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Author Topic: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (GAME OVER, Maquis win!)  (Read 377944 times)

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Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (Day 1)
« Reply #800 on: March 01, 2019, 06:54:30 pm »

So, LaLight has not been very active at all.  That means

1) They are scum and just uncomfortable and slightly meh at being scum so many times recently
2) They are town and just busy and finding a hard time to get into the game like they said

I think that throwing LaLight in category 1 is basically lazy and that they can be super helpful to keep around later in the day.  That being said, nothing really stood out as "LaLight is town!" or "LaLight is scum!"

Just kind of LaLight is....not really around.

I agree with all of this e.  Is it any different for Robz?

yes.  Robz has a couple things that I find scummy.
1) His self-aware meta post
2) I don't really like his stance on faust here (basically pre-arguing that if faust isn't NKed he must be scum):
I am just never going to support a faust lynch on Day 1, unless I'm overwhelmingly certain he is scum, which is an unlikely position for me to be in. The reason is his reads are significantly better than the average town player, which means he's worth preserving more than almost anyone else. Also, scum know this, and often shoot him at their first chance. Lets not do scums' job for them.

Honestly I would probably support no lynch over a faust lynch, even though I hate no lynching on Day 1.
3. His "useful" vote one me. Just to wagon and lynch someone as helpful town.  And then re-emphasized that is vote is all about utility and getting a lynch (as evidenced again by his convenient move to LaLight)
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Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (Day 1)
« Reply #801 on: March 01, 2019, 06:54:55 pm »

vote: LL

What do you have to say now that there's a bunch of people trying to lynch you? Can you explain how you've been pro-town D1, for example?

A lot of people are always trying to lynch me, so nothing new there.

I don’t know that I’m screaming look at me I’m town, but I am checking in and willing to move my vote to get any lynch, which is the most towny thing you can do at the moment because it’s going to be damn hard to get a lynch and deadline is looming.
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Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (Day 1)
« Reply #802 on: March 01, 2019, 06:55:34 pm »

vote: LL

What do you have to say now that there's a bunch of people trying to lynch you? Can you explain how you've been pro-town D1, for example?

And by a bunch he really just means one really loud e that is making your wagon sound a lot larger than it is. 

Well, there's 2, then ., then 7, then 1, then 8, then 2, then 8... But I remember others talking about it, right?

As for your LL reread...well, clearly he's not active. But I really don't see an attempt at reversing that...Space did it, for example. LaLight's attempt to do so was a botched attempt to make a reads list which just has a bunch of nulls...something I expected if it was early in the day, but it wasn't. There were enough posts to talk about each person and at least say what he thought about them...we were left with barely any information about LL's thoughts and/or thought process, and that for me screams "eh, I'm not active anyway, I have an excuse to not do much this day, it's D1 anyway, 18 players how likely is it for me to get lynched", which is pretty scummy.

PPE too many, why Robz and not Jimmmmmmm? At least Jimmmmmmm has that weird comment that faust pointed out, Robz has nothing. And didn't we establish that that was part of his meta, both as town and scum? At least that's what I remember...

I'll copy faust and say that Robz votes are the laziest of them all, there's nothing on him. Nothing. Unless I missed something????? I still haven't heard e's reasons to vote for Robz!
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Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (Day 1)
« Reply #803 on: March 01, 2019, 06:56:58 pm »

So, LaLight has not been very active at all.  That means

1) They are scum and just uncomfortable and slightly meh at being scum so many times recently
2) They are town and just busy and finding a hard time to get into the game like they said

I think that throwing LaLight in category 1 is basically lazy and that they can be super helpful to keep around later in the day.  That being said, nothing really stood out as "LaLight is town!" or "LaLight is scum!"

Just kind of LaLight is....not really around.

I agree with all of this e.  Is it any different for Robz?

yes.  Robz has a couple things that I find scummy.
1) His self-aware meta post
2) I don't really like his stance on faust here (basically pre-arguing that if faust isn't NKed he must be scum):
I am just never going to support a faust lynch on Day 1, unless I'm overwhelmingly certain he is scum, which is an unlikely position for me to be in. The reason is his reads are significantly better than the average town player, which means he's worth preserving more than almost anyone else. Also, scum know this, and often shoot him at their first chance. Lets not do scums' job for them.

