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[Glooble]

Glooble - What are your thoughts on Awaclus/Faust. Not in the context it has being talked about, that is a happenstance, I just want to know what you think.

I'm very bad at reading Awaclus, but he's null to me right now. I correctly called him as scum last game, so part of me feels that if he was scum this game I would be scumreading him, but maybe he's changed it up.

I'm not sure I agree with faust that Awaclus's wagon position is particularly scummy - I think you can certainly make the case that he felt like no other lynch was viable. I think if we're going to lynch based on wagon position it should be someone a bit earlier on the wagon. At the same time I recognize that's kind of an arbitrary line to draw. So I don't read faust's pushing of his case as scummy. On the whole I've found faust helpful this game, and I would say I give him a slight townread.

[Uncleeurope]

Regardless, as you saw to the reaction to my claim it didn’t dismantle suspicion from me, it added to it.

I have to stop you right here, claiming made you completely unlynchable D1 and you know that. I don't believe you didn't know this. It was also the first thing you said, there was nothing to "add".

FoS: Uncle, for that lie. Won't vote because he's Hated and I have to reread his D1, I mostly ignored him...

It made me unlynchable, sure, but it also increased people’s awareness of my presence, which seems like a bad trade off for a Day1 pass.

It wasn’t a lie by any stretch.


I also dislike this FoS format, it confuses me.

[MiX]

Regardless, as you saw to the reaction to my claim it didn’t dismantle suspicion from me, it added to it.

I have to stop you right here, claiming made you completely unlynchable D1 and you know that. I don't believe you didn't know this. It was also the first thing you said, there was nothing to "add".

FoS: Uncle, for that lie. Won't vote because he's Hated and I have to reread his D1, I mostly ignored him...

It made me unlynchable, sure, but it also increased people’s awareness of my presence, which seems like a bad trade off for a Day1 pass.

It wasn’t a lie by any stretch.


I also dislike this FoS format, it confuses me.

Do you truly believe scum!you would always, beyond a shadow of a doubt, try to lay low D1? If not, I fail to see how the claim would come more from town!you than scum!you, you essencially get to do whatever you want with no way for people to apply pressure on you. That looks like a really good trade off for scum, especially when there's no downside. If you truly are Gul, you know you're going to get policy lynched eventually, so postponing that as much as possible is pretty much the only thing you can do. The easiest way to do it is to become unlynchable D1, at least you're guaranteed to live a day.

And if I was scum I wouldn’t have claimed it, I would have gotten a partner to claim it.

Looking closer, this is also not true: if the real Gul gets lynched, you would die on the spot. What scum would do this tactic? Especially when the real Gul might get NKd so you can't even rely on their unlynchability. There's no way you didn't think about this, yet that's what you want it to look like.

FoS' a fun way to vote people, or would you rather me Vote: Uncle? I still haven't reread Uncle's D1 but these answers are weird for someone who had all N0 to think about how to best use their role.

[Uncleeurope]

I didn’t make the connection that killing me day1 was bad when I claimed.

And if I know I am getting policy lynched eventually, the easiest thing I can do is NEVER claim it because then it might prolong it more than a day. So I don’t get your point there.

But you are right, some versions of scum!me would claim, others would not.

Are you saying that you think you would claim as scum or town more? Do you think I would claim more as scum or town?

Regardless of any disagreement you have with me, scum!me wouldn’t lie this casually here.

And honestly, you have a direct comparison to my scum play, and it ain’t this.


And yes, I would prefer you vote me.

[jotheonah]

Vote Count 2.3


Some flavor to come later, probably.


MiX (4): raerae, Shraeye, Awaclus, Glooble
Awaclus (3): faust, WestCoastDidds, UncleEurope
faust (1): UmbrageOfSnow
UncleEurope (2): DatSwan, MiX


Not voting (5): 2.71828....., SpaceAnemone, chickenwarlord, ashersky, EFHW

With 15 alive it takes 8 to lynch most players. Day 2 ends at 8:00 am forum time, Monday March 11th.

[Glooble]

joth, you missed that I'm voting for MiX.

[Glooble]

Wait no you didn't, you just also have me as not voting.

Fixed.

[jotheonah]

I meant to do that as a reply. Oops.

[Uncleeurope]

I meant to do that as a reply. Oops.

You don’t know your own strength.

[WestCoastDidds]

Holy cow!  There are still an incredible number of people in this game.  I keep getting confused about who has said what, and then other people get confused and then its all jumble-y, and the folks who arent saying much are sliding off my radar completely.

DatSwan, I am glad that you are feeling better.  Being sick sucks.

