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[faust]

Wow I'm still alive.

@joth: It would be a quality of life improvement if the roles that people had were revealed in the flip. Going back to the setup post is a bit tedious.

[MiX]

I'm alive D2! That's new.

Now that we're not at deadline I can adress all the things that have been said about me.

I won't lie and say that I didn't mean to say what I said. Instead, I'll acknowledge that I shouldn't have said it. I have no idea what I can do to make up for it other than apologize, as I can't really go back and not do that. So, Didds, I'm sorry. I'm also sorry to everyone because of the mess this created in the thread and it's definitly something that no one wants. If you have further things to say about this, say it now, I won't go over D1 to talk about everything there.

Also I hope I wasn't (part of) the reason LaLight left and he was just busy, which makes sense given what he did D1 anyway.

Okay, now...let's get down to business.

So we lynched literally the only role that couldn't get lynched, because anything else would mean UB inherited it, which would mean we would be left with the same roles PR wise. At least UB poses a really big threat to scum with 2 powerful PRs, but yeah, we lost 2 really good PRs.

e's obviously a really obvious person to scumread seeing as he single-handidly got Robz lynched (let's be honest, he did, he was really persuasive) and I think it's easier for scum to pull so many people to their wagon of choice since they have 2 guaranteed people supporting them.

Still scumreading Space for what they did D1, nothing changed there.

Anyone have Really Important Night Actions they want to claim? Otherwise let's just talk about what happened with the votes near deadline, I wrote them down but haven't analyzed them yet...


Oh, and obvious "yeah I knew Robz wagon was bad!" comment that means nothing.

PPE 1: Not first again Also I agree

[faust]

I feel like NK analysis is more useful here than normally.

[WestCoastDidds]

To make life easier:

Captain Benjamin Sisko -- roleblocker (Mcmcsalot)
Major Kira Nerys -- 1-shot vigilante (if town)/1-shot bulletproof (if scum) (Jimmmmm)

[WestCoastDidds]

Whoops, sorry...Joth went and added it.  (Thank you!)

[faust]

Since I did not see this answered anywhere...

If a scum UB inherits Kira Nerys's role, will they be 1-shot Vig or 1-shot BP?

[2.71828.....]

I am alive D2!

All the cool people seemed to be celebrating.

Robz should have claimed, not going to apologize for anything about the wagon yesterday, time to find scum today

[WestCoastDidds]

MiX, thank you for the apology. We're good.  Onward!

[MiX]

I am alive D2!

All the cool people seemed to be celebrating.

Robz should have claimed, not going to apologize for anything about the wagon yesterday, time to find scum today

I feel like the correct move is to vote for you right now.

Tell me, how do you think Robz's wagon got so big?

PPE 1: Thank you for your forgiveness.

[faust]

Robz should have claimed, not going to apologize for anything about the wagon yesterday, time to find scum today

It's true that Robz misplayed, but that doesn't absolve you from the responsibility of having misread him.

[Glooble]

Forgive me if this was already answered, but what would happen if scum inherited the IC role?

[jotheonah]

Forgive me if this was already answered, but what would happen if scum inherited the IC role?

Can't happen, because IC is unheritable for exactly that reason. UB inherited Kira or Sisko's power, chosen at random and revealed to the UB and to no one else.

Since I did not see this answered anywhere...

If a scum UB inherits Kira Nerys's role, will they be 1-shot Vig or 1-shot BP?

This has been previously answered, but got left out of the additions in the setup post. UB would inherit 1-shot vig, regardless of UB's alignment. A scum vigilante would get an additional nightkill one night.

[jotheonah]

EFHW has replaced LaLight!

[Glooble]

LaLight (2): Shraeye, Robz888
Robz888 (10): 2.71828....., WestCoastDidds, UmbrageofSnow, SpaceAnemone, chickenwarlord, DatSwan, Awaclus, Glooble, Jimmmmm, ashersky
Jimmmmm (1): raerae
raerae (1): mcmcsalot
2.71828..... (1): LaLight
SpaceAnemone (3): faust, Uncleeurope, MiX

Okay, Glooble's wagon recap/analysis, take one.

e started the Robz wagon and pushed it hard. Isn't scum!e more subtle then that? The boldness with which he defended his read, even though it was wrong, makes me actually think he's town.

