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Author Topic: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (GAME OVER, Maquis win!)  (Read 377309 times)

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faust

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Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (Day 2)
« Reply #1025 on: March 06, 2019, 12:49:27 am »

Faust is 2.7ing. As in, Faust today is mimicking 2.7 of Day 1, only with Awa instead of Robz.  It’s so oddly jarring that it feels intentional.
Why would I want to do that?
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faust

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Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (Day 2)
« Reply #1026 on: March 06, 2019, 12:51:50 am »

What do you have to say about Awaclus that's scummy that doesn't apply to Swan?
Awaclus is Awaclus.

Touché.

No, but seriously.
If you want something else, DatSwan voted for Robz at the last minute (because it was the last time he could post before deadline), so it kind of makes sense to switch to a big wagon if you are worried about not getting enough votes to lynch.

Awaclus could still have switched later, but decided to lock in the Robz wagon.
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Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (Day 2)
« Reply #1027 on: March 06, 2019, 01:46:36 am »

Vote: Awaclus
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Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (Day 2)
« Reply #1028 on: March 06, 2019, 02:08:32 am »

I am almost certain at this point that either Faust or Awaclus are scum, and we won't know which one is which the bodies hit the floor.

I can definitely see the vibrant case against MiX, but I feel like the polarizing way he's been playing means it theoretically shouldn't be hard to get a bandwagon together after the next night session if the FoS still swings his way after all is said and done.

Honestly, I think Datswan's just a bit preoccupied - sure the inactivity could be scummy - but I think it's more just life being life.

I doubt we'll get any more true info as it's far too early to claim any sort of cop - especially in multiball.
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Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (Day 2)
« Reply #1029 on: March 06, 2019, 03:12:27 am »

Apologies. Have been sick and/or busy with work.

Caught up now. To break it down....

Through the end of Day 1:

- We don't know what the set up is, and neither does the skum team. The only player that could potentially know the actual set up is the potential SK. If it is two skum teams, they are both in the dark as much as we are. I think that this makes the NK analysis a little less significant at this point. We have to jump beyond the normal WIFOM and move in to "WIFOM plus WIFOM based on what the skum teams thought". That is like WIFOM inception. Not worth it at this point imo.

- The Godfather claim - this makes no sense to me. If you are godfather and claim as town prior to your search... I just don't get it. If Town searches you then their MUST be a discussion to be had later for you to be lynched. At that point you get to claim. In this set up, there is either another claim as town or skum, or there is no other claim as skum. No reason for Town to not CC. So, Town claim just either sets up suspicion or a CC. But skum can do it knowing that the only outcome will be suspicion, followed by no CC. Also, town would have to factor in the likelihood that skum would try to CC at all, so really I just don't get it.

- I do not think the Ashes hammer is particularly skummy or towny. Null on it.

- I think the MiX vote move is strange, when they went to space and then later intent to hammer on Robz. I  say that because Robz had no presence Day 1. So while I would get "not voting Robz" originally, because you had a TR on them... what could lead to that TR?

- MiX is playing Towny through Day 1. So, all of that suspicion puts me at null when combined with that.

There was a lot more of Day 1, but those seem to be my key take away points.

Day 2 coming shortly....
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Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (Day 2)
« Reply #1030 on: March 06, 2019, 03:16:27 am »

Follow up: My top pick based on D1 is Eddie.
What do you have to say about Awaclus that's scummy that doesn't apply to Swan?
Awaclus is Awaclus.

Touché.

No, but seriously.
If you want something else, DatSwan voted for Robz at the last minute (because it was the last time he could post before deadline), so it kind of makes sense to switch to a big wagon if you are worried about not getting enough votes to lynch.

Awaclus could still have switched later, but decided to lock in the Robz wagon.

This all beyond nonsense for I assume both of you, but I at least know for faust... It is an 18 person game - SOMEONE was going to get lynched. Skum would hide off the wagon in my spot if anything. Not plant a vote and stay there. I agree with the Awaclus is Awaclus concept at this point, but the fact that you try to drag me into it is lame.
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Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (Day 2)
« Reply #1031 on: March 06, 2019, 03:19:11 am »

Follow up: My top pick based on D1 is Eddie.
What do you have to say about Awaclus that's scummy that doesn't apply to Swan?
Awaclus is Awaclus.