MiX, in #1045 you said LL/Space but I think you mean LL/EFHW, yeah?

I like what DatSwan is saying and I appreciate the ability to cut through the chaff.  EFHW might be able to help in that regard as well.  I also find Awaclus description of "picking up the loot" quite charming.  I sympathize with Asher saying that none of us are playing well, but I am stymied by what we/I can do better. Is there some reasonable course of action beyond re-reading 43 pages of game and trying to parse the MiX mega-posts to get going?

As for the three mini-wagons (wagonettes?) I sympathize with all of the MiX votes and it wouldn't take much to move there, but I don't really find him scummy as much as over-confident. I find Awaclus scummy enough to vote (which I did) because he is doing about as much to scumhunt as he did in the last game when he was scum.  The Eddie votes are okay by me, too.  He is coming into his own as a player and he is projecting more confidence now than when I last played with him. Could be his scum-chops have gotten better honed.

I'd like to hear what e, Space, and EFHW make of the last day or so..or anything else.

tl;dr: I feel overwhelmed. Help.

[MiX]

I didn’t make the connection that killing me day1 was bad when I claimed.

Really? I don't believe it. What did you think of the UB in N0?

And if I know I am getting policy lynched eventually, the easiest thing I can do is NEVER claim it because then it might prolong it more than a day. So I don’t get your point there.

You're right, I forgot you can just claim at L-2 on D1 to not die.

Are you saying that you think you would claim as scum or town more? Do you think I would claim more as scum or town?

I think the claim's null, I see both town and scum deciding to claim/not claim, the benefits of claiming are essencially null.

And honestly, you have a direct comparison to my scum play, and it ain’t this.

I haven't actually reread M121 past D1, maybe I should do that...

And yes, I would prefer you vote me.

I don't anymore. Vote: Swan

PPE 1

[MiX]

Something I almost forgot:

So what about those 2 quotes made you feel Robz was scummy?

Also, Jimmmmmm, LL and Space had support too, why didn't you go there? (in D1)

what were your scumreads when you voted Robz? Surely it wasn't just him, right?

Questions for chicken that I think they missed because they were buried.


Now what Didds said:

- No, I meant LL/Space, I'll start saying EFHW from now on. I also said Space because EFHW and Space were the other viable wagons when Awaclus voted.

- Is that what ash said? It's not like town's job is to look super towny to everyone all the time, the priority is catching scum, looking towny just help us win 1v1s and get people to sheep our cases.

- Can you point to moment in RMM51's D1 where Awaclus scumhunted? I'll try to find some myself.

[Uncleeurope]

I didn’t think about the UB on N0

I was busy with the other game.

[MiX]

I didn’t think about the UB on N0

I was busy with the other game.

That's a lame answer. You're lame. Now I need to read town!Uncle games too. Anyway...

Darn everything, I was planning on just coming out of the gate claiming Gul, but now because you people talked about it so much, it is much less exciting.

I claim Gul.

I am pretty sure it is the correct play as well.

How sure were you? How much did you plan?

[Uncleeurope]

I tossed around claiming vs not claiming during N0, didn’t think about anything other than that. But I can’t say that I thought about past decided I would do it. So I was sure enough to do it, and sill think it was the correct play.

And yeah, I am a lame person. I don’t think much about this game until the previous one ended. You will note I starated posting more after that point.

[EFHW]

@Eddie,  can you please summarize why it was the correct play in your mind?

[Uncleeurope]

I already did up a few posts under DatSwans case, but yeah.

I didn’t want to have to do a quick claim at L-2, and I was concerned people would accidentally lynch me.

I didn’t want people to spend cops on me.

I thought it was the most interesting play to do.

One reason for that is I wanted to see who wanted to lynch me the most, despite me being townand starting that conversation could be helpful. Because in theory scum want to lynch me over NKing me so need to keep me as a scum read regardless of anything else. Obviously that is more for my benefit now, and wanting to kill me isn’t 100% indicative of alignment, but it gives me something to do ther than being vanilla.

But the first two points are why I made the decision, the last is a perk.

[Chickenwarlord]

So what about those 2 quotes made you feel Robz was scummy?

Also, Jimmmmmm, LL and Space had support too, why didn't you go there? (in D1)

what were your scumreads when you voted Robz? Surely it wasn't just him, right?

At the time I might have voted for Jimmmmm. I did not feel that LL was scum at all. Was feeling pretty null on Space at the time who had at least been siding with WCD (who I still think has been playing pretty Station-alligned)

I was in fact decently against a lynch until Robz posted those two quotes. The first being a 'no matter how much people are discussing me, no one wants to actually throw the votes my way' and the second being a 'you shouldn't throw your vote at things that aren't going to happen' - which in this case was poetic injustice. The combination of two read as a bit of a challenge.