Uncleeurope then votes for Robz, though he later unvotes. Didds is the next Robz vote. She doesn't offer much explanation- she later switches to LL, then back to Robz, saying she's just committed to a lynch- fair, I was too. It's weird, though, that at the point when she says this the only one voting for Robz is e.

UoS gets on the wagon next, saying nothing more substantial about the decision than "Baaaaaaah", then UncleEurope again- he's really on and off this wagon. Not sure that's scummy but it's worth noting.

Space votes Robz next, after posting a reads list. I'm gonna quote part of it because I found it a little weird:

Robz888 -- Actually, his inactivity here doesn't feel totally like it did in RMM51. Here he seems to be reading and sheeping, rather than too busy to be present. I certainly have sympathy for people who find interacting with a big group on D1 tough, but that's not really the vibe I get from him either. Of the major wagons that I haven't ruled out, he's looking the most votable.

So they're saying he's not acting like he did when he was scum, which seems like a reason not to vote for him, but then she does vote for him. Also worth noting that this is the vote that tips the Robz wagon from the same size as the LL wagon to the biggest wagon.

Chickenwarlord jumps on next. Expresses a scumread on Robz. I'd like to hear more about that, since most of the people on the wagon seem to be just trying to get a lynch, any lynch.

UncleEurope immediately jumps off the wagon again. Wants to keep our options open.

Datswan votes for Robz because he doesn't want his vote to go to waste and he doesn't want to lynch Space.

Awaclus jumps on.

I don't want to lynch Space either and it's looking unlikely anything else is going to pick up steam so I jump on too.

Jimmmm puts Robz to L-1.

MiX expresses intent to hammer, in response to my reminder that Robz could be loved and if we wait until the last second we might not get a lynch.

Ashersky actually hammers.

tl;dr- I don't think the people at the end of this wagon are as scummy as the people who made it the wagon. Don't get me wrong, people at the end of the wagon could still be scum, the need to get a lynch is good cover. But I would bet there's scum somewhere in UoS, Space, chicken, and maybe DatSwan. Those were the people who had the opportunity, realistically, to steer the lynch elsewhere.

I'm a little suspicious of Didds now. Her explanation for voting Robz doesn't make much sense on the surface. Here:

vote: Robz

I am committeed to a lynch.  I am willing to vote for LL, Robz, or Asher.  I won't vote for Jimmmm today.

Like, if you're committed to a lynch, why not stay on LaLight at that point? Why leave a viable wagon for one with one other person on it.

Also Uncle Europe was on and off and on and off the wagon like a lot, so make what you will of that.

Hopefully this is helpful to somebody.

[MiX]

Hi EFHW, happy to play with you, as long as you don't imply that I'm a good lynch without voting over and over like last time 

By the way, the wagon on LL was due to his non-activity, which obviously doesn't apply anymore, so don't worry about it.

PPE 1: didn't read it all but I agree with didds being suspicious, her vote was reeeeally weird

[MiX]

Space [...] she

Uhoh. Quick, ninja edit! Oh you can't.

That Space part is actually really weird and I want an explanation. In fact, that's good enough to

Vote: Space

Am I going too fast? Mobile, haven't done any VCA yet

[Glooble]

Space [...] she

Uhoh. Quick, ninja edit! Oh you can't.

Sorry Space.

[SpaceAnemone]

Space votes Robz next, after posting a reads list. I'm gonna quote part of it because I found it a little weird:

Robz888 -- Actually, his inactivity here doesn't feel totally like it did in RMM51. Here he seems to be reading and sheeping, rather than too busy to be present. I certainly have sympathy for people who find interacting with a big group on D1 tough, but that's not really the vibe I get from him either. Of the major wagons that I haven't ruled out, he's looking the most votable.