Honestly I would probably support no lynch over a faust lynch, even though I hate no lynching on Day 1.
3. His "useful" vote one me. Just to wagon and lynch someone as helpful town.  And then re-emphasized that is vote is all about utility and getting a lynch (as evidenced again by his convenient move to LaLight)

This is always always always my stance on Faust though.
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Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (Day 1)
« Reply #804 on: March 01, 2019, 06:57:56 pm »

As for your LL reread...well, clearly he's not active. But I really don't see an attempt at reversing that...Space did it, for example. LaLight's attempt to do so was a botched attempt to make a reads list which just has a bunch of nulls...something I expected if it was early in the day, but it wasn't.

yeah, a "botched reads list" or just town that doesn't know who scum is in a large game?  I will go for the second narrative.
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Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (Day 1)
« Reply #805 on: March 01, 2019, 07:02:10 pm »

Vote: Robz

I dunno, people. My vote is still fluid, just trying some stuff out.
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Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (Day 1)
« Reply #806 on: March 01, 2019, 07:04:51 pm »

So, LaLight has not been very active at all.  That means

1) They are scum and just uncomfortable and slightly meh at being scum so many times recently
2) They are town and just busy and finding a hard time to get into the game like they said

I think that throwing LaLight in category 1 is basically lazy and that they can be super helpful to keep around later in the day.  That being said, nothing really stood out as "LaLight is town!" or "LaLight is scum!"

Just kind of LaLight is....not really around.

I agree with all of this e.  Is it any different for Robz?

yes.  Robz has a couple things that I find scummy.
1) His self-aware meta post
2) I don't really like his stance on faust here (basically pre-arguing that if faust isn't NKed he must be scum):
I am just never going to support a faust lynch on Day 1, unless I'm overwhelmingly certain he is scum, which is an unlikely position for me to be in. The reason is his reads are significantly better than the average town player, which means he's worth preserving more than almost anyone else. Also, scum know this, and often shoot him at their first chance. Lets not do scums' job for them.

Honestly I would probably support no lynch over a faust lynch, even though I hate no lynching on Day 1.
3. His "useful" vote one me. Just to wagon and lynch someone as helpful town.  And then re-emphasized that is vote is all about utility and getting a lynch (as evidenced again by his convenient move to LaLight)

This is always always always my stance on Faust though.

Robz is right, I remember these exact words in...what was your last game, Robz? That one. And he was town. So...that point's useless.

The others are okaaaaay, I just thought that was also part of his town meta. Didn't we talk about how Robz always plays to his meta and how he's terrible D1 and how he doesn't want to change it ever and mcmc was a bit mad that it was the case and didn't like how town let it slide...okay this is getting out of hand, but isn't this also in line with his town meta?

On the other hand, LL's play is definitly not town!LL, in fact it doesn't even seem like scum!LL, but he did change metas starting in M121, which is how he got scumread there, so maybe this is his new scum meta? When not very active, post read lists without a lot of information so people get off his back?

Whoever are the people pushing for a Jimmmmm lynch, please make a case like e did, it really helps, now I can actually see a Robz lynch.

Hey MiX, since you like my enigmatic questions so much, why do you think Uncleeurope and I were both more interested in e's LaLight read than his Robz read?

Because...no I have no idea. Is it something e said earlier in the day? Would have to reread...


See you all in 10 hours or so, please don't hammer? Deadline's in 13 hours, right? We have time :P
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Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (Day 1)
« Reply #807 on: March 01, 2019, 07:07:19 pm »

So, LaLight has not been very active at all.  That means

1) They are scum and just uncomfortable and slightly meh at being scum so many times recently
2) They are town and just busy and finding a hard time to get into the game like they said

I think that throwing LaLight in category 1 is basically lazy and that they can be super helpful to keep around later in the day.  That being said, nothing really stood out as "LaLight is town!" or "LaLight is scum!"

Just kind of LaLight is....not really around.

