Awaclus.

DatSwan voted for Robz at the last minute (because it was the last time he could post before deadline), so it kind of makes sense to switch to a big wagon if you are worried about not getting enough votes to lynch.

Awaclus could still have switched later, but decided to lock in the Robz wagon.



It's past my bedtime; what do you mean with all this?

I was pointing out how faust has been treating Awaclus and e, playing into that feeling expressed by various other people being frustrated about the Robz lynch. It's not just innocently hunting for scum on a mislynch wagon, it's manipulation.

And by the way, it doesn't matter whether a wagon is on town or scum, it matters if the wagon was towny and righteous or scummy and gross. Lynching Robz the Innocent Child was towny and righteous and I'd do it again. My instinct coming into this day was to hunt off wagon.
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faust

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Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (Day 2)
« Reply #1105 on: March 07, 2019, 12:46:40 pm »

Eddie's claim makes sense to me and it's weird that we're still talking about it

*keeps talking about it*
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jotheonah

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Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (Day 1)
« Reply #1106 on: March 07, 2019, 12:47:10 pm »

Vote Count 2.4


"Ensign Nog, reporting for duty sir," the young Ferengi says.

"As you were, Ensign," Dax says with a hint of a smile. "Welcome to Ops. I'm sorry you had to miss the services."

"No problem, sir. Ferengi honor our dead in our own way. And I've already put in the high bid for Jake's personal things and desiccated remains."

"You might find that ... doesn't work that way," Dax says, but the ensign looks skeptical.


MiX (3): raerae, Awaclus, Glooble
Awaclus (4): faust, WestCoastDidds, UncleEurope, shraeye
faust (2): UmbrageOfSnow, ashersky
DatSwan (1): MiX

Not voting (5): 2.71828....., SpaceAnemone, chickenwarlord, EFHW, DatSwan

With 15 alive it takes 8 to lynch most players. Day 2 ends at 8:00 am forum time, Monday March 11th.

Your mod will be V/LA from Friday night to Sunday night. Currently seeking a backup mod (not from among players) to do some vote counts. I will be back at deadline.
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UmbrageOfSnow

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Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (Day 2)
« Reply #1107 on: March 07, 2019, 01:13:49 pm »

Eddie's claim makes sense to me and it's weird that we're still talking about it

*keeps talking about it*

I wish there were a way to fit this into a signature that wouldn't look like garbage.
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MiX

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Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (Day 2)
« Reply #1108 on: March 07, 2019, 01:51:12 pm »

And by the way, it doesn't matter whether a wagon is on town or scum, it matters if the wagon was towny and righteous or scummy and gross. Lynching Robz the Innocent Child was towny and righteous and I'd do it again. My instinct coming into this day was to hunt off wagon.

Hammering was towny. Trying to lynch him in the first place was not. He literally did nothing scummy, everything was null. I know, I know, obvious now, but I do stand by it. It was just a way to get an easy lynch done and pretty much everyone on it was just sheeping e with no real opinions. This is why I was somewhat scumreading e, but it's not his problem, it's the people sheeping him. And of those, you're the main culprit. Unfortunatly, there's more town than scum doing it, so I can't pinpoint where exactly scum is, but I'm pretty sure at least 1 scum's in the initial part of his wagon, because of how easy it was to build up with a SINGLE case. But I digress.


So, hmm...here's an interesting fact...did anyone mention shraeye's end of D1 behaviour? Mostly him moving from ash to LL and then dissapearing...that was weird.

@shraeye, what happened around deadline? Why did you dissapear?
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faust

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Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (Day 2)
« Reply #1109 on: March 07, 2019, 02:00:27 pm »

Hammering was towny.
Why? Do you know ashersky's meta?
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MiX

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Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (Day 2)
« Reply #1110 on: March 07, 2019, 02:02:13 pm »

Hammering was towny.
Why? Do you know ashersky's meta?

What? I meant getting a lynch done...and no, I guess not, I haven't read ash games other than RMM51, or at least I haven't reread any...
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faust

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Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (Day 2)
« Reply #1111 on: March 07, 2019, 02:03:10 pm »

Hammering was towny.
Why? Do you know ashersky's meta?

What? I meant getting a lynch done...and no, I guess not, I haven't read ash games other than RMM51, or at least I haven't reread any...
Okay then, why is getting a lynch done towny?
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MiX

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Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (Day 2)
« Reply #1112 on: March 07, 2019, 02:04:33 pm »

Hammering was towny.
Why? Do you know ashersky's meta?

What? I meant getting a lynch done...and no, I guess not, I haven't read ash games other than RMM51, or at least I haven't reread any...
Okay then, why is getting a lynch done towny?

Because we get information? If we had all that D1 just for no lynch we wouldn't have the information that Robz was town, so there wasn't much to analyze about the wagon.
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UmbrageOfSnow

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Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (Day 2)
« Reply #1113 on: March 07, 2019, 02:06:02 pm »

Interesting. So why was it scummy to vote Robz before the hammer?
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faust

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Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (Day 2)
« Reply #1114 on: March 07, 2019, 02:06:32 pm »

Hammering was towny.
Why? Do you know ashersky's meta?

What? I meant getting a lynch done...and no, I guess not, I haven't read ash games other than RMM51, or at least I haven't reread any...
Okay then, why is getting a lynch done towny?

Because we get information? If we had all that D1 just for no lynch we wouldn't have the information that Robz was town, so there wasn't much to analyze about the wagon.
Would you say that it would be better for scum if Robz hadn't been lynched?
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MiX

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Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (Day 2)
« Reply #1115 on: March 07, 2019, 02:08:30 pm »

Interesting. So why was it scummy to vote Robz before the hammer?