So they're saying he's not acting like he did when he was scum, which seems like a reason not to vote for him, but then she does vote for him. Also worth noting that this is the vote that tips the Robz wagon from the same size as the LL wagon to the biggest wagon.

I already addressed this before the end of D1 when faust was confused about my post:

Robz888 -- Actually, his inactivity here doesn't feel totally like it did in RMM51. Here he seems to be reading and sheeping, rather than too busy to be present. I certainly have sympathy for people who find interacting with a big group on D1 tough, but that's not really the vibe I get from him either. Of the major wagons that I haven't ruled out, he's looking the most votable.

I really don't like this trying to create a scumread out of nothing. Robz is a lurker lynch, that's fine, but I don't think there is much of anything to scumread, and it reads like fake justification. I don't suppose we could get a Space wagon?

I was not really trying to present a sudden scumread on Robz at all. I explicitly said that I feel he's not playing like RMM51 (where he was scum).. I just don't think that's enough of a justification for not voting for him, given that I needed to move for consolidation. I also said (in the Glooble and e parts of my reread that you haven't quoted above) that I agree with a bunch of stuff e's said on Robz.

If you want to present a better case on someone then I'm here till deadline and willing to move if there's a stronger justification than what I've seen so far. That goes for cases on people other than on me.. I'm still not sure self-voting is ever a good thing for town.

Recall that I'd already said I wasn't willing to vote for LL. He'd had good reason for his absences (flat-moving), and also he'd also engaged with the community stuff, which I really appreciated from him, so I didn't want to see him gone from the game.

That said, bye LL :-(

Welcome, EFHW :-)

[WestCoastDidds]

didn't read it all but I agree with didds being suspicious, her vote was reeeeally weird

Not weird, just not good. Pretty much all of my choices were related low inactivity, and were obvi wrong. Robz should have claimed, there was plenty of time for us to find a better lynch had he didn’t so. But I will fully admit that I was just trying to be helpful. I left LL when enough folks said it wasn’t fair to lynch him with no internet access, etc, so while I’m on Robz early it’s because he seemed viable based on the talk even if it wants yet about votes. And I wasn’t moving to Jimmm.

Glooble, thanks for the work.

Vote: Eddie because that jumping around is crazy more strange than not.

LL, you’ll be missed. Hey, EFHW! Thanks for joining.

[WestCoastDidds]

Low activity, rather. Or inactivity. But not low inactivity.

[SpaceAnemone]

Space [...] she

Uhoh. Quick, ninja edit! Oh you can't.

Sorry Space.

No worries! I'm okay with "she/her" as a pronoun as long as people don't start calling me "girl" or "lady" or something.

What I strongly object to is the "default he" assumption that masculine is "normal" and anything else requires explanation/justification.

[MiX]

Space votes Robz next, after posting a reads list. I'm gonna quote part of it because I found it a little weird:

Robz888 -- Actually, his inactivity here doesn't feel totally like it did in RMM51. Here he seems to be reading and sheeping, rather than too busy to be present. I certainly have sympathy for people who find interacting with a big group on D1 tough, but that's not really the vibe I get from him either. Of the major wagons that I haven't ruled out, he's looking the most votable.

So they're saying he's not acting like he did when he was scum, which seems like a reason not to vote for him, but then she does vote for him. Also worth noting that this is the vote that tips the Robz wagon from the same size as the LL wagon to the biggest wagon.

I already addressed this before the end of D1 when faust was confused about my post:

"I also said (in the Glooble and e parts of my reread that you haven't quoted above) that I agree with a bunch of stuff e's said on Robz." - Space

Okay, okay.