I agree with all of this e.  Is it any different for Robz?

yes.  Robz has a couple things that I find scummy.
1) His self-aware meta post
2) I don't really like his stance on faust here (basically pre-arguing that if faust isn't NKed he must be scum):
I am just never going to support a faust lynch on Day 1, unless I'm overwhelmingly certain he is scum, which is an unlikely position for me to be in. The reason is his reads are significantly better than the average town player, which means he's worth preserving more than almost anyone else. Also, scum know this, and often shoot him at their first chance. Lets not do scums' job for them.

Honestly I would probably support no lynch over a faust lynch, even though I hate no lynching on Day 1.
3. His "useful" vote one me. Just to wagon and lynch someone as helpful town.  And then re-emphasized that is vote is all about utility and getting a lynch (as evidenced again by his convenient move to LaLight)

This is always always always my stance on Faust though.

Yeah, well, it's D1 and you have to make a case. Let's see how it works overnight then I will move/stay put tomorrow as required
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Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (Day 1)
« Reply #808 on: March 01, 2019, 07:08:55 pm »

vote: LL

What do you have to say now that there's a bunch of people trying to lynch you? Can you explain how you've been pro-town D1, for example?

And by a bunch he really just means one really loud e that is making your wagon sound a lot larger than it is. 

Well, there's 2, then ., then 7, then 1, then 8, then 2, then 8... But I remember others talking about it, right?

As for your LL reread...well, clearly he's not active. But I really don't see an attempt at reversing that...Space did it, for example. LaLight's attempt to do so was a botched attempt to make a reads list which just has a bunch of nulls...something I expected if it was early in the day, but it wasn't. There were enough posts to talk about each person and at least say what he thought about them...we were left with barely any information about LL's thoughts and/or thought process, and that for me screams "eh, I'm not active anyway, I have an excuse to not do much this day, it's D1 anyway, 18 players how likely is it for me to get lynched", which is pretty scummy.

PPE too many, why Robz and not Jimmmmmmm? At least Jimmmmmmm has that weird comment that faust pointed out, Robz has nothing. And didn't we establish that that was part of his meta, both as town and scum? At least that's what I remember...

I'll copy faust and say that Robz votes are the laziest of them all, there's nothing on him. Nothing. Unless I missed something????? I still haven't heard e's reasons to vote for Robz!

Then why is he on your "would lynch" list???  Your reads are EVERYWHERE.  I'm inherently mistrustful of being on any lynch with you because you just keep jumping to the one gaining the most steam.  Frankly, it makes me what to vote for whoever you DON'T want to vote for.


Yes: everyone that isn't on my read list. So I'll vote for LL, Jimmmmmm, Robz, e in that order...ah and Space. And then you, if people really want to... That's all. It's a lot of people, isn't it? But I prefer a flip to nothing here, at least we should try...
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Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (Day 1)
« Reply #809 on: March 01, 2019, 07:10:23 pm »

So, LL is at 4 votes now, Robz is at 4...everyone else with votes has 1 or 2.

Good night Europeans!  See you about an hour before deadline...
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Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (Day 1)
« Reply #810 on: March 01, 2019, 07:12:29 pm »

Hey MiX, since you like my enigmatic questions so much, why do you think Uncleeurope and I were both more interested in e's LaLight read than his Robz read?

Because...no I have no idea. Is it something e said earlier in the day? Would have to reread...

Because LaLight is e's biggest counterwagon.
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Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (Day 1)
« Reply #811 on: March 01, 2019, 07:12:55 pm »

Errrr, I guess e was a counterwagon to LaLight at the time, whatever, you get the drift.
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Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (Day 1)
« Reply #812 on: March 01, 2019, 07:13:27 pm »

Okay, that partner read I had is screaming in my ears. I am becoming more curious about a Robz lynch.

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Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (Day 1)
« Reply #813 on: March 01, 2019, 07:32:45 pm »

I’m caught up. I take back the plan comment, clearly not after all the continued discussion. If it had just disappeared poof style it would have seemed not genuine.

Shraeye is silly but not scummy, even though his vote on me is pointless and misguided. The ferengi thing wasn’t a plan so much as thought based on a misread.

I think raerae is a good day one lynch today — she’s ensured her only memorable interactions are with one (towny) player and hasn’t added any content otherwise.

vote: raerae anyone?