Touché.

No, but seriously.
If you want something else, DatSwan voted for Robz at the last minute (because it was the last time he could post before deadline), so it kind of makes sense to switch to a big wagon if you are worried about not getting enough votes to lynch.

Awaclus could still have switched later, but decided to lock in the Robz wagon.

This all beyond nonsense for I assume both of you, but I at least know for faust... It is an 18 person game - SOMEONE was going to get lynched. Skum would hide off the wagon in my spot if anything. Not plant a vote and stay there. I agree with the Awaclus is Awaclus concept at this point, but the fact that you try to drag me into it is lame.

EDIT: I just re read and realized I was thinking the wrong players were saying what I was reading in the quote. I still agree with the "Awaclus is Awaclus" bit. And I still don't think faust should be dragging me into it.... but for those reading closely.. a concept apology.
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Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (Day 2)
« Reply #1032 on: March 06, 2019, 03:27:51 am »

My big problem with the game so far is no one is particularly towny in the way I feel comfortable completely taking them off the table.

Some players have done towny things. No players have set themselves apart as “good.” 

So I’m struggling to separate the wheat.

On Robz, yeah he def misplayed. His last post came at a time when he should have realized the risk of being lynch outweighed any benefit he thought he’d get from waiting to activate his IC.

Because of that, I can’t give the Robz mislynch any more weight than a normal mislynch.

This shouldn't seem strange to a player as experienced as you. It is a multi-ball. Town SHOULD find it hard to identify towny players because of the multiple factions. Strange for you to feel the need to mention this.
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Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (Day 2)
« Reply #1033 on: March 06, 2019, 03:32:39 am »

all - I keep reading more and more and seeing more and more suspicion on me based on lack of content.

I had no idea that my quota was so high. Not saying it has been anything but low, but please please... not lurking. I was sick. I had wicked work shit come up. I am back in it now. If you find me skum, please find me so for a reason other than not being active.
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Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (Day 2)
« Reply #1034 on: March 06, 2019, 03:38:32 am »

My big problem with the game so far is no one is particularly towny in the way I feel comfortable completely taking them off the table.

Some players have done towny things. No players have set themselves apart as “good.” 

So I’m struggling to separate the wheat.

On Robz, yeah he def misplayed. His last post came at a time when he should have realized the risk of being lynch outweighed any benefit he thought he’d get from waiting to activate his IC.

Because of that, I can’t give the Robz mislynch any more weight than a normal mislynch.

Well yeah, but you should still do the normal "wheat separation". People would not normally know if Robz was IC or not until he decided to announce it. From any Skum PoV, Robz was just "not on their team". Obviously, no one should factor in the fact that Robz was the IC... but I mean, you are just saying that and then also saying nothing about his mislynch. Assume Robz was VT... what would your thoughts be?
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Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (Day 2)
« Reply #1035 on: March 06, 2019, 03:40:29 am »

The bigger issue is the playing off town's frustration at lynching one of the most valuable PRs (who did misplay), we should all be mad at the Robz lynch and look around to assign blame as a means of scumhunting seems to be the position faust is taking, and it's irrational and he knows it. It's manipulative.
also, faust saying raerae's reads and my reads were just copies from last game seemed both disingenuous and a really ham-fisted way to cast doubt on our reads.

That's two counts of faust manipulating.

I actually agree with this. This seems like Faust is attempting to promote people to fixate on something they could not have had knowledge of. Obv Robz effed up... but no one knew that until it happened.
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Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (Day 2)
« Reply #1036 on: March 06, 2019, 03:43:55 am »

Glooble - What are your thoughts on Awaclus/Faust. Not in the context it has being talked about, that is a happenstance, I just want to know what you think.
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Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (Day 2)
« Reply #1037 on: March 06, 2019, 04:10:57 am »

Yeah I got to go with

Vote: Eddie


If you are town!godfather then the only downside is in the late game someone CC's as skum... and as cop. It would be completely reasonable for us to assume, if it came up, that a town!cop checked the GF and got a Skum result. We would have no reason to jump to a set up claim. So, we would be left with the simplicity of whether Eddie was Skum!GF or Town!GF. If we get a CC out of it that is just gravy. This strikes me as something skum would do to avoid being looked at. Not as something town would do thinking it would help. What is to be gained of it? They claim GF.... sooooo... there is no point in checking them if you are a cop?-- This also brings up another point. Since there are gtd to be two skum teams in some form, it means the the cop checking for that faction (I think at least). Not super relevant but worth noting.