I think I found a contradiction: look at Space's readlist, specifically the Glooble part. They say this:

"His e reread post makes a good point about Robz's recent meta"

Now...look at Glooble's e reread post...all I could find about Robz is:

"No he's not, he played exactly like this day one in Ancillary Mafia and he was scum." (talking about Robz)

Now, Ancillary mafia is RMM51, right? Which means Glooble's scumread on Robz - and, thus, everything about Robz in his e reread post - is about Robz playing like RMM51. But then Space goes:

"Actually, his inactivity here doesn't feel totally like it did in RMM51"

So clearly Glooble's part isn't part of her scumread on Robz, because all they say about Robz is how they agree with Glooble, but then they say the opposite in Robz' part...

So let's go to e's part of Space's reread: the important section is (apart from Space saying Robz looks like RMM51 again):

"I seem to agree with him more than usual, which was not what I expected going into my re-read."

So, you can argue that this implies that Space agrees with e's scumread on Robz. But it's far from explicit, especially when Space unsaid what they had agreed with twice in Robz' part (aka, they agreed with both Glooble and e about Robz playing like RMM51 but then they took it back); it's reasonable to assume Space didn't agree with the rest of e's case after rereading Robz, right? But then:

"I certainly have sympathy for people who find interacting with a big group on D1 tough, but that's not really the vibe I get from him either"

And this, this right here, is Space's case on Robz. Which is not at all what they told faust, but it's really the only thing you can take away from this post after the analysis I did.

Thus Space's reasoning for voting actually doesn't make sense, because they never explicitly said they agreed with e's case, instead they compared this game to RMM51, came to a conclusion and voted the other way.

TL;DR: Space's initial vote and their explanation have shady, unclear reasoning. What does this mean? No idea. But it feels like a cheap way to sheep e using a lot of words, so it's scummy.

@Space, how do you respond to this? Oh, and yes, I know it's confusing...I'll get quotes if people ask for it, on mobile ATM

[Uncleeurope]

As I said previously, I always jump around a lot as town and then get called scum for doing so. I refuse to accept inevitabilities and think it is much more informative if people treat days as if multiple options exist rather than it being an inevitability that someone will be lynched. Treating things as if they are inevitable is a strong play for scum to mislynch without fear.

On to today, Space is suspicious, WCD, raerae, and LL are eyebrow raisers for me.

Vote: Space

[MiX]

As I said previously, I always jump around a lot as town and then get called scum for doing so. I refuse to accept inevitabilities and think it is much more informative if people treat days as if multiple options exist rather than it being an inevitability that someone will be lynched. Treating things as if they are inevitable is a strong play for scum to mislynch without fear.

On to today, Space is suspicious, WCD, raerae, and LL are eyebrow raisers for me.

Vote: Space

What's your case on LL? I believe everything that was scummy about them fits with not being active enough to even play...like the read list, makes perfect sense when you consider than LL didn't read very closely and probably didn't have a lot of time to think about things.

The rest are fine, but I have a feeling e needs to be there, just because of how he NEVER moved from Robz, ever ever ever, even when LL and Space wagons were being viable...

Also, we can lynch you now! I think you became much townier near the end of the day, so I don't want to kill you...yet.

[SpaceAnemone]

@MiX, my post might make more sense if you read it as several spaced-out chronological re-reads, because that's the way I wrote it. I did all the separate re-reads (which took a while; I'm a really slow reader), then added the vote, then went back and put a sentence at the top to help the rest of the thread make sense of it, and then the last thing to be added was the PPE.

Anyway, first I re-read Glooble, which reminded me that e had said something I agreed with, because Glooble had done an e re-read post earlier.

Then I re-read e, and found that my sense of the game agreed with what he was saying, including that I thought Robz's absence was quite similar to scum!Robz being very absent from the start of RMM51.

Only then did I re-read Robz, and kind of disagree with myself, hence the "Actually..." part.

The Robz re-read didn't give me anything to make me think he was town, and e, with whom I agreed on a bunch of stuff, was pretty sure he was scum, so I don't think he was a bad selection from my personal lynchpool given the information I had around at the time. Obviously not the best lynch in retrospect, so apologies for my part in the wagon.

Ah.. I have to take off for a few hours right now. Back later if there are any more questions on it!