So how does that makes me an informative lynch for town?  You're proposing a lynch of somebody who's few interactions are with somebody you have a townread on.  That seems exceedingly unhelpful to town.

Vote: ash

I think this was pointed out, but I never claimed your lynch would be informative. I said it was a good lynch. You later said the only good lynch is an informative one (which I assume is hyperbole), which someone quickly rebutted.

And to answer an earlier question, it’s obviously shraeye that you tied yourself to.
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Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (Day 1)
« Reply #814 on: March 01, 2019, 07:35:15 pm »

vote: LL

What do you have to say now that there's a bunch of people trying to lynch you? Can you explain how you've been pro-town D1, for example?

Robz said it better, but basically Robz doesn’t have to care that a bunch of people may want to lynch him. That’s his normal state of being, and it very rarely matters this early in a game. His non-reaction is completely normal, meaning there is no alignment indication to be drawn from it.
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Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (Day 1)
« Reply #815 on: March 01, 2019, 07:39:19 pm »

I feel like Robz, LL, Jimm, and Ashes have all been similarly low level players and we wouldn't miss any of them at this point.  Any of them could be awesome later.  In fact, all of them would likely be awesome later. Jimmmm is/was mostly in trouble for sticking up for me, so I am not gonna vote for him today.  I am okay if all of you do, though.

Could you clarify what you mean by “low level” players?  I know I took a long break, so I can’t be sure what happened during that time, but even removing myself from that list to shave off bias, none of those players make a list of low level players were I to ever make one. They are all well-established, strong players who I think are well-liked and well-respected.
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Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (Day 1)
« Reply #816 on: March 01, 2019, 07:44:50 pm »

I feel like Robz, LL, Jimm, and Ashes have all been similarly low level players and we wouldn't miss any of them at this point.  Any of them could be awesome later.  In fact, all of them would likely be awesome later. Jimmmm is/was mostly in trouble for sticking up for me, so I am not gonna vote for him today.  I am okay if all of you do, though.

Could you clarify what you mean by “low level” players?  I know I took a long break, so I can’t be sure what happened during that time, but even removing myself from that list to shave off bias, none of those players make a list of low level players were I to ever make one. They are all well-established, strong players who I think are well-liked and well-respected.

Low activity level in this game
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Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (Day 1)
« Reply #817 on: March 01, 2019, 07:53:33 pm »

Gotcha. Makes more sense.
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Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (Day 1)
« Reply #818 on: March 01, 2019, 08:01:10 pm »

Alright....I am gonna go make dinner and participate in life and stuff.  I'll check back in a few hours.

I hope that Joth and Glooble are having so much fun celebrating a new year of awesome.

Didds count 1.3

LaLight (4): MiX, Shraeye, Glooble, Robz888
Robz888 (4): 2.71828....., WestCoastDidds, UmbrageofSnow, Uncleeurope
Jimmmmm (2): faust, raerae
raerae (2): ashersky, mcmcsalot
2.71828..... (2): LaLight, , Awaclus
shraeye (1): Jimmmmm
MiX (1): SpaceAnemone
chickenwarlord (1): DatSwan

No Lynch (1): chickenwarlord
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Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (Day 1)
« Reply #819 on: March 01, 2019, 08:36:29 pm »

I am going to be able to periodically check in for the rest of the night, I’m on eastern time. I will not be around to defend myself in the run up to deadline.
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Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (Day 1)
« Reply #820 on: March 01, 2019, 08:37:00 pm »

If I have to move my vote i would like to know sooner rather than later. I really wish everyone would pick a main wagon.
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Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (Day 1)
« Reply #821 on: March 01, 2019, 09:22:59 pm »

I've got my automatic vote counter working now, and agree with WCD's count

I also agree with the currently-edited state of all the mod counts except 1.1, which counted the number of "Not Voting" players incorrectly. (There are 10, but the count beside "Not Voting" says 9).
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Town games: M84(L), M85(W), M86(L), M87(W), M88(L), M90(L), M92(W), M94(L), M97(L), M99(W), M100(L), M104(W), M107(W), M110(L), M112(L), RMM37(L), RMM40(D), RMM41(L), RMM43(L), RMM47(W), ZM23(W).
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Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (Day 1)
« Reply #822 on: March 01, 2019, 09:25:37 pm »

I've got my automatic vote counter working now, and agree with WCD's count

I also agree with the currently-edited state of all the mod counts except 1.1, which counted the number of "Not Voting" players incorrectly. (There are 10, but the count beside "Not Voting" says 9).