Eddie's last minute vote-hopping stood out as a way to keep options open, but at the time I believe the only other realistic wagon was Space, who I was definitely not down to lynch at that point.

[UmbrageOfSnow]

At the time I might have voted for Jimmmmm. I did not feel that LL was scum at all. Was feeling pretty null on Space at the time who had at least been siding with WCD (who I still think has been playing pretty Station-alligned)...

I believe the only other realistic wagon was Space, who I was definitely not down to lynch at that point.

So if you were null on Space, why didn't you want to lynch them?

Why were you townreading LL?

Does EFHW's entrance to the game change anything for you on that slot?

[WestCoastDidds]

Chicken- are you having to do a captcha every time you post?  If so, that is a huge hassle.  Go here http://forum.dominionstrategy.com/index.php?board=24.0 and post anything at all and then you will be able to post without the rigamarole.

[Uncleeurope]

Also, WCD, could you explain exactly why I am on your radar? Is it just the claim? Is my behavior a factor? Is it my voting?

[UmbrageOfSnow]

Robz should have claimed, not going to apologize for anything about the wagon yesterday, time to find scum today

It's true that Robz misplayed, but that doesn't absolve you from the responsibility of having misread him.

If you look at the Robz wagon, I think the point of no return was when Awaclus voted.
...
Glooble clearly felt that after Awaclus's vote, there was no way for an alternate wagon to succeed. DatSwan is up there too, epsecially because he made it clear that his vote was final, but I really think Awaclus drove this mislynch home. So, we should all be voting Awaclus.

DatSwan voted for Robz at the last minute (because it was the last time he could post before deadline), so it kind of makes sense to switch to a big wagon if you are worried about not getting enough votes to lynch.

Awaclus could still have switched later, but decided to lock in the Robz wagon.

[UmbrageOfSnow]

I feel like NK analysis is more useful here than normally.

Another thing: faust was scumreading Jimmmmmm, people looking at NKs and looking for possible scumhunting scum might notice this. By pointing it out, faust sort of hangs a lantern on it and takes potential pressure off.

I actually agree with whoever it was (DatSwowl?) that said that NK analysis is probably less useful than average right now, but I find it scummy that faust is worried about it.

[Chickenwarlord]

So if you were null on Space, why didn't you want to lynch them?

Is null not the term used to describe no  strong read one way or another? I don't think it is all that surprising that I'd vote for somebody I strongly suspected of being scum over a new last minute bandwagon for somebody I had no feelings one way or another for.

[Swowl]

TLDR (as requested) - I cannot find a reason to claim GF in this set up on Day 1 as Town.

Your argument above the "tl;dr" part is based a lot around counter-claiming (I assume that's what you're using "CC" for in this context) and ignoring the "hated" aspect. Moreover, you're ignoring the fact that by the time Eddie came into the thread and claimed, there had already been a discussion about whether Glu Dukat should claim. Do you think that pro-Dukat-claim people earlier in the thread deserve some portion of the scumpoints you're allocating to Eddie here?

Additionally, are you really expecting scum to want to counterclaim a role here, when roles are assigned independent of alignments? My gut says that would be a pretty weird move when any scum must have a guaranteed safe fakeclaim by just claiming their own role, so the fact that your suspicion on Eddie seems to be based on counterclaims seems odd. If anyone has been copped, it's a one-v-one situation in terms of who we believe (cop with guilty result or person the result is on) whether or not there are additional role-claim-stealing issues on top of it, so why would scum make things even more complicated and incriminating for themselves?

1) I do not think anyone discussing anything set up related deserve any skum points awarded. That is not specific to this game, but to most games in general. My line is pretty clearly drawn between "talking about potentially claiming" vs "the person of that role actually claiming".

2) Example on why I think the hated part would work in favor of a skum claim:

Regardless, as you saw to the reaction to my claim it didn’t dismantle suspicion from me, it added to it.

I have to stop you right here, claiming made you completely unlynchable D1 and you know that. I don't believe you didn't know this. It was also the first thing you said, there was nothing to "add".

FoS: Uncle, for that lie. Won't vote because he's Hated and I have to reread his D1, I mostly ignored him...

3) In regards to all the counter claiming (yes that is my CC acronym) - you say "why would skum make it more complicated and incriminating?". Not to like answer a question with a question - but why would town make it more complicated and incriminating? I am not saying that I find a particularly high volume of good reasons why skum would act this way.... but I do not see reason for town to do so.