TLDR (as requested) - I cannot find a reason to claim GF in this set up on Day 1 as Town.

All in all I just don't get it. The power for Town in this set up lies in the set up... we know who exists! By claiming so early, you just create suspicion. As opposed to claiming after you are possibly copped... it only creates the same suspicion or, in a good situation, pulls a CC. Assuming all skum is smart enough to avoid the CC, as once should, why would you voice it and create the suspicion this early in the game?
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Uncleeurope

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Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (Day 2)
« Reply #1038 on: March 06, 2019, 04:41:32 am »

I didn’t want to have to worry about having to claim between normal L-2 and L-1, a jump that most players don’t think about.

I didn’t want people to waste cop results.


Is your case on me is simply that you disagree with the claim? And if I was scum I wouldn’t have claimed it, I would have gotten a partner to claim it. Which I guess is technically a scenario that would work if one of my partners was the real GF... Regardless, as you saw to the reaction to my claim it didn’t dismantle suspicion from me, it added to it. And as you said, why would I claim early to create suspicion as scum? Do you think a claim is more likely as scum despite this?

I dunno what to tell you, man. Dunno why I’m the guy you are concerned with lynching out of everyone.

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Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (Day 2)
« Reply #1039 on: March 06, 2019, 04:59:00 am »

Also, can’t pull the quote on my phone here, but regarding your opinions on Ashes hammer, I don’t find the hammer to be either alignment, him assuming we would see it as scummy seems scummy to me.
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Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (Day 2)
« Reply #1040 on: March 06, 2019, 05:37:22 am »

Regardless, as you saw to the reaction to my claim it didn’t dismantle suspicion from me, it added to it.

I have to stop you right here, claiming made you completely unlynchable D1 and you know that. I don't believe you didn't know this. It was also the first thing you said, there was nothing to "add".

FoS: Uncle, for that lie. Won't vote because he's Hated and I have to reread his D1, I mostly ignored him...
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Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (Day 2)
« Reply #1041 on: March 06, 2019, 06:02:16 am »

I strongly agree with shraeye here. That whole interaction between Awaclus and MiX honestly felt staged. Like I don't see the logic in Awaclus's answers and I have a really hard time seeing where MiX finds them convincing.

Okay, this is kind of stream-of-consciousness, but reading MiX's day 2 play there is a lot of pushing something and immediately backing off when any pressure is put on that assertion. It happens with raerae, and then it happens with Awaclus even faster. My gut reaction is that that's scummy.

Okay, time to shed some light on the Awaclus thing. I had a nullread on him, Awaclus-null; that is, he did nothing and that's consistent with his meta. When he said that he was scumhunting, I asked what, exactly, he had done. He pointed to something that I fully believe town!Awaclus would think is pro-town and would do while I'm not so sure scum!Awaclus would. He also justified his vote on me well, because he didn't just say "I'm scummy" or something. So that made me townread him, because I saw things town!Awaclus does. He doesn't do much, so I have to read him based on what he actually does, you might think this is minor but it's relatively big.

If I'm pushing raerae on a (admittedly) weak case, I'm scumread ("omg he's blatantly lying to town"). If I back off, I'm scumread ("omg he's being wishywashy with his pushing and scumreads!"). Pick one, I can't do neither! I had thoughts in the night and I wanted to put them to the test, I did, they failed the test, so I backed off. Reading the Awaclus interaction as backing off is also wrong, because I never actually had a scumread on him, but I already said that above.

then he just totally missed why I voted for jimmmmm even though he apparently reread the day and explained it (incorrectly) right before asking me why I voted for jimmmm.

I knew you had sheeped faust, I just wanted to know WHY. And you answered it: lack of scumreads. So I was happy.

What do you have to say about Awaclus that's scummy that doesn't apply to Swan?
Awaclus is Awaclus.

Touché.

No, but seriously.
If you want something else, DatSwan voted for Robz at the last minute (because it was the last time he could post before deadline), so it kind of makes sense to switch to a big wagon if you are worried about not getting enough votes to lynch.