Hmm...because it wasn't obvious that he was the only one that was going to get lynched that day? By the time ash hammered no other wagon was happening. And since Robz was null (to me at least) it was better than no lynch.

Hammering was towny.
Why? Do you know ashersky's meta?

What? I meant getting a lynch done...and no, I guess not, I haven't read ash games other than RMM51, or at least I haven't reread any...
Okay then, why is getting a lynch done towny?

Because we get information? If we had all that D1 just for no lynch we wouldn't have the information that Robz was town, so there wasn't much to analyze about the wagon.
Would you say that it would be better for scum if Robz hadn't been lynched?

Yes. Of course he was IC so no, but without knowing that, yes.
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UmbrageOfSnow

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Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (Day 2)
« Reply #1116 on: March 07, 2019, 02:12:37 pm »

Is there a reason to think votes on mcmcsalot and jimmmmmmmmmmmmmmm are townier than votes on Robz?
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EFHW

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Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (Day 2)
« Reply #1117 on: March 07, 2019, 10:38:30 pm »

Where has Glooble gotten to?
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Uncleeurope

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Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (Day 2)
« Reply #1118 on: March 08, 2019, 01:19:21 am »

Interesting that MiX backed off twice (IIRC) from people but is holding a vote on DatSwowl despite recent occurrences.

Don’t know what to make of that.
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shraeye

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Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (Day 2)
« Reply #1119 on: March 08, 2019, 02:02:05 am »

Okay then, why is getting a lynch done towny?

Because we get information? If we had all that D1 just for no lynch we wouldn't have the information that Robz was town, so there wasn't much to analyze about the wagon.
Siggghhh; I disagree with this in general.  And in this particular case, it's not even true that we would be info-less on Robz.
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shraeye

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Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (Day 2)
« Reply #1120 on: March 08, 2019, 02:02:32 am »


So, hmm...here's an interesting fact...did anyone mention shraeye's end of D1 behaviour? Mostly him moving from ash to LL and then dissapearing...that was weird.

@shraeye, what happened around deadline? Why did you dissapear?
Are you kidding me right now? 
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shraeye

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Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (Day 2)
« Reply #1121 on: March 08, 2019, 02:03:06 am »

Interesting that MiX backed off twice (IIRC) from people but is holding a vote on DatSwowl despite recent occurrences.

Don’t know what to make of that.
I think it's because he got called out for backing off of people, and is now hyper-conscious of it
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shraeye

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Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (Day 2)
« Reply #1122 on: March 08, 2019, 02:15:19 am »

As for the three mini-wagons (wagonettes?) I sympathize with all of the MiX votes and it wouldn't take much to move there, but I don't really find him scummy as much as over-confident. I find Awaclus scummy enough to vote (which I did) because he is doing about as much to scumhunt as he did in the last game when he was scum.  The Eddie votes are okay by me, too.  He is coming into his own as a player and he is projecting more confidence now than when I last played with him. Could be his scum-chops have gotten better honed.

I'm in on Awaclus, sure.  But I'll jump back to MiX lickity split as well.

vote: Awaclus

I have to say, this vote threw me, wasn’t expecting you to throw your vote there. Would you mind explaining why you suspect Awaclus?

Many of the reasons for the vote; first, day was stalling out.  Second, big games require more than one person to give up on their scumread #1 and be willing to consider #2, #3 or even #4. 

Third, because Awaclus IS one of my scumreads:
-gut feeling that the lukerish attitude on Day1 was bad lurking

-His claims of Day1 scumhunting just ring so false.  "I did something weird"...yeah but no followup, no analysis, no cases, no trying to convince anyone of his ideas.  So, I pointed this out.  Awaclus says "REAL townies would do the legwork for themselves."  That's the attitude that has us spinning our wheels right now; if every person just analyzes silently in their head, we'll get so many different versions of a big picture that it will reduce to wagons stalling out at 2-3 people until the final 12 hours where suddenly everybody goes "oh shit!" and starts moving votes randomly and without caring whose wagon they're on.  And then we give out town-passes to everybody in that scramble because #alwayslynch. 
If Awaclus wants a lynch that badly, he should be driving discussion towards his preferences.  If he's not, then he really doesn't care who dies.  And that's scummy.

-weird interaction with MiX
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Glooble

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Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (Day 2)
« Reply #1123 on: March 08, 2019, 04:30:31 am »

Where has Glooble gotten to?

Day job has been killing me this week, haven’t had time to reread. I don’t have any strong scumreads, which is making it hard for me to devote the energy to pushing a case. But ugh- six hours with no activity at all? We are stalling out just before deadline with nothing approaching a consensus and that did not end well for us day one. We need to step up our game in a big way.
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I think town!Glooble pointing to something as a scum tell and then shortly thereafter doing that thing is a lot more likely than scum!Glooble doing that.

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MiX

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Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (Day 2)
« Reply #1124 on: March 08, 2019, 04:34:00 am »


So, hmm...here's an interesting fact...did anyone mention shraeye's end of D1 behaviour? Mostly him moving from ash to LL and then dissapearing...that was weird.

@shraeye, what happened around deadline? Why did you dissapear?
Are you kidding me right now?

Did you mention this earlier? I didn't find it. But I admit I could be wrong...I did look for it this time, but mistakes happen.


- He said that he was V/LA for half of D1, this plus Awaclus' usual activity gives the impression that he was heavily lurking.

- Good point: Awaclus, if you had to take something out of your vote on e, what would it be? If nothing then your move was pointless.

- I fail to see how that would implicate anyone but me? His interaction's null (his answers are towny, however).

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