Space, move your vote to someone who is actually getting lynched maybe.
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Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (Day 1)
« Reply #823 on: March 01, 2019, 09:28:46 pm »

I've also done re-reads of the people on the "would vote for" list I posted earlier. I think e and Uncleeurope have been promoted to "not really interested in lynching". I'm really sleepy at this point, and this is way too late for me to be awake.

Jimmmmm -- really not much to go on. I like WCD's reason for leaving him off the table at the moment. I don't see anything that makes him a scumread as opposed to a nullread at this stage, though he's also pretty absent overall. Request prod on Jimmmmm.

DatSwan -- He starts out quite reasonable. I guess it's possible that his Gul setup discussion could have been faked to try to look like he was less aware of the setup than he is if he's scum and has thought about it hard. OTOH, he then discusses scum's best choices of NK with faust, and I think makes valid points, so it's clear he's done at least some setup-specific analysis. Actually, Ash made the point first, and Swan goes on to quote him. Back to that being null, I guess. I definitely disagree with his stance on the MiX issue, which seems to be asking the thread to willfully ignore that several players have been not okay with a thing that happened in-thread to the extent that they've voluntarily taken themselves away from the game for a period. I don't think any of that is alignment indicative for Swan, but unlike him, I care more about trying to ensure that the community stays as friendly and as inclusive as it has been than I do about the deadline.

Glooble -- Happy Birthday! (Also Happy Birthday Mod!) Anyway, Glooble has done way more posting than I remembered. There's a bunch of setup stuff that seems quite switched on, and then a bunch of prior probabilities of hitting scum for different scenarios. I did actually check his numbers when he posted that.. can't remember if I ever mentioned that in-thread. Not that I think scum!Glooble would try to mislead the thread with dodgy division even if there had been errors. His e reread post makes a good point about Robz's recent meta. I have a townish read on him early. Some of his later insistences about D1 lynches being random and pushing people being scummy are kind of block statements that gloss over a lot of nuance, but I don't think being not-quite-right with them is enough of a thing to constitute a scumread.

MiX -- I've made my case already, so no need to reread here.

2.71828..... -- I seem to agree with him more than usual, which was not what I expected going into my re-read. I think he's a player I often scumread, especially in games where he's loud and tries to control the game. But I agree with Robz being very much like RMM51, and on not wanting to have LL on the table for today.

Robz888 -- Actually, his inactivity here doesn't feel totally like it did in RMM51. Here he seems to be reading and sheeping, rather than too busy to be present. I certainly have sympathy for people who find interacting with a big group on D1 tough, but that's not really the vibe I get from him either. Of the major wagons that I haven't ruled out, he's looking the most votable.

Awaclus -- At least as scummy as he was in RMM51. Which was more "Awaclusian" than "scummy" per se. He's not doing much to help us scum-hunt, is he?

Uncleeurope -- Oh yeah, he claimed Gul Dukat, so let's not lynch him today.

Vote: Robz

PPE 1: Yup, I was already busy doing that :-)
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WestCoastDidds

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Re: RMM52: Deep Space Nine Mafia Redux (Day 1)
« Reply #824 on: March 01, 2019, 09:49:52 pm »

Okay, party people...its time for me to get off the computer and see about the sleeping and whatnot. This is where we are now:

Didds count 1.4

LaLight (4): MiX, Shraeye, Glooble, Robz888
Robz888 (5): 2.71828....., WestCoastDidds, UmbrageofSnow, Uncleeurope, SpaceAnemone
Jimmmmm (2): faust, raerae
raerae (2): ashersky, mcmcsalot
2.71828..... (2): LaLight, Awaclus
shraeye (1): Jimmmmm
chickenwarlord (1): DatSwan

No Lynch (1): chickenwarlord

Someone else feel free to take over the counting until Space is awake or Joth sobers up. : )

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classic Diddsian meddling
I never got to read what Didds said, but whatever she's saying, she's right.
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