Awaclus could still have switched later, but decided to lock in the Robz wagon.

LL's wagon was at 4 votes, Robz' was at 5, he could easily vote LL...actually, @Swan, why didn't you vote LL?
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Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (Day 2)
« Reply #1042 on: March 06, 2019, 06:04:22 am »

I am almost certain at this point that either Faust or Awaclus are scum, and we won't know which one is which the bodies hit the floor.

I'm not at all certain that either you or faust is scum.
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Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (Day 2)
« Reply #1043 on: March 06, 2019, 06:34:11 am »

The bigger issue is the playing off town's frustration at lynching one of the most valuable PRs (who did misplay), we should all be mad at the Robz lynch and look around to assign blame as a means of scumhunting seems to be the position faust is taking, and it's irrational and he knows it. It's manipulative.
also, faust saying raerae's reads and my reads were just copies from last game seemed both disingenuous and a really ham-fisted way to cast doubt on our reads.

That's two counts of faust manipulating.

I actually agree with this. This seems like Faust is attempting to promote people to fixate on something they could not have had knowledge of. Obv Robz effed up... but no one knew that until it happened.
Someone knew that Roby wasn't on their team.
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Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (Day 2)
« Reply #1044 on: March 06, 2019, 06:38:47 am »

LL's wagon was at 4 votes, Robz' was at 5, he could easily vote LL...actually, @Swan, why didn't you vote LL?
Yes but that is only scummy if you thinkk LaLight was scum. In which case you should vote for EFHW, not DatSwan.
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Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (Day 2)
« Reply #1045 on: March 06, 2019, 06:44:53 am »

LL's wagon was at 4 votes, Robz' was at 5, he could easily vote LL...actually, @Swan, why didn't you vote LL?
Yes but that is only scummy if you thinkk LaLight was scum. In which case you should vote for EFHW, not DatSwan.

Voting LL wouldn't lock in any lynch. Now you'll say that only matters if LL is scum, to which I reply, same thing for Awaclus' vote, except here it's only if LL/Space is scum. Am I right?
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Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (Day 2)
« Reply #1046 on: March 06, 2019, 07:39:22 am »

TLDR (as requested) - I cannot find a reason to claim GF in this set up on Day 1 as Town.

Your argument above the "tl;dr" part is based a lot around counter-claiming (I assume that's what you're using "CC" for in this context) and ignoring the "hated" aspect. Moreover, you're ignoring the fact that by the time Eddie came into the thread and claimed, there had already been a discussion about whether Glu Dukat should claim. Do you think that pro-Dukat-claim people earlier in the thread deserve some portion of the scumpoints you're allocating to Eddie here?

Additionally, are you really expecting scum to want to counterclaim a role here, when roles are assigned independent of alignments? My gut says that would be a pretty weird move when any scum must have a guaranteed safe fakeclaim by just claiming their own role, so the fact that your suspicion on Eddie seems to be based on counterclaims seems odd. If anyone has been copped, it's a one-v-one situation in terms of who we believe (cop with guilty result or person the result is on) whether or not there are additional role-claim-stealing issues on top of it, so why would scum make things even more complicated and incriminating for themselves?
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Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (Day 2)
« Reply #1047 on: March 06, 2019, 07:46:52 am »

LL's wagon was at 4 votes, Robz' was at 5, he could easily vote LL...actually, @Swan, why didn't you vote LL?
Yes but that is only scummy if you thinkk LaLight was scum. In which case you should vote for EFHW, not DatSwan.

Voting LL wouldn't lock in any lynch. Now you'll say that only matters if LL is scum, to which I reply, same thing for Awaclus' vote, except here it's only if LL/Space is scum. Am I right?
No, I just think that from a meta perspective Awaclus is way more likely to make that move as scum.
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Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (Day 2)
« Reply #1048 on: March 06, 2019, 07:48:47 am »

TLDR (as requested) - I cannot find a reason to claim GF in this set up on Day 1 as Town.
Come now, I'm sure you can do better than vote for someone on a theory disagreement.
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Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (Day 2)
« Reply #1049 on: March 06, 2019, 07:50:03 am »

No, I just think that from a meta perspective Awaclus is way more likely to make that move as scum.

To make sure a lynch goes through?
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